The False Church

[mailmandan]

It seems to me you are missing all the important words of our God to us.

Like what for example?

First, to sin means death. That is what happened when Adam and Eve changed the world at the beginning to include time and sin. If we disregard the way God gave us to avoid death by sin so we are under law for our survival, it still means death. The only way out is to be under grace, and this means that we REPENT of our sins and ask for forgiveness, for grace to happen for us,.

We ALL have a sin problem. Romans 3:23 - ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23) and the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23) PROBLEM! What is the solution? But the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Sure, we must repent and place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ for salvation and by doing so, we are asking for and will receive forgiveness of sins.

Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

Romans 5:1 - Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Praise God!

The idea that God has one way for Jews and another for gentiles is not scripture. Over, over and again over God tole the Jews that God was leading to show us how He operated in our lives God told them it was for all men, not just for them. Do read scripture.

Show me in scripture where the Gentiles were under the old covenant in the old testament.

The new covenant did not change God, God is eternal. It made forgiveness more available to us, but God principle (as we are told over and over) remain the same.

God did not change. What has changed is that the old covenant has been made "obsolete" to legally put into place the "new covenant" (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:6-13).

God is a Hebrew God, not Roman or Greek or American. So we need to understand Hebrews to understand Him. But God created those Romans, Greeks and Americans and God wants us to look to the Hebrews to understand God. But God never said He was a God of only the Hebrew that God created to use to show how God operates. The idea is for us to look at what God did with them for it shows God principles for us.

Are you a part of the Hebrew Roots movement?

Romans 2:14 - For when Gentiles who do not have the law do instinctively the things of the law, these, not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them (This often-misinterpreted verse simply means that the Gentiles had their conscience, not the law, as their guide for right and wrong.)

Romans 3:21 - But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe..

Romans 9:4 - who are Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons, and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the law and the temple service and the promises.

Romans 10:4 - For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Galatians 3:28 - There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

 

[trofimus]

Oh well, excuse me then he had a difference of opinion on the Trinity and the RCC wanted him too because they all considered him a heretic...He deserved to die I guess?????

No where have I seen where Jesus said to put anyone to death. I mean he talked pretty rough to the Pharisee's, but I never read where he killed anyone or instructed anyone to kill anyone for not following what he said.

You said that somebody had to die because they did not agree with Calvin's man made doctrine.

You lied? Because Trinity or the fact the jesus is the Son of God is not a Calvin's invention.

"Brothers and sisters, do not slander one another."
James 4:11

 

[1ofthem]

Execution was a common practice all over the world in the 1500's, as a leader Calvin was expected to uphold the law of the land. Every country should go back to executing the wicked again, it would make the world a much better place.

WOW....

Sounds like you should reread the Gospel of Jesus. And focus on Jesus' words and actions...Just saying

 

[mailmandan]

To be under the law means that you go to the law for eternal life. In order to gain eternal life under the law you must obey every single law, both the spirit of the law and the legal law.

To be under the law means we will be condemned by the law because we have all failed to perfectly obey the law. Galatians 3:24 - Therefore the law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Are you actually make the statement that Jews go to obedience of every law for forgiveness, and no Jew reads any scripture pertaining to grace? That would be impossible and would condemn all Jews to death, when in fact scripture tells us they are blessed. It would make scripture a lie.

Not sure where you came up with this?

 

[1ofthem]

You said that somebody had to die because they did not agree with Calvin's man made doctrine.

You lied? Because Trinity is not a Calvin's invention.

"Brothers and sisters, do not slander one another."
James 4:11

Oh excuse me again...but the moral of the story is that he had a part in burning a man at the stake.

Please forgive me. I hope I have not done anything worthy of being called a heretic or worse yet getting burned at the stake myself.

 

[trofimus]

Oh excuse me again...but the moral of the story is that he had a part in burning a man at the stake.

Please forgive me. I hope I have not done anything worthy of being called a heretic or worse yet getting burned at the stake myself.

You are very evasive person. First, you convince a person of a sin he did not do and then you do not apologize for your slander, you do not try to correct your knowledge and claims, but try to switch your position to another accusations that are as baseless as your first ones.

Please, behave more Christ like.

 

[1ofthem]

You are very evasive person. First, you convince a persons from sin he did not do and then you will not apologize for your slander but try to switch your position to another accusations that are as baseless as your first ones.

Please, behave more Christ like.

I just said excuse me, please forgive me and all that so now what else can I to do about it???

Once again though, the moral of the story is that John Calvin had part in murdering a man because he considered him a heretic. The sad thing is that many people today would probably still do the same if they thought they could get away with it.

Calvin did not teach about the love of God (the scripture teaches to love everyone even our enemies) and from his actions it seems he didn't have any love of God within himself either.

 

[notuptome]

Do I need to list those 40 odd verses which support Calvin's teaching and you can come back with 2 or 3 which support Arminius.

Calvin was a sinner just like anyone else, maybe even worse that most. The truth remains true, no matter who proclaims it, so forget Calvin or anyone else. The truth is at stake here, we are to uphold the truth and let every man be a liar if they contradict Gods Word.

Remember one of Gods greatest men Paul, used to persecute Christians so lets deal with the issue rater than digging into Calvin's personal activities.

Well let me clear the air I do not support Arminius. The 40 verses you claim to support Calvinism do not and when taken in proper context would serve to illustrate how the Calvinists of today overstate their case.

The truth is at stake and you are not aiding the cause of truth.

1Jo 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Slayer]

Are you a proponent of "Dominion Theology / Reconstructionism / Kingdom theology / Kingdom Now theology / Theonomy" ?

... just wondering.

I am an Amillennial, so our theology is a Kingdom now. We believe that we are living in the millennial age where God is building His Kingdom and the gates of hell won't prevail against it. We don't believe in a literal millennium, we believe that when the term was used in the context of the revelation prophecy it just describing a long period of time.

 

[DudleyDorite]

Execution was a common practice all over the world in the 1500's, as a leader Calvin was expected to uphold the law of the land. Every country should go back to executing the wicked again, it would make the world a much better place.

People who disagree with radical theology are not wicked, they just disagree. You advocate people with the likings of Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Lenin, Mussolini, and dozens of others. You're in great company.
Calvin was evil.

 

[Slayer]

Yes

Here are just a few Bible verses that prove predestination, election and reprobation, and God’s sovereignty. I hope it's enough to win you over from the Arminian camp
Predestination
Romans 8:29 — “For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.”
Ephesians 1:5 — “Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,”
Foreknowledge
Romans 8:29 — “For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.”
Romans 11:2 — “God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? How he maketh intercession to God against Israel….”
Acts 2:23 — “Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:”
I Peter 1:2 — “Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.”
Election and Reprobation
Canons 1, 6 — “That some receive the gift of faith from God and others do not receive it proceeds from God’s eternal decree, ‘For known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world’ (Acts 15:18). ‘Who worketh all things after the counsel of his will’ (Eph. 1:11). According to which decree He graciously softens the hearts of the elect, however obstinate, and inclines them to believe, while He leaves the non-elect in His just judgment to their own wickedness and obduracy.

Romans 9:10-13 — “And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; (for the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth it was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.”
Election
Ephesians 1:3, 4 — “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:”
I Peter 1:2 — “Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.”
Reprobation
Canons I, 15 — “What peculiarly tends to illustrate and recommend to us the eternal and unmerited grace of election is the express testimony of sacred Scripture that not all, but some only, are elected, while others are passed by in the eternal election of
God; whom God, out of His sovereign, most just, irreprehensible, and unchangeable good pleasure

Matthew 11:25, 26 — “At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.”
John 10:26 — “But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.”
John 12:37-40 — “But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him: that the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?

Romans 9:13-18 — “As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the Scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.”

I Peter 2:8 — “And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.”
God’s Sovereignty
Acts 15:18 — “Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.”
Isaiah 46:10 — “Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:”
Job 23:13, 14 — “But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? And what his soul desireth, even that he doeth. For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.”

Psalm 115:3 — “But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.”
Daniel 4:35 — “And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?”

Romans 9:15, 18 — “For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion…. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.”

Malachi 3:6 — “For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.”
Jeremiah 32:17 — “Ah, Lord GOD! behold, thou hast made the heaven and the earth by thy great power and stretched out arm, and there is nothing too hard for thee:”
God’s Sovereignty over Sin
II Samuel 16:11 — “And David said to Abishai, and to all his servants, Behold, my son, which came forth of my bowels, seeketh my life: how much more now may this Benjamite do it? let him alone, and let him curse; for the LORD hath bidden him.”
II Samuel 24:1 — “And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.”
Job 1:12 — “And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.”
Job 1:21 — “And said, Naked came I out of my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.”
Proverbs 21:1 — “The king’s heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.”
Amos 3:6 — “Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? Shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?”
Isaiah 45:7 — “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.”
Acts 2:23 — “Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:”
Acts 4:27, 28 — “For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, for to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.”

 

[Slayer]

People who disagree with radical theology are not wicked, they just disagree. You advocate people with the likings of Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Lenin, Mussolini, and dozens of others. You're in great company.
Calvin was evil.

We can focus on Calvin's supposed evil, but we need to be fair about it. He lived in a different world where the death penalty applied to many crimes which are acceptable and even promoted as lifestyle choices these days. Doe's it mean that modern man is better for it, I would say not. I would say our society is even more wicked than Calvin's was, so we should judge him according to what the accepted norms were in those days.

I'm not here to justify anyone's sinful behavior, yes Calvin was a sinner but let God be his judge. I don't want to get into all of his personal sins and weaknesses, we all have those. I'm more interested in the Gospel message and understanding it as God intended us to understand it. If Hitler proclaimed the truth of the Gospel, should we dismiss it as false because Hitler proclaimed it.

We live in a fallen world where justice is not always served and the innocent suffer, ultimate power has corrupted the vast majority of rulers down the ages and onto this day. The power may have corrupted Calvin, but I also know that the truth is always the first victim when your opponents write about you.

You can read a lot of good reports about Calvin and then there's also those negative things his enemies wrote about him. In any case I'm more interested in the truth of the Gospel, than I am about the private life of Calvin.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Let's first of all compare the two usages of "etethēsan [aorist indicative passive - 3rd person plural]" (found in 1 Peter 2:8 and Acts 7:16, only):

https://biblehub.com/greek/etethe_san_5087.htm

 

[DudleyDorite]

The truth is at stake here, we are to uphold the truth and let every man be a liar if they contradict Gods Word.

Remember one of Gods greatest men Paul, used to persecute Christians so lets deal with the issue rater than digging into Calvin's personal activities.

Calvin was a sinner just like anyone else, maybe even worse that most. The truth remains true, no matter who proclaims it, so forget Calvin or anyone else. The truth is at stake here, we are to uphold the truth and let every man be a liar if they contradict Gods Word.

We should dig into Calvin's personal activities. It's no different than digging into anyone's personal activities if they have an evil past and claim to be Christian.
Paul use to persecute people while he yet an unconverted sinner. Not so with Calvin who was a professed Christian. See the difference?

Calvin was a sinner UNLIKE everyone else. Most people are not serial killers. You claim Calvin possessed the truth. Everybody seems to think they posses the truth. That alone is a turn off both to many believers and MOST unbelievers.

I am an Amillennial, so our theology is a Kingdom now. We believe that we are living in the millennial age where God is building His Kingdom and the gates of hell won't prevail against it. We don't believe in a literal millennium, we believe that when the term was used in the context of the revelation prophecy it just describing a long period of time.

There are times when certain terminology does reflect a "period of time." If God wanted to explicitly communicate a "long period of time" he could have easily done so and wouldn't have repeatedly mentioning an exact time frame of 1,000 years. The thousand years is a specific time period which culminates in the 7,000 years where God creates a new heaven and a new earth which I believe is "another earth"...this one is done with and destroyed. And you're the one talking about contradicting God's Word.

 

[notuptome]

Can you imagine what could be accomplished if we focused on Jesus instead of Calvin? Why the gospel would go forth and souls would be converted.

Why are so many so zealous in things which have no virtue? Reminds me what Jesus said of the Pharisees.

Mt 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Religion is not Spiritual. Religion enslaves while the Holy Spirit brings liberty in Christ.

Cease from waring against the good news of Christ. Whosoever will may come. Those who come He will not cast out. Alas ye will not come neither will you permit those who would come to enter.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[DudleyDorite]

Can you imagine what could be accomplished if we focused on Jesus instead of Calvin? Why the gospel would go forth and souls would be converted.

Why are so many so zealous in things which have no virtue? Reminds me what Jesus said of the Pharisees.

Mt 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Religion is not Spiritual. Religion enslaves while the Holy Spirit brings liberty in Christ.

Cease from waring against the good news of Christ. Whosoever will may come. Those who come He will not cast out. Alas ye will not come neither will you permit those who would come to enter.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I hear you well Roger. Christianity is losing ground today because of sects like Calvinism and Fundamentalism. People are fed up with self-righteous Christian hypocrisy and bigotry which is prevalent way too much these days. Everybody thinks their 'sect,' church, or religion has the truth, and everybody seems to think their church is better than everyone else's. That only turns off and confounds seeking unbelievers who see a divided church who can't agree on anything. Christianity has become a complete turn off to unbelievers, which is why you see very few young converts today.

 

[LPT]

Oh excuse me again...but the moral of the story is that he had a part in burning a man at the stake.

Please forgive me. I hope I have not done anything worthy of being called a heretic or worse yet getting burned at the stake myself.

Actually Although Calvin believed Servetus deserving of death on account of what he termed as his “execrable blasphemies”, he wanted the Spaniard to be executed by decapitation as a traitor rather than by fire as a heretic. The Geneva council refused his request and burned Servetus at the stake with what was believed to be the last copy of his book chained to his leg. John Calvin absolutely was not a forgiving caring person, his heart was hardened.

no need to ask that poster for forgiveness there's none needed.

 

[LPT]

You are very evasive person. First, you convince a person of a sin he did not do and then you do not apologize for your slander, you do not try to correct your knowledge and claims, but try to switch your position to another accusations that are as baseless as your first ones.

Please, behave more Christ like.

John Calvin had no quarks about excrable blasphemies, you need to read more, Mr. Righteous

 

[LPT]

So the question must be asked of all sincere believers: was Calvin correct in his view that heretics should be executed? And what does it say about him if he was wrong?

A letter he wrote the King of England concerning the spread of the Anabaptists to England presents an even more difficult issue — the persecution of people who believed in all the orthodox Christian creeds.

The problem with the Anabaptists was that, according to their conscience, they could not go along with Christians bearing arms, serving in government, or baptizing infants who could make no confession of faith. Calvin wrote King Henry the Eighth, “It is better to burn a few (Anabaptists) at the stake, than for thousands to burn in hell.”

 

[LPT]

Execution was a common practice all over the world in the 1500's, as a leader Calvin was expected to uphold the law of the land. Every country should go back to executing the wicked again, it would make the world a much better place.

And maybe people should report you to home land security for threats against people executing them.

Are you the next person to shoot up a church. Talk like that can land you in trouble now a days.