Not By Works

[BenFTW]

I always find it humorous when the Church preaches so strongly against sin yet without batting an eye say they sin every day. There is a disconnect there, and a contradiction in doctrine. I am not expressing sinless perfectionism, but pointing out an odd dilemma. Scripture tells us if we sin we have an Advocate with the Father, but for some reason I do not see habitual sin here. In fact scripture even tells us to forsake brethren who sin (for the sake of restoration), but in the same breath we say we sin all the time. If this were a church the pews would be empty.

 

[Budman]

I always find it humorous when the Church preaches so strongly against sin yet without batting an eye say they sin every day. There is a disconnect there, and a contradiction in doctrine. I am not expressing sinless perfectionism, but pointing out an odd dilemma. Scripture tells us if we sin we have an Advocate with the Father, but for some reason I do not see habitual sin here. In fact scripture even tells us to forsake brethren who sin (for the sake of restoration), but in the same breath we say we sin all the time. If this were a church the pews would be empty.

Hi, Ben! Good to see you, bro!

 

[AbigailZeke]

You're confusing yourself. Here's some light.

You are dead in the flesh and in your sins.

When you know and receive the good news of Jesus' salvation, you will live. Raised back to life, like Jesus.

Now, one who was raised back to life, can't die again.

---

So yes all sins are forgiven and no, denying Jesus is not a possibility for a true believer.

Let me talk about the foolishness of some belief systems

All ones sins are forgiven, past, present, future. So you are deemed holy while actually
still being a sinner. Except if you deny Jesus, you are then not forgiven.

So to have security in extending forgiveness outside the boundary of faith, creates this
absurdity. Now the definition of spiritual blindness, is they refuse to recognise that the
system has failed. But then the system was never created to make sense, but to solve
the problem of unresolved sinful behaviour and a Holy God. Answer, God ignores ones on
going sin. Except this is just seared consciences and a dead heart.

 

[BenFTW]

Hi, Ben! Good to see you, bro!

Hey! Thanks for the warm welcome.

 

[LightLoveHope]

Zombie faith

"Once one is saved, they will remain saved - no matter how much or how little they sin. No matter if 20 years down the line, they deny Jesus. "

This is saying God will against the believers wishes force them into heaven.
The missing gap, is the idea God will make up for the gap between the sinful lifestyle
of the believer and the purity of heaven.

The hard reality is God gives no assurance, rather the opposite.
Get right with a Holy God or you will not have known Him at all.

Now I know the hard hearts here do not care anymore, if as Paul says, you sow
to the flesh will inherit death, ie eternal death in the lake of fire.

 

[AbigailZeke]

Happens a lot these days. Thankfully the true gospel is now louder than ever.

Just a few months ago, my mother has officially joined the imputed-righteousness group. She's a youth pastor and we used to argue a lot about how my gospel (of grace) means she doesn't have to do anything but just there and to her that didn't make sense.

I was worried because I know how terrible the works-based doctrine makes a person feel and I felt bad for her. But I didn't sweat it cause I knew God was already working behind the scenes and lo and behold.

She saw it! She saw the light! It's been a couple of months now (I think) since she understood what REALLY happened at the Cross (the divine exchange, our sinfulness for Christ's righteousness) and now EVEN our neighbours ask her what's happened to her. She turned into this person who can't stop the overflow of God's goodness in her life.

I'm organising sermons to share to the neighbourhood (she's giving me something to do on a weekend) because apparently, she has been spreading the good news there and people are starting to thirst for God's fountain of life!

Oh happy day is our theme song now lol.

I always find it humorous when the Church preaches so strongly against sin yet without batting an eye say they sin every day. There is a disconnect there, and a contradiction in doctrine. I am not expressing sinless perfectionism, but pointing out an odd dilemma. Scripture tells us if we sin we have an Advocate with the Father, but for some reason I do not see habitual sin here. In fact scripture even tells us to forsake brethren who sin (for the sake of restoration), but in the same breath we say we sin all the time. If this were a church the pews would be empty.

 

[Budman]

denying Jesus is not a possibility for a true believer.

This is the only part of your post I disagree with. Peter denied Jesus three times. And many Christians throughout history, under duress through torture, or anger, or despair have denied Jesus. That sin as well is covered under the blood.

The difference between one who denies Jesus and an actual Christian, is the actual Christian returns. One who is a Christian in name only will not come back, because he never belonged to the Lord in the first place.

 

[AbigailZeke]

Oh my gosh. How awful your life must have been. I feel for your seriously. That was a ditch I fell into that I never wish to happen to anyone.

The hard reality is God gives no assurance, rather the opposite.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Phar·i·see
ˈferəˌsē/Submit
noun
a member of an ancient Jewish sect, distinguished by strict observance of the traditional and written law, and commonly held to have pretensions to superior sanctity.
___
a self-righteous person; a hypocrite.

hmmmmm
interesting....


◄ 5330. Pharisaios ►
Strong's Concordance
Pharisaios: a Pharisee, member of a Jewish religious sect
Original Word: Φαρισαῖος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: Pharisaios
Phonetic Spelling: (far-is-ah'-yos)
Short Definition: a Pharisee
Definition: a Pharisee, one of the Jewish sect so called.
HELPS Word-studies
5330 Pharisaíos – properly, "a separatist, a purist"; a Pharisee."

["Pharisee" is derived from the Aramaic term, peras ("to divide and separate"). This literally refers to a "separatist"; hence, a Pharisee was someone "separated from sin."]



HMMMMMMMMMMMMM

INTERESTING

i still find this interesting

hmmmmm

 

[Budman]

Zombie faith

"Once one is saved, they will remain saved - no matter how much or how little they sin. No matter if 20 years down the line, they deny Jesus. "

This is saying God will against the believers wishes force them into heaven.
The missing gap, is the idea God will make up for the gap between the sinful lifestyle
of the believer and the purity of heaven.

The hard reality is God gives no assurance, rather the opposite.
Get right with a Holy God or you will not have known Him at all.

Now I know the hard hearts here do not care anymore, if as Paul says, you sow
to the flesh will inherit death, ie eternal death in the lake of fire.

And now we're back to your zombie nonsense again?

*sigh*

It's like when a kid puts their fingers in their ears and says, "naaah, naaah, naaah, I can't heeeear you!"

 

[MichaelOwen]

Hey! Thanks for the warm welcome.

Definitely good to hear from you brother!

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Jesus said this about people who reject His teaching

Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.
Matthew 7:6

When faced with arguments they cannot refute, in frustration they will attack
the speaker themselves. And what are they attacking?

Obeying Jesus.

you know what Jesus actually said?

without adding our own words to it like you just did...


john 6
35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

you know what Jesus actually said?

without adding our own words to it like you just did...


john 6
35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

(argument you never refuted when faced with by the way)

 

[BenFTW]

Happens a lot these days. Thankfully the true gospel is now louder than ever.

Just a few months ago, my mother has officially joined the imputed-righteousness group. She's a youth pastor and we used to argue a lot about how my gospel (of grace) means she doesn't have to do anything but just there and to her that didn't make sense.

I was worried because I know how terrible the works-based doctrine makes a person feel and I felt bad for her. But I didn't sweat it cause I knew God was already working behind the scenes and lo and behold.

She saw it! She saw the light! It's been a couple of months now (I think) since she understood what REALLY happened at the Cross (the divine exchange, our sinfulness for Christ's righteousness) and now EVEN our neighbours ask her what's happened to her. She turned into this person who can't stop the overflow of God's goodness in her life.

I'm organising sermons to share to the neighbourhood (she's giving me something to do on a weekend) because apparently, she has been spreading the good news there and people are starting to thirst for God's fountain of life!

Oh happy day is our theme song now lol.

Understanding the grace of God is paramount to peace in our hearts. Grasping the truth of imputed righteousness and the total forgiveness of sin by the blood of the Lamb is essential in walking into the reconciliation that Christ purchased for us. Condemnation, guilt, and shame that alienates us from God is blinded by the light of the truth. It is silenced and our hearts rejoice as we fellowship with God, boldly and humbly sitting in His presence by the grace of God.

I am happy for your mother, praise God!

 

[AbigailZeke]

You know, my mother's a smart woman. One time when she heard something similar to "god gives no assurance" (small g because that's not my God) kind of sermon, she asked.

"The world doesn't give us assurance either... so who does?"

Zombie faith

"Once one is saved, they will remain saved - no matter how much or how little they sin. No matter if 20 years down the line, they deny Jesus. "

This is saying God will against the believers wishes force them into heaven.
The missing gap, is the idea God will make up for the gap between the sinful lifestyle
of the believer and the purity of heaven.

The hard reality is God gives no assurance, rather the opposite.
Get right with a Holy God or you will not have known Him at all.

Now I know the hard hearts here do not care anymore, if as Paul says, you sow
to the flesh will inherit death, ie eternal death in the lake of fire.

 

[Budman]

This is saying God will against the believers wishes force them into heaven.

Nothing in all creation can separate us. (Romans 8:38-39). And no one, that includes ourselves, can snatch us out of God's hand. (John 10:28-29).

Period.

So, yeah. Once you're saved, it's a done deal. Even if later on, you don't like it.

 

[Rosemaryx]

Hi all...I love this Scripture ...Lamentations 3:22-23 [FONT=&quot]The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] his mercies never come to an end;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]23 they are new every morning;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] great is your faithfulness...

Isaiah 43:25 [/FONT]"I, even I, am he who blots out your transgressions, for my own sake, and remembers your sins no more...

We have turned back to God , we are now His children , those who have been born again of the Spirit...
Romans 3:24 Yet God, with undeserved kindness, declares that we are righteous. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins...

Thank you God for your fesh Grace and Mercy that you give us each morning...Thank you LORD that we are saved by your grace ...

Ephesians 2:8-10: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them...

Philippians 2:13 For God is working in you, giving you the desire and the power to do what pleases him...

Amen and praise the Lord \/...Just exercising my faith here in the name of Jesus Christ our Lord...xox...

 

[NoNameMcgee]

And now we're back to your zombie nonsense again?

*sigh*

It's like when a kid puts their fingers in their ears and says, "naaah, naaah, naaah, I can't heeeear you!"

agreed...

absolutely ridiculous

 

[VCO]

I'm listening, although, I'm listening more intently here.

You know....of all my Australian friends and how honest they are...it is tragic to see you being dishonest.........no one has stated the bolded (in your last line) and or even implied it.....funny how ALL workers for that elevate their works above saving faith are the most dishonest people on this site.........you claim works go hand in hand with faith and then flat misrepresent, twist, embellish and accuse of something that NONE of us have embraced and or tired to say..... How does this level of dishonesty help prove that you guys even know the Lord......[/QUOTE]

May I suggest that you do not use that LIGHT GRAY color fold your letters, as it is EXTREMELY hard to read. Here is an example, with the colors that used. John 1:1 (YLT) 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God; Thanks for the memories of Windows 3.11 days.

 

[preacher4truth]

The hard reality is God gives no assurance, rather the opposite.

Your words show you do not know the Gospel nor do you understand grace.