The point that I am making is that the natural man according to 1 Cor 2:14 can not believe in spiritual things, but this is an attribute of those that God has put his Spirit within. When you think that believing, before you are born of the Spirit, is the cause of getting born of the Spirit, then it becomes a work of man to get born again of the Spirit, do you follow me?
Does God love all mankind and does He wish to save everyone
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"13 In whom YE ALSO trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise," Eph1:13
"9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." Rom8:9
Are you saying a person [saved/Christian] ALWAYS has had the Spirit? (even before hearing the gospel?)
"9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." Rom8:9
Are you saying a person [saved/Christian] ALWAYS has had the Spirit? (even before hearing the gospel?)
What you fail to see, and understand, is that there is a deliverance by grace, which is eternal, and not by the works of man, and there is a deliverance by the works of man, which is received while we live here on earth. You are using all of the salvation (deliverance) scriptures as pertaining to eternal deliverance, when in actuality, most of them are pertaining to deliverance we receive here on earth. That is why you have to omit some scriptures that you don't think harmonize with your beliefs Any time you find the action words, repent, accept, believe, etc. it is always having reference to disobedient children of God. Saved by grace requires no action responses from man.
Tell me your interpretation of 1 Cor 2:14. Then read Eph 2:1-5 and it will tell you how the natural man described in 1 Cor 2:14 becomes a spiritual man, regenerated (made alive, from being dead in sins), and born of the Spirit, without any response of his own. Those that God chose (Eph 1:4) before the foundation of the world are born into this world as dead alien sinners and some time between their natural birth and their natural death God regenerates them. It became necessary for God to chose some and make provision to rid them of their sins by his Son, so that he would have an elect people that would seek him and praise his name, because in Ps 53:2-3, He looked down from heaven (by his foreknowledge) on the children of men to see if there were any that would seek him, and found that they were altogether become filthy; there were none that did understand, that did seek God. There is none that doeth good, no, not one. Eph 1:13, When we are regenerated, while we were still dead in sins as the natural man (1 Cor 2:14) having no knowledge of the gospel, the Spirit began revealing some truths of the gospel, a little here and a little there, and that began to increase our faith and trust in the gospel. In verse 13 after we had been revealed some truths so that we trusted the gospel, we were sealed (an earnest or down payment) by the promise of the Holy Spirit. The sealing does not mean we were regenerated at that time, but were regenerated prior to being sealed. Because of the fact that as new born babes, we had a lack of knowledge about the gospel until the Spirit began revealing. I hope I did not confuse you with my lengthy explanation.
If Christ gave himself a ransom for all mankind, then all mankind will go to heaven, because in John 6:38 Jesus said that he would not lose any of those that he died for, but raise them up at the last day. That would leave the conclusion that he gave himself a ransom for "ALL" of God's elect. Not for all mankind.
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I see Ephesians 1-3 to be referring specifically to "the Church which is His body" (not to all other saints of all other time periods: not to OT saints, not to Trib saints, not to MK saints); Eph1:19,20-23 "when" He raised Him from the dead and set Him at His own right hand in the heavenlies/heavenly realms ...["wrought IN Christ"]
And I already explained how I see 1Cor2:14 and how the people in 3:1 (though "IN Christ" [saved/believers/Christians/saints]) could not have Paul speak unto them about such. Many Christians do not yet "understand" the 1Cor2:14 things.
Verse 9, though, is followed immediately by what is stated in v.10. They have been "revealed" (and subsequently recorded in Scripture, for the mature to come to know).
And I already explained how I see 1Cor2:14 and how the people in 3:1 (though "IN Christ" [saved/believers/Christians/saints]) could not have Paul speak unto them about such. Many Christians do not yet "understand" the 1Cor2:14 things.
Verse 9, though, is followed immediately by what is stated in v.10. They have been "revealed" (and subsequently recorded in Scripture, for the mature to come to know).
It was not God's purpose to eternally save all mankind. Ps 33:11, The counsel (purpose) of the Lord standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations Pro 19:21, There are many devices in a man's heart (that all mankind be saved), nevertheless the counsel of the Lord, that shall stand. If it is his counsel that all man be saved, then all men will be saved. Isaiah 46:10, Declaring the end from the beginning , and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure. Eph 1:11, Who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will.
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FGC, take a look at this article, the parts following this paragraph:
quoting:
"The Two Goats Of Leviticus 16
The "limited atonement" doctrine is built upon a premise that lacks understanding of the two views of the cross of Christ as regards His work, that is, propitiation and substitution. The types used on the day of atonement in Leviticus 16 are set aside in deference to a theory, a doctrine of men (be they good men or bad is not the point). On that memorable day, which occurred once a year in Israel's history, there were, among other similitudes two goats - one called the Lord's lot, and the other the people's. The goat of the Lord's lot was killed and its blood taken inside of the veil by the high priest, where he sprinkled the blood once upon the mercy seat and seven times on the desert sand before it. It was there above the mercy seat that God dwelt among the people, and as they were sinners He must needs have the evidence of death presented before Him - the blood was sprinkled there. This was propitiation - a satisfaction rendered to God whereby He could act in grace toward a sinful people. On the head of the other goat, the sins of the people were confessed by the high priest, and it was led into a land not inhabited, so that their sins were removed. This was substitution.
"In a sense, both goats are one in the matter of sin - the one being slain and its blood presented before God, and the other bearing the sins away to be remembered no more - for without the blood of the one goat there could be no bearing away of sins on the other. Let us notice the words of another: "
[more at link, below this paragraph, in the following, and more beyond these...]
Denial Of Substitution
[...]
Denial Of Propitiation
[...]
Denial Of A Ransom For All
http://biblecentre.org/content.php?mode=7&item=892 [more at link, but to save time start at "The Two Goats of Lev16" paragraph and following]
quoting:
"The Two Goats Of Leviticus 16
The "limited atonement" doctrine is built upon a premise that lacks understanding of the two views of the cross of Christ as regards His work, that is, propitiation and substitution. The types used on the day of atonement in Leviticus 16 are set aside in deference to a theory, a doctrine of men (be they good men or bad is not the point). On that memorable day, which occurred once a year in Israel's history, there were, among other similitudes two goats - one called the Lord's lot, and the other the people's. The goat of the Lord's lot was killed and its blood taken inside of the veil by the high priest, where he sprinkled the blood once upon the mercy seat and seven times on the desert sand before it. It was there above the mercy seat that God dwelt among the people, and as they were sinners He must needs have the evidence of death presented before Him - the blood was sprinkled there. This was propitiation - a satisfaction rendered to God whereby He could act in grace toward a sinful people. On the head of the other goat, the sins of the people were confessed by the high priest, and it was led into a land not inhabited, so that their sins were removed. This was substitution.
"In a sense, both goats are one in the matter of sin - the one being slain and its blood presented before God, and the other bearing the sins away to be remembered no more - for without the blood of the one goat there could be no bearing away of sins on the other. Let us notice the words of another: "
[more at link, below this paragraph, in the following, and more beyond these...]
Denial Of Substitution
[...]
Denial Of Propitiation
[...]
Denial Of A Ransom For All
http://biblecentre.org/content.php?mode=7&item=892 [more at link, but to save time start at "The Two Goats of Lev16" paragraph and following]
What Thayer's are you using sir? The New Thayer's Greek English Lexicon of the New Testament (copyright 1981) lists all of those Scriptures except I Cor. 4:9 under definition #5 of kosmos (world), page 357. Definition #5 is this: "the inhabitants of the world, the inhabitants of the earth, , men, the human race". He says nothing about "used of believers only".
Unless you can document Thayer's better, I think you need to admit your mistake.
I stand by what I said previously: John 3:16 means that God loved all of the world (the people in the world) and that is why He sent His Son.
Unless you can document Thayer's better, I think you need to admit your mistake.
I stand by what I said previously: John 3:16 means that God loved all of the world (the people in the world) and that is why He sent His Son.
Why are there Scriptures that some are going to hell? Because that is exactly what is going to happen - some are going to go to hell because they reject Christ and do not believe.
But you ignored my question by asking your own questions: Again - where is the Scripture that says "so Jesus did not die for all mankind, but only those that his Father gave him."????????????????????????
But you ignored my question by asking your own questions: Again - where is the Scripture that says "so Jesus did not die for all mankind, but only those that his Father gave him."????????????????????????
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Chester said: Which one says that God does not love all of mankind and does not want everyone to be saved? 
I am still whistling waiting for an answer . . . . to my question . . . . .
I will answer your questions once you are able to answer mine . . .
I am still whistling waiting for an answer . . . . to my question . . . . .I will answer your questions once you are able to answer mine . . .
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Yes, He did. For now anyway. Many people calls themselves Christian and are deceived by the god of this world to the point they cannot find the true way to God.
Including the 1.3 billion Roman Catholics that think they have God. God is not done with them yet. He has a plan in place written in the scriptures. Pray the scales fall from your eyes, and you find it.
Including the 1.3 billion Roman Catholics that think they have God. God is not done with them yet. He has a plan in place written in the scriptures. Pray the scales fall from your eyes, and you find it.
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Dan 4:35, And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou? Do you believe that what he said is true? That he does according to his will(and you say his will is that all mankind should be saved)among the inhabitants of the earth(is that not all mankind?) And you are saying that the inhabitants of earth can stay his hand because they reject him! Are they more powerful than God? Jesus did not die for all mankind, only those that God gave him. If he wants all mankind to be saved, and he accomplishes all his will, why are not all mankind among those that he gave to Jesus? It is a simple deduction. Isaiah 46:10, My counsel (purpose) shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure. Is it his purpose to save all mankind? Then why does he not do it? If it is his pleasure that all mankind be saved, then why does he not save them? You say it is because they reject him (stay his hand). He says that they can not stay his hand. The conclusion is that IT IS NOT GOD'S WILL TO SAVE ALL MANKIND.
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