OSAS= House Built on Sand

[Zmouth]

Hi Zmouth, I'm sorry if I wasn't clear, but I was referring to the kind of "believing/trusting" that one does when they come to saving faith in Christ, not simply the belief that God exists, which is typically on the shy side of what demons believe (because at least demons "shudder" when they do .. James 2:19 ).

~Deut

You mean that sanctifying faith when one hears the Holy Ghost?

(If one believes that the world was framed by the the word of God then if the things which are seen were not made of things which do appear then why would in the world would they believe that hearing comes from the word of God that is seen. I guess it is like Jesus said about sinners not knowing that they don't even know liken to that which is written in Matthew 12:22, for judgement so that they which see not might see and those that see might be made blind. Or maybe that John 9:39)

 

[preston39]

What must occur to reject eternal security by faith....

a. Jesus is an inept liar that cannot keep his word
b. The bible is full of lies, tainted verb tense, deceit and not worth setting next to the toilet.

Saved to the uttermost
Kept by the powwr of God
Never leave or forsake
Believe = Eternal life
Eternal life is not eternal
In Christ's hand
In the Father's hand
Sealed by the spirit
etc.

So many truths must be denied, rejected and flat stomped on to deny and or embrace a losable salvation....and those who sell out to the-->> I keep myself saved by my own obedience gabage have not trusted Christ by faith!

d.....,
You can repeat this...... bovine residue....all you wish. That does not make it biblical, because it is not.

 

[justpassinthrough]

Do you still not get it?

The pharisees and scribes believed they were just. They isolated themselves from others they thought were beneath them ... the Lord Jesus Christ included.

Do you believe the pharisees and scribes were just because they believed they were just?

Do you believe Jesus Christ should not have eaten with the publicans and sinners?

The incident in Luke 15 is not the first time Jesus had to deal with the superior attitude of the pharisees and scribes:


Luke 5:

29 And Levi made him a great feast in his own house: and there was a great company of publicans and of others that sat down with them.

30 But their scribes and Pharisees murmured against his disciples, saying, Why do ye eat and drink with publicans and sinners?

31 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick.

Jesus said the 99 who were with the Shepherd were just, and needed no repentance.


The 1 sheep who was lost, became unjust, a sinner in need of repentance.

Couldn’t be any clearer.


JPT

 

[UnderGrace]

Jesus said the 99 who were with the Shepherd were just, and needed no repentance.


The 1 sheep who was lost, became unjust, a sinner in need of repentance.

Couldn’t be any clearer.


JPT

Why am I not surprised.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Jesus said the 99 who were with the Shepherd were just, and needed no repentance.


The 1 sheep who was lost, became unjust, a sinner in need of repentance.

Couldn’t be any clearer.

Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye [pharisees and scribes] are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

Notice Jesus told them they justify themselves before men … not that God justified them or that they have any interest in justifying themselves before God.

You want to believe they were just after seeing what the Lord Jesus Christ said about them in Luke 16:15 (the summation of the parables He taught in Luke 15)???

Have at it.

 

[lightbearer]

Then its not a gift, it is a reward which must be earned, good luck in trying to earn your salvation.

It is Paul’s and analogy not mine.
So run, that we may obtain. Keeping under our body, and bringing it into subjection: lest that by any means, when we have preached to others, we ourselves should be a castaway.


Paul says not me Romans in 6:23 The Gift of GOD is Life Eternal IN Christ Jesus.

Who we running in that we may obtain? Salvation is IN Christ and IN Him alone. The Gift is unity with Christ so that we may run in Him; bringing our body under subjection to the Spirit through Him that we ourselves are not a castaway and may obtain eternal life through life eternal; knowing GOD the Father and He whom HE sent. Knowing the FATHER. We and THEM together as ONE; the Body of Christ the Temple of GOD. Christ in the FATHER and we in Him that the world might believe!

 

[mailmandan]

Those are your words.

The Lord has given us a way to have our sins forgiven, if we should sin.

9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:9

JPT

Notice that - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (vs. 9) is IN CONTRAST TO - If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (vs. 8) and - If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us (vs. 10).

Some people misunderstand verse 9 to mean that we must confess each sin that we commit as we commit them (keep a specific inventory) as an additional requirement to remain cleansed and if we forget a sin we are toast!

 

[mailmandan]

The context of 1 John 1:9 shows us that John of course is speaking to children of God who are called to walk with the Lord, in the light.

John places himself among those he is instructing.

6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

1 John 1:6 - If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

*Walking in darkness is descriptive of children of the devil. Walking in the light is descriptive of children of God. Only those who are saved/believers are in the light.

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

2 Corinthians 6:14 - Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?

Ephesians 5:8 - for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light. Children of the devil walk in darkness, not in the light. Children of God walk in the light, not in darkness. IF confirms these positions in verses 6 and 7. It's one or the other.

In 1 John 2:9, we read - He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. In vs. 11 - But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

*Compare with 1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, (compare with 1 John 1:6 - does not practice the truth) nor is he who does not love his brother.

*Notice that walks in darkness, hates his brother is descriptive of children of the devil.

 

[justpassinthrough]

Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye [pharisees and scribes] are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

Notice Jesus told them they justify themselves before men … not that God justified them or that they have any interest in justifying themselves before God.

You want to believe they were just after seeing what the Lord Jesus Christ said about them in Luke 16:15 (the summation of the parables He taught in Luke 15)???

Have at it.

4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.
Luke 15:4-7


Jesus said the 99 were just and need no repentance.

He did not say the “justify themselves”.

Jesus said the one one became lost was a sinner that needed repentance.


Just read what Jesus said.


Please teach God’s people what is right and true.


You are not loving God or His people when you don’t teach the truth of what Jesus plainly taught.

His Sheep are those who hear His Voice and follow along with Him.


Those of His sheep who wander from Him and become lost, must repent and turn back to Him.


32 It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’ ” Luke 15:32


In order for one of His people who has wandered away from Him to be reconciled again (found) is to repent, turn back to Him in humility and they we will welcomed.



JPT

 

[Noblemen]

The passage doesn't really mean what it says because if it did mean what it says it wouldn't fit into my doctrinal construct.

Lol, that's funny right there now I don't care who you are

 

[LW97]

False.

1 John 2:19

 

[Ralph-]

Now answer my question.....how many denials are we allowed?

You understand the following passage to be talking about those who never believed:

"4For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. " - Hebrews 6:4-6

The believer has the same number of denials of Christ allowed before he gets turned over to his unbelief as the unbeliever does in your doctrine in the passage above. So, before you demand a hard and fast number of denials from me to prove my assertion, you provide a hard and fast number of denials for the unbeliever to prove your's. Fair enough? I think so.

Just think through how long God will endure the rejection of the gospel by the person who has never believed, and why, and what would determine that number in God's mind, and you'll understand how long God may give the ex-believer time to come back to his senses before banishing him forever from the salvation he received when he first believed.

 

[Ralph-]

False.

1 John 2:19

Now just make sure you never use the Prodigal Son to prove you can't lose your salvation (he left).

 

[UnderGrace]

You understand the following passage to be talking about those who never believed:

"4For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. " - Hebrews 6:4-6

The believer has the same number of denials of Christ allowed before he gets turned over to his unbelief as the unbeliever does in your doctrine in the passage above. So, before you demand a hard and fast number of denials from me to prove my assertion, you provide a hard and fast number of denials for the unbeliever to prove your's. Fair enough? I think so.

Just think through how long God will endure the rejection of the gospel by the person who has never believed, and why, and what would determine that number in God's mind, and you'll understand how long God may give the ex-believer time to come back to his senses before banishing him forever from the salvation he received when he first believed.

So we have gone from Galatians to Hebrews.

Game on, so then by your interpretation of this scripture then there is only one chance?

 

[selfdissolving]

yes

. . . and then we have 2 Timothy 2:13, "when we are faithless He is faithful" just to keep anyone from getting the idea that we're wise, smart and have everything figured out, lol

i don't know whether you've ever heard me say, but in my opinion OSAS is a deceptive and incorrect framing of the security of faith in Him. particularly, 'opponents' of the acronym present the hypothetical situation that a person is genuinely become redeemed by Him through faith in the gospel, and then later in time this person utterly rejects Christ, with the presumption implicit that they never turn again to Him. then the opponent says in one form or another, that OSAS teaches that this person who never repents either in heart or in action and who completely despises Christ is still saved and goes on to eternity with Him as an unrepentant hater of God, therefore OSAS is rubbish.
here's my problem with that: this argument essentially presumes that God's redemption and salvation is a completely ineffective, totally superficial and more or less meaningless thing. it speaks of 'becoming saved' in the first place as though it's a sticker that gets slapped on you by performing a little ritual of repeating a "sinner's prayer" out loud or being baptized in water or whatever. just a label you get, that doesn't actually change anything about you. like you get handed a ticket stub, now hold on to it or you're doomed again, but God doesn't actually do anything to you other than put you on His email newsletter list or something like that. now you get salvation messages in your ear periodically; up to you whether that's meaningful.
see what i'm getting at? ((i'm never sure if this is coming across))
'OSAS' is framing this all as though 'be born again' or 'a new creation in Christ' are purely artificial terms, that God doesn't fundamentally actually do any work that changes a person: that He doesn't literally create in a person a new heart, instead He gives you a 'life coach' to assist and instruct a person in removing their own heart of stone - or rather, re-structuring that existing stone heart into one of flesh by following instructions for assembly and maintenance.
the issue is that 'OSAS' is using a poor working definition of salvation. it presumes that a completely superficial act "is" salvation, that salvation is superficial.

if the problem with me is that i lack belief, that i fundamentally lack capacity and will to do so, does God do anything about that? what i know, is that He created belief in me, and that it endures in me. He began something effectual in me and He will complete it

we ought to start calling the wrong view OPAS. Once Prayed Always Saved.

 

[UnderGrace]

we ought to start calling the wrong view OPAS. Once Prayed Always Saved.

A genuine prayer can save not because of the prayer but to Whom it is addressed.

 

[posthuman]

we ought to start calling the wrong view OPAS. Once Prayed Always Saved.

lawl...

maybe Only-Sabbatarians-Are-Saved

 

[selfdissolving]

lawl...

maybe Only-Sabbatarians-Are-Saved

lmao
OTAS
Only Ten-percent-tithers Are Saved

 

[preston39]

Notice that - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (vs. 9) is IN CONTRAST TO - If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (vs. 8) and - If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us (vs. 10).

Some people misunderstand verse 9 to mean that we must confess each sin that we commit as we commit them (keep a specific inventory) as an additional requirement to remain cleansed and if we forget a sin we are toast!

m...,

There is no misunderstanding of verse 9. If not...then please tell me which ones we must and which ones we don't have to?
Regardless, we must repent of our sins in an ongoing basis. That's the reason The Lord's pray includes..."forgive us of our trespasses as we forgive those who trespasses against us".....a recommended daily prayer.

 

[posthuman]

lmao
OTAS
Only Ten-percent-tithers Are Saved

OSAI

Once Saved Always Insecure