Trusting in works for salvation (AND NOT IN CHRIST ALONE) is not obeying Him.
Oh goody another OSAS thread!
- Thread starter RickyZ
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Yeah right. You have made it crystal clear you teach salvation by works, which explains your obsession with promoting NOSAS.
More verses in scripture that are typically misinterpreted by works-salvationists (particularly Roman Catholics). You continue to read the Bible through the lens of works salvation and you also continue to confuse DESCRIPTIVE passages of Scripture with PRESCRIPTIVE passages of Scripture. At least we know the ROOT of your problem -- UNBELIEF.
The good deeds of the redeemed (those who have done good) are not the basis of their salvation but the evidence of it. A person's conduct, whether good or evil, reveals the condition of his heart.
Doing good flows inescapably from a heart that is saved and doing evil flows equally inescapably from a heart that is unsaved, as we already saw in Romans 2:6-10. Notice that ALL who come forth unto the resurrection of life (believers - vs. 24) are described as those who have done good and ALL that come forth unto the resurrection of damnation (unbelievers) are described as those who have done evil.
What did Jesus say in John 3:18? - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already..
Are believers described as "those who have done good" or those who have done evil?"
Are unbelievers described as those "who have done evil" or "those who have done good?"
Your's is the straw man. Trying to reframe the discussion with the false characterization that obedience to the lord is trusting in works for salvation.
No I interpret justified by works to mean what James, so plainly says it means, Abraham was justified when he obeyed God by offering his son Issac on the altar, just exactly as God commanded him to do.
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Likewise this same principle of obedience was demonstrated when Abraham obeyed God and was justified when got out from his fathers house and left his old life to follow the Lord, typtifying for us the obedience of faith concerning the Gospel.
By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. Hebrews 11:8
And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” Galatians 3:8
Notice it says “by faith” here in verse 8.
By faith involves his action of obedience to God’s command to get out and go.
Hebrews 11:8 says of this same incident that by faith Abraham obeyed, when he was called to go out.
God gave Abraham a promise, and a condition To receiving the promise is the obedience of faith.
Genesis 12 -
Now the Lord had said to Abram:
“Get out of your country,
From your family
And from your father’s house,
To a land that I will show you.
2 I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.
3 I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”
4 So Abram departed as the Lord had spoken to him, Genesis 12:1-4
The command -
Now the Lord had said to Abram:
“Get out of your country,
From your family
And from your father’s house,
The promise of the gift -
2 I will make you a great nation;
I will bless you
And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing.
3 I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”
The obedience to the command -
So Abram departed as the Lord had spoken to him,
The Gospel -
Repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand.
Turn to the Lord Jesus, by turning from your old life with Satan as your Lord.
The way a person obeys this command to repent, demonstrating that they believe this Gospel, is to confess Jesus as Lord.
For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Romans 10:10
- with the mouth confession is made unto salvation
This is the Gospel that Jesus sent His Apostles to preach.
Example -
15 So I said, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said, ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 16 But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. 17 I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, 18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’ Acts 26:15-18
Repent is about being transferred from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of God.
It's about changing who you serve, as your Lord.
Are you saying that unbelievers who do good, will come forth in the resurrection of life?
That is the Works gospel.
JPT
No need to explain away what James says with your false interpretation.
Just read what the scripture actually says.
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? James 2:21-22
- justified by works when he offered Isaac his son
Faith is made complete with the work of obedience.
Scripture must be reconciled not explained away.
JPT
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Yours is the strawman in assuming we preqch against obedi nce, and think obedience to the lord is trusting in Works for salvation,
You have been told so many times now, that only if obedience is taought as gaining or maintaining salvation is that true, but as you have done since you first arrived, you do not care about truth, or correctly determining whT people are saying, all you care about is protecting your own belief at all cost, even if it means slandering thise who appose you,
Stop making up vicious lies and misrepresenting what people say.
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?
Deal with the scripture itself, and believe what the scripture says.
The only thing that justifies is obedience to the Gospel.
Repent for the kingdom of God is at hand.
Obeying the Gospel is to repent.
Repent is to turn to the Lord.
If a person is called to turn to Jesus as Lord, then by default they must turn away from Satan as their Lord.
Obeying the Gospel is confessing Jesus as Lord.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Romans 10:10
- with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Do you ever study the word of God or just pick verses out that support you and ignore the rest?
Gen
15 After these things the word of the Lord came to Abram in a vision, saying, “Do not be afraid, Abram. I am your shield, [a]your exceedingly great reward.”
2 But Abram said, “Lord God, what will You give me, seeing I go childless, and the heir of my house is Eliezer of Damascus?” 3 Then Abram said, “Look, You have given me no offspring; indeed one[c] born in my house is my heir!”
4 And behold, the word of the Lord came to him, saying, “This one shall not be your heir, but one who will come from your own body shall be your heir.” 5 Then He brought him outside and said, “Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.” And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be.”
6 And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.
If you looked at the word you would see THIS is the passage James Quoted!
You would also see the following
1. Abraham had not even had a child yet
2. His heir was a child of his slave
3. God said this is not the heir of promise
4. God said an heir of his own seed will be the child of promise
5. God said his descendents would be as numerous as the stars in the sky
6. AT THIS POINT abraham trusted god, and at this moment he was made righteous,
Issac was not even born yet, how did abraham become justied at this moment if he had not yet sacrificed his son, as YOU ARE DECLAIRING?
Face it dude, your wrong, James spoke a truth, abrams faith was not a dead faith, it was a living faith, and he PROVED it by his works, in this way, he was justified by his work, but legally he was justified the moment he believed god in this passage james quoted,
Abraham was justified by the "works" of his heart and soul, that was his belief that what god had said was true.
the morning he woke up to take Issac the goat for the sacrifice could have been right outside his tent, the only reason he had to play out the whole scenario was for ours and the picture of scripture God was painting.
repenting itself is a turn of your heart and soul to God, its nothing you do.
the work of faith is %100 soul/spirit, nothing physical.
your obedience is only the fruit of Gods work in you, in all reality, you cant even claim it as yours.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Abraham was justied the moment he trusted god in gen 15, Issac was not even born yet, in fact, abraham would sin and have ishmael, showing his s week faith, before his promise was finally fulfilled in Issac, the thing is, abraham never stopped trusting he proved it by offering his son on the altar,
That is the point james makes, the point people like to ignore, so they can believe james is preaching salvation by works when he is not
Those who trust in Christ alone for salvation have already repented in the process of changing their mind and choosing to trust in Christ alone for salvation. The word of faith is in our mouth and in our heart together (Romans 10:8-10). Faith and confession are not two separate steps to salvation, but are chronologically together.
right, idk where people get the idea that it is a physical work that aides in salvation, or retaining it. its always been a matter of the heart.
So your now teaching that God commanded Abraham to offer his son Issac on the altar, but Abraham didn't have a son yet?
LOL
You are certainly confused.
JPT
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
I think it started with cain, he thought God would accept the fruit of his loabor (work) and not the blood of a lamb,
Legalism has been the main religion ever since, sadly it made it way into the jews camp, and the christian camp.
I think it is pride, and self preservation which causes it. We want to feel we can have control
Believing with the heart - Step 1
Confessing with the mouth, the action of obedience, - step 2
Case closed!
JPT
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
No i am not confused. And you just proved you did not read what i typed, or you would not have made such a foolish comment, you see i posted where god called abraham righteous, to get context, and again you totally ignored it, and thats what i am about to do for you, i do not play games with people who are dishonest.