Cain and Abel's offering

[7777pinacled]

I agree with your sentiment.
The severity of evil that grew after, is no laughing matter.
Ive witnessed many a luciferians try and speak as if cain were an object of pity.
They are the same liars and sorcerors who say all the Disciples were murdered(martyred). They does this to placate and justify the wicked.


actually in Jude, cain is identified as a wandering star.
a murderer.
compared with the rebellion of korah whom where swallowed by the earth.

And even more so compared to balaam, who bribes and lures people to Curse Avraham and even Yisrael also.

They encourage the wicked to spill blood.

or as has been constantly flooded toward the younger generations, they provoke the Children to wrath.

hence a two fold son of perdition

 

[reneweddaybyday]

The idea would be that as time went by souls fell further and further away from God until they had to start calling on the name of the Lord Gen 4:26.

Cain and Abel were in "a presence" of God, but not like Adam and Eve were in the garden.

By the time Noah came the human souls had completely fallen away from Jehovah worship.

In agreement that Adam and Eve had a very special relationship with God before the fall. Also in agreement that mankind had fallen away from God to the extent that only Noah, his wife, his sons and their wives were the only ones who escaped judgment.

And when I stated that Cain knew God, I in no way wanted to imply that Cain was a believer as Abel was. It is totally made clear in Scripture that Cain was of that wicked one (1 John 3:12).

Cain was "religious" ... Cain tried to approach God, not as God had instructed, but in his own way. When his way did not grant him favor from God and when Cain saw that Abel had approached God in the manner God had said tand Abel was accepted by God, Cain became hot with anger.

However, his anger was directed at Abel. Cain should have been angry with himself. Rather than beg forgiveness from God for his disobedience, Cain killed Abel. We see the same thing to this very day.


One of the things I see in Gen 4 is just how far God will reach out to the wicked in order that the wicked would turn from their ways. That is God's desire ... that the wicked would turn back to Him. Ezekiel 33:11 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live.


Truly those who turn their backs on God are without excuse.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Cain had doubts about an unseen entity (God), and thereby sacrificed his waste produce to an entity he believed did not know, or could see that he was burning his garbage in reverence to this hypothetical unseen entity. Cain thusly did wrong, and in some form, the Lord in Genesis 4:7 let Cain know that he did wrong with his trash produce offering.

Cain was disobedient and when he saw that Abel's offering had been accepted by God, he threw a tantrum and killed his brother. Then begged God for mercy he was not willing to afford to his murdered brother.


Genesis 4:13-14 And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear. Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.

 

[louis]

Cain was disobedient and when he saw that Abel's offering had been accepted by God, he threw a tantrum and killed his brother. Then begged God for mercy he was not willing to afford to his murdered brother.


Genesis 4:13-14 And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear. Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.

Cain and Able were people prior to any laws given to man. They woule therefore have both been exempt from any sort of requirements. How then was Cain disobedient to God?
Why do you think Able's sacrifice was superior to Cain's sacrifice?

 

[dcontroversal]

Good Day!


I respectfully disagree. One can give only what they have to give (The Lord gave it)... The Lord doesn't WANT anyone's offering when he or she has an alt with his or her brethren....Cain has a "heart" condition, no repentance.
-------
Luke 21:1 And he looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury.
Luke 21:2 And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites.
Luke 21:3 And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all:
Luke 21:4 For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.

The Lord doesn't care about money, its all His.

"Heart" condition.

1Sam 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
1Sam 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.
----------
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.


God Bless!!

Thanks, your cited example has nothing to do with Cain and Abel's offering.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Cain and Able were people prior to any laws given to man.

Laws were codified at Mt Sinai. But commandments were given at creation and until the time of Moses. Adam and Eve were give ONE EASY COMMANDMENT and they blew it.

They would therefore have both been exempt from any sort of requirements. How then was Cain disobedient to God? Why do you think Abel's sacrifice was superior to Cain's sacrifice?

You are making a HUGE ASSUMPTION here. Just because we are not provided with all the details does not mean that God did not instruct Adam and Eve about proper sacrifices, or that Adam and Eve did not instruct Cain and Abel. The underlying premise is that both the brothers knew exactly what God expected, but Cain CHOSE TO do his own will and create his own idea of a satisfactory sacrifice. We should never assume that there is not much more to these narratives than meets the eye. We should also keep in mind that God gave us a very succinct account of just about everything. As the apostle John said, that had he reported on everything which Christ had done, the world could not contain the books that would need to be written.

 

[stonesoffire]

And I just read another thought concerning this, that Abel gave himself to God in the offering, rather than Cain just an offering.

Perhaps its all these things?

 

[louis]

Laws were codified at Mt Sinai. But commandments were given at creation and until the time of Moses. Adam and Eve were give ONE EASY COMMANDMENT and they blew it.

You are making a HUGE ASSUMPTION here. Just because we are not provided with all the details does not mean that God did not instruct Adam and Eve about proper sacrifices, or that Adam and Eve did not instruct Cain and Abel. The underlying premise is that both the brothers knew exactly what God expected, but Cain CHOSE TO do his own will and create his own idea of a satisfactory sacrifice. We should never assume that there is not much more to these narratives than meets the eye. We should also keep in mind that God gave us a very succinct account of just about everything. As the apostle John said, that had he reported on everything which Christ had done, the world could not contain the books that would need to be written.

Cain brought his sacrifice before did Able. As such there then would have to be reason why the Lord was displeased with Cains sacrifice and pleased with Able's sacrifice which followed.
Rather than make assumptions about disobedience to something not specified, might not common sense reasoning better apply?

Genesis 4:3 [FONT=&quot]And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Lord[/FONT][FONT=&quot].[/FONT][FONT=&quot]4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the Lord had respect unto Abel and to his offering:[/FONT]

 

[Gabriel2020]

The only reason God was displeased with Cain was because he did not bring the first and the best fruits, but fruits he did not want himself .

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Cain and Able were people prior to any laws given to man. They woule therefore have both been exempt from any sort of requirements. How then was Cain disobedient to God?

In Hebrews 11:4 we read By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

We know from Rom 10:17 that faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.

How could Abel offer anything to God by faith if he had not heard the Word of God?

Abel and Cain must have heard God's Word, either from God Himself or, more probable, Adam and Eve taught them.

Why do you think Able's sacrifice was superior to Cain's sacrifice?

Because Heb 11:4 tells us Abel offered a more excellent sacrifice than Cain.

 

[abcdef]

In agreement that Adam and Eve had a very special relationship with God before the fall. Also in agreement that mankind had fallen away from God to the extent that only Noah, his wife, his sons and their wives were the only ones who escaped judgment.

And when I stated that Cain knew God, I in no way wanted to imply that Cain was a believer as Abel was. It is totally made clear in Scripture that Cain was of that wicked one (1 John 3:12).

I think that Cain was a believer, but he was in a state of rebellion. James 2:19, The devils believe, but are in rebellion against God.

Cain was "religious" ... Cain tried to approach God, not as God had instructed, but in his own way. When his way did not grant him favor from God and when Cain saw that Abel had approached God in the manner God had said tand Abel was accepted by God, Cain became hot with anger.

However, his anger was directed at Abel. Cain should have been angry with himself. Rather than beg forgiveness from God for his disobedience, Cain killed Abel. We see the same thing to this very day.


One of the things I see in Gen 4 is just how far God will reach out to the wicked in order that the wicked would turn from their ways. That is God's desire ... that the wicked would turn back to Him. Ezekiel 33:11 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live.


Truly those who turn their backs on God are without excuse.

Adam and Eve could have admitted and confessed their sins in repentance, but they hid instead, refusing to come to the light of God. Showing that darkness and fear had entered their minds.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The only reason God was displeased with Cain was because he did not bring the first and the best fruits, but fruits he did not want himself .

There is no evidence of this scenario in Scripture. In any event the only acceptable offering would have been the sacrifice of a lamb and the shedding of its blood. That is clear from Scripture. But Cain was under the influence of Satan, and was a wicked man.

Not as Cain, [who] was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous. (1 John 3:12).

 

[louis]

The only reason God was displeased with Cain was because he did not bring the first and the best fruits, but fruits he did not want himself .

Vey good, and just what I said. And the reason why Cain did not bring his best produce, was his lack of faith in the existence of an unseen superior entity to whom he would be wasting his best produce for, if God did not exist.

 

[louis]

There is no evidence of this scenario in Scripture. In any event the only acceptable offering would have been the sacrifice of a lamb and the shedding of its blood. That is clear from Scripture. But Cain was under the influence of Satan, and was a wicked man.

Not as Cain, [who] was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous. (1 John 3:12).

The Lord does not care about any type of material sacrifice, wether animal or vegetable; it is what is in the persons heart that matters.

Micah 6:6 [FONT=&quot]Wherewith shall I come before the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Lord[/FONT][FONT=&quot], and bow myself before the high God? shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves of a year old?[/FONT][FONT=&quot]7 Will the Lord be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the Lordrequire of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?[/FONT]

 

[Musicus]

The only reason God was displeased with Cain was because he did not bring the first and the best fruits, but fruits he did not want himself .

This is what was pointed out to me in another thread a few months ago. I think Cain knew he should have sacrificed his first and best and just didn't care. His heart was already primed for sin, and God told him so.

 

[dcontroversal]

I think that Cain was a believer, but he was in a state of rebellion. James 2:19, The devils believe, but are in rebellion against God.



Adam and Eve could have admitted and confessed their sins in repentance, but they hid instead, refusing to come to the light of God. Showing that darkness and fear had entered their minds.

Cain was never a believer.....called of that wicked one, and a murderer, and rejected God's call for repentance .....

 

[trofimus]

The information what was wrong is lost in the masoretic text.

In Septuagint, its said that Cain did not divided his things rightly .

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I think that Cain was a believer, but he was in a state of rebellion. James 2:19, The devils believe, but are in rebellion against God.

I do not think Cain was a believer.

In Gen 4:7, God's offer to Cain was rejected by Cain. Cain did not rule over his sin. He allowed sin to rule over him and ended up murdering his brother.

1 John 3:12 tells us Cain was of that wicked one

Jude 1:10-11 tells us that those who corrupt themselves ... have gone in the way of Cain

Adam and Eve could have admitted and confessed their sins in repentance, but they hid instead, refusing to come to the light of God. Showing that darkness and fear had entered their minds.

Adam and Eve taught their children the Word of God that they had heard from God. They taught Abel. They taught Seth. Did they teach their grandchildren and later generations? Probably.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Vey good, and just what I said. And the reason why Cain did not bring his best produce, was his lack of faith in the existence of an unseen superior entity to whom he would be wasting his best produce for, if God did not exist.

If Cain did not believe God existed, why did he become so angry when Abel's offering was accepted? And why did he kill Abel? Pretty drastic measure to take if Cain didn't believe God existed.

 

[louis]

If Cain did not believe God existed, why did he become so angry when Abel's offering was accepted? And why did he kill Abel? Pretty drastic measure to take if Cain didn't believe God existed.

I said Cain was a doubter. This doubt is what caused Cain to offer his waste produce to an entity he wasn't sure was there.
When Cain saw his brother Able's smoke from his sacrifice ascend, while the smoke from his sacrifice did not ascend, Cain simply got jealous of his brother, and like a reasonless beast, slew his brother.
Had Cain believed in God, who is love according to 1 John 4:8 & 16, he would then not have slain his brother.