Does God love all mankind and does He wish to save everyone
- Thread starter Slayer
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
You're right we still need to accept Jesus as our Lord and savior, the question I have is why do some accept and others reject Him. The Bible tells us that faith is a gift given by God to His elect, so when they hear the Gospel they respond by believing it and obeying it.
Those who are not the elect of God will never believe the Gospel, no matter how much evidence they see. There were many who saw the miracles of Jesus and they saw Him after He was raised from the dead and they still didn't believe. So the Bible tells us that only the elect of God will believe the Gospel, all the rest will go to the grave never believing.
So we must accept the fact that God chooses who will be saved and who will be lost, the Bible is very clear about it. Below are some Bible verses which prove that election and predestination are true.
John 6:37 ESV / 26 helpful votes
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
Ephesians 1:4-6 ESV / 25 helpful votes
Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.
2 Timothy 1:9 ESV / 23 helpful votes
Who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,
2 Thessalonians 2:13 ESV / 21 helpful votes
But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.
Acts 13:48 ESV / 17 helpful votes
And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.
1 Peter 1:2 ESV / 16 helpful votes
According to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.
2 Timothy 2:10 ESV / 16 helpful votes
Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
Romans 9:18 ESV / 15 helpful votes
So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
Romans 8:28-29 ESV / 15 helpful votes
And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
Romans 8:30 ESV / 14 helpful votes
And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
Romans 1:16 ESV / 14 helpful votes
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
John 15:16 ESV / 14 helpful votes
You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.
John 6:44 ESV / 13 helpful votes
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
2 Peter 3:9 ESV / 12 helpful votes
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
1 Peter 1:20 ESV / 12 helpful votes
He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you
Titus 1:1 ESV / 12 helpful votes
Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the sake of the faith of God's elect and their knowledge of the truth, which accords with godliness,
John 17:24 ESV / 12 helpful votes
Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world.
Luke 18:7 ESV / 12 helpful votes
And will not God give justice to his elect, who cry to him day and night? Will he delay long over them?
Mark 13:20 ESV / 12 helpful votes
And if the Lord had not cut short the days, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, whom he chose, he shortened the days.
Psalm 37:28 ESV / 12 helpful votes
For the Lord loves justice; he will not forsake his saints. They are preserved forever, but the children of the wicked shall be cut off.
James 1:18 ESV / 11 helpful votes
Of his own will he brought us forth by the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
2 Timothy 2:25 ESV / 11 helpful votes
Correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth,
Romans 8:29-30 ESV / 11 helpful votes
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
John 10:27-29 ESV / 11 helpful votes
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
John 5:40 ESV / 11 helpful votes
Yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.
John 5:21 ESV / 11 helpful votes
For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will.
John 1:13 ESV / 11 helpful votes
Who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
Job 23:13 ESV / 11 helpful votes
But he is unchangeable, and who can turn him back? What he desires, that he does.
Those who are not the elect of God will never believe the Gospel, no matter how much evidence they see. There were many who saw the miracles of Jesus and they saw Him after He was raised from the dead and they still didn't believe. So the Bible tells us that only the elect of God will believe the Gospel, all the rest will go to the grave never believing.
So we must accept the fact that God chooses who will be saved and who will be lost, the Bible is very clear about it. Below are some Bible verses which prove that election and predestination are true.
John 6:37 ESV / 26 helpful votes
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
Ephesians 1:4-6 ESV / 25 helpful votes
Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.
2 Timothy 1:9 ESV / 23 helpful votes
Who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,
2 Thessalonians 2:13 ESV / 21 helpful votes
But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.
Acts 13:48 ESV / 17 helpful votes
And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.
1 Peter 1:2 ESV / 16 helpful votes
According to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.
2 Timothy 2:10 ESV / 16 helpful votes
Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
Romans 9:18 ESV / 15 helpful votes
So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
Romans 8:28-29 ESV / 15 helpful votes
And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
Romans 8:30 ESV / 14 helpful votes
And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
Romans 1:16 ESV / 14 helpful votes
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
John 15:16 ESV / 14 helpful votes
You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.
John 6:44 ESV / 13 helpful votes
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
2 Peter 3:9 ESV / 12 helpful votes
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
1 Peter 1:20 ESV / 12 helpful votes
He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you
Titus 1:1 ESV / 12 helpful votes
Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the sake of the faith of God's elect and their knowledge of the truth, which accords with godliness,
John 17:24 ESV / 12 helpful votes
Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world.
Luke 18:7 ESV / 12 helpful votes
And will not God give justice to his elect, who cry to him day and night? Will he delay long over them?
Mark 13:20 ESV / 12 helpful votes
And if the Lord had not cut short the days, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, whom he chose, he shortened the days.
Psalm 37:28 ESV / 12 helpful votes
For the Lord loves justice; he will not forsake his saints. They are preserved forever, but the children of the wicked shall be cut off.
James 1:18 ESV / 11 helpful votes
Of his own will he brought us forth by the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
2 Timothy 2:25 ESV / 11 helpful votes
Correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth,
Romans 8:29-30 ESV / 11 helpful votes
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
John 10:27-29 ESV / 11 helpful votes
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
John 5:40 ESV / 11 helpful votes
Yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.
John 5:21 ESV / 11 helpful votes
For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will.
John 1:13 ESV / 11 helpful votes
Who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
Job 23:13 ESV / 11 helpful votes
But he is unchangeable, and who can turn him back? What he desires, that he does.
Well, you made an obvious logical fallacy and I think you realize it, so, I do not know if its worth to react, but lets do it:
We were talking about if every individual has the Holy Spirit and gospel preached in the amount needed for salvation.
While you quoted commands to preach to all and avoided the reality that millions of people died without hearing the gospel just because apostles did not reach them in time. For example Chinese died in the 2nd century without a gospel, in millions. They did not have the same conditions as you have in the USA of the 21st century. Just think a little.
Also, to prove that all individuals who ever lived had the same amount of the Holy Spirit to answer positively to gospel is something you cannot prove in any way.
We were talking about if every individual has the Holy Spirit and gospel preached in the amount needed for salvation.
While you quoted commands to preach to all and avoided the reality that millions of people died without hearing the gospel just because apostles did not reach them in time. For example Chinese died in the 2nd century without a gospel, in millions. They did not have the same conditions as you have in the USA of the 21st century. Just think a little.
Also, to prove that all individuals who ever lived had the same amount of the Holy Spirit to answer positively to gospel is something you cannot prove in any way.
-
1
- Show all
Only God knows the answer. All we can do is give the gospel message and pray it will be received. I have dealt with those who are very committed atheists and it's like talking to a brick wall. They poke fun of the concept of God. Science refutes big bang evolution but they turn a deaf ear to any scientific evidence proving the Bible as fact. Archaeological digs of Sodom and Jericho prove the miraculous events and they ignore it. The Bible states the carnal mind is enmity against God. That is the definition of an atheist. Only God can reach in and convert them.
My first cousin is highly educated scientist, he lectures at university and he is highly respected in the scientific community. He is a Roman Catholic, I shared the Gospel with Him and he had many problems with it. He doesn't get the concept of God torturing His Son in order to forgive us our sins, his view is why didn't God just forgive us without torturing His Son.
The way my cousin has been taught to think is, everything must have a rational cause and explanation. So when it comes to spiritual things, he has a mayor problem with it because science doesn't believe in spirits. Scientists only believe what they can see and touch and perform experiments on, they are still waiting for a sign or a vision from heaven before they believe.
So all of those who don't have the God given ability to believe the Gospel will remain locked in their unbelief. God is a Spirit so we must worship Him in Spirit, carnal man falls away right there because they don't believe in spirits.
The way my cousin has been taught to think is, everything must have a rational cause and explanation. So when it comes to spiritual things, he has a mayor problem with it because science doesn't believe in spirits. Scientists only believe what they can see and touch and perform experiments on, they are still waiting for a sign or a vision from heaven before they believe.
So all of those who don't have the God given ability to believe the Gospel will remain locked in their unbelief. God is a Spirit so we must worship Him in Spirit, carnal man falls away right there because they don't believe in spirits.
-
1
- Show all
Jesus tell you why in simple clear and direct terms.
John 3:.16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Please take the words of Jesus over men who are not honest. Jesus does not lie nor lead you astray. You probably have a tendency to gloss over this passage because it is so familiar but read it carefully and really see what it is saying. Men choose to do evil and that is why some will not respond to the call of Gods love in the gospel.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
John 3:.16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Please take the words of Jesus over men who are not honest. Jesus does not lie nor lead you astray. You probably have a tendency to gloss over this passage because it is so familiar but read it carefully and really see what it is saying. Men choose to do evil and that is why some will not respond to the call of Gods love in the gospel.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
I prefer AMPC. It gives more information. Read verse 16.
John 3 AMPC
16 For God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten ([d]unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life.
17 For God did not send the Son into the world in order to judge (to reject, to condemn, to pass sentence on) the world, but that the world might find salvation and be made safe and sound through Him.
18 He who believes in Him [who clings to, trusts in, relies on Him] is not judged [he who trusts in Him never comes up for judgment; for him there is no rejection, no condemnation—he incurs no damnation]; but he who does not believe (cleave to, rely on, trust in Him) is judged already [he has already been convicted and has already received his sentence] because he has not believed in and trusted in the name of the only begotten Son of God. [He is condemned for refusing to let his trust rest in Christ’s name.]
19 The [basis of the] judgment (indictment, the test by which men are judged, the ground for the sentence) lies in this: the Light has come into the world, and people have loved the darkness rather than and more than the Light, for their works (deeds) were evil.
20 For every wrongdoer hates (loathes, detests) the Light, and will not come out into the Light but shrinks from it, lest his works (his deeds, his activities, his conduct) be exposed and reproved.
John 3 AMPC
16 For God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten ([d]unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life.
17 For God did not send the Son into the world in order to judge (to reject, to condemn, to pass sentence on) the world, but that the world might find salvation and be made safe and sound through Him.
18 He who believes in Him [who clings to, trusts in, relies on Him] is not judged [he who trusts in Him never comes up for judgment; for him there is no rejection, no condemnation—he incurs no damnation]; but he who does not believe (cleave to, rely on, trust in Him) is judged already [he has already been convicted and has already received his sentence] because he has not believed in and trusted in the name of the only begotten Son of God. [He is condemned for refusing to let his trust rest in Christ’s name.]
19 The [basis of the] judgment (indictment, the test by which men are judged, the ground for the sentence) lies in this: the Light has come into the world, and people have loved the darkness rather than and more than the Light, for their works (deeds) were evil.
20 For every wrongdoer hates (loathes, detests) the Light, and will not come out into the Light but shrinks from it, lest his works (his deeds, his activities, his conduct) be exposed and reproved.
You GLOSS!!!! over 100 verses which prove predestination and election before the world was made. God and study those 100 verses than come back and tell me why you refuse to believe Gods Word and you embrace sinful wicked doctrines of Demons.
Please have a quick read of these below and then come back and tell me who bewitched you into believing doctrines of Demons.
https://www.openbible.info/topics/election_and_predestination
Please have a quick read of these below and then come back and tell me who bewitched you into believing doctrines of Demons.
https://www.openbible.info/topics/election_and_predestination
The problem is God knew the end before the begining. The issue then is whether he continues to reach in and touch those who are elected or not. This is a dividing issue between Calvinism and Armenianism. Both point to the Bible to back up their view.
Here is something to think about. Jesus was God incarnate. Knowing the end from the begining God knew the cross from the begining and put creation in motion anyway.
Here is something to think about. Jesus was God incarnate. Knowing the end from the begining God knew the cross from the begining and put creation in motion anyway.
7
what those verses prove, is that you do not have a proper understanding of God
you ignore all scripture that refutes the Calvinist position, however it seems many of you have the same murderous spirit he had
I also have come to believe that is why so many Calvinists are so smug and self righteous..they see themselves as better because they mistakenly believe they have already been judged and proven 'worthy'
the only way a Calvinist could prove their beliefs is by illustrating proof from scripture they are above correction, above reproof and above having their deeds judged
y'all get a 'gold card' for entrance into your version of heaven and a private viewing box for the great event you look forward to of having the 'sinners' punished
your view in particular is obnoxious and very out of balance
and as I have said, if one has read your ops and posts, they begin to understand you seem to think God punishing sinners is a sport and God is recruiting those who want to push people over the edge in this world as you have expressed your desire to see people punished over and over again
yet Jesus wept over Jerusalem, knowing full well the fate that awaited Him
but He rejoiced knowing He was fullfilling the law that could not be kept and His body would not see corruption
how very little, slayer, you actually seem to understand of the gospel
you ignore all scripture that refutes the Calvinist position, however it seems many of you have the same murderous spirit he had
I also have come to believe that is why so many Calvinists are so smug and self righteous..they see themselves as better because they mistakenly believe they have already been judged and proven 'worthy'
the only way a Calvinist could prove their beliefs is by illustrating proof from scripture they are above correction, above reproof and above having their deeds judged
y'all get a 'gold card' for entrance into your version of heaven and a private viewing box for the great event you look forward to of having the 'sinners' punished
your view in particular is obnoxious and very out of balance
and as I have said, if one has read your ops and posts, they begin to understand you seem to think God punishing sinners is a sport and God is recruiting those who want to push people over the edge in this world as you have expressed your desire to see people punished over and over again
yet Jesus wept over Jerusalem, knowing full well the fate that awaited Him
but He rejoiced knowing He was fullfilling the law that could not be kept and His body would not see corruption
how very little, slayer, you actually seem to understand of the gospel
You refuse to address the one simple passage that Jesus spoke that is point on in the matter. John 3:16-21 answers the questions that have driven you into the path of error.
You cannot arrive at the correct conclusion if you approach the scripture with a faulty bias. Your 100 verses are biased by your predetermined conclusion. Correctly understood one easily determines that God does not predestine or elect some souls to hell. God does not rob them of their responsibility to choose between Christ and eternal condemnation.
Adam chose to sin. You choose to sin. God did not tempt Adam to sin and God did not tempt you to sin. You have the ability to choose and Gods word shows you the results of the choices you make.
God does know the end from the beginning but God does not create souls just so He can condemn them. God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked. Calvinism as it is taught today makes God out to be a bully and capricious.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
You cannot arrive at the correct conclusion if you approach the scripture with a faulty bias. Your 100 verses are biased by your predetermined conclusion. Correctly understood one easily determines that God does not predestine or elect some souls to hell. God does not rob them of their responsibility to choose between Christ and eternal condemnation.
Adam chose to sin. You choose to sin. God did not tempt Adam to sin and God did not tempt you to sin. You have the ability to choose and Gods word shows you the results of the choices you make.
God does know the end from the beginning but God does not create souls just so He can condemn them. God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked. Calvinism as it is taught today makes God out to be a bully and capricious.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
-
1
- Show all
Your right, God doesn't just create people just to condemn them to hell. He creates them with the freedom to choose and every single person chooses to rebel and sin against Him, so He has to either cast all of humanity into hell or save some as a trophy of His grace and mercy.
So He chose to save some for Himself and he called them the elect of God, whom He predestined for salvation before He laid the foundations of the world. THAT IS THE TRUE GOSPEL MY FRIEND, PLEASE DON'T ADD OR SUBTRACT FROM THE GOSPEL FOR IF YOU DO ALL OF THE PLAGUES MENTIONED IN THE BOOK OF REVELATION WILL BE POURED OUT ON YOU.
So He chose to save some for Himself and he called them the elect of God, whom He predestined for salvation before He laid the foundations of the world. THAT IS THE TRUE GOSPEL MY FRIEND, PLEASE DON'T ADD OR SUBTRACT FROM THE GOSPEL FOR IF YOU DO ALL OF THE PLAGUES MENTIONED IN THE BOOK OF REVELATION WILL BE POURED OUT ON YOU.
It is obvious you are a Calvinist. You ignore the fact that Arminians hold an opposite viewpoint backing it up with scripture.
Going back to 390 the Apostles Creed was created after it was felt the Roman Creed was inadequate. It is defining the beliefs required to be a Christian. Everything outside the creed was at that time be agree to disagree. There was at that time many issues where there was disagreements. Today this is the reason for all of the different gospel teaching denominations. All hold to the Apostles Creed. All of the large 7 sisters denominations are now secular.
Gary North wrote a book about the Presbyterian USA going secular in 1932 called "Crossed Fingers". Unfortunately only many of the sub denominations still preach the gospel. Presbyterian PCA and Lutheran Missouri Synod for example. I'm not sure which sub denominations in the other denominations are preaching the gospel. Secular ministers have taken over the big denominations in order to have access to the churches money. They just preach homilies unrelated to the gospel message. One local minister like that keeps buying a new Lincoln car every year. It is a sad fact a little less than 50‰ of the people attend church and most of them never hear the gospel message.
Going back to 390 the Apostles Creed was created after it was felt the Roman Creed was inadequate. It is defining the beliefs required to be a Christian. Everything outside the creed was at that time be agree to disagree. There was at that time many issues where there was disagreements. Today this is the reason for all of the different gospel teaching denominations. All hold to the Apostles Creed. All of the large 7 sisters denominations are now secular.
Gary North wrote a book about the Presbyterian USA going secular in 1932 called "Crossed Fingers". Unfortunately only many of the sub denominations still preach the gospel. Presbyterian PCA and Lutheran Missouri Synod for example. I'm not sure which sub denominations in the other denominations are preaching the gospel. Secular ministers have taken over the big denominations in order to have access to the churches money. They just preach homilies unrelated to the gospel message. One local minister like that keeps buying a new Lincoln car every year. It is a sad fact a little less than 50‰ of the people attend church and most of them never hear the gospel message.
Yes, your right we can make the Bible say anything we want so we have ended up with 40,000 Christian denominations all claiming to posses the truth but all at odds with each other over the meaning of the Gospel.
So the truth has been under attack from the beginning and it's no different today, I think it was Cesar who asked Christ "what is truth" he didn't realize that he was looking at the truth. Christ said "I am the truth" so this means that Christ has been under attack from the moment He entered the world up to this day.
The world hates Jesus and it would kill Him again if He returned, we hated Him as well before we were converted. The carnal man hates Christ and so do all sinners, so many who profess to be Christians twist the scriptures to make them conform to their fallen sinful standards. The most obvious is the Roman Catholic Church, it is notorious for twisting scriptures to suit their system of making money from indulgences.
I would dare say that 90% of the 2 billion who call themselves Christian, have apostatized. It's probably more but at least 90% have.
So the truth has been under attack from the beginning and it's no different today, I think it was Cesar who asked Christ "what is truth" he didn't realize that he was looking at the truth. Christ said "I am the truth" so this means that Christ has been under attack from the moment He entered the world up to this day.
The world hates Jesus and it would kill Him again if He returned, we hated Him as well before we were converted. The carnal man hates Christ and so do all sinners, so many who profess to be Christians twist the scriptures to make them conform to their fallen sinful standards. The most obvious is the Roman Catholic Church, it is notorious for twisting scriptures to suit their system of making money from indulgences.
I would dare say that 90% of the 2 billion who call themselves Christian, have apostatized. It's probably more but at least 90% have.
And yet with your next breath you will say everyone knew the path to salvation, and rejected it.
So everyone is stumbling around trying to find the true path to Christ's atonement.
The majority of unbelievers I talk to Have no idea how to truly serve God. The Antichrist and the Catholics have thoroughly deceived all mankind. So how does one get saved in this mess?
So everyone is stumbling around trying to find the true path to Christ's atonement.
The majority of unbelievers I talk to Have no idea how to truly serve God. The Antichrist and the Catholics have thoroughly deceived all mankind. So how does one get saved in this mess?
"...and THAT not of yourselves" (refers to salvation/eternal life)
"...it is the gift of God" (Romans 6:23 says "the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord")
"...not of works" (Romans 4:5 says "HIS faith [the one believing (not working)] is reckoned for righteousness" https://biblehub.com/text/romans/4-5.htm )
additionally, I've read where the certain parts of speech should AGREE in gender (etc), and the words for "faith" and "this/that" do not [per Eph2:8-9]. Therefore, it is not "FAITH" which is poured into the person (as "the gift of God"), and the rest of the sentence (as demonstrated above) seems also to bear that out.
"...it is the gift of God" (Romans 6:23 says "the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord")
"...not of works" (Romans 4:5 says "HIS faith [the one believing (not working)] is reckoned for righteousness" https://biblehub.com/text/romans/4-5.htm )
additionally, I've read where the certain parts of speech should AGREE in gender (etc), and the words for "faith" and "this/that" do not [per Eph2:8-9]. Therefore, it is not "FAITH" which is poured into the person (as "the gift of God"), and the rest of the sentence (as demonstrated above) seems also to bear that out.
And yet with your next breath you will say everyone knew the path to salvation, and rejected it.
So everyone is stumbling around trying to find the true path to Christ's atonement.
The majority of unbelievers I talk to Have no idea how to truly serve God. The Antichrist and the Catholics have thoroughly deceived all mankind. So how does one get saved in this mess?
So everyone is stumbling around trying to find the true path to Christ's atonement.
The majority of unbelievers I talk to Have no idea how to truly serve God. The Antichrist and the Catholics have thoroughly deceived all mankind. So how does one get saved in this mess?