A BIBLICAL EXAMINATION OF CALVINISM

[garee]

I think it depends on the heart of the individual. If some catholic concentrates on the basics of faith, creeds etc, he is saved. If he concentrates on idols, Mary, saints, pope and ceremonies, I am afraid he is not. But I will let God to judge this...its too complex.

The Catholics must base there what they call faith on necromancy. Just as the Jew like Rachel who hid the familiar spirit images called teraphims from her father. Or king Saul when God refused to commune with him in any manner. Same principle different image idols.

Today the Catholics have over 3500 and rising...what they call patron saint religious medals to put a face on the legion when it comes up picking up speed today with these image idols available on line .

The Catholics do not have a faith without the use of idols. They have creeds that hide the use of idols .

 

[Hevosmies]

No my friend, the train wreck of a translation is that which was written when they spoketh liketh this.

So you are mocking the KJV bible here? OK
The Bible that was used during the great revivals.

I honestly struggled to even notice at first that you were quoting the bible, WHAT translation was that bro?

All of this is offtopic but I just want to say: Take a look at the greek text underlying alot of the new translations. Its the alexandrian text, the "most ancient" manuscripts codex VATICANUS and SINAITICUS which have tons of verses missing, and contradict each other. Gospel of Mark ends without the great commission and ends up with the disciples in fear. Acts 8:37 is taken out.
Here is what it says in the preface to the greek text (Novum Testamentum Graece") used to translate many of the MODERN bible translations:

"The text shared by these two editions was adopted internationally by Bible Societies, and following an agreement between the Vatican and the United Bible Societies it has served as the basis for new translations and for revisions made under their supervision. (Emphasis mine) This marks a significant step with regard to interconfessional relationships. It should naturally be understood that this text is a working text (in the sense of the century long Nestle Tradition): it is not to be considered as definitive, but as a stimulus to further efforts toward defining and verifying the text of the New Testament. For many reasons, however, the present edition has not been deemed an appropriate occasion for introducing textual changes.”

Did you catch that? Made under the supervision of the VATICAN. The plot thickens where they admit that the text isnt even ready, YET. They keep cranking out new ones to get it just right.
These guys will get on stage and LIE to you and say "The word of God says!" but they dont even believe its the word of God. They are hirelings. They believe its got errors here and there and we're still working on it and this verse is probably added and that word is not there and.. yeah. Confusion.

The thing about the alexandrian text, its MOSTLY correct, but they have left many verses/words out, thats for sure. Try to stick with one thats based on TR or MT. If you speak english the KJV is the best, by far.

sorry to post off-topic OP and the rest. I wont post on this anymore here, maybe i'll make my own thread about this! Just thought this should be brougth to people's attention!

 

[Sackcloth-N-Ashes]

So you are mocking the KJV bible here? OK
The Bible that was used during the great revivals. Compared to how things are now with these tons of new versions that dont even resemble what the bible says! Thought-for-thought is too much to say!

The have to make the new ones different to get money off of them. There needs to be a certain amount of difference so they switch word orders around and things.

I honestly struggled to even notice at first that you were quoting the bible, WHAT translation was that bro?

All of this is offtopic but I just want to say: Take a look at the greek text underlying alot of the new translations. Its the alexandrian text, the "most ancient" manuscripts codex VATICANUS and SINAITICUS which have tons of verses missing, and contradict each other. Gospel of Mark ends without the great commission and ends up with the disciples in fear. Acts 8:37 is taken out.
Here is what it says in the preface to the greek text (Novum Testamentum Graece") used to translate many of the MODERN bible translations:

"The text shared by these two editions was adopted internationally by Bible Societies, and following an agreement between the Vatican and the United Bible Societies it has served as the basis for new translations and for revisions made under their supervision. (Emphasis mine) This marks a significant step with regard to interconfessional relationships. It should naturally be understood that this text is a working text (in the sense of the century long Nestle Tradition): it is not to be considered as definitive, but as a stimulus to further efforts toward defining and verifying the text of the New Testament. For many reasons, however, the present edition has not been deemed an appropriate occasion for introducing textual changes.”

Did you catch that? Made under the supervision of the VATICAN. The plot thickens where they admit that the text isnt even ready, YET. They keep cranking out new ones to get it just right.
These guys will get on stage and LIE to you and say "The word of God says!" but they dont even believe its the word of God. They are hirelings. They believe its got errors here and there and we're still working on it and this verse is probably added and that word is not there and.. yeah. Confusion.

Be careful with these translations based on the alexandrian text, its MOSTLY correct, but they have left verses/words out, thats for sure. Try to stick with one thats based on TR or MT. If you speak english the KJV is the best, by far.

sorry to post off-topic OP and the rest. I wont post on this anymore here, maybe i'll make my own thread about this! Just thought this should be brougth to people's attention!

I am not anti-King James Bible, but an anti-King James Bible only. God has used it to bring many into His kingdom. But others versions do that as well, my friend.

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

I am not anti-King James Bible, but an anti-King James Bible only. God has used it to bring many into His kingdom. But others versions do that as well, my friend.

That is quite the dishonest response . . . the King James Bible is the one with the 'spoketh liketh' verbiage which you referred to as a 'train wreck of a translation' -- you can't change what is written, unless you are willing to apologize to this message board for defaming their Bible. You are not King James-only, you are King James-never.

 

[preacher4truth]

Did you catch that? Made under the supervision of the VATICAN.

Erased most of the other drivel in your post. Have to mention the trained Catholic priest Desiderius Erasmus, from whence most of your King Jimmy came from. But, that's OK because KJVO cultism has double and triple standards.

Another interesting fact about KJVO's is they will mock Augustine for his "catholicism," but will embrace Erasmus in his.

 

[trofimus]

Because it is Christ alone who saves, not our practice of anything you mentioned in your former post, of which now you attempt to add sense to. You said formerly they're saved if they concentrate on the basics of faith and creeds. Actually you said this: "If some catholic concentrates on the basics of faith, creeds etc, he is saved."

That's totally false and falls right into their merit system. Many practice their faith and creeds, That does not equate to salvation.

Nothing in what I stated even asserted they aren't saved simply because they're Catholic. Don't even go there and attempt to put words in my mouth bro, it's uncool.

I'm going to leave it at that. I'm really surprised you're arguing this point.

If the basics of the faith and creeds I was talking about are the apostles creed and nicene creed, i.e. if their faith is mainly about these Christian basics and not so much about Mary, revelation of angels etc. , then they are saved. I do not accept that this is false. As I explained, by faith I mean the inner trust, not just intelectual knowledge.

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

Erased most of the other drivel in your post. Have to mention the trained Catholic priest Desiderius Erasmus, from whence most of your King Jimmy came from. But, that's OK because KJVO cultism has double and triple standards.

Another interesting fact about KJVO's is they will mock Augustine for his "catholicism," but will embrace Erasmus in his.

Erasmus was a Catholic in name only. He did not agree with anything out of Rome but if he went public with his views Rome would have shortened his life. God used Erasmus, and it would seem, protected him.

 

[preacher4truth]

That is quite the dishonest response . . . the King James Bible is the one with the 'spoketh liketh' verbiage which you referred to as a 'train wreck of a translation'

Worshiping Erasmus and King Jimmy now too? I thought it was Christ alone from whence salvation came? So which is it, King Jimmy adherence and Christ, or Christ alone?

-- you can't change what is written, unless you are willing to apologize to this message board for defaming their Bible.

No apology necessary. You, on the other hand need to man up and apologize.

You are not King James-only, you are King James-never.

Of course he's not KJVO, he already stated that. You really need to stop pounding your keyboard when you're mad.

 

[preacher4truth]

Erasmus was a Catholic in name only. He did not agree with anything out of Rome but if he went public with his views Rome would have shortened his life. God used Erasmus, and it would seem, protected him.

I said he was a trained Catholic Priest. He leaned toward reformed theological doctrine heavily, so, according to your "theology" he's burning in hell.

 

[preacher4truth]

If the basics of the faith and creeds I was talking about are the apostles creed and nicene creed, i.e. if their faith is mainly about these Christian basics and not so much about Mary, revelation of angels etc. , then they are saved. I do not accept that this is false. As I explained, by faith I mean the inner trust, not just intelectual knowledge.

Well, you certainly needed to clean up that mess in aisle #385. Thank you.

 

[trofimus]

Well, you certainly needed to clean up that mess in aisle #385. Thank you.

I think I will let it be. I know we both believe the same thing regarding this and if there is a misunderstanding, then its made by wrong wording or something like that which is very possible because of my English. Therefore I think there is no need to continue.

 

[fredoheaven]

Before I shaped you in the womb,
I knew all about you.
Before you saw the light of day,
I had holy plans for you:
A prophet to the nations—
that’s what I had in mind for you.”(Jeremiah 1:5)

God knew all about Jeremiah even before he was conceived. That does not negate the fact His people were chosen in Christ before the creation of the world.

Umm. you gave extra mile in saying isn't in the Bible. You should have understand the use of the colon before you interject your negation. The verse has nothing to do with salvation.

 

[trofimus]

Erasmus was a Catholic in name only. He did not agree with anything out of Rome but if he went public with his views Rome would have shortened his life. God used Erasmus, and it would seem, protected him.

Is this just a speculation as is common with you, or do you have some real evidence for this?

 

[fredoheaven]

Well, I use various versions such as the NASB, ESV, CSB, NIV. Anything that has to deal with election has to do with foreknowledge. God's election is based upon it, and foreknowledge is not just knowing beforehand, but is a verb, so it is also something God does.

I am one who advocates the federal headship of both Adams. The first Adam represented the whole human race. We were not there, but Adam represented us. When he fell, we also fell, being in Adam. The last Adam, Jesus Christ, represented His chosen people, His sheep. He lived a perfect, sinless life, died when He bore our sins at the cross, rose the third day for our justification.(Romans 4:25) The reason why Jesus came was to die a covenant death for His chosen people. Everything He did has been imputed unto us. We now stand in Him and God sees us through His Son. While He was walking on this earth, we were not there, but He represented us, all believers of all time.

God chose a people for His name sake, and gave them to His Son to redeem via the death, burial and resurrection(His sinless life is also in this). This was done from before the foundation of the world.

You use variations of version to fit your theology, but the fact remains the same. I'll try it the other way, as base on Ephesians 1:4 are you going to tell me foreknown or pre-selection?

Thanks.

 

[fredoheaven]

προγινώσκω,v (prog-in-oce-ko)
1) to have knowledge before hand 2) to foreknow 2a) of those whom God elected to salvation 3) to predestinate

Now, this is a verb, so it is something God does. God does not just merely possess foreknowledge, but He does foreknowledge. So, foreknowledge is not just something He has, but also does.

your source please, for me to validate...

thanks

 

[trofimus]

your source please, for me to validate...

thanks

"pro" means "before"
"ginoskein" means "to know, to recognize"

"proginoskein" means "to foreknow"

You can verify in any Greek lexicon on the web or on www.biblehub.com

 

[fredoheaven]

Well, I use various versions such as the NASB, ESV, CSB, NIV. Anything that has to deal with election has to do with foreknowledge. God's election is based upon it, and foreknowledge is not just knowing beforehand, but is a verb, so it is also something God does.

I am one who advocates the federal headship of both Adams. The first Adam represented the whole human race. We were not there, but Adam represented us. When he fell, we also fell, being in Adam. The last Adam, Jesus Christ, represented His chosen people, His sheep. He lived a perfect, sinless life, died when He bore our sins at the cross, rose the third day for our justification.(Romans 4:25) The reason why Jesus came was to die a covenant death for His chosen people. Everything He did has been imputed unto us. We now stand in Him and God sees us through His Son. While He was walking on this earth, we were not there, but He represented us, all believers of all time.

God chose a people for His name sake, and gave them to His Son to redeem via the death, burial and resurrection(His sinless life is also in this). This was done from before the foundation of the world.

you use Adam, "when he fell, we also fell" who is we? His chosen people? Are you trying to limit sin? Are you trying to limit God's action of salvation?

Thanks

 

[fredoheaven]

"pro" means "before"
"ginoskein" means "to know, to recognize"

"proginoskein" means "to foreknow"

You can verify in any Greek lexicon on the web or on www.biblehub.com

thanks, let me see...

 

[fredoheaven]

your source please, for me to validate...

thanks

your 2a does not included in the given Greek lexicon I found in biblehub...

 

[NayborBear]

Uh-huh. Wading through this post I take you didn't get your faith from God as gift then?

Where does it come from?

I suppose, one could "pigeon hole" this as: "Some things, are true!" "Whether one believes it, or not."

The "faith" of "the elect", was "gained/earned", from previous battles and wars engaged against "sons of darkness", and the attempted "overthrow", before any "elect" was ever born. These days? Or, during any time over the passing of this earth/heaven age. Before there was any "word", or "term" needed, in the "describing" of this particular "Fruit of the Spirit." Which is why there usually arises controversy, sometimes more? Sometimes less! In an "elects" striving in believing that which an "elect" "ALREADY KNOWS", IS TRUE!