Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
While growing up in the Roman Catholic church, I heard them mock "imputed" righteousness and they taught "imparted" righteousness instead. Justification ended up getting confused with ongoing sanctification in their errant theology which resulted in a false gospel of salvation by faith + works.
I am glad you wised up hahah
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
faith without works is dead.



What you do not define, is it is NOT WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, which are part of the FREE GIFT of SALVATION. What is James is TALKING about is Works of the LOVE that GOD put in our hearts, Rom. 5:5. Here is some Parallel verses of Scripture that Can prove it.



1 John 3:14-19 (ESV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers. Whoever does not love abides in death.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] By this we know love, that he laid down his life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for the brothers.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] But if anyone has the world’s goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God’s love abide in him?
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] By this we shall know that we are of the truth and reassure our heart before him;



WHERE DID THAT LOVE COME FROM:


Romans 5:5-6 (ESV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.


Oh my, you do not get to claim even part of it!

Humble yourself and KNOW that
GOD'S LOVE is inside of you.

If you learn to LET Scripture interpret Scripture, you will make far fewer misinterpretations.
 
Last edited:

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
THAT FIRST SENTENCE ABOVE SHOULD READ AS FOLLOWS.

What you do not define, is it is NOT WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, THAT HE PROVIDED AS A 100% FREE GIFT of SALVATION, BY HIS GRACE AND MERCY.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Have the workers for done enough today to maintain their salvation.......? NOPE...NOT TODAY, NOT TOMORROW NOT EVER....it is faith that saves a man..
not works!!
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
Thank you, TT, I was just thinking I had not seen you for a while :) I am glad to see you are still with us, and hope you and your lovely wife are well...

I heard on the radio on the way to work this morning that close to 10% of Canadians live out of the country. I imagine many of them are in places like Thailand. I have known people that were planning to move there when they retired, and also know people who spend a good deal of time in Mexico. Meanwhile I have been to neither place LOL. I guess I am much more of a home body :D

One time a friend of mine went to Thailand, and had thousands of pictures she wanted to show me when she returned from her trip, and I know the sharing of photos is much more than looking at pictures, it is all the stories that go with them, but what she was not taking into consideration for me was the fact that as a photofinisher, I had seen most of her pictures many times over already :eek: Just without her in them ;) So that did not go over very well. That was probably around the time or after I became Christian, also. She was someone who felt total betrayal by my becoming Christian. It is funny how that happens...
Thank you for your comments, I met a nice man from Canada who is a retired helicopter pilot, Capt. Steve, who lived on his catamaran in Phuket, Thailand. As of today all that I know of Captain Steve is that he has relocated his Catamaran to the Philippine Islands and continues to enjoy his retirement. Thailand remains an excellent choice for places to retire. Unfortunately my wife and I made the choice to return to USA to receive advanced prostate cancer treatment.

I have not been posting on CC lately because of a fall in the shower which injured my sciatic nerve and currently am being treated for this difficult pain. I can last about 5mins sitting down at the keyboard and then I just give up like right now. Decon tells me I need to stop doing backflips in the shower, hahahah! I finish daily radiation treatment next Wednesday yippi.

Christianchat.com is a wonderful place to visit and proclaim the Truth of God, but it is also a microcosm of the church as we see it in real life today. We all need to be careful to not fall prey to false teachers.
 
Last edited:
Jan 25, 2018
673
10
0


What you do not define, is it is NOT WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, which are part of the FREE GIFT of SALVATION. What is James is TALKING about is Works of the LOVE that GOD put in our hearts, Rom. 5:5. Here is some Parallel verses of Scripture that Can prove it.

1 John 3:14-19 (ESV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers. Whoever does not love abides in death.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] By this we know love, that he laid down his life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for the brothers.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] But if anyone has the world’s goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God’s love abide in him?
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] By this we shall know that we are of the truth and reassure our heart before him;

WHERE DID THAT LOVE COME FROM:

Romans 5:5-6 (ESV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.

Oh my, you do not get to claim even part of it!

Humble yourself and KNOW that
GOD'S LOVE is inside of you.

If you learn to LET Scripture interpret Scripture, you will make far fewer misinterpretations.

What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him?
Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food.
If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it?
In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.
You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder.
You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless?
James 2:14-20

The passage above is about showing love through action. And this action is very much
us responding to a need.

Now these words are expressions of the love we have in our hearts. They do not make
us righteous, but they show love is alive and well. James is saying one cannot claim to
have love and not express it out in practical life.
 
Jan 25, 2018
673
10
0
Hi Magenta, thank God for your gift of discernment, this is nothing more than sugar coated words from Peter Jens. It is based on his imaginations sprinkled with wisdom from the the bible. Some can see right through his sugary lies and then there are those who are taken in. I grew up with all of this sugary coated God speak my whole life and it has fooled many, take a good close look at his words before you are hooked by his lies... "Did God really say", "that ye may approve things that are excellent." Philippians 1:10, God bless.

"
Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”
Ever hear a serpent speaking? No obvious points just a way of saying someone is
evil, and the evil is the very thing the gospel is founded on, love.

Would any believer ever attack the gospel based on love, or has cynicism taken hold
in their heart, so anything that talks about sacrifice, giving, being pure, righteous and
holy is now evil and deceptive. What is the greatest ethic in Christs message?
Love expressed through the cross.

Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom,
but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,
but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.
1 Corinthians 1:22-25

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.
It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.
Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
1 Corinthians 13:4-6

And I wish TT well, and that his suffering and pain might find relief in the healing of Christ
and the Holy Spirit. Grace and peace to you in Christ Jesus.
 
Jan 25, 2018
673
10
0
Sinless perfectionists always push a false law abiding dogma......
People who love God, always push doing good, right things, called righteous acts
and condemn evil, sin, which destroys and leads to death.

If one was lawless, one would say
"Moralists condemn us passionate humans for being who we are, they are evil"

When the crowd in Sodom and Gommorah demanded Lot to hand over the visitors,
were they doing the right thing or being evil?
Was Lot regarded as righteous or evil?
Why did the angels go to save this one righteous man?

It is easy to condemn those who claim to never have fault and walk perfectly, but
one must be very careful you do not end up condemning righteousness itself and
thereby the hope we have in Christ.

And my question is simple.
If to meet Christ we need to be actually Holy, pure, cleansed and undefiled, and
this needs to occur before the end of our lives, at what point can anyone declare
with some reasonable certainty they are walking in Christs ways?

Paul appears to have been able to declare this, that he was following Jesus's example.

Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ.
1 Corinthians 11:1

My problem with condemnation of some people, is if you condemn the ultimate goal,
are you not undermining the road that leads there?

And if you are undermining the way of Christ, are you not making yourself the enemy?

I have no problem with anyone doing the right things, or being righteous, just when
this is the focus rather than Jesus, service and learning to love more. And often when
idealism is claimed, the focus on what is actually happening is lost and sin starts to
abound because the appropriate boundaries have been removed and people assume
good intentions, rather than being as innocent as doves but wise as serpents.

Grace and peace to you, in Christ Jesus
 
Dec 22, 2017
278
3
0
Have the workers for done enough today to maintain their salvation.......? NOPE...NOT TODAY, NOT TOMORROW NOT EVER....it is faith that saves a man..
not works!!
Have the ZOMBIES done anything such as LOVE and OBEDIENCE to do the will of God?

James 2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

Do ZOMBIES have the Spirit?

Ask them but I'm not even sure if they'll be able to answer you because they surely can't even hear because they're DEAD.

Luke 6:31 do to others as you would have them do to you.
 
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
56
0
What really amazes me here is that when someone says that if you LOVE Jesus you will keep his Commandments. Not because you are saved by them but because you LOVE Jesus then you are labelled by some that teach against God's LAW that you are working at your salvation when in fact that it is only by FAITH IN GOD'S WORD and ABIDING in Christ through LOVE that we choose to follow him who calls us.

This is despite Jesus telling us; in John 14:15, If you LOVE me KEEP my COMMANDMENTS.

NONE of us are save by what we do. We are all SINNERS in need of a Saviour. The true Gospel is that we indeed have a Saviour that can SAVE a sinner from their SINS. Salvation is not IN SIN it is FROM it. This is the POWER of God unto salvation to everyone who BELIEVES. Those that do not KNOW this power have a form of Godliness but deny this power.

The FALSE GOSPEL preached today is that you can be saved IN SIN not FROM SIN. Just BELIEVE like the devils believe and as long as you BELIEVE you will be saved.

Yet it is GOD that says If you break God's Commandments and continue IN SIN you will surely die.

This False Gospel is the very first LIE spoken of by the devil to EVE in the Garden of Eden.

SIN will keep all who practice it OUT of God's KINGDOM

..................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has lead many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.
 
Last edited:
Jun 5, 2017
3,675
56
0
THE FIRST LIE IN THE GARDEN OF EDEN >>> IS THE FALSE GOSPEL TODAY

Let's start at John and at the beginning of Genesis 3 (this may be too long a study but let's try and make it shorter there are a lot of conencting scripture which I may add a few here only)

Let's start here with the father of lies......

John 8
44,
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: FOR HE IS A LIAR AND THE FATHER OF IT.

The Devil is the Father of LIES those that do not FOLLOW God follow their Father the devil and the deeds of their father they will do.

links to...........

1 John 2
3, And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4, He that saith, I KNOW HIM, and KEEPS NOT HIS COMMANDMENTS, is a LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM

links to...........

1 John 3
4,
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5, And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6, Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8, He that committeth sin is of the devil; (the father of lies and the deeds of their father they will do; John 8:44)

The father of lies from the begining. Let's go to the beginning will look at separate meanings and types....

Genesis 3
1,
Now the SEPENT <Satan Rev 12:9> was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the WOMEN <Church good or bad; Jeremiah 6:2; 2 Corinthians 11:2; Ephesians 5:23-27; Isaiah 1:21-27; Jeremiah 3:1-3; 6-9; Ezk 16:15-58; 23:2-21; Hos. 2:5; 3:1; Rev. 14:4>, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

2, And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the FRUIT of the trees of the garden: <FRUIT of OBEDIENCE (James 2:18; 20; 26; Matthew 7:12-23; Jon 15:1-10)

3, But of the FRUIT of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, LEST YOU DIE <God's LAW; represents God's 10 commandments which gives the KNOWLEDGE of SIN and RIGHTEUSNESS; Good and Evil; Romans 3:20; 7:7; James 2:11; 1 John 3:4; Ps 119:172; but makes nothing perfect>.

4, And the serpent said unto the woman, YOU SHALL NOT SURELY DIE:< The first LIE from the beginning; John 8:44)

5, For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, KNOWING GOOD AND EVIL. < Prior to DISOBEYING God Mankind DID NOT KNOW what EVIL (SIN) was because they were in HARMONY and OBEDIENT to God's WORD>

6, And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

7, And THE EYES OF THEM WERE OPENED, AND THEY KNEW THAT THEY WERE NAKED; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons. <God's LAW is the KNOWLEDGE of SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS; When they SINNED they now had the KNOWLEDGE of both GOOD and EVIL; Romans 3:20; 7:7; James 2:11; 1 John 3:4; Ps 119:172;>

The saw that they were naked and tried to cover themselves with figleaves; SIN took away their RIGHTEOUSNESS and now they are guilty before God in SIN; NAKED before God in SIN trying to cover themselves with figleaves (flithy rags) Isaiah 63:6; Righteousness to cover our nakedness only from God; Luke 15:22; If we SIN we lose it; Romans 3:19 >

8, And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

9, And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
10, And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
11, And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?

Key points and putting it all together..........

The Serpent and father of LIES is the Devil he lied to MANKIND from the beginning. God's Commandment to Adam and Eve was NOT to eat of the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL (SIN AND RIGHTESOUNESS) lest you DIE. Adam and Eve did not have the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL (SIN AND RIGHTESOUNESS) because they had NEVER SINNED and where in HARMONY with God in OBEDIENCE to HIS WORD.

THE TREE OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL REPRESENTS GOD's Commandments. The TAKING THE FRUIT symbolizes BREAKING the TREE and DISOBEYING God's Commandment NOT TO EAT the FRUIT lest you DIE is UNBELIEF in God's WORD.

THIS IS A WARNING FOR US TODAY. THE same LIE told to ADAM and EVE is being repeated in the mainstream Churches of today.

SIN is the transgression of GOD'S LAW and if anyone CONTINUES in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN; God's WORD says they will DIE and not ENTER THE KINGDOM of HEAVEN because they have rejected the GIFT of God's dear son (Romans 6:23; Hebrews 10:26-27; 6:4-8; Matthew 7:12-23)

It is only by partaking of the TREE of LIFE (BELIEVING AND FOLLOWING God's Word by LOVE) through FAITH that Gods FRUITS of OBEDIENCE are seen in the life of God's true people (1 John 3:3-10; Revelation 12:17; 14:12; 22:14) and is why Jesus says if you LOVE me keep my commandments ( John 14:15; 15:10)

......................

God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)


There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?

In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).
 

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
May 3, 2017
3,756
4,119
113
63
Hi all...Isn't it just wonderful how Gods word come alive when we are seeking Him...

James 4:8 Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded...

These past days for one reason or another I have been under attack spiritually
:(...Before I was saved I suffered with mental illness for 30 years on and off having episodes here and there...Yesterday I was beside myself with doubts about my salvation , it has nothing to do with my believing because it is written on my heart that Jesus Christ is my LORD and Savior , but the evil one knows my mind only to well because before I was saved my mind was his play ground , and so today as I cried out to the Lord , He calmed my mind in an instance , true to His word He never leaves us nor forsakes us , and this is what He fed me and I am rejoicing because only He can keep me free...:D...

Philippians 1:6 I am sure of this , that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus...:)

Ephesians 1:13-14 When you heard the message of truth , the gospel of your salvation , and when you believed in Him , you were also sealed with the promised Holy Spirit...He is the down payment of our inheritance , for the redemption of the possession , to the praise of His glory...\:D/...

I can't help but rejoice and just wanted to share that in here...God's word has given me more understanding , I know many of you know these Scriptures , but for me they are a new revelation from God himself in my time of need , and I have wrote them down to repeat them over and have them written on my heart also :D...xox...
 

preston39

Senior Member
Dec 18, 2017
1,675
240
63
Have the workers for done enough today to maintain their salvation.......? NOPE...NOT TODAY, NOT TOMORROW NOT EVER....it is faith that saves a man..
not works!!
d...,

Doesn't righteous works help validate one's faith? Titus says so..... and I think it is wise.

I think there are confusions of what works are needed...along with faith.
 
Last edited:
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
d...,

Doesn't righteous works help validate one's faith? Titus says so and I think it is wise.
Does God need you to validate you faith before he saved you eternally?
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,999
113
What really amazes me here is that when someone says that if you LOVE Jesus you will keep his Commandments.
Jesus said the entire workings of the law are summed up in but one commandment to obey:

"Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?" Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.(John 6:28-29)

That's it, and that's all.

 
Nov 17, 2017
595
409
63
d...,

Doesn't righteous works help validate one's faith?
Nay.

Matt 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Matt 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

God Bless...