The Rapture

[Bladerunner]

Hello DiscipleDave,



The problem is that, what you are claiming is not stated in scripture. Therefore, it does not match up with the word of God and He is not going to contradict himself. That said, it would make no sense for it to be said of supposed children that "they did not defile themselves with women. It instead demonstrates that the 144,000 are adult males.

In regards to what you say God is telling you, it must be in agreement with his written word and that because we have no way of checking to see if what you are claiming is the truth. It would be by your word alone.

Actually, I have been researching that very subject off and on and it seems there is a very good possiblility the 144,000 were Children...I'll not go no further than that for now....

Ahwatukee, Hope you and yours have a blessed week ahead of you.

Blade

 

[Ellsworth1943]

Actually, I have been researching that very subject off and on and it seems there is a very good possiblility the 144,000 were Children...I'll not go no further than that for now....

Ahwatukee, Hope you and yours have a blessed week ahead of you.

Blade

I agree. But where did they come from?

 

[Hizikyah]

Actually, I have been researching that very subject off and on and it seems there is a very good possiblility the 144,000 were Children...I'll not go no further than that for now....

Ahwatukee, Hope you and yours have a blessed week ahead of you.

Blade

Do youtthink they were children because they were virgins?

I dont think they were or had to be be literal physical virgins, but rather never joined to a false way of worship. As Scripture and particularly Revelation shows a "harlot or whore" as false worshiping group.

 

[heartofdavid]

Actually, I have been researching that very subject off and on and it seems there is a very good possiblility the 144,000 were Children...I'll not go no further than that for now....

Ahwatukee, Hope you and yours have a blessed week ahead of you.

Blade

No,they are men.
It says "they were not defiled by women....they are virgins"

 

[heartofdavid]

I agree. But where did they come from?

they are men ,not children.
They are Jews out of the 12 tribes.

 

[heartofdavid]

OK Dippidy Doo.
Why the large white space?

In the Bible those speaking in tongues were speaking in the language of the person's own language. However that isn't the case today. One person will speak in tongues and another will translate. The language is not a language spoken anywhere. So why is what is practiced today different? Why doesn't the Holy Spirit act the same for everybody for all times?

Paul said "my spirit prays,but my mind is unfruitful."

Paul did't know what he was praying. He said only a translator was needed in an assembly.

Under your "known language" scenario,only some would need a translator,but if it is a known language the Holy Spirit is not needed.
We see translated sentence by sentence preaching from pastors or evangelists all the time with no supernatural Holy Spirit unction at all.

Paul KNEW several languages. Greek,Hebrew,Latin,etc.

What was he doing praying in tongues when alone?????

 

[Bladerunner]

Paul said "my spirit prays,but my mind is unfruitful."

Paul did't know what he was praying. He said only a translator was needed in an assembly.

Under your "known language" scenario,only some would need a translator,but if it is a known language the Holy Spirit is not needed.
We see translated sentence by sentence preaching from pastors or evangelists all the time with no supernatural Holy Spirit unction at all.

Paul KNEW several languages. Greek,Hebrew,Latin,etc.

What was he doing praying in tongues when alone?????

Tongues was for the one who was receiving the word of God. The Apostles spoke in what they called tongues. What happened is they spoke in their own native language (Hebrew) and all the gentiles regardless of what country they were from could understand what the apostles were saying because they were hearing it in their own language.

Much like the Star Trek communicators, with allowed the person who was hearing to understand what was being said even though it would have been in a different language.

Hope that makes sense???

 

[heartofdavid]

Tongues was for the one who was receiving the word of God. The Apostles spoke in what they called tongues. What happened is they spoke in their own native language (Hebrew) and all the gentiles regardless of what country they were from could understand what the apostles were saying because they were hearing it in their own language.

Much like the Star Trek communicators, with allowed the person who was hearing to understand what was being said even though it would have been in a different language.

Hope that makes sense???

Nope
Paul said "i speak in tongues more than any of you." and " worship in the spirit ( tongues) and with the understanding" and "...my mind is unfruitful but my spirit prays"

" ....i would rather speak a thousand words with the understanding than a few in tongues if there be no interpreter."
Makes no sense that it was a known language . He would be without caring that foriegners did not understand. See that?
Paul wrote to beleivers also baptised in the Holy Spirit.
Paul spoke several languages,so the notion he was operating in known languages further diminishes the cessatiiniste falsehoods.

 

[tanakh]

Tongues was for the one who was receiving the word of God. The Apostles spoke in what they called tongues. What happened is they spoke in their own native language (Hebrew) and all the gentiles regardless of what country they were from could understand what the apostles were saying because they were hearing it in their own language.

Much like the Star Trek communicators, with allowed the person who was hearing to understand what was being said even though it would have been in a different language.

Hope that makes sense???

I get your example but the Babel Fish in the Hitchhikers guide is more biblical. I wouldnt want a Fish in my Ear though!

 

[Endoscopy]

Are you saying that to offend, or are you saying it because you are amazed that people do not know what eschatology means?



If God has told me what is going to happen in the future, why would there be a need for me to look it up?



What then? if i have studied the major and minor prophets extensively, that it was all in vain because i did not know what it was called? Really? If God revealed to me things concerning Daniel, Revelation, Isaiah, and many other prophecies. What do i care what people of this generation CALL IT? Isn't having the knowledge better than what one is called because they are learning that knowledge?



Would it be a problem at all if God reveals to you what they are?

IF God tells me who the 144,000 actually are, and tells me all about them, why they are sealed, what their purpose is, tell me all about them. Why would i care about what people are Called who study about the 144,000 sealed. i know about the 144,000 and don't need to hear other peoples views, or theology, or ideas, or opinions on that matter, when God has told me about that matter.

God has told me what is going to happen in the future. Why then would i have a need to hear what others say is going to happen in the future, when God has already told me what is going to happen. Why would i need to understand or know what the word eschatology means?



i merely believe God and what He told me, why would i seek other information from people and not from God?



Oh, and your upset that i did not go and see each four different end time views? You are still not understanding what i am saying. If God has told me what is going to happen in the future, why on earth would i go to a site to see what they say is going to happen in the future? Now the only reason i can conceive doing such a thing, is to see what false doctrines they hold on to, which of the four different views lines up with what God told me. Other than that, i can't see going to that site to see the four different views of end times, when i already KNOW what is going to happen because it is what God told me.



No, i'm pretty sure i keep telling you that i KNOW the TRUTH concerning what is going to happen in the future, therefore it is not ignorance. For some reason though it seems important to you that i seek out the knowledge of the four different views of end time events given by people who are learned, scholars, and what have you. But you don't seem to understand what i have been saying. If i have knowledge from God about the end times, why would i have a need to go and learn about the four different views of end time events, Why?



Again, you seem to not understand that i do not need to be educated on end time events, when i have been pretty clear that i know end time events because God told me. Is this one of those situations where Jesus says they have ears but do not hear?



What i know is what God told me.



i too have done a lot of study on end times event 30 years ago, all of dung compared to what God told me



Sorry, i really don't care what the views are of men. i only care what God told me. Now granted i will listen to the views of men and what they believe, when they present it to me. But for me to seek out the four different views of end times, i have no need. Because i know what is going to happen because God told me His view.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

It is obvious to the casual observer that you are saying you know what the end times are going to be. I just love it that you say God told you what will happen. God spoke to you to inform just you about eschatology.

You do understand that people who say that are normally cult leaders. They like you claim to have special Revelation directly from God. You do understand that those who claim this have always been candidates for the men in the white coats to come and take you where the grass is green etc.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l-lJZiqZaGA

You really think God came and spoke directly to you??

 

[Bladerunner]

Nope
Paul said "i speak in tongues more than any of you." and " worship in the spirit ( tongues) and with the understanding" and "...my mind is unfruitful but my spirit prays"

" ....i would rather speak a thousand words with the understanding than a few in tongues if there be no interpreter."
Makes no sense that it was a known language . He would be without caring that foriegners did not understand. See that?
Paul wrote to beleivers also baptised in the Holy Spirit.
Paul spoke several languages,so the notion he was operating in known languages further diminishes the cessatiiniste falsehoods.

Think about it..



My Idea of tongues:----Your message in Hebrew and the Holy Spirit gives you the gift of Tongues..... All of the Below hear you message at the same time in their own language.
-------Person listening to you hears it in English-------
------Person listening to you hears it in French--------
------Person listening to you hears it in German-------
-------Person listening to you hears it in Russian------


Your Idea of Tongues:Your Message in Russian------Only the Russian can understand you.
Repeat your message
Your Message in English-------Only the Englishman can understand you.
Repeat Your Message
Your Message in French-------Only the Frenchman can understand you.
Repeat Your Message
Your Message in German------Only the German can understand you.

Which one would be better........... The person who hears the message is the receiver of Tongues.


There by the Pentecostals cannot really speak in tongues, just jibberish and nobody understands them.
...

 

[Endoscopy]

Think about it..



My Idea of tongues:----Your message in Hebrew and the Holy Spirit gives you the gift of Tongues..... All of the Below hear you message at the same time in their own language.
-------Person listening to you hears it in English-------
------Person listening to you hears it in French--------
------Person listening to you hears it in German-------
-------Person listening to you hears it in Russian------


Your Idea of Tongues:Your Message in Russian------Only the Russian can understand you.
Repeat your message
Your Message in English-------Only the Englishman can understand you.
Repeat Your Message
Your Message in French-------Only the Frenchman can understand you.
Repeat Your Message
Your Message in German------Only the German can understand you.

Which one would be better........... The person who hears the message is the receiver of Tongues.


There by the Pentecostals cannot really speak in tongues, just jibberish and nobody understands them.
...

You are assuming facts not in evidence. In most Pentacostal churches it is a requirement for a person to to interpret what the person speaking is saying.

 

[Bladerunner]

You are assuming facts not in evidence. In most Pentacostal churches it is a requirement for a person to to interpret what the person speaking is saying.

It is hard to interpret jibberish but I guess one could say anything in this case.

 

[Endoscopy]

It is hard to interpret jibberish but I guess one could say anything in this case.

The point is that an interpreter provides proof of the person not speaking gibberish oh foolish one. If no interpreter is present they are to stop. Proof that it is not gibberish was done by recording a person speaking in tongues and playing it for multiple interpretors and having them all say the same thing about the recording. Tests done to verify the facts about speaking in tongues.

 

[Ahwatukee]

It is hard to interpret jibberish but I guess one could say anything in this case.

Especially if you belong to a denomination where the belief is that, unless you speak in tongues you don't have the Holy Spirit and are therefore are not saved. So what you get is the entire congregation speaking in tongues. And that because no one wants to be left out.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The point is that an interpreter provides proof of the person not speaking gibberish oh foolish one. If no interpreter is present they are to stop. Proof that it is not gibberish was done by recording a person speaking in tongues and playing it for multiple interpretors and having them all say the same thing about the recording. Tests done to verify the facts about speaking in tongues.

How did a thread on the Rapture get mired in this?

Getting back to the Resurrection/Rapture, we are not told what will be the common language of the saints in Heaven, so that everyone can communicate effectively and there will be no language barriers. But that is a totally different subject.

 

[lovnkitties]

It is plainly written in the scriptures that tongues are translatable languages not foreknown by the speaker. Acts 2:6-8 tells us "And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together. and were bewildered, because they were each one hearing them speak in his own language. And they were amazed and marveled, saying,'Why, are not all these who are speaking Galileans? And how is it that we each hear them in our own language to which we we were born?'" So what had happened directly previous to this? Acts 2:2 "And suddenly there came from heaven a noise like a rushing wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance," Languages, translatable languages, dialects. This also happened at Cornelius' house Acts 10:44-48

 

[MarcR]

DiscipleDave quote;




There is absolutely nothing in Rev 14 or I Thes 4 that teaches, or even implies that there is a third coming. NONE.
Rev 14 is a description of His Second Coming.
I Thes 4 is also a description of His Second Coming.

Again, there are no Scriptures that teach a third coming. Nor is there any Scriptures that teach He goes back to Heaven after the Second Coming.



The doctrine i teach is what God told me.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

Indeed there are only two comings of Jesus. At the rapture (1Th 4) Jesus does not return to earth. The Church ascends to meet Him in the air, without his ever coming to Earth. In Hebrew thought, the atmosphere is part of the heavens; so Jesus never leaves heaven at the time of the rapture.

 

[Inquistor]

Indeed there are only two comings of Jesus. At the rapture (1Th 4) Jesus does not return to earth. The Church ascends to meet Him in the air, without his ever coming to Earth. In Hebrew thought, the atmosphere is part of the heavens; so Jesus never leaves heaven at the time of the rapture.

What do you mean by "Jesus does not return to earth?" His feet come down on the Mount of Olives!!!


https://www.alltheinternet.com/?q=Jesus+touches+down+on+the+Mount+of+Olives&ref=12192017133345&p=

 

[lovnkitties]

I think you should be very carful who you yoke up with, not every denomination teaches sound biblical doctrine. Let me use my late friend as an example. For years I had tried to present to him the clear and simple teaching of the gospel of Christ and subsequently lead him to the Lord. Many times he would express interest and even at time approach me with questions concerning his salvation, but when the conversation got to the point of him believing and excepting Jesus Christ as his saviour, he just couldn't go through with it, he would say something like," well that's just not the way mommer-n-them done it, I need to speak in tongs and have the evidence of the baptism of the Holy Ghost before I can get save". For all those years the Charismatics had him believing in a works based salvation and he was on his way to a devils hell. July 4, 2017, I went see him around 7:00pm and found him lying on his carport in his underwear passed out.

After a few minutes I was able to get him up and into his house, where he wanted to talk about getting saved at which time I was finally and graciously able to lead to the Lord. The next day we took him to the hospital and after two day he passed away.
I believe he's in heaven now, however, I cant help think what blessings and a different life he could have experienced had he not been confused and miss-guided concerning salvation by false teachings. So yes, I think we should pick our associations carefully and expose false and demandable and deceitful teachings regardless of the denomination.

Ok, it seems you are not responding to me or my post. My post shared scripture that showed tongues as translatable languages, dialects that were not foreknown by the speaker for the purpose of preaching Jesus, His gospel that saves. Spanish, Italian, Greek, English for example.