God does not love all mankind.

[rlm68]

Sounds pretty good to me. Then you do know that God does not love all mankind?

He died for all of us. This is love. He created us all equally. He is quite aware people will choose to follow him vs not follow Him. Just because He allows it to happen (eternal damnation), does not mean He has less love for them. He is the perfect parent. And we are accountable for our own decisions. He wants to interfere and help. But He is patient and hopes we will call for His help.

Simply put, it rains on both the just and unjust equally!!

 

[Nehemiah6]

Ok, sense you are so much more informed than I, explain these two scriptures to me.

Rather than doing that, I will simply quote John 3:16 to refute your OP.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

You better read it again. God made this statement before they were even born into this world and having done no good or evil, to show that his election might stand.

No God did not make the statement that He hated Esau "before they were even born into this world and having done no good of evil".

Before they were born, God stated And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger (Genesis 25:23).

Do you know that Esau was more than satisfied in his life? When Jacob met up with Esau in Gen 33, Jacob offered gifts to Esau and Esau told him I have enough, my brother, keep that thou hast unto thyself (Gen 33:9). After Jacob persisted, Esau accepted the gift. In that culture, a person would never accept a gift from an enemy ... only from a friend.

Do you know when God made the statement Jacob have I loved but Esau have I hated? It wasn't until Malachi 1:2-3.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Is this world, in John 3:16, the same world Jesus says he prays not for the world? (John 17:9).

According to Thayer's 1889 edition, in John 17:9, the word kosmos falls under definition 6 – the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ.

So, to answer your question – no, not the same.

Interesting that the reference to John 17:9 is also removed from later editions of Thayer's.

Also interesting that you will not acknowledge something is going on between the 1889 edition of Thayer's and newer editions which have been modified to exclude pertinent information. Someone's messin' wit you, man. And you've been put on notice that this is going on. What are you gonna do now? Just sweep it under the carpet and act like you don't know?

 

[trofimus]

No God did not make the statement that He hated Esau "before they were even born into this world and having done no good of evil".

Before they were born, God stated And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger (Genesis 25:23).

Do you know that Esau was more than satisfied in his life? When Jacob met up with Esau in Gen 33, Jacob offered gifts to Esau and Esau told him I have enough, my brother, keep that thou hast unto thyself (Gen 33:9). After Jacob persisted, Esau accepted the gift. In that culture, a person would never accept a gift from an enemy ... only from a friend.

Do you know when God made the statement Jacob have I loved but Esau have I hated? It wasn't until Malachi 1:2-3.

I loved Jacob, 3 and hated Esau and laid waste his borders, and made his heritage as dwellings of the wilderness? 4 Because one will say, Idumea has been overthrown, but let us return and rebuild the desolate places; thus saith the Lord Almighty, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall be called The borders of wickedness, and, The people against whom the Lord has set himself for ever.
Mal 1

Seems that the love and hatred was not about their lifes, but about future of their children and about spiritual blessings of clans that descended them. The children of Esau were wicked and their places were desolated.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I loved Jacob, 3 and hated Esau and laid waste his borders, and made his heritage as dwellings of the wilderness? 4 Because one will say, Idumea has been overthrown, but let us return and rebuild the desolate places; thus saith the Lord Almighty, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall be called The borders of wickedness, and, The people against whom the Lord has set himself for ever.
Mal 1

Seems that the love and hatred was not about their lifes, but about future of their children and about spiritual blessings of clans that descended them. The children of Esau were wicked and their places were desolated.

Edom refused to let Israel pass through when the children of Israel asked:

Numbers 20:

14 And Moses sent messengers from Kadesh unto the king of Edom, Thus saith thy brother Israel, Thou knowest all the travail that hath befallen us:

15 How our fathers went down into Egypt, and we have dwelt in Egypt a long time; and the Egyptians vexed us, and our fathers:

16 And when we cried unto the LORD, he heard our voice, and sent an angel, and hath brought us forth out of Egypt: and, behold, we are in Kadesh, a city in the uttermost of thy border:

17 Let us pass, I pray thee, through thy country: we will not pass through the fields, or through the vineyards, neither will we drink of the water of the wells: we will go by the king's high way, we will not turn to the right hand nor to the left, until we have passed thy borders.

18 And Edom said unto him, Thou shalt not pass by me, lest I come out against thee with the sword.

19 And the children of Israel said unto him, We will go by the high way: and if I and my cattle drink of thy water, then I will pay for it: I will only, without doing any thing else, go through on my feet.

20 And he said, Thou shalt not go through. And Edom came out against him with much people, and with a strong hand.

21 Thus Edom refused to give Israel passage through his border: wherefore Israel turned away from him.



Edom could have embraced the children of Israel but did nothing but cause trouble for many years. Here is what God said about Edom and its downfall:

Ezekiel 25:

12 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because that Edom hath dealt against the house of Judah by taking vengeance, and hath greatly offended, and revenged himself upon them;

13 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I will also stretch out mine hand upon Edom, and will cut off man and beast from it; and I will make it desolate from Teman; and they of Dedan shall fall by the sword.

14 And I will lay my vengeance upon Edom by the hand of my people Israel: and they shall do in Edom according to mine anger and according to my fury; and they shall know my vengeance, saith the Lord GOD.



Amos 1:11-12 Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of Edom, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof; because he did pursue his brother with the sword, and did cast off all pity, and his anger did tear perpetually, and he kept his wrath for ever: But I will send a fire upon Teman, which shall devour the palaces of Bozrah.



Obadiah also has choice words concerning Edom.

 

[OstrichSmiling]

God's words say he hated Esau.(Malachi 1) Why think to try and argue God does not love all humankind? Why not be thankful he loved all humankind enough to arrive here as his only begotten son? So as to give all of humankind a chance to save themselves from being the worst that they are?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

What part of God loves you do you not understand?

Every man is able to understand that he is a sinner before God. Every man can understand that his sin merits eternal condemnation. Every man is able to understand that Christ died for him. Even you can understand that simple gospel message.

The natural man may not understand a lot of church doctrines but man can understand he needs to be saved. It is not what man understands that sets him against God but what he understands all too well. Reject Christ and perish for all eternity. Only by grace purchased through love and mercy can a man be saved.

Election occurs after salvation not before. Regeneration happens at the time of salvation not before. Indwelling of the Holy Spirit happens at the moment of salvation not before.

A natural man does not understand the mechanics of salvation but he does see and understand his need to be saved. Even a little child can see and understand his need to be saved. He may not understand all the grownup stuff in salvation but he can see he must be saved or spend eternity in hell with the devil and his angels.

Lu 18:17 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.

Humble your self and come to Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I can understand why you reject 1 Cor 2:14, maybe some day after you have denied yourself of being able to reason the scriptures out by your own understanding, the Spirit within you will reveal it to you. Pro 3:5, Trust in the Lord with all thine heart, and lean not unto thine own understanding. Eternal salvation by works is false, and nothing but man's pride.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

God's words say he hated Esau.(Malachi 1) Why think to try and argue God does not love all humankind? Why not be thankful he loved all humankind enough to arrive here as his only begotten son? So as to give all of humankind a chance to save themselves from being the worst that they are?

God accomplishes all his will, and none can stay his hand, Dan 4:35. If God wanted all mankind to live in heaven, he would have had Jesus to die for all mankind, but he did not because Jesus died only for those that God gave him and all that he died for will live in heaven, without the loss of even one. God could have had Jesus die for all mankind, but he did not.

 

[shrume]

God accomplishes all his will, and none can stay his hand, Dan 4:35. If God wanted all mankind to live in heaven, he would have had Jesus to die for all mankind, but he did not because Jesus died only for those that God gave him and all that he died for will live in heaven, without the loss of even one. God could have had Jesus die for all mankind, but he did not.

Absolutely not true, Forest.

1 John 2:
2) And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 Tim 2:
4) Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2 Pet 3:
9) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

John 3:
16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17) For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

As I said before, you maintain a death grip on your misunderstanding of 1 Cor 2:14.

The Calvinism you have embraced is a false doctrine.

 

[OstrichSmiling]

God accomplishes all his will, and none can stay his hand, Dan 4:35. If God wanted all mankind to live in heaven, he would have had Jesus to die for all mankind, but he did not because Jesus died only for those that God gave him and all that he died for will live in heaven, without the loss of even one. God could have had Jesus die for all mankind, but he did not.

I know all that you've said can be sustained by various scriptures.
That concise view largely sustains the philosophy behind Theological Determinism. Was that your intent?

 

[OstrichSmiling]

I can understand why you reject 1 Cor 2:14, maybe some day after you have denied yourself of being able to reason the scriptures out by your own understanding, the Spirit within you will reveal it to you. Pro 3:5, Trust in the Lord with all thine heart, and lean not unto thine own understanding. Eternal salvation by works is false, and nothing but man's pride.

I would suggest it is rather than pride, malignant narcissism, a real personality disorder. Or, a sign of ego-centrism. Disparaging God's capacity to work his divine will without human intercession. Arguing that God's grace saves but we have to labor to prove ourselves worthy. And find out if we were accomplished once we're before the judgment.

 

[shrume]

I would suggest it is rather than pride, malignant narcissism, a real personality disorder. Or, a sign of ego-centrism. Disparaging God's capacity to work his divine will without human intercession. Arguing that God's grace saves but we have to labor to prove ourselves worthy. And find out if we were accomplished once we're before the judgment.

God's will is for all men to be saved (1 Tim 2:4), He is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance (2 Pet 3:9). God's will with regard to salvation REQUIRES human intercession, or interaction, or a human response. Men must use their free will to choose to accept the gospel.

 

[OstrichSmiling]

God's will is for all men to be saved (1 Tim 2:4), He is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance (2 Pet 3:9). God's will with regard to salvation REQUIRES human intercession, or interaction, or a human response. Men must use their free will to choose to accept the gospel.

My remarks pertained to the bold part of the member I quoted: " Eternal salvation by works is false, and nothing but man's pride "

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I can understand why you reject 1 Cor 2:14, maybe some day after you have denied yourself of being able to reason the scriptures out by your own understanding, the Spirit within you will reveal it to you.

Why is it that whenever a pov is presented which someone does not agree with, it's because the person with the opposing view rejects Scripture? Roger fully understands your pov, he understands 1 Cor 2:14. It just could be that it is you who is unable to reason the scriptures.

Has it ever occurred to you that God allowing mankind to reject Him does not affect God's sovereignty? In allowing mankind to reject Him, God can still love all mankind, He can still desire that all mankind be saved and come unto the knowledge of the truth. That some reject God and end up in the lake of fire does not mean God did not reach out to them at some point in their life and He was rejected by them.

Pro 3:5, Trust in the Lord with all thine heart, and lean not unto thine own understanding.

So trusting in the Lord with all thine heart, and leaning not unto thine own understanding is not "work" on the part of the person trusting and not leaning?

 

[Slayer]

John 3:18:21 Just because you believe it does not make it true according to the word of God.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

All of the above verses are in perfect harmony with the true Bible teaching of predestination and election. They are calling those who have the gift of faith to claim their prize.

 

[notuptome]

All of the above verses are in perfect harmony with the true Bible teaching of predestination and election. They are calling those who have the gift of faith to claim their prize.

LOL

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[garee]

Romans 9:13 Jacob I have loved, but Esau have I hated.

Roman 9:22 speaks of God having vessels of His wrath, prepared for destruction.

So it sounds like God actually hates certain people, it's undeniable. The question is, who are these people and why does God hate them. The fact that God casts certain sinners onto hell, to be tormented forever demonstrates that He hates certain people.

Many say that God loves everyone, regardless of how much they have sinned. The Bible seems to indicate otherwise.

Yes he hates by not bleesing them with the gospel all workers of inquitity .Giving new birth as the blessing so that they can Love God who does the first work


The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Psalm 5:5 King James Version

 

[NoNameMcgee]

lol.... He rebukes and chastens WHO He loves



thats relationship between loving Father and child who needs correction

Hebrews 12:6-8
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

 

[PennEd]

Matthew 10:29 Are not two sparrows sold for a [i]copper coin? And not one of them falls to the ground APART FROM YOUR FATHERS WILL. 30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 Do not fear therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.

So a 'worthless' sparrow can't die apart from God Willing it, yet a person is going to choose to birth themselves and become a Child of God?
John 1:
12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the [e]right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were BORN, NOT of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, NOR OF THE WILL OF MAN, but of GOD.

Not sure how it can be any plainer than that.