Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
New International Version 1984 Malachi 2:17 The Day of Judgment You have wearied the Lord with your words. “How have we wearied him?” you ask. By saying, “ALL WHO DO EVIL ARE GOOD INTHE EYES OF THE LORD, AND HE IS PLEASED WITH THEM” or “Where is the God of justice?”
Malachi 3:13-18 “You have said harsh things against me,” says the Lord. “Yet you ask, ‘What have we said against you?’ “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. WHAT DID WE GAIN BY CARRYING OUT HIS REQUIREMENTS and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty? But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.’” Then THOSE WHO FEARED THE LORD talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the Lord and HONORED HIS NAME. “They will be mine,” says the Lord Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. And you will again see the DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE RIGHTEOUS AND THE WICKED, between those WHO SERVE GOD and those WHO DO NOT.
Matthew 28:19-20 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and TEACHING THEM TO OBEY EVERYTHING I HAVE COMMANDED YOU. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: FEAR GOD AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS, for this is the whole duty of man. For GOD WILL BRING EVERY DEED INTO JUDGMENT, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil.
Malachi 3:13-18 “You have said harsh things against me,” says the Lord. “Yet you ask, ‘What have we said against you?’ “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. WHAT DID WE GAIN BY CARRYING OUT HIS REQUIREMENTS and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty? But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.’” Then THOSE WHO FEARED THE LORD talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the Lord and HONORED HIS NAME. “They will be mine,” says the Lord Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. And you will again see the DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE RIGHTEOUS AND THE WICKED, between those WHO SERVE GOD and those WHO DO NOT.
Matthew 28:19-20 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and TEACHING THEM TO OBEY EVERYTHING I HAVE COMMANDED YOU. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: FEAR GOD AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS, for this is the whole duty of man. For GOD WILL BRING EVERY DEED INTO JUDGMENT, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil.
If the things you are speaking are true, then why did Jesus tell His disciples they were clean by the Word that they were given....but, their feet needed to be washed. And if He did not do this, if the disciples could not allow God to minister to them, which is humility in truth....will make one humble and not prideful that he/she cannot accept ministry from one more worthy than self....than that one has no part in Him.
For the definition of grace found as given to Noah? And to those under law? Is for one who is superior, bends his knee in kindness to one inferior.
A very humbling experience.
This is the root of grace, and then comes Holy Spirit. Who we depend on for completed salvation in our soul and body.
For the definition of grace found as given to Noah? And to those under law? Is for one who is superior, bends his knee in kindness to one inferior.
A very humbling experience.
This is the root of grace, and then comes Holy Spirit. Who we depend on for completed salvation in our soul and body.
Last edited:
J
So making it your mission,had nothing wrong to it?
but dcontroversal him getting rid of his account pleases you because you sought it,linked it,then waited to see his reaction,that is just an attempt to provoke someone to anger,nothing more,you say it had value to be known by people but really you mean it had profit for you,because if you are not looked into and he is,then you look decent by comparison,it's an old fashioned give one sided evidence scheme,people did that back in the salem witch trials,and it still is apparently popular but pathetic as always,it's like in some countries where a person can be convicted with planted evidence while the innocent party can't prove innocence because there is no evidence on their part because they weren't allowed to defend themselves before being brought to trial and then when that defence finally comes the court has made up their mind by that time.(he so happened to not be here when you posted the link a second time and "brought attention to it")
both of you are not innocent entirely but who can actually admit they did wrong? dcontroversal did concerning his account.
But where is your repentance?
You just brush this off as if you did nothing intentionally to him,even a mod deleting the first post wouldn't hinder you,that is someone on a mission desperately not a person on a mission for God spiritually.
but dcontroversal him getting rid of his account pleases you because you sought it,linked it,then waited to see his reaction,that is just an attempt to provoke someone to anger,nothing more,you say it had value to be known by people but really you mean it had profit for you,because if you are not looked into and he is,then you look decent by comparison,it's an old fashioned give one sided evidence scheme,people did that back in the salem witch trials,and it still is apparently popular but pathetic as always,it's like in some countries where a person can be convicted with planted evidence while the innocent party can't prove innocence because there is no evidence on their part because they weren't allowed to defend themselves before being brought to trial and then when that defence finally comes the court has made up their mind by that time.(he so happened to not be here when you posted the link a second time and "brought attention to it")
both of you are not innocent entirely but who can actually admit they did wrong? dcontroversal did concerning his account.
But where is your repentance?
You just brush this off as if you did nothing intentionally to him,even a mod deleting the first post wouldn't hinder you,that is someone on a mission desperately not a person on a mission for God spiritually.
1 Corinthians 15:51-55, “See, I speak a secret to you: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible has to put on incorruption, and this mortal to put on immortality. And when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall come to be the word that has been written, “Death is swallowed up in overcoming. O Death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your overcoming?”
Hebrews 10:36, “For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of Yah you may receive what is promised.”
Hebrews 3:14, “For we have become partakers of Messiah if we hold fast the beginning of our trust firm to the end.”
James 1:12, "Blessed is the man who does endure trial, for when he has been proved, he shall receive the crown of life which the Master has promised to those who love Him."
Revelation 3:21, “To him who overcomes I shall give to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.”
Revelation 12:11, “And they overcame him because of the Blood of the Lamb, and because of the Word of their witness, and they did not love their lives to the death."
Hebrews 10:36, “For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of Yah you may receive what is promised.”
Hebrews 3:14, “For we have become partakers of Messiah if we hold fast the beginning of our trust firm to the end.”
James 1:12, "Blessed is the man who does endure trial, for when he has been proved, he shall receive the crown of life which the Master has promised to those who love Him."
Revelation 3:21, “To him who overcomes I shall give to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.”
Revelation 12:11, “And they overcame him because of the Blood of the Lamb, and because of the Word of their witness, and they did not love their lives to the death."
I think under the law means dead. There is a commandment contained in the law that says those who transgress God's Law dies. The wages of sin is death. This is called the "Law of sin". We are freed from this law which was against us, Christ nailed it to the cross. I think it is not true to preach that no longer being under the law means we are no longer to consider it as our instruction. Being free from the Law of sin, does not mean being free from the rest of God's instruction which defines sin. IMHO.
And the whole concept of the New Covenant was written long before Jesus the man was born. Jeremiah was instructed to write that God would write HIS Laws on our heart. So His Laws are His Laws, right? That would include His Sabbaths, and 10 Commandments for sure. He also said HE would take our sins away and remember them no more. A job that was ordained for a Levite Priest. He said He would write His Laws, so no more administration by the Levitical Priesthood.
Heb. 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,)
For these reasons I believe the Mainstream preaching regarding the New Covenant has been corrupted many years ago, the same way God's Laws were corrupted by the Pharisees hundreds of years before Jesus was sent to set them straight.
God prophesied, through His Prophets, a time when we no longer relied on a "Priesthood" to filter His Word, or the Levitical Sacrificial "works and Deeds of the Law" for remission of sins.
The administration and cleansing of sins, the Covenant God made with the Children of Israel that was ADDED to God's Laws, "Until the Seed should come" this was the old covenant. It was for the Jews. But the New Covenant:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.(Gentiles)
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
This was the Levitical Priesthood and it's administration of God's Laws, and for the rituals for cleansing of sin which was forbidden for the "Heathen" to participate in.
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; Jew and Gentile, all one under God's New Covenant.
But there is no scriptural support for the preaching that God's Definition of sin or instructions in righteousness had ever changed. Paul speaks to the Levitical Priesthood ceremonial, sacrificial "Works and deeds of the Law" for remission of sins, but he doesn't mean by that, the definition of sin.
This is a huge problem in Mainstream Christian understanding of what Paul preached and if one doesn't get this foundation right, it makes Paul sound as if he is preaching against Peter, against Jesus and Moses:
and sometimes against himself. Rom. 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Paul himself corrects any doubts that I had about his teaching in:
Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. (All of them, God showed no difference)
21 For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about to kill me.(Same as they did Jesus and the Prophets who came before Him)
22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:
Anyway, very good topic, I am an uneducated man and sometimes have difficulty explaining myself. I hope HE has given me utterance sufficient for you to understand the point on my heart.
And the whole concept of the New Covenant was written long before Jesus the man was born. Jeremiah was instructed to write that God would write HIS Laws on our heart. So His Laws are His Laws, right? That would include His Sabbaths, and 10 Commandments for sure. He also said HE would take our sins away and remember them no more. A job that was ordained for a Levite Priest. He said He would write His Laws, so no more administration by the Levitical Priesthood.
Heb. 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,)
For these reasons I believe the Mainstream preaching regarding the New Covenant has been corrupted many years ago, the same way God's Laws were corrupted by the Pharisees hundreds of years before Jesus was sent to set them straight.
God prophesied, through His Prophets, a time when we no longer relied on a "Priesthood" to filter His Word, or the Levitical Sacrificial "works and Deeds of the Law" for remission of sins.
The administration and cleansing of sins, the Covenant God made with the Children of Israel that was ADDED to God's Laws, "Until the Seed should come" this was the old covenant. It was for the Jews. But the New Covenant:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.(Gentiles)
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
This was the Levitical Priesthood and it's administration of God's Laws, and for the rituals for cleansing of sin which was forbidden for the "Heathen" to participate in.
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; Jew and Gentile, all one under God's New Covenant.
But there is no scriptural support for the preaching that God's Definition of sin or instructions in righteousness had ever changed. Paul speaks to the Levitical Priesthood ceremonial, sacrificial "Works and deeds of the Law" for remission of sins, but he doesn't mean by that, the definition of sin.
This is a huge problem in Mainstream Christian understanding of what Paul preached and if one doesn't get this foundation right, it makes Paul sound as if he is preaching against Peter, against Jesus and Moses:
and sometimes against himself. Rom. 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Paul himself corrects any doubts that I had about his teaching in:
Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. (All of them, God showed no difference)
21 For these causes the Jews caught me in the temple, and went about to kill me.(Same as they did Jesus and the Prophets who came before Him)
22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:
Anyway, very good topic, I am an uneducated man and sometimes have difficulty explaining myself. I hope HE has given me utterance sufficient for you to understand the point on my heart.
Last edited:
Gal 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
Circumcision on the 8th day is what the commandment was to Israel, to newborn babes. Something very important for it's the right to be of Israel and partake of the covenants.
We who are born from above are circumcised of flesh by the crucifixion, but it's the newness of life as a man/woman in the Spirit. There is flesh, or human nature removed and then sealed, chosen, by Father. The right to the new covenant.
No no longer under laws of carnal men, but of the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. A position that is permanent, but then is worked out in our soul life, and our body to bring the total man into the Kingdom of heaven. Note: the Kingdom of God comes within us at Pentecost where Holy Spirit reigns and teaches us of life through the Son of God. Jesus showed us Father, Spirit reveals Jesus.
The goal? The image of God that we were first created for.
Circumcision on the 8th day is what the commandment was to Israel, to newborn babes. Something very important for it's the right to be of Israel and partake of the covenants.
We who are born from above are circumcised of flesh by the crucifixion, but it's the newness of life as a man/woman in the Spirit. There is flesh, or human nature removed and then sealed, chosen, by Father. The right to the new covenant.
No no longer under laws of carnal men, but of the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus. A position that is permanent, but then is worked out in our soul life, and our body to bring the total man into the Kingdom of heaven. Note: the Kingdom of God comes within us at Pentecost where Holy Spirit reigns and teaches us of life through the Son of God. Jesus showed us Father, Spirit reveals Jesus.
The goal? The image of God that we were first created for.
You are failing to recognise the Melchizadek priesthood, which is the picture if not the actual picture of the Son of God, and the sons of God being the priests and kings of the High Priest, Jesus.
The Levitical priesthood is no more. No temple.
Whether or or not it will actually be again remains to be seen.
The revelation given to Paul was of an inheritance, or the new covenant being a will that was enforced at the Crucifixion, the Sons who received His Spirit receiving the right of all that Jesus was. Not one person but the many sons brought to glory. All together making up the body of Christ.
Abraham's sacrifice of each animal which God then gives the promise of the seed of many nations being heritage, children of faith, was culminated, finished by the sacrifice of Jesus.
Look at covenant in the Hebrew. You will see the story. If you don't see it, for it's revelation, let me know. Or PennEd for I know he has seen this too in his studies.
Which would you prefer, law written on your old man/ heart? Or being born of the nature of God?
Abraham's sacrifice of each animal which God then gives the promise of the seed of many nations being heritage, children of faith, was culminated, finished by the sacrifice of Jesus.
Look at covenant in the Hebrew. You will see the story. If you don't see it, for it's revelation, let me know. Or PennEd for I know he has seen this too in his studies.
Which would you prefer, law written on your old man/ heart? Or being born of the nature of God?