GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

[lightbearer]

So God's grace is not sufficient to save the sinner!

You have a fake god.

Your post makes no sense considering it was in response to....

Originally Posted by LoveGodForever

Now you are making things up PS,

All through this thread and else where it has only ever been stated that.........

We are ONLY SAVED by GRACE through FAITH and NOT of OURSELVES it is a GIFT of GOD and NOT of WORKS lest any man should boast.

 

[beta]

In other words our goal is just NOT TO BREAK THE RULES!!!!!!
(Whatever those are)
Oh brother......

where in scripture does God advocate disobedience and lawlessness to His Word ? 2Tim 2v5. Mat 7v21-23. We had better keep to the rules HE set ! Jesus own example was obedience unto death !!!

 

[gb9]

Your post makes no sense considering it was in response to....

l.g.f. states that we are saved by grace. then he goes on to explain ( as do you ) that if one does not keep the Sabbath , then one is not saved, nullifying what he said in the beginning.

we see right through that double-speak.

 

[gb9]

where in scripture does God advocate disobedience and lawlessness to His Word ? 2Tim 2v5. Mat 7v21-23. We had better keep to the rules HE set ! Jesus own example was obedience unto death !!!

see folks, right here- the sda/ Hebrew roots mindset- keep the rules to be saved. works salvationism.

 

[graceNpeace]

you don't think we should obey God ? Heb 5v9. follow in Jesus' steps ? how will you ever be conformed to HIS image if you don't ?

Considering that the entire thread is to try and convince people to observe the Sabbath - then the answer on that specific is most definitely no!
The Sabbath is part of a covenant (Sinaitic) to which I was never a part (not born a Jew) and the New covenant to which I am a part has abrogated the covenant (Sinaitic) in which, not only, is the Sabbath commanded, but it is also the sign of that covenant (Sinaitic).

As for the rest of the commandments there are ample New Testament texts that explicitly confirm that the principles of those commandments are confirmed for New covenant believers.

No such luck for the Sabbath!!!!!

 

[beta]

I have this personal philosophy, I wouldn't teach it to others, but it is this.

"Harm no one, help those you can, bring honour and glory God in all you do, then your life, in each and every day, will be Holy unto the Lord."

Live life like that and you won't break any of the commandments.

well that is a good philosophy and should help you to also keep God's Sabbath Holy...it's what He wants !!!

 

[mailmandan]

Considering that the entire thread is to try and convince people to observe the Sabbath - then the answer on that specific is most definitely no!
The Sabbath is part of a covenant (Sinaitic) to which I was never a part (not born a Jew) and the New covenant to which I am a part has abrogated the covenant (Sinaitic) in which, not only, is the Sabbath commanded, but it is also the sign of that covenant (Sinaitic).

As for the rest of the commandments there are ample New Testament texts that explicitly confirm that the principles of those commandments are confirmed for New covenant believers.

No such luck for the Sabbath!!!!!

Amen! Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel (Exodus 16:23, 29; 31:12-18; 35:1-3; Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3, 32; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13; Amos 8:5; Nehemiah 10:31) that is not binding on Christians under the New Covenant.

*Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

References for principles of 9 of the 10 commandments are reiterated under the New Covenant, yet the command to keep the Sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the New Covenant.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 5:12
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3

 

[lightbearer]

He is preaching salvation by works. (Law keeping)

Amen! He is preaching salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works." His doctrine of salvation is a subtle mixture of law and grace that is a perversion of the Gospel. (Galatians 1:6-9)

No he is not.

He preaches, the keeping; the guarding of what has been placed in our hearts, minds and mouths.

He preaches, that we are a new creation in Christ Jesus; old things have passed away all things are new and of GOD.

He preaches, we are dead nevertheless we live. Yet not us but Christ liveth in us. And the Life we now live in the flesh we live by the Faith of the Son of GOD.

He preaches, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ;(the Word; the Law) down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (the Word; the Law) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (Christ; the Law) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of Faith, which we preach; For GOD has said this is the covenant that I will make with them. I will put my Law; my Word; MY Christ in their hearts and in their minds. The Saints; These are they that Keep (guard that which I have put in their hearts and minds. MY Commandments; MY Laws MY Word; MY Christ. Because they have the Faith of Christ; having put on Christ.
(Rom 10:6-8)

 

[graceNpeace]

Amen! Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel (Exodus 16:23, 29; 31:12-18; 35:1-3; Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3, 32; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13; Amos 8:5; Nehemiah 10:31) that is not binding on Christians under the New Covenant.

*Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

References for principles of 9 of the 10 commandments are reiterated under the New Covenant, yet the command to keep the Sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the New Covenant.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 5:12
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3

And there is the detail!!!!

 

[PS]

well that is a good philosophy and should help you to also keep God's Sabbath Holy...it's what He wants !!!

I think if I live like that, then every day is a Sabbath day.

 

[beta]

l.g.f. states that we are saved by grace. then he goes on to explain ( as do you ) that if one does not keep the Sabbath , then one is not saved, nullifying what he said in the beginning.

we see right through that double-speak.

I think you misunderstand...we are saved by GRACE but works (good works of God) must follow because we are being changed, we need to adapt to a NEW life which obviously requires new ways of doing things. Scripture tells us to be DOERS of the Word...so there will be works (but not our old evil ways).

 

[beta]

I think if I live like that, then every day is a Sabbath day.

why must you meddle ? just keep the Sabbath Day Holy as GOD requests...no adding to or taking away !

as long as you insist on your Own way you show disobedience and rebellion to God. BOW your knees and submit..carnal man ! Rom8v7.

 

[blue_ladybug]

He's not meddling. We SHOULD treat every day as a sabbath day.. Not only Saturday or Sunday, or whenever the actual sabbath is...

why must you meddle ? just keep the Sabbath Day Holy as GOD requests...no adding to or taking away !

as long as you insist on your Own way you show disobedience and rebellion to God. BOW your knees and submit..carnal man ! Rom8v7.

 

[lightbearer]

every day is a Sabbath day.

That is not in the Holy Writ. To add or assert that it is; is to add to the Word of GOD. That is not our place.

 

[graceNpeace]

I think you misunderstand...we are saved by GRACE but works (good works of God) must follow because we are being changed, we need to adapt to a NEW life which obviously requires new ways of doing things. Scripture tells us to be DOERS of the Word...so there will be works (but not our old evil ways).

The "but" says it all!

SDA doctrine, the Mark of the Beast (Sunday worship), Seal of God (Sabbath worship)
Mark of the Beast - all with the mark are condemned!

Bottom line - the discriminator between the lost and the saved is what day you worship!!!!
(According to SDA doctrine, that is).

Yet, we know that the Seal is the Holy Spirit, "30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption." Eph 4:30
NOT what day of the week we worship!!!!!!!!!

And how is this achieved: "8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them."

Furthermore, "14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together." Rom 8:14-17

If Sabbath worship was as crucial to salvation as is so strongly asserted by Adventists one would think that all the New Testament writings would be absolutely replete with dozens of explicit warnings not to neglect this crucial observance!
Yet they are just not there.................................

 

[PS]

why must you meddle ? just keep the Sabbath Day Holy as GOD requests...no adding to or taking away !

as long as you insist on your Own way you show disobedience and rebellion to God. BOW your knees and submit..carnal man ! Rom8v7.

Because I think your lot go over the top and here is why.

Ancient Rabbis taught that on the Sabbath, a man could not carry something in his right hand or in his left hand, across his chest or on his shoulder. But he could carry something with the back of his hand, his foot, his elbow, or in his ear, his hair, or in the hem of his shirt, or in his shoe or sandal. Or, on the Sabbath, you Israelites were forbidden to tie a knot - except, a woman could tie a knot in her girdle. So, if a bucket of water had to be raised from a well, an Israelite could not tie a rope to the bucket, but a woman could tie her girdle to the bucket and pull it up from the well.

In observant Jewish homes today, one cannot turn on a light, a stove, or a switch on the Sabbath. It is forbidden to drive a certain distance or to make a telephone call - all carefully regulated by traditions seeking to spell out the law exactly.

These are man-made rules purporting to be from God, and I think your religion is a load of rubbish and I wish you would give up posting such nonsense.

 

[PS]

That is not in the Holy Writ. To add or assert that it is; is to add to the Word of GOD. That is not our place.

Then keep one day holy and six days a week we live an unholy life.

I think you might have summed up Judaism pretty accurately.

 

[mailmandan]

The "but" says it all!

SDA doctrine, the Mark of the Beast (Sunday worship), Seal of God (Sabbath worship)
Mark of the Beast - all with the mark are condemned!

Bottom line - the discriminator between the lost and the saved is what day you worship!!!!
(According to SDA doctrine, that is).

Yet, we know that the Seal is the Holy Spirit, "30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption." Eph 4:30
NOT what day of the week we worship!!!!!!!!!

And how is this achieved: "8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them."

Furthermore, "14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together." Rom 8:14-17

If Sabbath worship was as crucial to salvation as is so strongly asserted by Adventists one would think that all the New Testament writings would be absolutely replete with dozens of explicit warnings not to neglect this crucial observance!
Yet they are just not there.................................

Seventh-day Adventists do teach that the near the end of time the "mark of the best" of Revelation 14 will be placed upon those who worship on Sunday instead of Saturday. Such a ludicrous doctrine!

Bible Truth Versus Adventist Truth - Mark of the Beast

 

[lightbearer]

References for principles of 9 of the 10 commandments are reiterated under the New Covenant, yet the command to keep the Sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the New Covenant.

That is not true. The Seventh Day, keeping of the Sabbath is reiterated in Hebrews chapter 4.

When one experiences the Gospel rest they cease from their own work as GOD did from HIS. GOD was not ever a non Spiritual BEING as we are outside of Christ. For GOD is Spirit. So HE did not enter into some spiritual rest; HE is our rest in Christ Jesus. Hebrews four is a call to those experiencing the Gospel to cease from their own work as GOD did from His. Which was done on the Seventh Day of the week; which is the Sabbath.

Let's take a look at Hebrews chapter four.

1) Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us (the people of the writers day and us) of entering into his rest (the Gospel), any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel (His Rest) preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest (His Rest; the Gospel), as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest (the Gospel; the rest we have when Christ Jesus is our Life): although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

4) For HE (GOD) spake in a certain place (the giving of the Commandments on Mt. Sinia) of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

5,6) And in this place again, (GOD speaks of the Seventh Day) If they shall enter into my rest (the Gospel; the rest we have when Jesus is our life). Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein (the Gospel), and they to whom it was first preached entered not in (the Gospel) because of unbelief (obstinacy, obstinate opposition to the divine will):

If we receive the Gospel Rest in Christ; GOD is calling us to the Word that HE spoke of of the Seventh Day on Mt Sinia whichis the keeping of the Sabbath.

The Gospel; our Rest in HIM and HE in us enables us now to partake of the Seventh Day Sabbath's hallowedness.

7) Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day (Now), after so long a time; as it is said, To day (now) if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

Dabid's (beloved's) Word's though GOD where and are a call to repentance; GOD's Rest in Christ. For unto us was the Gospel (His Rest) preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

For (because of the word just shared in Psalm) if Jesus (Joshua leading them into Canaan) had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day (constant call to the Gospel).

The leading them into the promise land was a symbol of what they already had available to them. After the forty years of roaming and seeing GOD's loving and guiding hand they were still only willing to receive the physical blessings and not the Spiritual; HIS Rest in Christ.

9) There remaineth (present tense) therefore a Sabbath keeping to the people of God.
This verse brings us back to verse 4 And in this place again, (GOD speaks of the Seventh Day) If they shall enter into my rest (the Gospel; the rest we have when Jesus is our life).

10) For he that is entered into his Rest (the Gospel), he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

"As" is direct Comparison. There is no way around that. So it is A Ceasing from work like GOD did from HIS. It is the calling to those who entered in their rest (the Gospel rest in Jesus in GOD) to cease from their work AS GOD did. GOD ceased from HIS PHYSICAL work on the Seventh Day. GOD is already and forever Spirit. So HE did not enter enter into any Spiritual rest we do. He is our Spiritual rest. So we in harmony with Christ and the FATHER cease from our work on the Seventh Day as HE did. The Day HE hallowed (set apart) and blessed.

So what are our instructions in regards to keeping the Sabbath?

Because we have received the Gospel; the new heart and mind through Christ Jesus; old things having passed away, all things being new and of GOD. We Simply cease from our own works as GOD did from HIS. He simply rested from work; so we rest as HE did.

(Heb 4:1-10 KJV)

 

[Dan_473]

So you do believe God's WORD that says the OLD COVENANT is made up of.......

1. God's 10 Commandments
2, The MOSIAC BOOK of the COVENANT ?

e.g.

EXODUS 34 [28] And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the COVENANT, the TEN COMMANDMENTS.

DEUTERONOMY 10:[2] And I will write on the tables the words that were in the first tables which you broke, and you shall put them in the ark.

..............

EXODUS 24 [7] And he took the BOOK OF THE COVENANT, and read in the hearing of the people: and they said, All that the LORD has said will we do, and be obedient.

DEUTERONOMY 31 [25], That Moses commanded the Levites, who bore the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying,[26], Take this book of the law, and put it by the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against you.

if the book of the covenant here

Exodus 24: 7. And he took the book of the covenant

is what Moses wrote here

Exodus 24: 4. And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD

then the book of the covenant would contain the ten commandments