Cain and Abel's offering

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I see Human good vs Sacrificial good

Abel understood the blood (sacrifice)

Cain wanted to give his work (human good)

the problems with human good is is looks good. it appears to be right. It seems right, and it is hard to understand why it is bad, or not a good thing.

Thats why it is so easy to fall into its trap.
 
The Way of Cain

Jude 1:11"Woe unto them! (Concerning apostasy and apostates, the Holy Spirit says to them, Woe! for they have gone in the way of Cain (the type of a religious man who believes in God and religion, but after his own will, and who rejects Redemption by blood), and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward (the error of Balaam was that he was blind to the higher morality of the Cross, through which God maintains and enforces the authority and awful sanctions of His Law, so that He can be Just and the Justifier of the believing sinner; he loved the wages of unrighteousness in coveting the gifts of Balak [Num. 22:7, 17, 37; 24:11; II Pet. 2:15]), and perished in the gainsaying of Core (the gainsaying of this man was his rebellion against Aaron as God s appointed Priest; this was, in principle, a denial of the High Priesthood of Christ [Num., Chpt. 16])."

INTRO TO JUDE

In the little New Testament Book of Jude, the author spends the majority of his time describing false teachers, both their attitudes and actions. He warns the Believers of the First Century Church to beware of those who meet the descriptions given as they will greatly affect their Faith in a negative way. It seems that Jude had intended on giving a discourse in regard to the wonder and benefits of true Salvation, but as he began to write, the Holy Spirit interrupted his train of thought and sent him down another Path. That new Path was one in which Jude would exhort Believers to "earnestly contend for the Faith." He is greatly concerned for the welfare of the Saints and wants them to both recognize and remove themselves from any teachers who would fit his stated description.

RECOGNIZING THE WAY OF CAIN

What is the way of Cain? Literally the word "way" is "hodos" in the Greek and means "a road." However, when it is applied to a person, as it is in this Text, it indicates a commitment to a certain direction, a way of life, a belief system, or an approach to relationship with God. Therefore, Cain s belief system, his approach to relationship with God is what is being discussed.

By searching out the Third and Fourth Chapters of Genesis, we find that God had specifically laid out the means by which man could stay in relationship with Him after the Fall. He promised that the "seed of the woman" (a Redeemer) would come (see Gen. 3:15) and resolve the dilemma created by the First Family s sin. Many scholars believe that at the same time God Himself instituted the idea of blood sacrifice when He clothed Adam and Eve with the skins of slain animals (indicating a blood sacrifice) in Genesis 3:21.

When Chapter 4 opens we find that a sacrificial system, with a specific routine had been given to Adam and Eve and that they had trained their sons, Cain and Able, to participate in the appropriate way in order to maintain a relationship with God. It is very obvious that a blood sacrifice (a Type of Christ s Atoning Work on the Cross) was what they were to participate in, but at a certain point in time, Cain decided that he was going to change the pattern of sacrifice given to a way that pleased him. He would offer to God that which he had produced from the ground. Being a farmer, or one that was "a tiller of the ground," Cain decided to offer the bloodless sacrifice of the work of his hands. God refused to receive his offering, even as he refuses to accept any way other than the Cross as the means to Salvation or progressive growth. God cannot accept a bloodless sacrifice. Neither can He accept the tawdry work of man s devices as a means of Deliverance from a besetting sin or growth.

The Way of Both Salvation and Sanctification

The Church must remain true to God s Plan regarding both Redemption and growth. There is no other plan outlined in Scripture other than the Plan of Faith and Grace. Man places his Faith in the Finished Work of Christ and receives the Grace of God in order to qualify for the Holy Spirit s Work of Regeneration and inner Sanctification. There is no other way to be Saved. There is no other Biblical way to grow Spiritually. With our Faith properly placed in that which is pleasing to God, the Holy Spirit becomes the Supernatural Sanctifying Agent that equips the Believer to overcome sin and helps us to experience the necessary changes in our heart. No other way will work. No other way is acceptable to God. While most of the Protestant Church still believes (I pray that this is a true statement) in the Cross as the Way of Salvation, they have opted for the ways of man when it comes to the progressive Sanctification of the Believer. No amount of works, Biblical or not, can ever bring the Believer into true Spiritual Growth. If our Faith is not in the Cross as the means by which we are sanctified, we are traveling in the age-old error of Cain. We have rejected God s Plan and like Cain, we have come up with one of our own. As with Cain, God will reject our efforts, no matter how zealous and honest we may be in our attempt to do the right thing. Ours must be the obedience to the Faith which brings the produce of the Spirit. The end result of this way is Holiness and Righteousness. It brings the product of good works. It brings a life changed and the Gospel lived and proclaimed. Faith in any other way other than Faith in the Cross for either Salvation or progressive Sanctification is the way of Cain.

THE PROPER REACTION TO THE WAY OF CAIN

The only proper reaction to those who preach and promote the way of Cain is separation. The Believer must separate from every way or means of Salvation outside of Faith in the Cross. The Believer must separate from every device, pattern, scheme, or routine of man designed to bring about progressive growth, other than Faith in the Cross. A failure to do so will birth the heart of Cain into the heart of the Believer. And like Cain of old, you will find yourself attempting to kill or destroy Abel, whose Faith was in nothing but the blood sacrifice, a Type of the Cross.

Pastor Loren Larson - JSM
 
I stood back for a moment and put aside all of what was written and focused on the Lord for a moment.
just two men, brothers in fact.
so what were they truly offering to the Lord?
I was reminded of what our Lord said about the heart.,"For out of the Heart........"


The altar and the sabbath

[FONT=&quot]See, the Word of God is alive! It is at work and is sharper than any double-edged sword — it cuts right through to where soul meets spirit and joints meet marrow, and it is quick to judge the inner reflections and attitudes of the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]heart[/FONT][FONT=&quot].
[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]13 Before God, nothing created is hidden, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of him to whom we must render an account.[/FONT]
 
walknlight said:
Good Day!



Nothing was wrong with either offering.

Cain has a "heart" condition.

God Bless...
Click to expand...
Except on little thing...God required blood and vegies don't have blood only lambs have the required blood.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Hebrews 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

Abel offered a more excellent sacrifice than Cain by faith.

In order for any person to walk by faith, he or she must hear God's Word [Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.] So we now know that both Abel and Cain had heard the Word of God. If they had not heard the Word of God, their actions would not have been through obedience or disobedience.

What we do know is that Abel heard and acted in accordance with what he had heard from God.

What we also know is that Cain heard and did not act in accordance with what he had heard from God.

Cain's actions do not mean he did not believe in God. Cain's actions indicate that he sought his own way to approach God. This is manmade religion on Cain's part. Manmade religion continues to this very day.

God gives specific instruction as to how man is to approach Him. We either accept His way and enjoy the fruit of close fellowship with our Heavenly Father or we make up our own way and end up far, far away from Him, stumbling in the darkness of our own making.

I love that God has given us His Word so that we may hear from Him and come close to Him. Not the easiest road in this world which is filled with nonsense and foolishness which we must wade through. But when we seek God with our whole heart, He will reach out and show us the way to Him. What a loving Heavenly Father we have and what a loving Lord and Savior we have, Who came and showed us the Way.
 
notuptome said:
Except on little thing...God required blood and vegies don't have blood only lambs have the required blood.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Click to expand...

We don't really know whether other offerings weren't acceptable at this time...but we do know this...

Heb 11:4　 By faith Abel offered to God a more acceptable sacrifice than Cain, through which he was commended as righteous, God commending him by accepting his gifts. And through his faith, though he died, he still speaks.　

Apparently, Cain didn't offer in faith. The heart.


 
Last edited:
MessageOfTheCross said:
The Way of Cain

Jude 1:11"Woe unto them! (Concerning apostasy and apostates, the Holy Spirit says to them, Woe! for they have gone in the way of Cain (the type of a religious man who believes in God and religion, but after his own will, and who rejects Redemption by blood), and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward (the error of Balaam was that he was blind to the higher morality of the Cross, through which God maintains and enforces the authority and awful sanctions of His Law, so that He can be Just and the Justifier of the believing sinner; he loved the wages of unrighteousness in coveting the gifts of Balak [Num. 22:7, 17, 37; 24:11; II Pet. 2:15]), and perished in the gainsaying of Core (the gainsaying of this man was his rebellion against Aaron as God s appointed Priest; this was, in principle, a denial of the High Priesthood of Christ [Num., Chpt. 16])."

INTRO TO JUDE

In the little New Testament Book of Jude, the author spends the majority of his time describing false teachers, both their attitudes and actions. He warns the Believers of the First Century Church to beware of those who meet the descriptions given as they will greatly affect their Faith in a negative way. It seems that Jude had intended on giving a discourse in regard to the wonder and benefits of true Salvation, but as he began to write, the Holy Spirit interrupted his train of thought and sent him down another Path. That new Path was one in which Jude would exhort Believers to "earnestly contend for the Faith." He is greatly concerned for the welfare of the Saints and wants them to both recognize and remove themselves from any teachers who would fit his stated description.

RECOGNIZING THE WAY OF CAIN

What is the way of Cain? Literally the word "way" is "hodos" in the Greek and means "a road." However, when it is applied to a person, as it is in this Text, it indicates a commitment to a certain direction, a way of life, a belief system, or an approach to relationship with God. Therefore, Cain s belief system, his approach to relationship with God is what is being discussed.

By searching out the Third and Fourth Chapters of Genesis, we find that God had specifically laid out the means by which man could stay in relationship with Him after the Fall. He promised that the "seed of the woman" (a Redeemer) would come (see Gen. 3:15) and resolve the dilemma created by the First Family s sin. Many scholars believe that at the same time God Himself instituted the idea of blood sacrifice when He clothed Adam and Eve with the skins of slain animals (indicating a blood sacrifice) in Genesis 3:21.

When Chapter 4 opens we find that a sacrificial system, with a specific routine had been given to Adam and Eve and that they had trained their sons, Cain and Able, to participate in the appropriate way in order to maintain a relationship with God. It is very obvious that a blood sacrifice (a Type of Christ s Atoning Work on the Cross) was what they were to participate in, but at a certain point in time, Cain decided that he was going to change the pattern of sacrifice given to a way that pleased him. He would offer to God that which he had produced from the ground. Being a farmer, or one that was "a tiller of the ground," Cain decided to offer the bloodless sacrifice of the work of his hands. God refused to receive his offering, even as he refuses to accept any way other than the Cross as the means to Salvation or progressive growth. God cannot accept a bloodless sacrifice. Neither can He accept the tawdry work of man s devices as a means of Deliverance from a besetting sin or growth.

The Way of Both Salvation and Sanctification

The Church must remain true to God s Plan regarding both Redemption and growth. There is no other plan outlined in Scripture other than the Plan of Faith and Grace. Man places his Faith in the Finished Work of Christ and receives the Grace of God in order to qualify for the Holy Spirit s Work of Regeneration and inner Sanctification. There is no other way to be Saved. There is no other Biblical way to grow Spiritually. With our Faith properly placed in that which is pleasing to God, the Holy Spirit becomes the Supernatural Sanctifying Agent that equips the Believer to overcome sin and helps us to experience the necessary changes in our heart. No other way will work. No other way is acceptable to God. While most of the Protestant Church still believes (I pray that this is a true statement) in the Cross as the Way of Salvation, they have opted for the ways of man when it comes to the progressive Sanctification of the Believer. No amount of works, Biblical or not, can ever bring the Believer into true Spiritual Growth. If our Faith is not in the Cross as the means by which we are sanctified, we are traveling in the age-old error of Cain. We have rejected God s Plan and like Cain, we have come up with one of our own. As with Cain, God will reject our efforts, no matter how zealous and honest we may be in our attempt to do the right thing. Ours must be the obedience to the Faith which brings the produce of the Spirit. The end result of this way is Holiness and Righteousness. It brings the product of good works. It brings a life changed and the Gospel lived and proclaimed. Faith in any other way other than Faith in the Cross for either Salvation or progressive Sanctification is the way of Cain.

THE PROPER REACTION TO THE WAY OF CAIN

The only proper reaction to those who preach and promote the way of Cain is separation. The Believer must separate from every way or means of Salvation outside of Faith in the Cross. The Believer must separate from every device, pattern, scheme, or routine of man designed to bring about progressive growth, other than Faith in the Cross. A failure to do so will birth the heart of Cain into the heart of the Believer. And like Cain of old, you will find yourself attempting to kill or destroy Abel, whose Faith was in nothing but the blood sacrifice, a Type of the Cross.

Pastor Loren Larson - JSM
Click to expand...

Anyone (this includes professors of religion) who rejects the Cross, is a "worker of iniquity," whether they understand such or not; rejecting the Cross puts one in a state of rebellion. This will shut that person out of Heaven and shut them into Hell (Luke 13:23-24).
 
A. The Lord had respect unto Abel's offering
B. The Lord rejected Cain's offering
C. Cain is identified as a false teacher in Jude
D. Cain's countenance was NOT DOWNCAST UNTIL REJECTED

The problem is found in the offering regardless of the speculation concerning Cain's attitude or motive!
 
MessageOfTheCross said:

Anyone (this includes professors of religion) who rejects the Cross, is a "worker of iniquity," whether they understand such or not; rejecting the Cross puts one in a state of rebellion. This will shut that person out of Heaven and shut them into Hell (Luke 13:23-24).
Click to expand...

When Cain and Abel brought their sacrifice to God, God didn't look at them, He only looked at the sacrifice. And the same thing holds true to this present time. When a Believer sin God sees Jesus because we are in Him and justified by simple Faith in Christ and what Christ did at the Cross. In Cain's eyes, his sacrifice was "good." This is why many times a Believer must repent not only for the bad, but also for the good they do because it is "good" from the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil." The Apostle Paul tells us that the good he thought he was doing deceived him (Romans 7:11). If it not Faith in Christ and the Cross it is dead works which God rejects. A sacrifice God will not accept.
 
Last edited:
stonesoffire said:
We don't really know whether other offerings weren't acceptable at this time...but we do know this...

Heb 11:4　 By faith Abel offered to God a more acceptable sacrifice than Cain, through which he was commended as righteous, God commending him by accepting his gifts. And through his faith, though he died, he still speaks.　

Apparently, Cain didn't offer in faith. The heart.


Click to expand...
Cain knew full well what God desired in the offering. Cain and Able were both instructed by their parents what offering to bring to God.

Sin requires a blood offering. There are no exceptions to blood for covering sin. This basic principal is established early in Genesis and has not changed nor will it ever. It is perfected in the blood of Christ.

God provided the acceptable offering to Cain and Cain refused it. Abraham was offered a ram and he accepted it. Isaac was spared and the ram was sacrificed.

Cain was the first apostate recorded in the bible. He knew what was right and refused to do it. Able was murdered as a consequence of Cain's refusal to obey God.

You can observe similar things in modern Christianity. Head knowledge verses heart knowledge of the gospel and the Lord Jesus Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Good Day!
dcontroversal said:
The problem is found in the offering regardless of the speculation concerning Cain's attitude or motive!
Click to expand...

I respectfully disagree. One can give only what they have to give (The Lord gave it)... The Lord doesn't WANT anyone's offering when he or she has an alt with his or her brethren....Cain has a "heart" condition, no repentance.
-------
Luke 21:1 And he looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury.
Luke 21:2 And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites.
Luke 21:3 And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all:
Luke 21:4 For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.

The Lord doesn't care about money, its all His.

"Heart" condition.

1Sam 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
1Sam 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.
----------
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.


God Bless!!
 
Heb 11:4, "By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous,....". Faith played a role.

Heb 11:6, "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."

When Adam and Eve left the garden they left the "presence" of God. They could not walk with Him as before. This type of knowledge of God was not known to Cain and Able who had not stood in the presence of God.

So you might say that they were required to have more faith than Adam who had seen God. Maybe a kind of faith that was new to the human souls. Maybe the same kind of faith that we have today. We have not seen Jesus, but we believe.
Click to expand...

I will offer my two cents. Sorry in advance for the rambling, it helps this rambling man think.

The faith shown in Hebrews 11 represents the faith of God, not seen as that works in us. We have it but it is not of us.

2Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

Faith is the key for understanding the things not seen,unlocking the mysteries of God the eternal..

By faith as a work of God He commanded Abel bring a sheep .Which just happens to be the kind of work usually assigned to the younger as a last choice. (Pew) Like that of David who His jealous brothers hid when Samuel came.

I picture David as the kind that would not stop praising God .His family it seems might have been embarrassed .They thought for sure God would not chose him whom it seems his family thought went overboard..

Cain of his own thought coming from the imagination of his fleshly mind brought the fruit of the field. He would not bring a Lamb .In his jealousy he killed His brother. Because God had mercy of Abel by revealing His will in order to give him the faith to believe the voice not seen. Cain like Esau would have nothing to do with the gospel they were marked as restless wanders (no faith) .

Abel who was given the faith to believe God, as we can see, it as the faith of Christ worked in Abel to both will and perform the good pleasure of God.

Remember the curse had to do with food from the field .By it they maintained their temporal life of the flesh.

Genesis 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

Genesis 3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

The lambs were used to represent redemption in the ceremonial laws .It was necessary to slay a lamb a clean animal , even in respect to a unclean animal an Ass which is used to represent one unconverted as a picture of the suffering of Christ beforehand.

This I believe shows us God is not served by human hands he can use a unbeliever to bring His message just as easily as one who does have the faith of Christ dwelling in them, by which they can believe Him who has no form.

An Ass makes odd prophet. But a good picture of one who has no faith

And every firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb; and if thou wilt not redeem it, then thou shalt break his neck: and all the firstborn of man among thy children shalt thou redeem. Exodus 13:13

And the LORD opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times? Num 22:28
 
breno785au said:
I've always wondered why Abel's offering was respected by God but not Cains.

I do understand that with Abel's offering something had to die (sacrificed) is that where it's at?

There appears to be no text prior explaining that God explicitly commanded only the best animals are acceptable.

And I can see that both gave from where their work was, Cain cultivated, Abel shepherded.

We can see a slight parallel earlier where Adam and Eve used leaves to cover their shame but God sacrificed an animal for their clothes instead.

There would be a whole lot of symbology and whatever behind this one incident but I'm trying to dig into why it was unacceptable and Cains thought process at the time.
Click to expand...
The Word, was that if Cain did well his offering would be accepted (Genesis 4:6). Put simply, Cain had doubts about his offering to an unseen entity, and thus sacrificed his lesser quality produce to someone who may or may not be there.

Genesis 4:7 [FONT=&quot]If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.[/FONT]
 
louis said:
The Word, was that if Cain did well his offering would be accepted (Genesis 4:6). Put simply, Cain had doubts about his offering to an unseen entity, and thus sacrificed his lesser quality produce to someone who may or may not be there.

Genesis 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
Click to expand...
If Cain did not know God, how did he know that God had respect unto Abel and to his offering (Gen 4:4) or that God did not have respect unto Cain and his offering?

In Gen 4:6-7, God spoke to Cain and in Gen 4:9-15, Cain had a conversation with God.

Gen 4:16 says And Cain went out from the presence of the Lord.

Apparently, there was some specific place where God would meet with people.
 
dcontroversal said:
A. The Lord had respect unto Abel's offering
B. The Lord rejected Cain's offering
C. Cain is identified as a false teacher in Jude
D. Cain's countenance was NOT DOWNCAST UNTIL REJECTED

The problem is found in the offering regardless of the speculation concerning Cain's attitude or motive!
Click to expand...


I agree with your sentiment.
The severity of evil that grew after, is no laughing matter.
Ive witnessed many a luciferians try and speak as if cain were an object of pity.
They are the same liars and sorcerors who say all the Disciples were murdered(martyred). They does this to placate and justify the wicked.


actually in Jude, cain is identified as a wandering star.
a murderer.
compared with the rebellion of korah whom where swallowed by the earth.

And even more so compared to balaam, who bribes and lures people to Curse Avraham and even Yisrael also.

They encourage the wicked to spill blood.

or as has been constantly flooded toward the younger generations, they provoke the Children to wrath.
 
Last edited:
reneweddaybyday said:
If Cain did not know God, how did he know that God had respect unto Abel and to his offering (Gen 4:4) or that God did not have respect unto Cain and his offering?

In Gen 4:6-7, God spoke to Cain and in Gen 4:9-15, Cain had a conversation with God.

Gen 4:16 says And Cain went out from the presence of the Lord.

Apparently, there was some specific place where God would meet with people.
Click to expand...


The idea would be that as time went by souls fell further and further away from God until they had to start calling on the name of the Lord Gen 4:26.

Cain and Abel were in "a presence" of God, but not like Adam and Eve were in the garden.

By the time Noah came the human souls had completely fallen away from Jehovah worship.
 
reneweddaybyday said:
If Cain did not know God, how did he know that God had respect unto Abel and to his offering (Gen 4:4) or that God did not have respect unto Cain and his offering?

In Gen 4:6-7, God spoke to Cain and in Gen 4:9-15, Cain had a conversation with God.

Gen 4:16 says And Cain went out from the presence of the Lord.

Apparently, there was some specific place where God would meet with people.
Click to expand...
Cain had doubts about an unseen entity (God), and thereby sacrificed his waste produce to an entity he believed did not know, or could see that he was burning his garbage in reverence to this hypothetical unseen entity. Cain thusly did wrong, and in some form, the Lord in Genesis 4:7 let Cain know that he did wrong with his trash produce offering.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back