God does not love all mankind.

[notuptome]

Matthew 10:29 Are not two sparrows sold for a [i]copper coin? And not one of them falls to the ground APART FROM YOUR FATHERS WILL. 30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 Do not fear therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.

So a 'worthless' sparrow can't die apart from God Willing it, yet a person is going to choose to birth themselves and become a Child of God?
John 1:
12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the [e]right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were BORN, NOT of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, NOR OF THE WILL OF MAN, but of GOD.

Not sure how it can be any plainer than that.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

God's will is done. Those that receive Christ are saved. Those that reject Christ are condemned. In both God is glorified.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Absolutely not true, Forest.

1 John 2:
2) And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 Tim 2:
4) Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2 Pet 3:
9) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

John 3:
16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17) For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

As I said before, you maintain a death grip on your misunderstanding of 1 Cor 2:14.

The Calvinism you have embraced is a false doctrine.

I have explained all of your quoted scriptures before, no need to explain them a second time. You still have not explained, word for word, 1 Cor 2:14, reason being, is because you can not explain it to fit your prideful belief that you contributed to getting saved eternally.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Why is it that whenever a pov is presented which someone does not agree with, it's because the person with the opposing view rejects Scripture? Roger fully understands your pov, he understands 1 Cor 2:14. It just could be that it is you who is unable to reason the scriptures.

Has it ever occurred to you that God allowing mankind to reject Him does not affect God's sovereignty? In allowing mankind to reject Him, God can still love all mankind, He can still desire that all mankind be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth. That some reject God and end up in the lake of fire does not mean God did not reach out to them at some point in their life and He was rejected by them.





So trusting in the Lord with all thine heart, and leaning not unto thine own understanding is not "work" on the part of the person trusting and not leaning?

If you are trusting in your own good works to save you eternally, you are leaning, which is actually PRIDE. You are not considering Dan 4:35, God accomplishes all of his will.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

God's will is done. Those that receive Christ are saved. Those that reject Christ are condemned. In both God is glorified.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

God is not glorified. You limit God's power to accomplish his will, Dan 4:35,. You say that God wants all mankind to go to heaven, but man has power over God to alter his will.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Why is it that whenever a pov is presented which someone does not agree with, it's because the person with the opposing view rejects Scripture? Roger fully understands your pov, he understands 1 Cor 2:14. It just could be that it is you who is unable to reason the scriptures.

Has it ever occurred to you that God allowing mankind to reject Him does not affect God's sovereignty? In allowing mankind to reject Him, God can still love all mankind, He can still desire that all mankind be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth. That some reject God and end up in the lake of fire does not mean God did not reach out to them at some point in their life and He was rejected by them.





So trusting in the Lord with all thine heart, and leaning not unto thine own understanding is not "work" on the part of the person trusting and not leaning?

If your eternal salvation is dependent upon any action on your part, such as believing, trusting, accepting, repenting, then it is works of man, and you limit God's power to accomplish his will, in which you say that his will is that all mankind be eternally saved. If eternal salvation is by works, then it is not by God's grace. Where you are getting confused is by thinking all of the scriptures that are telling you what you must do to be saved ( delivered ) from your disobedience here as you live on earth, you are applying to eternal, and not to timely. The inspired words of the KJV bible are written, to his children, as instructions as to how they can live a peaceable and content life here on earth. God takes care of their eternal salvation, by his grace, and not by man's works. When God tells us to make a choice to choose life, he is not talking about eternal life, but that good life we can live here on earth. Yes, God does give man a free will to choose things pertaining to his life here on earth, but not eternal, that is God's choice.

 

[notuptome]

If your eternal salvation is dependent upon any action on your part, such as believing, trusting, accepting, repenting, then it is works of man, and you limit God's power to accomplish his will, in which you say that his will is that all mankind be eternally saved. If eternal salvation is by works, then it is not by God's grace. Where you are getting confused is by thinking all of the scriptures that are telling you what you must do to be saved ( delivered ) from your disobedience here as you live on earth, you are applying to eternal, and not to timely. The inspired words of the KJV bible are written, to his children, as instructions as to how they can live a peaceable and content life here on earth. God takes care of their eternal salvation, by his grace, and not by man's works. When God tells us to make a choice to choose life, he is not talking about eternal life, but that good life we can live here on earth. Yes, God does give man a free will to choose things pertaining to his life here on earth, but not eternal, that is God's choice.

That is not what God says it is what you say but you are blind to the truth.

John 6:28 ¶ Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

The work of God not the work of men. We are commanded to believe to receive eternal life.

God is not glorified. You limit God's power to accomplish his will, Dan 4:35,. You say that God wants all mankind to go to heaven, but man has power over God to alter his will.

You make up ideologies that are not biblical and abuse those who love the Lord.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Slayer]

Yes he hates by not bleesing them with the gospel all workers of inquitity .Giving new birth as the blessing so that they can Love God who does the first work


The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Psalm 5:5 King James Version

Thanks for the Psalm 5:5 Jewel, I'll add it to my arsenal of verses to show those who push the lie that God loves all sinners regardless of how evil they are.

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the Bible teach that God only loves those who are in Christ. Why would a Holy, righteous and just God love someone who's every action and motive are sinful.
The Bible tells us that God will not tolerate sin in His presence, so how can He love something that He can't stand the sight of.

 

[PennEd]

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

God's will is done. Those that receive Christ are saved. Those that reject Christ are condemned. In both God is glorified.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Absolutely agree Roger. The question is whether the longsuffering and patience of God, and His unwillingness that none perish, is for those He chose, NONE of which will be destroyed, or the lost who will not choose Him.

I have in some measure dealt with this verse. How do you explain the 2 I posted, not to mention the dozens of others that say HE chooses? But I guess the 2 I posted are a good start.

 

[notuptome]

Absolutely agree Roger. The question is whether the longsuffering and patience of God, and His unwillingness that none perish, is for those He chose, NONE of which will be destroyed, or the lost who will not choose Him.

I have in some measure dealt with this verse. How do you explain the 2 I posted, not to mention the dozens of others that say HE chooses? But I guess the 2 I posted are a good start.

You must distinguish between Gods determinate will and Gods permissive will.

We must determine if Gods foreknowledge governs His actions to lead some to repentance and leave others to condemnation. I like the old analogy of election where we are in an election. God has cast His vote in our favor and the Devil has cast his vote against us. We have the deciding vote. I know the devil is not equal to God but God allows these things to demonstrate His love even for those He knows will not return His love but will deny Him.

Judas is a very interesting example of the heart of man. Judas had every opportunity to learn of Christ yet Judas valued the gold in the bag more than the kingdom of God. Christ knew that when He called Judas into His ministry.

Not a single soul that ever called upon Christ has ever been lost. Eternal salvation and preservation of the saints.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[plaintalk]

God accomplishes all his will, and none can stay his hand, Dan 4:35. If God wanted all mankind to live in heaven, he would have had Jesus to die for all mankind, but he did not because Jesus died only for those that God gave him and all that he died for will live in heaven, without the loss of even one. God could have had Jesus die for all mankind, but he did not.

And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world. (1 John 2: 2)

Who desires all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. (1 Tim. 2: 4)

Who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony borne at the proper time. (1 Tim. 2: 6)

The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. (2 Peter 3: 9)

 

[plaintalk]

If you are trusting in your own good works to save you eternally, you are leaning, which is actually PRIDE. You are not considering Dan 4:35, God accomplishes all of his will.

My understanding is that we are saved by the grace of God through faith (Eph. 2; 8), that works through love (Gal. 5: 6), with our works ( these are works of faith, good works which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them (Eph. 2: 10) (James 2: 22) Do they save us? You bet. (Rom 2: 7) How? As a result faith was perfected. (James 2: 22) We are saved through a perfected, completed faith, just as Abraham was justified by a Perfected faith.

These works are "our" works only in the sense that we obey, these are works of faith and hence works of God. Some of these works are prior to salvation and some follow.
-calling on the name of the Lord shall be saved (Acts 2: 21) done prior to salvation, but after faith
-confessing His name before men resulting in salvation (Rom. 10: 10, Matt 10: 32, 33)
-repentance leading to salvation (2 Cor 7: 10;
-baptism (Mark 16: 16; 1 Peter 3: 21)
-obedience of faith to all that obey, He became the source of salvation Heb. 5: 9)
-washing of regeneration. (Titus 3: 5, 6)
-doing good (Rom. 2: 7)
-keeping His word (John 8: 51)
-knowing God and obeying the gospel (2 Thess. 1: 8, 9)
God bless

 

[plaintalk]

God is not glorified. You limit God's power to accomplish his will, Dan 4:35,. You say that God wants all mankind to go to heaven, but man has power over God to alter his will.

No, no. God is sovereign, He chooses how He will act, whether in patient, loving kindness or in severity, but He has no pleasure in the death of any man.
God bless

 

[plaintalk]

If your eternal salvation is dependent upon any action on your part, such as believing, trusting, accepting, repenting, then it is works of man, and you limit God's power to accomplish his will, in which you say that his will is that all mankind be eternally saved. If eternal salvation is by works, then it is not by God's grace. Where you are getting confused is by thinking all of the scriptures that are telling you what you must do to be saved ( delivered ) from your disobedience here as you live on earth, you are applying to eternal, and not to timely. The inspired words of the KJV bible are written, to his children, as instructions as to how they can live a peaceable and content life here on earth. God takes care of their eternal salvation, by his grace, and not by man's works. When God tells us to make a choice to choose life, he is not talking about eternal life, but that good life we can live here on earth. Yes, God does give man a free will to choose things pertaining to his life here on earth, but not eternal, that is God's choice.

The elect are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God. Of what? (1 Peter 1: 1,2)
Faith is a work of God (John 6: 29); a gift (Rom. 12: 3; by the grace of God (Acts 18: 27)
We love because He first loved us. (1 John 4: 19)
If we love Christ we will keep His commandments. (John 14: 15)
The elect are appointed to eternal life. (Acts 13; 48)
The elect are appointed to obey Jesus and be sprinkled with His blood and cleansed. (1 Peter 1: 2)
Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to convict the world, not just the elect, of sin, righteousness and judgment. (John 16: 8-11)
Those who are convicted are drawn to Jesus by the loving kindness of God (Jer. 31: 3), and the hope and the truth and the kind invitation revealed in the gospel.
Those who "WISH" to come after Jesus discover that the first requirement of discipleship is to deny self. (Matt. 16: 24)
God gives grace to the humble but resists the proud. (James 4: 6)
He beget the humble to faith (1 John 5: 1), to practicing righteousness (obedience) (1 John 2: 29), to not sinning (1 John 3: 9). to love (1 John 4: 7), to overcoming (1 John 5: 4) and to holiness ( 1 John 4: 18), to hope (1 Peter 1: 3)
These characteristics of the divine nature are implanted within when the word, the seed, is implanted in our heart. (James 1: 18, 21; 1 Peter 1: 23)
The second requirement of discipleship is to take up our cross to die with Him when we are baptized into His death.
The third requirement is to follow Him by observing all he commanded.

When we have done all He commands, we are still unprofitable servants, we have only done that which we should have done. These things are derived from God, they are His doing. We realize that many have made these things into works of righteousness, as you accuse, but not all.
God bless.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

If your eternal salvation is dependent upon any action on your part, such as believing, trusting, accepting, repenting, then it is works of man, and you limit God's power to accomplish his will, in which you say that his will is that all mankind be eternally saved. If eternal salvation is by works, then it is not by God's grace.

God allows mankind to reject Him and in no way does this affect God's sovereignty, nor does it mean that those who do not reject God are relying on "works of man".

 

[plaintalk]

Ps. 5:5

The boastful shall not stand before Thine eyes, Thou dost hate all who do iniquity. (Ps. 5: 5)

This verse is presented as an argument against the proposition, that God loves the world.

How shall we respond?

First: I think we have to look at the nature of God, that which He has revealed about Himself.

God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. (1 John 1: 5)

The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love. (1 John 4: 8)

How do we reconcile those two characteristics? I don’t know, this is one of those things that appear inscrutable, but I believe they are true.

Second: we know that God does not hold the children guilty for their parents sins. “For the person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity. (Ez. 18: 20) The consequences are another matter.

Third: While in the mothers womb, the child has not done either good or bad. (Rom. 9: 11)

Fourth: Jesus said , “Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me, for of such is the kingdom of heaven.” This says to me that little children are blameless.

Fifth: How do we become sinful? “but each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.” (James 2: 14, 15)

Sixth: To me, and perhaps I am wrong, it quite is understandable to say that God so loved the world, but when one becomes engrossed in doing sin, rejecting the counsel of God, that love transforms into hatred of wickedness and those who engage in it. God will not be mocked. (Gal. 6: 7)

“ Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those that fell severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in his kindness; otherwise you will be cut off.” (Rom. 11: 22)

God bless

 

[reneweddaybyday]

To me, and perhaps I am wrong, it quite is understandable to say that God so loved the world, but when one becomes engrossed in doing sin, rejecting the counsel of God, that love transforms into hatred of wickedness and those who engage in it.

Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

If your assertion is correct, it appears to me God requires something of us mere mortals (love your enemies) that He does not require of Himself.

 

[Slayer]

Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

If your assertion is correct, it appears to me God requires something of us mere mortals (love your enemies) that He does not require of Himself.

There's only one slight issue with your understanding that God commanded us to love our enemies while He doesn't love His.

Before we pass judgement on God, lets consider a couple of things here. One, we should never compare ourselves to God for any reason.

God doesn't reveal everything to us about Himself, He has told us enough so we can know Him well but we will never Know everything about Him.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

My understanding is that we are saved by the grace of God through faith (Eph. 2; 8), that works through love (Gal. 5: 6), with our works ( these are works of faith, good works which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them (Eph. 2: 10) (James 2: 22) Do they save us? You bet. (Rom 2: 7) How? As a result faith was perfected. (James 2: 22) We are saved through a perfected, completed faith, just as Abraham was justified by a Perfected faith.

These works are "our" works only in the sense that we obey, these are works of faith and hence works of God. Some of these works are prior to salvation and some follow.
-calling on the name of the Lord shall be saved (Acts 2: 21) done prior to salvation, but after faith
-confessing His name before men resulting in salvation (Rom. 10: 10, Matt 10: 32, 33)
-repentance leading to salvation (2 Cor 7: 10;
-baptism (Mark 16: 16; 1 Peter 3: 21)
-obedience of faith to all that obey, He became the source of salvation Heb. 5: 9)
-washing of regeneration. (Titus 3: 5, 6)
-doing good (Rom. 2: 7)
-keeping His word (John 8: 51)
-knowing God and obeying the gospel (2 Thess. 1: 8, 9)
God bless

Eph 2:8, The Galatians letter says that faith is a fruit of the Spirit (must posses the tree before we can have the fruit). The faith mentioned in Eph 2:8 is the faith of Christ (his faithfulness to go to the cross), compare Gal 2:16 if you do not have the NIV because that version has changed the word "OF" to "IN". Our faith, that comes with the Spirit delivers ( saves ) us every time that we obey Gods commandments, and that deliverance is referenced to here in this world, not eternity. The natural man cannot respond favorably to God's spiritual laws, such as, asking, repenting, accepting, doing good works, etc. according to 1 Cor 2:14. The inspired KJV of the bible was written to Gods people for instructions as to how his children should live their lives here on earth, he also, gave them a free will as to how they would choose to live, but man's eternal salvation was God's choice and not man's.

 

[plaintalk]

Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

If your assertion is correct, it appears to me God requires something of us mere mortals (love your enemies) that He does not require of Himself.

Don't think that we mere mortals are on the same level as our Lord who knows the end of all things from the beginning. The judgment and punishment of wickedness is His job, not ours.
God bless. he did harden the heart of pharaoh, who he knew would not change.
God bless

 

[OstrichSmiling]

LOL

For the cause of Christ
Roger

It is blasphemy to mock a Christian and then claim it for the cause of Christ. Jesus never mocked or insulted the words of the Father.