GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

[LoveGodForever]

Originally Posted by LoveGodForever

Hi Dan, maybe I will try asking the same question in a different way provide scriptures and see how we go.

The next first question was what is God's LAW written on stone and made by God himself. You answered 10 Commandments this is correct.

The next question that we are still on is..

What laws make up the OLD COVENANT and what were their purpose under the OLD COVENANT?

This is already answered in post # 7401 linked CLICK ME, out if interest but let's move through this slowly.

...................

Q. What laws make up the OLD COVENANT and what were their purpose under the OLD COVENANT?

A. The OLD COVENANT was made up of two sets of LAWS. These included 1. God's LAW (10 Commandments) spoken and written by GOD himself to his people on two tables of stone and 2. the MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT written and spoken to God's people by MOSES containing the CIVIL, CEREMONIAL and ECCLESIASTICAL laws for forgiveness of sin offerings for the SNACTUARY PRIESTHOOD.Scripture support...

EXODUS 34 [28] And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the COVENANT, the TEN COMMANDMENTS.

EXODUS 24 [7] And he took the BOOK OF THE COVENANT, and read in the hearing of the people: and they said, All that the LORD has said will we do, and be obedient.

CONCLUSION; Two sets of LAWS made up the OLD COVENANT. These included
1. GOD'S LAW (10 Commandments) and
2. The MOSAIC BOOK of laws and ORDINACNES for remission of SIN.

AGREE OR DISAGREE?

Will chat more latter late my time

if the book of the covenant here Exodus 24: 7. And he took the book of the covenant
is what Moses wrote here Exodus 24: 4. And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD then the book of the covenant would contain the ten commandments

Indeed the BOOK of MOSES is the TORAH. It is the first 5 books of the bible (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy) containing all the history of mankind and all the laws and ordinances of the OLD Covenant. That is not the question however.

The question however is what laws make up the OLD COVENANT?

You seem reluctant to answer the question it is ok if you do not want to. I have provided the scriptures already.

Both 1. God's LAW (10 Commandments) on two tables of stone spoken and written by God himself and 2. The Mosiac book of the COVENANANT written and spoken by Moses were housed in the ARK of the COVENANT. Together these made up the OLD Covenant.

Now what do you think was the purpose of both 1. God's LAW (10 Commandments) and 2. The laws and ordinances for remission of SIN written in the Mosiac BOOK of the Covenant?

 

[LoveGodForever]

Considering that the entire thread is to try and convince people to observe the Sabbath - then the answer on that specific is most definitely no!
The Sabbath is part of a covenant (Sinaitic) to which I was never a part (not born a Jew) and the New covenant to which I am a part has abrogated the covenant (Sinaitic) in which, not only, is the Sabbath commanded, but it is also the sign of that covenant (Sinaitic).

As for the rest of the commandments there are ample New Testament texts that explicitly confirm that the principles of those commandments are confirmed for New covenant believers.

No such luck for the Sabbath!!!!!

Seems you are mixed up with your understanding of the OLD and NEW COVENANTS and once again do not have God's word to support your Catholic teachings and traditions that break the Commandments of God. Only God's WORD is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it of the teachings and traditions of men. Your argument is with God my friend not me these are God's WORD'S not mine. Maybe you need to read your bible more?

The mystery continue... Sola Scriptura where are you?

......................

It seems in your view according to the NEW TESTAMENT scriptures.....

1. Jesus did not teach that it is lawful to do GOOD on the Sabbath? (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56)

2. In your view; Jesus did not teach that God's Sabbath was made for mankind and not man for the Sabbath rebuking the tradtions of the Jew in regards to their traditions and interpretation around Sabbath keeping? (Mark 2:27-28; Matthew 12:8)

3. In your view; Jesus did not teach that he was the maker and creator of the Sabbath and the God of creation? (Hebrews 1:2; John 1:1-3; 14; Ephesians 3:9; Colossians 1:16-17; Mark 2:27)

4. In your view; Jesus is not our example who kept the Sabbath as well as all those who followed him (Matt 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matt 16:24; Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Rev 1:10)

5. In your view; was Jesus was lying when he said those that break God's Commandments and teach others to do so will not enter God's Kingdom? (Matt 5:19)

6. In your view; Jesus was lying when he said not a jot or tittle will pass from God's LAW until heaven and earth pass away? (Matthew 5:18)

7 . In your view; Jesus was lying when he said that on the two great commandments of LOVE to GOD and MAN hang ALL the LAW and the prophets? (Matthew 22:36-40)

8. In your view; Paul is not to be believed when he gives us warnings that those who do NOT believe and follow GOD
do not enter into God's Sabbath rest because of their SINS and UNBELIEF (Hebrews 3-4)?

9. In your view; there is only 9 Commandments not 10 and James is lying when he says that if you break one of God's Commandments you stand guilty before God of breaking all of them (James 2:8-12).

10. In your view; the OLD Testament scriptures are not to be BELIEVED, and Timothy is not to be believed when he says ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16)

11. In your view; God's 4th Commandment is not one of God's 10 Commandments

Why would Jesus and the Apostles give us further instruction in relation to Sabbath keeping building on the OLD TESTAMENET scriptures if we no longer need to keep it? (Point 1, 2, 3, 6)

If your understanding of the scriptures are correct you will have no problems providing scripture for the following questions;

......................

Please feel free to show us from the Scriptures

1. That God's 4th Commandment has now been ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a HOLY day?

2. That Jesus is a Sabbath?

3. The Sabbath (seventh day) was ever changed from the seventh to the first day of the week?

4. Where we are told to keep the first day of the week holy?

5. Where the first day of the week (Sunday) is ever called a holy day?

6. That says that Jesus ever kept the first day (Sunday)?

7. That tells us to keep the first day in honour of the resurrection of Christ?

8. Where the first day is ever given any sacred name?

9. That affirms that any of the apostles ever kept the first day as the Sabbath?

10. From any apostolic writings that authorizes Sunday observance as the Sabbath of God?

11. Where we are told not to work on the first day of the week?

12. That says the seventh day is no longer God's Sabbath day?

13. That says the seventh day Sabbath is ABOLISHED?

14. Where the apostles ever taught any convert to keep the first day of the week as a Sabbath?

15. Where the first day was ever appointed to be kept as the Lord's Day?

16. Where the first day of the week is ever called the Lord's Day?

17. That says that the first day of the week was ever sanctified and hallowed as a day of rest?

18. That says that the Father or the Son (Jesus) rested on the first day of the week?

19. That says that Jesus, Paul or any other of the apostles taught anyone to observe the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

20. That calls the seventh day the “Jewish Sabbath” or one text that calls Sunday the “Christian Sabbath”?

21. Telling man to keep the first day of the week holy or to worship or rest on the first day of the week?

22. Authorizing anyone to set aside God's Sabbath and observe any other day?

23. Showing any of the apostles keeping the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

24. Authorizing someone to set aside the fourth Commandment and observe any other day of the week?

25. Where any apostle taught us to keep the first day of the week as the Sabbath?

26. Declaring that the seventh day is no longer the Eternal Sabbath day?

27. Where Sunday is now appointed to be kept as the New Testament Sabbath or holy day?

If your lamp has gone out how can you find your way when the road is dark and narrow is the way?

God's Sheep hear his Voice.

 

[Dan_473]

Bible Truth Versus Adventist Truth - Mark of the Beast

thanks, MMD

i checked out the link

 

[Dan_473]

Indeed the BOOK of MOSES is the TORAH. It is the first 5 books of the bible (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy) containing all the history of mankind and all the laws and ordinances of the OLD Covenant. That is not the question however.

The question however is what laws make up the OLD COVENANT?

You seem reluctant to answer the question it is ok if you do not want to. I have provided the scriptures already.

Both 1. God's LAW (10 Commandments) on two tables of stone spoken and written by God himself and 2. The Mosiac book of the COVENANANT written and spoken by Moses were housed in the ARK of the COVENANT. Together these made up the OLD Covenant.

Now what do you think was the purpose of both 1. God's LAW (10 Commandments) and 2. The laws and ordinances for remission of SIN written in the Mosiac BOOK of the Covenant?

i didn't mention the BOOK of MOSES or the TORAH in my answer

i said,
if the book of the covenant here Exodus 24: 7. And he took the book of the covenant

is what Moses wrote here Exodus 24: 4. And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD

then the book of the covenant would contain the ten commandments

do you agree that those two verses, 7 and 4, are talking about the same book?

 

[mailmandan]

Verse 14 “Having blotted out the handwriting to the ordinances that is against us, that was contrary to us, and he hath taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.”

It is the handwriting to the ordinances that were blotted out not the ordinances themselves and definitely not the Decalogue.

And mind you it is only those which were against us, not those to which described what righteousness is. Those writings are they which describe the Life which is available to us in Christ Jesus. These and the Decalogue are they which are in our hearts, minds, and mouths theough Christ's indewlling.

SDA's admit that the Ten Commandments are central in the Old Cove*nant, but they also know that it would be fatal to their position if the Ten Commandments were part of what was "abolished in His flesh.. .even the law of commandments contained in ordinances" (Ephesians 2:14,15; Colossians 2:14). SDA's argue that only the law of ceremonies was nailed to the cross, and the Ten Commandments were not included. But this is an inter*pretation driven by an agenda, not by listening to the texts. Paul says that whatever was nailed to the cross was "against us and contrary to us" (Colossians 2:14). Wouldn’t Paul’s remarks indicate that he has something in mind that would justly accuse and condemn us?

"He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant — not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills...the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone...the ministry that condemns" (2 Corinthians 3:6-9).

The Old Covenant law was a unit of some 613 commands. The natural reading of Ephesians 2:14,15 and Colossians 2:14 would see that the entire Old Covenant written code was nailed to the cross, including the Ten Commandments (with all the rules and regulations attached to them under the Mosaic Law) which were the center point of the Old Covenant (Exodus 34:29-34).

*Although the moral principles of 9 of the 10 commandments are reiterated under the New Covenant.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 5:12
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3

 

[Dan_473]

Indeed the BOOK of MOSES is the TORAH. It is the first 5 books of the bible (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy) containing all the history of mankind and all the laws and ordinances of the OLD Covenant. That is not the question however.

The question however is what laws make up the OLD COVENANT?

You seem reluctant to answer the question it is ok if you do not want to. I have provided the scriptures already.

Both 1. God's LAW (10 Commandments) on two tables of stone spoken and written by God himself and 2. The Mosiac book of the COVENANANT written and spoken by Moses were housed in the ARK of the COVENANT. Together these made up the OLD Covenant.

Now what do you think was the purpose of both 1. God's LAW (10 Commandments) and 2. The laws and ordinances for remission of SIN written in the Mosiac BOOK of the Covenant?

"Now what do you think was the purpose of both 1. God's LAW (10 Commandments) and 2. The laws and ordinances for remission of SIN written in the Mosiac BOOK of the Covenant?"

i believe the purpose of the laws in the old covenant
(whether we put them into two or more categories)
is given here

Exodus 19: 5. Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: 6. And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation.

 

[LoveGodForever]

SDA's admit that the Ten Commandments are central in the Old Cove*nant, but they also know that it would be fatal to their position if the Ten Commandments were part of what was "abolished in His flesh.. .even the law of commandments contained in ordinances" (Ephesians 2:14,15; Colossians 2:14). SDA's argue that only the law of ceremonies was nailed to the cross, and the Ten Commandments were not included. But this is an inter*pretation driven by an agenda, not by listening to the texts. Paul says that whatever was nailed to the cross was "against us and contrary to us" (Colossians 2:14). Wouldn’t Paul’s remarks indicate that he has something in mind that would justly accuse and condemn us?

"He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant — not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills...the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone...the ministry that condemns" (2 Corinthians 3:6-9).

The Old Covenant law was a unit of some 613 commands. The natural reading of Ephesians 2:14,15 and Colossians 2:14 would see that the entire Old Covenant written code was nailed to the cross, including the Ten Commandments (with all the rules and regulations attached to them under the Mosaic Law) which were the center point of the Old Covenant (Exodus 34:29-34).

*Although the moral principles of 9 of the 10 commandments are reiterated under the New Covenant.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 5:12
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3

Hmm well that has no truth in it at all. Already addressed with Gods' WORD please feel free to address all the posts and scripture that disagree with you. All you have provided is either twisted scripture or cherry picked scripture ignoring scripture.

....................

1. CLICK ME FOR COL 2:14-17

2. CLICK HERE; WHAT MAKES UP THE OLD COVENANT?

3. CLICK HERE; SHADOW LAWS OF THE OLD COVENANT?.

4. CLICK HERE; WHY THE SABBATH CANNOT BE A CEREMONIAL LAW?

5. CLICK HERE: WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO ENTER GOD'S REST?

6. CLICK HERE; THE OLD COVENANT LEADS TO THE NEW COVENANT


.....................

God's 10 commandments referenced in the New Testament

1 You shall have no other gods before Me.
It is written: You shall worship the Lord your God and Him only you shall serve. (Luke 4:8; Matthew 4:10; Revelation 14:7)

2 You must not make for yourself a carved image, a likeness of anything in heaven, on earth, or under the sea.
God is Spirit and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth. (John 4:24; Acts 15:20; 1 Corinthians 6:9; Ephesians 5:5; 1 Peter 4:3; 1 John 5:21; Revelation 2:14)

3 You shall not take the Name of the Lord your God in vain.
(1 Timothy 6:1, James 2:7)

4 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. (woops you left out a lot of scripture here)
The Sabbath [seventh day] was made for man, not man for the Sabbath, so the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath. (Mark 2:27-28, Hebrews 4; Matthew 12:8; Matthew 12:1-8; 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56(Mark 2:28; Matthew 10-12; 24:20; Mark 3:1-5; Luke 6:1-10; 13:14-16; 14:1-5; John 7:22-23; 9:14; Mark 1:21; Mark 6:2; Luke 4:16; 31; Luke 14:1; 23:56; John 2:6; Matthew 16:24; 1; Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Revelations 1:10 Is binding on all mankind today COL 2:14-17 THE REAL TRUTH THREAD (Linked)

5 Honour your father and mother.
Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. (Ephesians 6:1; Colossians 3:20; Matthew 15:4; Matthew 19:19)

6 You shall not murder.
I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. (Matthew 5:44-45; Matt. 5:21-26; Romans 13:9; 1 Timothy 1:9; 1 John 3:15; James 2:11; Matthew 19:18)

7 You shall not commit adultery.
I say to you whoever even looks at another in lust has already committed adultery in their heart. (Matthew 5:28, 1 Cor. 5:11, 1 Cor. 6:18, Galatians 5:19, Hebrews 13:4, James 2:11, Matthew 19:19, Romans 13:9)

8 You shall not steal.
Neither thieves, the greedy, or drunkards and robbers will inherit the Kingdom. (1 Corinthians 6:10, Romans 2:21, Mark 7:21, Ephesians 4:28, Romans 13:9, Matthew 19:18)

9 You shall not bear false witness.
For by your words, you will be justified and by your words you will be condemned. (Matthew 15:19, Ephesians 4:25, Col. 3:9; Matthew 19:18, Romans 13:9)

10 You shall not covet your neighbours possessions.
Take heed and beware of covetousness, for one’s life does not consist of the things he possesses. (Luke 12:15, Romans 7:7, Ephesians 5:3, 1 Tim. 6:10, Hebrews 13:5, Romans 13:9)

Yep looks like there is a lot of scriptures here that disagrees with you and we have not even looked at all the scriptures in the NT on the 10 commandments on which the 4th commandment is one of the ten.

...................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4) Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

...................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12).

If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

 

[LoveGodForever]

An unbiased reading of Colossians 2:16 will show that this is talking about not just "ceremonial Sabbaths." The words "ton sabbaton" or "sabbath days"; are the same words translated "Sabbath day" in Exodus 20:8 in the Septuagint (the Jewish translation of the Old Testament into Greek). Look at Paul's reasoning, "Let no one judge you regarding a,festival - yearly Sabbaths, a new moon - monthly Sabbaths, or a Sabbath day - weekly Sabbaths (or if you wish Sabbath days)"CHRIST, he goes on to say is the "Substance", these things were shadows.

The GREEK word Sabbaton has many application depending on scripture and chapter CONTEXT.

Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - SABBATH G4521; σάββατον; sabbaton; sab'-bat-on Of Hebrew origin [H7676]; the Sabbath , or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight, that is, the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications: - sabbath (day), week.

The Chapter and within scripture CONTEXT is the laws and ORDINANCES written in the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT; NOT the 10 Commandments. The application is the SHADOW law for remission of SIN and the penalty of SIN pointing to the NEW COVENANT in Christ. NOT the 10 Commandments

The application is
v11 CIRCUMCISION (Ordinance from the Mosaic BOOK of the Covenant);
v14 BLOTTING OUT the MANUSCRIPT of ORDINANCES (GREEK; CIVIL, CEREMONIAL, ECCLESIASTICAL laws)
v16 NEW MOONS (Shadow laws in ordinances); FESTIVALS (ORDINANCES OF ANNUAL FESTIVALS written in the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT; * NOTE: these are not yearly Sabbaths; they are festivals that can go longer or shorter then a week; see LEV 23); SABBATHS (plural; looking at CONTEXT is the annual ceremonial Sabbaths (not weekly) that can fall on any day of the week)

LEV 23 also has many days of HOLY CONVOCATION on which NO WORK is carried out which is an ORDINANCE to the annual festivals many fulfilled in Christ. * NOTE: the application of SABBATON here can also mean; the CEREMONAL special Sabbaths of LEV 23 and the days of HOLY CONVOCATION as which time NO WORK was allowed as the meaning of SABBATON also means; day of weekly repose from secular avocations. ALL THE CHAPTER and within Scripture CONTEXT is the blotting out of ORDINANCES that are fulfilled in Christ as well as out SINS.

Scripture support for all the above can be found here...

..................

CLICK ME FOR COL 2:14-17

CLICK HERE; SHADOW LAWS OF THE OLD COVENANT?.

CLICK HERE; WHY THE SABBATH CANNOT BE A CEREMONIAL LAW?

CLICK HERE: WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO ENTER GOD'S REST?

...................

The rest of your post has already fallen to pieces because

1. Your premise you are building your argument is you interpret v16 FESTIVALS as annual Sabbaths when they are annual FESTIVALS (not annual Sabbaths) this is NOT the GREEK words interpretation;

2. Your lack of understanding of the meaning of SABBATON and its application; and

3. The CHAPTER and SCRIPTURE CONTEXT of COL 2 in relation to the OLD and NEW COVENANT scripture that COL 2 is addressing (see above links for more scripture)

...................

SIN is the breaking of God's Commandments (James 2:9-11; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4) Those who CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will NOT enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

...................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12).

If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

 

[PS]

Got to go to the gym and get some things done around the house.

May the LORD our GOD; CREATOR and SUSTAINER of all, bless us and keep us in HIS Son Jesus Christ.

You exercising and working on the Lord's Day instead of being in church. That's not normal Christian practice. We would be breaking bread as well. Jesus commanded it. I know fake Christians like that. By their fruits are they known.

 

[mailmandan]

In Colossians 2:16 Sabbath is plural. It starts with the word therefore. Which means that it is connected to what was previously stated. .

Also be sure to go back and read post #4165.

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ol-2-14-17-who-do-we-believe-god-man-209.html

 

[graceNpeace]

sda folks believe The Mark of the Beast is Sunday worship?

i hadn't heard that

i like to collect good references whenever i can,
do you have something from an official sda book or website on that?

The average Christian actually has NO idea what Adventists believe, and they exploit that - just as is demonstrated on this forum currently.
Why don't you go and take a look at the website prominently advertised by LGF called The Beastmark is Coming

 

[LoveGodForever]

Also be sure to go back and read post #4165.

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ol-2-14-17-who-do-we-believe-god-man-209.html

Everything you said in that post and all your posts after were shown through God's WORD not to be true here CLICK ME

 

[Dan_473]

The average Christian actually has NO idea what Adventists believe, and they exploit that - just as is demonstrated on this forum currently.
Why don't you go and take a look at the website prominently advertised by LGF called The Beastmark is Coming

i did look at LGF's website a while back

but i didn't see an indication that it was an official sda website

 

[graceNpeace]

i did look at LGF's website a while back

but i didn't see an indication that it was an official sda website

I certainly did not say that it was....
However the web is replete with good data on SDA doctrine, as well as the history of how those doctrines came to be - varies between comedy and tragedy with no common sense or exegesis involved!

 

[gb9]

i did look at LGF's website a while back

but i didn't see an indication that it was an official sda website

just do some quick research on ellen white. you will quickly see where lovesabbathforever gets his junk from.

 

[MarcR]

Blotting out the handwriting that recorded our offences means they were scrubbed out, eradicated, done away with, do not exist, so therefore can never be remembered against us anymore, because they are lost, forgotten, and gone into the sea of His forgetfulness.

Saturday is simply a Jewish custom, based on the Jewish calendar which is erroneous.

Erroneous on what basis?

 

[Dan_473]

I certainly did not say that it was....
However the web is replete with good data on SDA doctrine, as well as the history of how those doctrines came to be - varies between comedy and tragedy with no common sense or exegesis involved!

thanks for the info

mailmandan had posted a link earlier that had some good references

Bible Truth Versus Adventist Truth - Mark of the Beast

 

[graceNpeace]

Lets go back to yesterday's discussion.

LGF claimed yesterday that Abraham had full knowledge of the Torah, observed all its statutes, including the sacrificial laws and the Sabbath!
When I pressed him for proof of this extraordinary claim, after several false starts, he eventually posted posted an answer on another different thread to the one I was posting on...

In this post he made a further extraordinary claim that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, mentioned in Genesis chapters 2 and 3 actually represented the Torah and when Adam and his wife actually partook of the fruit of the said tree that somehow this meant that they had now received the Torah....

Gen 2:16-17 NKJV
"16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”"

Gen 3:1-7 NKJV
"Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?”2 And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; 3 but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.’”
4 Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings."

Gen 3:9-12 NKJV
"9 Then the Lord God called to Adam and said to him, “Where are you?”10 So he said, “I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself.”
11 And He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you that you should not eat?”
12 Then the man said, “The woman whom You gave to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I ate.”"

Gen 3:22-24 NKJV
"22 Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— 23 therefore the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken. 24 So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life."

Above are all the texts in Genesis chapters 2 and 3 that reference the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, even tangentially!

Now LGF has stated confidently, arrogantly actually, that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil represents the Torah.
He has also stated, practically in every post he types that he is "sola scriptura".
Even today, after yesterdays events where he could NOT show FROM SCRIPTURE that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, in fact, represents the Torah, he is still loudly parroting that only he knows the word of God, that only he is faithful to the word of God.

So, given all the extraordinary claims he makes about Scripture and his "sola scriptura" approach it should not be hard for him to directly and explicitly prove this amazing claim that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil does represent the Torah.

So, MR SOLA SCRIPTURA, please dazzle us with your undoubted expertise and Biblical knowledge and show the direct and explicit proof............................................................

 

[LoveGodForever]

thanks for the infomailmandan had posted a link earlier that had some good references
Bible Truth Versus Adventist Truth - Mark of the Beast

I would suggest you read your bible for yourself rather then turning to someone elses interpretation of it. There is a test to know if someone is following God or not and if someone is a false teacher and God's WORD clearly describes who his people are and who they are not.

Only God's WORD is true and we shoulf believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God.

FALSE TEACHERS; WOLVES in SHEEPS CLOTHING?

Who do they point you to? Jesus (the WORD of GOD) or the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God (word of website over the word of God)?

SIN is the transgression of God's LAW (1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7; 3:20; James 2:8-12). Those wos CONTINUE IN SIN do not KNOW him who calls them in LOVE to LOVE another.

Many will come to him on that day saying; Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess to them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work SIN (iniquity) (Matthew 7:21-23)

They had a form of Godliness but denied God's power of salvation from SIN (1 Tim 3:1-5) and did not KNOW him

HOW DO YOU KNOW IF YOU KNOW GOD?

1 John 2
3, And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4, He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3
3, And every man that has this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure.
4, Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5, And you know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6, Whoever stays in him sins not: whoever sins has not seen him, neither known him.
7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8, He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9, Whoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10, In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

...................

WHO ARE GOD'S PEOPLE?

Revelation 12
17, And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ

Revelation 14
12, Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

...................

WHO ARE THOSE THAT RECEIVE ETERNAL LIFE?

Revelation 22
14, Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

...................

WHAT IS GRACE FOR?

Romans 1
5, By whom we have received GRACE and apostleship, FOR OBEDIENCE TO THE FAITH among all nations, for his name.

Romans 6
1, What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. 2, How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

...................

DOES FAITH ABOLISH GOD'S LAW?

Romans 3
31, Do we then ABOLISH THE LAW THROUGH FAITH? GOD FORBID: YES, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW.

...................

WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO THOSE WHO CONTINUE IN SIN ONCE THEY RECEIVE A KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH?

Hebrews 10
26, For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins,
27, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Indeed, those who CONTINUE IN SIN will not enter the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

 

[gb9]

I would suggest you read your bible for yourself rather then turning to someone elses interpretation of it. There is a test to know if someone is following God or not and if someone is a false teacher and God's WORD clearly describes who his people are and who they are not.

Only God's WORD is true and we shoulf believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God.

FALSE TEACHERS; WOLVES in SHEEPS CLOTHING?

Who do they point you to? Jesus (the WORD of GOD) or the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God (word of website over the word of God)?

SIN is the transgression of God's LAW (1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7; 3:20; James 2:8-12). Those wos CONTINUE IN SIN do not KNOW him who calls them in LOVE to LOVE another.

Many will come to him on that day saying; Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess to them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work SIN (iniquity) (Matthew 7:21-23)

They had a form of Godliness but denied God's power of salvation from SIN (1 Tim 3:1-5) and did not KNOW him

HOW DO YOU KNOW IF YOU KNOW GOD?

1 John 2
3, And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4, He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 3
3, And every man that has this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure.
4, Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5, And you know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6, Whoever stays in him sins not: whoever sins has not seen him, neither known him.
7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8, He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9, Whoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10, In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

...................

WHO ARE GOD'S PEOPLE?

Revelation 12
17, And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ

Revelation 14
12, Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

...................

WHO ARE THOSE THAT RECEIVE ETERNAL LIFE?

Revelation 22
14, Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

...................

WHAT IS GRACE FOR?

Romans 1
5, By whom we have received GRACE and apostleship, FOR OBEDIENCE TO THE FAITH among all nations, for his name.

Romans 6
1, What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. 2, How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

...................

DOES FAITH ABOLISH GOD'S LAW?

Romans 3
31, Do we then ABOLISH THE LAW THROUGH FAITH? GOD FORBID: YES, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW.

...................

WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO THOSE WHO CONTINUE IN SIN ONCE THEY RECEIVE A KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH?

Hebrews 10
26, For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins,
27, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

Indeed, those who CONTINUE IN SIN will not enter the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.

.................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

as usual, you stop short of 1st John chapter 3 saying the commands are believe in the name of the Son and love one another. not Sabbath.

you talk about not sinning while at the same time practicing deceit. no creditability.