Not By Works
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Character matters greatly when considering Gods authority given to men. To be trusted with the Spirit of Jesus is serious. We are witnessing of Him.
But it's of our soul. Not a requirement for salvation in the sense of entrance into heaven. As far as our soul? Our soul is always becoming as He is, the more He is revealed to us. That's salvation too.
But it's of our soul. Not a requirement for salvation in the sense of entrance into heaven. As far as our soul? Our soul is always becoming as He is, the more He is revealed to us. That's salvation too.
N
i think God can use anything as a blessing
even someone doing wrong to us (by us i mean man/woman in general)
but if we want to be fruitful and a helpful member to the body of Christ
i do think it is wise to examine ourself and see if we are in the spirit
or flesh when reacting to someone
i personally have made huge mistakes and set stumbling blocks in front of others before
by lack of knowledge (i shouldve been silent)
or acting according to the flesh (impatience and not gentle or apt to teach)
even someone doing wrong to us (by us i mean man/woman in general)
but if we want to be fruitful and a helpful member to the body of Christ
i do think it is wise to examine ourself and see if we are in the spirit
or flesh when reacting to someone
i personally have made huge mistakes and set stumbling blocks in front of others before
by lack of knowledge (i shouldve been silent)
or acting according to the flesh (impatience and not gentle or apt to teach)
Hi Studyman,
You made an interesting statement, "One such lie, is the lie that the Pharisees were trying to "earn" Salvation by following God's Laws. This is not true."
I've not heard this perspective before so I considered it.
Here's my question to you, if the Pharisees weren't trying to earn their salvation, why did Jesus say this to them?
John 5:39 You diligently search the Scriptures because you think to have eternal life in them, and these are they bearing witness concerning Me; 40and you are not willing to come to Me, that you may have life.
It appears Jesus wanted to get their heads out of trying to simply follow Scripture and actually come to Christ. Nothing to do with creating their own Sabbath and all the other stuff you're proclaiming.
In fact, when asked about the Sabbath, Jesus had this to say concerning it:
Matt 12:7 But if you had known what this is, ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice,’ then you would not have condemned the guiltless. 8For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.”
Once again we see Jesus saying, get your head out of this idea that by you keeping the Sabbath (not a wrong one) that you're somehow following Me. He is saying look to ME, I desire mercy, I am the Lord of the Sabbath.
His point is taking them off the LAW and on to Him the bringer of Life.
It wasn't that they didn't follow the laws of God or else Paul himself wouldn't have said this:
Philippians 3:4 ...If anyone else thinks he has grounds for confidence in the flesh, I have more: 5circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin; a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee; 6as to zeal, persecuting the church; as to righteousness under the Law, faultless.
Paul states clearly that according to the flesh (by the Law) he had more confidence than anyone else. As to the Law, a Pharisee the context shows that he means he followed the Law of God (not of their own making) perfectly. He later says according to righteousness under the law he was faultless (or blameless).
Which means if ANYONE could be saved by the flesh and by the law and by works it would be THIS man Paul.
But what does Paul say next?
Philippians 3:7 But whatever was an asset to me, I count as loss for the sake of Christ. 8More than that, I count all things as loss compared to the surpassing excellence of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God on the basis of faith.
Paul who was blameless before the law according to him, who had more confidence in his works than any other, said it was complete rubbish compared to KNOWING CHRIST. He goes on to say that any RIGHTEOUSNESS of his own he tosses aside. He wants NONE of it. So that he might have only that which is available from faith IN CHRIST.
I think it's high time we start celebrating the surpassing excellence of KNOWING Christ. Not pushing it the side and minimizing HIM so that we can somehow find our own righteousness. There is a reason Paul said he preached on only Him and Him crucified. So that their faith might be founded on HIS POWER and not through wise words.
The moment we think we need to get beyond "knowing Christ". We've forgotten the surpassing excellence found in Him.
You made an interesting statement, "One such lie, is the lie that the Pharisees were trying to "earn" Salvation by following God's Laws. This is not true."
I've not heard this perspective before so I considered it.
Here's my question to you, if the Pharisees weren't trying to earn their salvation, why did Jesus say this to them?
John 5:39 You diligently search the Scriptures because you think to have eternal life in them, and these are they bearing witness concerning Me; 40and you are not willing to come to Me, that you may have life.
It appears Jesus wanted to get their heads out of trying to simply follow Scripture and actually come to Christ. Nothing to do with creating their own Sabbath and all the other stuff you're proclaiming.
In fact, when asked about the Sabbath, Jesus had this to say concerning it:
Matt 12:7 But if you had known what this is, ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice,’ then you would not have condemned the guiltless. 8For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.”
Once again we see Jesus saying, get your head out of this idea that by you keeping the Sabbath (not a wrong one) that you're somehow following Me. He is saying look to ME, I desire mercy, I am the Lord of the Sabbath.
His point is taking them off the LAW and on to Him the bringer of Life.
It wasn't that they didn't follow the laws of God or else Paul himself wouldn't have said this:
Philippians 3:4 ...If anyone else thinks he has grounds for confidence in the flesh, I have more: 5circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin; a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee; 6as to zeal, persecuting the church; as to righteousness under the Law, faultless.
Paul states clearly that according to the flesh (by the Law) he had more confidence than anyone else. As to the Law, a Pharisee the context shows that he means he followed the Law of God (not of their own making) perfectly. He later says according to righteousness under the law he was faultless (or blameless).
Which means if ANYONE could be saved by the flesh and by the law and by works it would be THIS man Paul.
But what does Paul say next?
Philippians 3:7 But whatever was an asset to me, I count as loss for the sake of Christ. 8More than that, I count all things as loss compared to the surpassing excellence of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God on the basis of faith.
Paul who was blameless before the law according to him, who had more confidence in his works than any other, said it was complete rubbish compared to KNOWING CHRIST. He goes on to say that any RIGHTEOUSNESS of his own he tosses aside. He wants NONE of it. So that he might have only that which is available from faith IN CHRIST.
I think it's high time we start celebrating the surpassing excellence of KNOWING Christ. Not pushing it the side and minimizing HIM so that we can somehow find our own righteousness. There is a reason Paul said he preached on only Him and Him crucified. So that their faith might be founded on HIS POWER and not through wise words.
The moment we think we need to get beyond "knowing Christ". We've forgotten the surpassing excellence found in Him.
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E
Luke 14: [FONT="]34 “Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again?[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]35 It is fit neither for the soil nor for the manure pile; it is thrown out. [/FONT][FONT="]“Whoever has ears to hear, let them hear.”
[/FONT][FONT="]What is the difference between a manure pile or a pile of Sh*t? Or a pile of crap? Are they not all the same? Why did not jesus just use garbage? Was he not trying to make a point, and the only way to truly make it was to use words people seem to be offended by?
I think people need to remove logs and stop throwing stones.
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[/FONT][FONT="]What is the difference between a manure pile or a pile of Sh*t? Or a pile of crap? Are they not all the same? Why did not jesus just use garbage? Was he not trying to make a point, and the only way to truly make it was to use words people seem to be offended by?
I think people need to remove logs and stop throwing stones.
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Yep I fully get it and as I said before it's not something I would endorse at all. I think the trouble is, we anticipate what the attendees words are natural to them and how they use such words.
That's the problem assumption.
My wife and I have a ministry.
We have come alongside people who have used the above words.
To be honest we have used such words in response to conversation with them.
Mainly when they use it in a negative sense about them.
So when they say "I'm a SOB" We say "no your not an SOB"
You are right context is king.
Ps what on earth is D**N?
On second thoughts don't tell me
That's the problem assumption.
My wife and I have a ministry.
We have come alongside people who have used the above words.
To be honest we have used such words in response to conversation with them.
Mainly when they use it in a negative sense about them.
So when they say "I'm a SOB" We say "no your not an SOB"
You are right context is king.
Ps what on earth is D**N?
On second thoughts don't tell me
I hear you McGee. We all are this way.
I've had the privilege of being in the presence of some powerful men and some women too, in the Spirit. No one is perfect. But, as far as things like authority, I think God releases this only as one can handle. That He guards us this way.
Paul said two things about judging self. One was that Holy Spirit searches our heart, and the other to judge our self.
I prefer Holy Spirit to do this. He is easier on me. Plus He delivers too.
I've had the privilege of being in the presence of some powerful men and some women too, in the Spirit. No one is perfect. But, as far as things like authority, I think God releases this only as one can handle. That He guards us this way.
Paul said two things about judging self. One was that Holy Spirit searches our heart, and the other to judge our self.
I prefer Holy Spirit to do this. He is easier on me.
Plus He delivers too.
if you look at the Greek for white, you will see that's it "light" . Jesus is the Light of the world. Seeing Him as He is, we increase or light gets brighter within, and standing in His actual presence, we become as He is.
Our work? Seek Him!
also linen is no sweat. A material that is cool and does not produce sweat while moving. Another picture of our works never being acceptable for it comes from impure being. Being in Adam.
Our work? Seek Him!
also linen is no sweat. A material that is cool and does not produce sweat while moving. Another picture of our works never being acceptable for it comes from impure being. Being in Adam.
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It is simple really, it's just that traditional Christianity doesn't teach it.
Rom. 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
There was a "Law of Works" which was the Levitical Priesthood that was "Changed" in the New Covenant, and there is a
"Law of Faith" that Abraham was blessed for obeying that will be here as long as this earth is here. The Law of Works, Abraham didn't have, and was not "ADDED" to the Laws he kept until Moses some 430 years after him. (Gal. 3)
The Law of faith, "Love God" and "Love your Brethren" on which the entire Law and Prophets hang, is God's Universal Law that Eve and Cain broke.
The "Law of Works", the "ADDED" "Priesthood" which dealt with how God's Universal Law of Faith is administered and how sins were forgiven, was to be in place until the Seed should come. (Gal. 3:19)
Heb. 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,(God's Universal Law of Faith)) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
This is the Priesthood Law that was "Changed", it was created originally for only Levites, but Jesus was from the tribe of Judah, so given there was a "Change" in the Priesthood, there had to also be a change in the law regarding who could hold the position. (Jesus wasn't a Levite)
12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; (Not Levi)of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
The Jews didn't believe Jesus was that Messiah, so they continued to preach their version of the "Old" Priesthood with it's ceremonial, sacrificial "Works and deeds of the Law" for remission of sins even after Jesus died. Paul and Peter struggled with this church through out the Bible.
So the Law of Faith is still intact and part of any true repentance, this is the Law Abraham was blessed for keeping.
Gen. 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
Rom. 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law (Gentiles)shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law (Jews) shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law (of faith) are just before God, but the doers of the law (of Faith) shall be justified.
Rom. 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rev. 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
1 Cor. 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God. (Law of Faith)
These all speak to the Law of faith.
But of the Law of Works.
Gal. 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? (of Abraham)
Rom. 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works,(Law of Works he didn't even have yet) he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Gal. 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law (Law of Works) in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. (Law of Faith)
Rom. 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Gal. 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Paul doesn't contradict himself at all. Once a person rids themselves of the influence of the "Many" who Jesus warned of, and actually read and "FOLLOW" the instructions, your understanding becomes clear, just as Jesus said it would.
Rom. 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
There was a "Law of Works" which was the Levitical Priesthood that was "Changed" in the New Covenant, and there is a
"Law of Faith" that Abraham was blessed for obeying that will be here as long as this earth is here. The Law of Works, Abraham didn't have, and was not "ADDED" to the Laws he kept until Moses some 430 years after him. (Gal. 3)
The Law of faith, "Love God" and "Love your Brethren" on which the entire Law and Prophets hang, is God's Universal Law that Eve and Cain broke.
The "Law of Works", the "ADDED" "Priesthood" which dealt with how God's Universal Law of Faith is administered and how sins were forgiven, was to be in place until the Seed should come. (Gal. 3:19)
Heb. 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,(God's Universal Law of Faith)) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
This is the Priesthood Law that was "Changed", it was created originally for only Levites, but Jesus was from the tribe of Judah, so given there was a "Change" in the Priesthood, there had to also be a change in the law regarding who could hold the position. (Jesus wasn't a Levite)
12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; (Not Levi)of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
The Jews didn't believe Jesus was that Messiah, so they continued to preach their version of the "Old" Priesthood with it's ceremonial, sacrificial "Works and deeds of the Law" for remission of sins even after Jesus died. Paul and Peter struggled with this church through out the Bible.
So the Law of Faith is still intact and part of any true repentance, this is the Law Abraham was blessed for keeping.
Gen. 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
Rom. 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law (Gentiles)shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law (Jews) shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law (of faith) are just before God, but the doers of the law (of Faith) shall be justified.
Rom. 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rev. 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
1 Cor. 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God. (Law of Faith)
These all speak to the Law of faith.
But of the Law of Works.
Gal. 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? (of Abraham)
Rom. 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works,(Law of Works he didn't even have yet) he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Gal. 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law (Law of Works) in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. (Law of Faith)
Rom. 9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Gal. 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Paul doesn't contradict himself at all. Once a person rids themselves of the influence of the "Many" who Jesus warned of, and actually read and "FOLLOW" the instructions, your understanding becomes clear, just as Jesus said it would.
I have to say brother.
One of the highlights of being in this forum for the last 10 months is you.
Seeing a babe in Jesus grow.
Moving from immaturity to growing into maturity.
I have seen such a change in you and it justs brings a joy to my heart.
Keep pressing on and keep pressing in l
I genuinely believe God is going to use you.
You have been a real blessing to me.
Your brother
Bill
One of the highlights of being in this forum for the last 10 months is you.
Seeing a babe in Jesus grow.
Moving from immaturity to growing into maturity.
I have seen such a change in you and it justs brings a joy to my heart.
Keep pressing on and keep pressing in l
I genuinely believe God is going to use you.
You have been a real blessing to me.
Your brother
Bill
Yep I fully get it and as I said before it's not something I would endorse at all. I think the trouble is, we anticipate what the attendees words are natural to them and how they use such words.
That's the problem assumption.
My wife and I have a ministry.
We have come alongside people who have used the above words.
To be honest we have used such words in response to conversation with them.
Mainly when they use it in a negative sense about them.
So when they say "I'm a SOB" We say "no your not an SOB"
You are right context is king.
Ps what on earth is D**N?
On second thoughts don't tell me
That's the problem assumption.
My wife and I have a ministry.
We have come alongside people who have used the above words.
To be honest we have used such words in response to conversation with them.
Mainly when they use it in a negative sense about them.
So when they say "I'm a SOB" We say "no your not an SOB"
You are right context is king.
Ps what on earth is D**N?
On second thoughts don't tell me
I am also around people who use the words all day and also in our ministry.
Telling someone they are not a whore, slut, nymphomaniac or SOB as a minister is understandable, however, this again does not fit the context of how a self professed pastor or teacher in ministry should act.