Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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N
tell that to the thief on the cross
we are saved without works
we recieve Christ and are born again as sinners
and we are saved
boom
its finished
we could die then and still be saved no works of ourself involved
but if we dont
being a new creature
yeah
there is change
we will see it manifest itself in our thoughts and deeds
praise God
i hope all of us are used greatly by Him
we are saved without works
we recieve Christ and are born again as sinners
and we are saved
boom
its finished
we could die then and still be saved no works of ourself involved
but if we dont
being a new creature
yeah
there is change
we will see it manifest itself in our thoughts and deeds
praise God
i hope all of us are used greatly by Him
U
You missed the words eternal assurance in my post
The apostles tell us clearly the assurance comes from faith in Christ Jesus and not from our works
Now pay attention Ralphie…
Without assurance there are no good works
Our works come from our assurance of eternal life
You contradict the gospel writers by saying that good works BRINGS assurance BUT assurance is what we need to do good works!
Yet, you have made it very clear that you do not believe in the eternal assurance of the believer?
The apostles tell us clearly the assurance comes from faith in Christ Jesus and not from our works
Now pay attention Ralphie…
Without assurance there are no good works
Our works come from our assurance of eternal life
You contradict the gospel writers by saying that good works BRINGS assurance BUT assurance is what we need to do good works!
Yet, you have made it very clear that you do not believe in the eternal assurance of the believer?
J
Besides why strain over "if" you are saved?
The bible is clear on how to be saved,once saved you "let" God/Jesus guide you to what to do and ask him for guidance not merely wonder to yourself about such things,it's a knowing thing if a person doesn't know after so many years that their saved then something is certainly wrong,for what use is "doubt"?
The bible is clear on how to be saved,once saved you "let" God/Jesus guide you to what to do and ask him for guidance not merely wonder to yourself about such things,it's a knowing thing if a person doesn't know after so many years that their saved then something is certainly wrong,for what use is "doubt"?
R
Jesus said the Pharisees appeared righteous on the outside but they were full of hypocrisy and lawlessness-Matthew 23:28. They did not keep the law as so many want to claim. It's impossible to compare them to the obedient Christian who is not lawless. But people are so quick to condemn the successful Christian with the honest and good heart who bears fruit (Luke 8:15) as being nothing more than a deceived Pharisee working his way into the kingdom, but we see that the Bible says that no comparison or similarity exists between the two. The Pharisees were lawless and did not bear fruit. While the obedient Christian is not lawless and bears fruit.
Works really do show if you have faith or not. That is what the Bible says. "show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works"-James 2:18.
Works really do show if you have faith or not. That is what the Bible says. "show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works"-James 2:18.
J
tell that to the thief on the cross
we are saved without works
we recieve Christ and are born again as sinners
and we are saved
boom
its finished
we could die then and still be saved no works of ourself involved
but if we dont
being a new creature
yeah
there is change
we will see it manifest itself in our thoughts and deeds
praise God
i hope all of us are used greatly by Him
we are saved without works
we recieve Christ and are born again as sinners
and we are saved
boom
its finished
we could die then and still be saved no works of ourself involved
but if we dont
being a new creature
yeah
there is change
we will see it manifest itself in our thoughts and deeds
praise God
i hope all of us are used greatly by Him
R
tell that to the thief on the cross
we are saved without works
we recieve Christ and are born again as sinners
and we are saved
boom
its finished
we could die then and still be saved no works of ourself involved
but if we dont
being a new creature
yeah
there is change
we will see it manifest itself in our thoughts and deeds
praise God
i hope all of us are used greatly by Him
we are saved without works
we recieve Christ and are born again as sinners
and we are saved
boom
its finished
we could die then and still be saved no works of ourself involved
but if we dont
being a new creature
yeah
there is change
we will see it manifest itself in our thoughts and deeds
praise God
i hope all of us are used greatly by Him
You know if you really got saved the moment you believed by if you have works and persevere to the very end. That's the other part of the Calvinist once saved always doctrine that people are neglecting. You want the 'you can't lose your salvation' part, but you either don't know about or are ignoring the part of that doctrine that says only the truly saved will have works and endure to the very end, or else they were never saved to begin with.
'Boom it's finished' only happened if you really believed to begin with. And we know if you really believed to begin with by if you do not deny Christ and persevere to the very end. If you don't do that 'Boom it's finished' didn't really happen. Understand?
So works ARE required to be saved, not to earn your salvation but because if you don't have them 'Boom it's finished' didn't happen when you first believed. The thief on the cross completed the work of enduring to the very end. Unlike you and I, he was one that resisted to the point of shedding blood in his striving against sin-Hebrews 12:4. He was found faithful and did not deny Christ. He endured to the very end. He showed by doing that that he was really saved. He HAD to do that, or else he would be showing he did not really believe and was saved. Understand?
R
You missed the words eternal assurance in my post
The apostles tell us clearly the assurance comes from faith in Christ Jesus and not from our works
Now pay attention Ralphie…
Without assurance there are no good works
Our works come from our assurance of eternal life
You contradict the gospel writers by saying that good works BRINGS assurance BUT assurance is what we need to do good works!
Yet, you have made it very clear that you do not believe in the eternal assurance of the believer?
The apostles tell us clearly the assurance comes from faith in Christ Jesus and not from our works
Now pay attention Ralphie…
Without assurance there are no good works
Our works come from our assurance of eternal life
You contradict the gospel writers by saying that good works BRINGS assurance BUT assurance is what we need to do good works!
Yet, you have made it very clear that you do not believe in the eternal assurance of the believer?
You will see that you are confusing 'assurance' with 'security'. We have the assurance of our security in Christ by if we have works or not. You can only be assured that you are secure in Christ and are prepared to meet Jesus when he comes back if you have works. That is what the Bible says.
J
Actually no the thief didn't "endure to the end" he "believed" at "his end" particularly "endureth to the end" mainly focuses upon the 144,000 in the tribulation period that Jesus redeems from the earth,for they "endured not to be defiled" and "did not take the mark of tbe beast" Huge difference there.
R
Read Hebrews 12:4, the verse I cited. He is one of the few of us who DID resist sin to the point of shedding blood. That work of endurance showed he was in fact saved. Had he not endured to the end and instead joined in with the other thief in mocking Jesus he would be showing that he did not believe. His work of enduring was necessary to validate his faith in Christ as being real. No work of enduring would have menat he had no salvation from which that work could flow. He would be showing himself to not be saved. That's why it was necessary for him to have that work. This is the other part of the once save always saved doctrine you and so many others are rejecting. You're all on board with the 'you can't lose your salvation' part. But you have rejected the 'you must endure to the end or you are showing yourself to not really be saved' part. It's all one package. It's the Calvin package of eternal security. It's being replaced by what you're doing-casting off the 'you must endure to the very end' part. It's the new once saved always doctrine in the church.
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