The modern church and the "Sinners Prayer"- True or false teaching?
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There are many things in scripture connected to salvation. We can't pick and choose which one we want, we must do all of them- believe, repent, confess, etc. And there are a lot of 'ifs'- if we do this, if we do that. Sorry, you cannot just say a sinner's prayer and be saved.
Talking with Jesus on the road to Damascus did not save Paul. Belief (faith) did not save Paul. Praying nor being prayed for did not save Paul. Fasting did not save Paul. Being healed did not save Paul. Only one thing saves- and that is the blood of Christ- which God circumcises us with during baptism. Ananias said to Paul "What are you waiting for? Arise, be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord."
All the things that lead you to Christ's blood saves you because they lead you to Christ's blood. You can't get baptized without blief- cause that's just getting wet. Yes, you need to pray, believe, and all these other things, but not one of them saves you alone all by itself.
Talking with Jesus on the road to Damascus did not save Paul. Belief (faith) did not save Paul. Praying nor being prayed for did not save Paul. Fasting did not save Paul. Being healed did not save Paul. Only one thing saves- and that is the blood of Christ- which God circumcises us with during baptism. Ananias said to Paul "What are you waiting for? Arise, be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord."
All the things that lead you to Christ's blood saves you because they lead you to Christ's blood. You can't get baptized without blief- cause that's just getting wet. Yes, you need to pray, believe, and all these other things, but not one of them saves you alone all by itself.
Scripture says, if we confess Him as Lord, then we shall be saved. The focus isn't on getting people saved, but on people calling out to Him as Lord. I believe we've missed this because of an incomplete understanding of repentance. It's not about man's sinfulness, that's one part, but it's about God's goodness. His kindness and goodness changes our heart to desire Him as our Lord.
The so-called sinner's prayer is simply a script for people who do not know what to say. Those people who genuinely accept Jesus as thier Lord will be born again. However there are plenty of people who will just say this without any conviction and are simply doing so thinking they will gain eternal life and go off thinking they are now "saved", when they have not made a single step closer or any kind of commitment to Christ.
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In regards to the sinner's prayer, saying a sinner's prayer will not accomplish anything on its own. I must have prayed the sinner's prayer 20 different times with Pat Robertson while watching the 700 Club when I was a teenager, yet nothing happened. Why? Because there was no repentance and faith. Such a prayer needs to include what a person knows, understands, and believes about their sinfulness and need for salvation, followed by repentance/faith.
For a person who comes to the realization that he is lost and in need of Jesus Christ to save him, he may only obtain salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ alone. He needs to understand that Jesus Christ, God in human form, took his sins and paid the penalty for his sins by His sacrifice on the cross of Calvary, was buried, and rose again the third day, and he need only make a genuine and willful decision to totally trust in Jesus and His payment for his sin in order to receive eternal life. In doing this one is calling on the name of the Lord to save him.
Now if subsequent to such a decision, the person would like to pray what some call a "sinner’s prayer," (calling on the name of the Lord to save him in prayer) he may do so, as long as he understands that it was his decision to trust in Christ for salvation that apprehends his salvation and not simply reciting a prayer in of itself. Reciting a prayer, in of itself does not save, as if it's a magical formula to recite a set of words, but prayer may be used to call upon the name of the Lord.
For a person who comes to the realization that he is lost and in need of Jesus Christ to save him, he may only obtain salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ alone. He needs to understand that Jesus Christ, God in human form, took his sins and paid the penalty for his sins by His sacrifice on the cross of Calvary, was buried, and rose again the third day, and he need only make a genuine and willful decision to totally trust in Jesus and His payment for his sin in order to receive eternal life. In doing this one is calling on the name of the Lord to save him.
Now if subsequent to such a decision, the person would like to pray what some call a "sinner’s prayer," (calling on the name of the Lord to save him in prayer) he may do so, as long as he understands that it was his decision to trust in Christ for salvation that apprehends his salvation and not simply reciting a prayer in of itself. Reciting a prayer, in of itself does not save, as if it's a magical formula to recite a set of words, but prayer may be used to call upon the name of the Lord.
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dude i pretty much pray this daily 
i don't think i'm constantly getting saved/lost/resaved tho, of course
i don't think i'm constantly getting saved/lost/resaved tho, of course
p...,
...."sacrifice for forgiveness is not available where sin is present"..........if we have sin in our heart...un forgiven......we are lost.
Notice the Lord's prayer contains the following........"forgive us of our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us".......that is for the purpose of sin cleansing on a daily/regular basis.
This we must do....since it is very easy to sin.
dude i pretty much pray this daily
i don't think i'm constantly getting saved/lost/resaved tho, of course
i don't think i'm constantly getting saved/lost/resaved tho, of course
p...,
...."sacrifice for forgiveness is not available where sin is present"..........if we have sin in our heart...un forgiven......we are lost.
Notice the Lord's prayer contains the following........"forgive us of our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us".......that is for the purpose of sin cleansing on a daily/regular basis.
This we must do....since it is very easy to sin.
do you think you lose your salvation every time you sin?
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p....,
Yes.
We must ask for forgiveness of our sin(s).
The recommended daily prayer.....The Lord's prayer...."forgive us of our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us".....contains the needed prayer of sin forgiveness for the repented.
We are reminded that The Bible says we have unlimited times for sin forgiveness.
is that a yes?
you fail to do good that is in your hand to do ((sin)). you do anything not in faith ((sin)). you fall short of the glory of God ((sin)).
bam -- you're no longer saved. Jesus Christ drops you like a hot potato out of His everlasting arms ((so much for 'safe and secure from all alarms..♪♫')). instant transformation from sheep to goat, son to stranger, from known by Him to He never knew you.
. . until you ask for forgiveness, and then bam, presto-chango you're saved again. *whew* good thing you didn't physically die in-between?
would i need to get baptized again every time i sin?
you fail to do good that is in your hand to do ((sin)). you do anything not in faith ((sin)). you fall short of the glory of God ((sin)).
bam -- you're no longer saved. Jesus Christ drops you like a hot potato out of His everlasting arms ((so much for 'safe and secure from all alarms..♪♫')). instant transformation from sheep to goat, son to stranger, from known by Him to He never knew you.
. . until you ask for forgiveness, and then bam, presto-chango you're saved again. *whew* good thing you didn't physically die in-between?
would i need to get baptized again every time i sin?
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p...,
Say it like it is...from repented to sinner. A sin is a sin.
If we routinely ask for forgiveness then G-d knows we would ask for forgiveness and should we die before doing so G-d would forgive us. He is not unfair...you know.
If not .......then how long do we have before we ask for forgiveness.....a lifetime?...two days...1 month? How many sins can we accumulate....1....100...1,000. before asking forgiveness?
None of that makes no common sense. The Bible tells us in at least 14 times...to use common sense.
What is G-d's ....intent...in His teachings;.....that we keep our garment free of stains.....with prayer. That is one of the reasons we are told in scriptures to pray...without ceasing.....symbolic of..... praying often.
Say it like it is...from repented to sinner. A sin is a sin.
If we routinely ask for forgiveness then G-d knows we would ask for forgiveness and should we die before doing so G-d would forgive us. He is not unfair...you know.
If not .......then how long do we have before we ask for forgiveness.....a lifetime?...two days...1 month? How many sins can we accumulate....1....100...1,000. before asking forgiveness?
None of that makes no common sense. The Bible tells us in at least 14 times...to use common sense.
What is G-d's ....intent...in His teachings;.....that we keep our garment free of stains.....with prayer. That is one of the reasons we are told in scriptures to pray...without ceasing.....symbolic of..... praying often.
Every 10 year old I know goes to Sunday school and is well aware they are eternally in Christ as saved Christians.
The onus is on the individual that makes the claim that every time a Christian sins they lose their salvation.
If a child of ten can understand a false claim concerning salvation then that ten year old would know false teachings are not sustained by scripture. There is no such scripture that supports the falsity that is hoping to generate roots here.
The onus is on the individual that makes the claim that every time a Christian sins they lose their salvation.
If a child of ten can understand a false claim concerning salvation then that ten year old would know false teachings are not sustained by scripture. There is no such scripture that supports the falsity that is hoping to generate roots here.
Your claims can be dismissed.
You aren't aware that the onus is on the one making the claim that every time a Christian sins they lose their salvation. Your false claim revokes everything Jesus taught about eternal life and eternal salvation in him. It also condemns the sealing of the faithful by the holy spirit.
Because according to your belief the holy spirit would be evicted too every time a Christian sins because the holy spirit could not abide in one who returns to being dead in sin every time they do sin.
You are promoting an anti-gospel here. And attempting to put the onus on others to prove Christ's doctrine simply proves that. Furthermore, when you attempt to insult me and my intellect because I challenge with what is traditional debate rules, you lose your argument entirely. You're false! And that's a shame. Scripture doesn't support the false teaching you insist is true and that denies Christ and his sacrifice as well as God's grace covenant.
You do not get to deny Christ's truth without being confronted.
And that you ignored SpoonJuly's question, how many times have you been saved, does not go unnoticed either.
You aren't aware that the onus is on the one making the claim that every time a Christian sins they lose their salvation. Your false claim revokes everything Jesus taught about eternal life and eternal salvation in him. It also condemns the sealing of the faithful by the holy spirit.
Because according to your belief the holy spirit would be evicted too every time a Christian sins because the holy spirit could not abide in one who returns to being dead in sin every time they do sin.
You are promoting an anti-gospel here. And attempting to put the onus on others to prove Christ's doctrine simply proves that. Furthermore, when you attempt to insult me and my intellect because I challenge with what is traditional debate rules, you lose your argument entirely. You're false! And that's a shame. Scripture doesn't support the false teaching you insist is true and that denies Christ and his sacrifice as well as God's grace covenant.
You do not get to deny Christ's truth without being confronted.
And that you ignored SpoonJuly's question, how many times have you been saved, does not go unnoticed either.
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i haven't said there is no need repentance, no need for forgiveness, no need for asking.
That's not what i am asking you.
This is what i am asking:
Do we lose our salvation every time we stumble, and only regain it when/if we confess and pray to be forgiven?
Do you believe we are being constantly grafted in and pruned off and grafted in and pruned off again?
Or do you believe no one is saved at all, but *maybe* at the end if we've gone through all the individual petitions for every sin, we *might* be?
That's not what i am asking you.
This is what i am asking:
Do we lose our salvation every time we stumble, and only regain it when/if we confess and pray to be forgiven?
Do you believe we are being constantly grafted in and pruned off and grafted in and pruned off again?
Or do you believe no one is saved at all, but *maybe* at the end if we've gone through all the individual petitions for every sin, we *might* be?