Not By Works

[Mercy4u]

EVIDENCED to who exactly? God? He doesn't know He made us a new creation? Other believers? So our walk is a kinda report card to believers to prove to them we're saved? To the unsaved? Boy you better be careful with that one!! ONE occasion of too much drink, ONE lie, ONE fit of anger, etc... and you will get the "Aha!! you call yourself a Christian."

Evidence to myself? I am a child of the One true God, Born again. In One Hand God the Father holds me. In the other Jesus Christ. And the Holy Spirit has sealed me with His Presence unto the day of redemption! NO ONE CAN SNATCH ME FROM THOSE HANDS OR UNSEAL ME!

I DO NOT have to prove that I am a Child of God by my works, good or bad. I'm a Child of God by birth! If you have kids, tell me, are they your kids by how they obey and behave? Or are they your children because they were BORN your child?

Am I saying that a born again believer should walk in the flesh? OF COURSE NOT! Further, there are always consequences for sin. For the unsaved (eternally lost) AND the saved. My consequences range from liver disease or death by auto for drinking, STDs and possible divorce for sexual sin,etc.., to being an ineffective witness to the world in bringing the Gospel, to possible immediate PHYSICAL death, to finally a loss of eternal rewards.

STOP looking at yourself and others in judging walks! Keep your eyes on our beautiful, Blessed Savior!

Great post.

It seems that the majority of believers cannot discern the difference of salvation and service.

There are major consequences for believers if they don't follow His plan after salvation. It just isn't loss of eternal life/His Gift/salvation/the new creation.

In reality, our service is rendered worthless if we are motivated/thinking that it is required to keep or maintain His gift to us.

 

[star]

If you are advocating that the Soul sleeps in the grave, that fallacy does not EXIST.

John 11:25-26 (HCSB)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in Me, even if he dies, will live.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] Everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die—ever. Do you believe this?”


Revelation 6:9-11 (HCSB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the people slaughtered because of God’s word and the testimony they had.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] They cried out with a loud voice: “Lord, the One who is holy and true, how long until You judge and avenge our blood from those who live on the earth?”
[SUP]11 [/SUP] So a white robe was given to each of them, and they were told to rest a little while longer until ⌊the number⌋ would be completed ⌊of⌋ their fellow slaves and their brothers, who were going to be killed just as they had been.

Did you read my post thoroughly? I said we may all be dead physically in our bodies which we will be. Our souls will no longer be in our physical bodies. Hope this clears up my belief about souls.

 

[star]

Works will bring rewards, if they stand up. Works will not bring salvation, keep salvation. Believers' rewards will be judged; unbelievers lack of belief will be judged.

 

[Ralph-]

It seems that the majority of believers cannot discern the difference of salvation and service.

I agree.

It seems many, many Christians do not know that it is their fulfillment of the law when walking in the fruit of the Spirit that shows they know God and are saved, not their service to God...church attendance, getting involved in programs, witnessing, giving, being a deacon, leading a Bible study, pastoring a church, etc. You can do all those things and not be saved. But you can't walk in the Spirit according to the fruit of the Spirit and not be saved. That's why obedience is the sign you know God and will be saved when Jesus returns, not your works of service.

There are major consequences for believers if they don't follow His plan after salvation.

If you're not following his plan after salvation you may not have salvation at all. That's why we need to examine ourselves-2 Corinthians 13:5. We can tell for sure if Jesus in us and we are saved by if He is working his works in our lives. If we can't see that happening in us we have to either stop quenching the Spirit, or get the Spirit in a real salvation experience.

 

[Ralph-]

Works will bring rewards, if they stand up. Works will not bring salvation, keep salvation. Believers' rewards will be judged; unbelievers lack of belief will be judged.

Works of righteous obedience are the evidence of salvation.

Unbelievers will indeed by judged for the unrighteous things they have done. The wages of sin is death. They earn those wages.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Works of righteous obedience are the evidence of salvation.

Unbelievers will indeed by judged for the unrighteous things they have done. The wages of sin is death. They earn those wages.

God does not need proof. To think he does is sort of a cut down of God and who he is,

unbelievers will be judged for unbelief. Jesus made it clear, he who believes is not condemned, he who does not believe is condemned already

 

[Ralph-]

God does not need proof.

HE doesn't need proof. It's not for him so he can know who's saved and who's not. It's you and I who need proof so we can know FOR SURE if we're really saved or not ('make your calling and election sure'--you know that passage, right?), AND to be able to tell if the preacher/teacher in the pulpit is really of God. How a person lives is how we know both of these things. That's what the Bible says.

unbelievers will be judged for unbelief. Jesus made it clear, he who believes is not condemned, he who does not believe is condemned already

Everyone must pay the righteous penalty specified by the law for the things they've done wrong that the law says deserve death. And everyone has committed a sin worthy of death. All have fallen short of the glory of God. Unbelievers die because of their unbelief, not for it, necessarily. Only believers evade the just penalty for what they've done wrong that deserves death because through their trust in Christ He absorbs the just penalty of the death they deserve for them.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

[/B][/COLOR]HE doesn't need proof. It's not for him so he can know who's saved and who's not. But you and I need proof so we can know FOR SURE if we're really saved or not ('make your calling and election sure'), AND to be able to tell if the preacher/teacher in the pulpit is really of God. How a person lives is how we know both of these things. That's what the Bible says.

we do not need proof, Gods spirit testifies with our spirit that we are sons and daughters of God, This focus on works is leading people away from our true purpose which is to love and serve others, and does nothing but keep our focus on self.

Everyone must pay the righteous penalty specified by the law for the things they've done wrong that the law says deserve death. And everyone has committed a sin worthy of death. All have fallen short of the glory of God. Unbelievers die because of their unbelief, not for it, necessarily. Only believers evade the just penalty for what they've done wrong that deserves death because through their trust in Christ He absorbs the just penalty of the death they deserve for them.

Jesus paid the debt, Thats why he sad, all sin will be forgiven men, but blasphemy f the spirit, (rejecting the gospel)will neve be forgiven.

Again, he who believes is not condemned, he who does not believe s condemned already, Why? Because they sinned? No, because they have not believed.

 

[stonesoffire]

In the parable of the talents, the person who does nothing with the knowledge of the kingdom that he was given will be cast into the outer darkness where there will be weeping and the gnashing of teeth.

Don't be a no talent bum when Christ comes back. If you are, you will go to the fiery place, not into the kingdom when He comes back. If all you have to show for what you've heard about the kingdom of God are the words you heard, you're going to be rejected when Jesus comes back.

So what is your talent that guarantees entrance into light?

 

[stonesoffire]

My hope is built on nothing less
than JESUS BLOOD AND RIGHTEOUSNESS
I dare not trust the sweetest frame
but wholly lean on Jesus name.

On Christ the Solid
Rock I stand
all other ground
is sinking sand

ALL OTHER GROUND IS SINKING SAND

 

[Ralph-]

we do not need proof, Gods spirit testifies with our spirit that we are sons and daughters of God, This focus on works is leading people away from our true purpose which is to love and serve others, and does nothing but keep our focus on self.

You either do not know scripture, or you just don't want to see what it says. How do you look right at scripture that says to prove/show you (and others) are a son of God then say we don't have to prove/show ourselves to be sons of God?

Jesus paid the debt, Thats why he sad, all sin will be forgiven men, but blasphemy f the spirit, (rejecting the gospel)will neve be forgiven.

Again, he who believes is not condemned, he who does not believe s condemned already, Why? Because they sinned? No, because they have not believed.

No, you die because you committed sins IN your unbelief, sins for which the penalty is death. The wages of sin (violating the law) is death. You sin and you earn the wages for that sin. You do that because you do not believe.

But don't make a mountain out of a mole hill. Concentrate on being a fruit bearing planting of God when Jesus returns so you won't be rejected instead of only having a head full of silly doctrinal points, which the church is so good at doing.

Obedience is what counts. These stupid doctrinal points are a distraction from what counts-being a new creation that serves God through faith in obedience. Don't get caught when Jesus comes back with nothing but a head full of kingdom knowledge (or so-called) but which produced no fruit.

And, people, don't think your service in the church somehow makes it okay to not be found obedient to God through the Holy Spirit when Jesus returns. People who do not fulfill the law through their faith are lawless and will be rejected by Jesus for being lawless. No work of church service can ever make up for disobedience. Make sure you're born again. Know it by whether you have God working obedience in you or not. Those who obey have passed from death to life. John said that's how you know if you know God and are saved and can have confidence about the day of judgement. You do not know just because you say so. You know because you can see the Spirit in what you do. John said so.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You either do not know scripture, or you just don't want to see what it says. How do you look right at scripture that says to prove/show you (and others) are a son of God then say we don't have to prove/show ourselves to be sons of God?

Whatever. If you think a person can have faith and never do a thing the person they CLAIM to have faith in, Then you have more issues than I can help you with.

No, you die because you committed sins IN your unbelief, sins for which the penalty is death. The wages of sin (violating the law) is death.

You sin and you earn the wages for that sin. You do that because you do not believe.

But don't make a mountain out of a mole hill. Concentrate on being a fruit bearing planting of God when Jesus returns so you won't be rejected instead of silly doctrinal points, which the church is so good at doing.

Obedience is what counts. These stupid doctrinal points are a distraction from what counts-being a new creation that serves God through faith in obedience. Don't get caught when Jesus comes back with nothing but a head full of kingdom knowledge (or so-called) that you did not produce the fruit of.

And, people, don't think your service in the church somehow makes it okay to not be found obedient to God through the Holy Spirit when Jesus returns. People who do not fulfill the law through their faith are lawless and will be rejected by Jesus for being lawless. No work of church service can ever make up for disobedience. Make sure you're born again. Know it by whether you have God working obedience in you or not. Those who obey have passed from death to life. John said that's how you know if you know God and are saved and can have confidence about the day of judgement. You do not know just because you say so. You know because you can see the Spirit in what you do. John said so.

Talk about someone who does not know scripture. You were born dead. Before you commited one sin. If you are never born again, you will die in that same death no matter how many sins you commited.

We are not condemned because we sinned, Jesus said we are condemned because we did not believe.

Your argument is with God.

 

[stonesoffire]

Joh 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.


Joh 13:35 By this shall all menknow that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.


This is proof. It involves complete forgiveness towards all people because this is what God has extended to us and the whole world.

 

[stonesoffire]

Whatever. If you think a person can have faith and never do a thing the person they CLAIM to have faith in, Tghen you have mor issues than I can help you with.



Talk about someone who does not know scripture. You were born dead. Before you commited one sin. If you are never born again, you will die in that same death no matter how many sins you commited.

We are not condemned because we sinned, Jesus said we are condemned because we di dnot believe.

Your argument is with God.

Amen and amen

 

[Ralph-]

So what is your talent that guarantees entrance into light?

The word of God I've been given that produces the fruit of the kingdom. If what you know about the kingdom does not produce increase/fruit, but only remains talents/seeds of knowledge, you will be rejected when the Master returns to see what you did with the talent of knowledge he gave you.

 

[dcontroversal]

Baptize in water - Immerse in or with water

Baptize in Fire - Immerse in or with fire

Baptize in HS - Immersed with HS

Baptize in Christ, Immersed in Christ.

Baptize in his death and Burial - Immersed in his death and burial

Now take the word immerse, can also be translated placed into. So replace immerse with placed into. Ie, placed into Christ.

example. The children of Isreal were Baptized into moses, ie, they were placed into Moses, Moses being the head. Us placed into Christ, with christ being the head.

Baptise also is much deeper than dipping or sprinkling, it means complete immersion. In Ancient Greek, a person who dyed clothing or garments was called a baptiser. As the garment was immersed into the dying solution, and when it came out. The fabric was changed to a different color. A permanent change. It no longer was what it was before it was baptized,


I think the confusion is because the church took an ordinary greek word and made it into some spiritual word which has lost its origional meaning. So when people see it, they automatically assume water.

And many erroneously assume sprinkle as well which comes from a completely different Greek word and is never tied to immersion.........

 

[dcontroversal]

Great post.

It seems that the majority of believers cannot discern the difference of salvation and service.

There are major consequences for believers if they don't follow His plan after salvation. It just isn't loss of eternal life/His Gift/salvation/the new creation.

In reality, our service is rendered worthless if we are motivated/thinking that it is required to keep or maintain His gift to us.[/QUOTE\]

The bolded is not in any equation....salvation is eternal and though a man may stand naked and shamed before the Lord with works of wood, hay and stubble and very little to no reward (misthos) pay or wage for service his salvation is secure in Christ.

 

[dcontroversal]

God does not need proof. To think he does is sort of a cut down of God and who he is,

unbelievers will be judged for unbelief. Jesus made it clear, he who believes is not condemned, he who does not believe is condemned already

Amen.....He knew before the casting down of the world who would believe to the saving of the soul.....and he gives eternal life unto all who believe....not temporary life based upon service or works........

 

[BillG]

The word of God I've been given that produces the fruit of the kingdom. If what you know about the kingdom does not produce increase/fruit, but only remains talents/seeds of knowledge, you will be rejected when the Master returns to see what you did with the talent of knowledge he gave you.

One needs to be very careful here.
Not everyone who bears fruit realises they are.

Knowledge of the word does not bear fruit, by this I mean the written word.
But knowledge of the word Jesus will bear fruit.

Yet once again they may not know they bear fruit.

Matthew 25:34-40
34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ 40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’

 

[stonesoffire]

Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons ofGod, even to them that believe on his name:

John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Galatians 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Philippians 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

1 John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.


Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.



[h=2]Sons and Heirs[/h]Gal 4:1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
Gal 4:2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.
Gal 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Gal 4:7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

If one is under law, then that one is just a servant. Serving God is not what we are born for.

Sons are we who have received the benefits of Gods great salvation through giving His Son for us even while we were yet ungodly. Without Him.

Freely! And works are those that flow from our Spirit. Praying for our enemies would be evidence to me of Sonship, and goes with the new commandment.

Bitterness will poison what should be Living water flowing from our inner man.

Forgive!