What I don't understand us how you can say this without reading all the posts we are making? Obviously you aren't!
Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
What I don't understand us how you can say this without reading all the posts we are making? Obviously you aren't!
Train tracks derailed somewhere in the thinking. There's the puzzle to find it and address.
Only Adam has the means of reproduction. Eve is receiver. The fall would only pass by Adam.
I mean just think.....if sin was not present then how could EVE lie or embellish what God had said...either or would have been sin....the bible does not contain everything stated between God and men??
I think sin began with Adam. But, iniquity was found in Lucifer. Not sure if sin was not present, because sin was at their doorstep by him being in the garden. IMO.
My lovely wife is Thai, raised in Thailand by her Mom and Dad and steeped in the religion of Buddhism; "a merit based faith." Praise God He saved my wife and we have been living a life of faith in Jesus Christ for the past 15yrs. All other religion's in the world are merit based; which are the things that we do that bring us closer to God and have peace with the world around us. It is a false system of works created by man. All of the traditions and lighting of candles and burning of incense and making offerings to the Monks are unsettling to the Christian; but to the Thai people it gives them a false sense of hope and security for their future.
Point: Christianity say's you could never restore your broken relationship with God because of the sin of Adam and Eve's the Garden of Eden; but God already had a plan to restore our relationship, by sending His son to take our place on the cross as the sacrificial lamb to pay for sin once for all, praise God. Christianity is the God who created the universe and all things in it; coming all the way down from heaven to fix our hopeless problem. All other religion's are merit based, (what I do to get to God), it is a false system of works and can never save your soul.
So then if God say's those that believe on His Son will be saved and those who don't are condemned already; why are so many saved Christian's wanting to go back to a "merit based" system of, works salvation, pride, pride, pride. You could not save your self for one second from Gods judgment,
so how is it you think you can keep yourselves saved.
The Apostle Paul say's if anyone has a reason to boast, it is him;
Philippians:3:3-9
3) "For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh.
4) though I myself have reasons for such confidence.
If someone else thinks they have reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more:
5) circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee;
6) as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for righteousness based on the law, faultless.
7) But whatever were gains to me I now consider loss for the sake of Christ.
8) What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ
9) and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith.
Galatians3:3
"Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?"
True Gospel
Point: Christianity say's you could never restore your broken relationship with God because of the sin of Adam and Eve's the Garden of Eden; but God already had a plan to restore our relationship, by sending His son to take our place on the cross as the sacrificial lamb to pay for sin once for all, praise God. Christianity is the God who created the universe and all things in it; coming all the way down from heaven to fix our hopeless problem. All other religion's are merit based, (what I do to get to God), it is a false system of works and can never save your soul.
So then if God say's those that believe on His Son will be saved and those who don't are condemned already; why are so many saved Christian's wanting to go back to a "merit based" system of, works salvation, pride, pride, pride. You could not save your self for one second from Gods judgment,
so how is it you think you can keep yourselves saved.
The Apostle Paul say's if anyone has a reason to boast, it is him;
Philippians:3:3-9
3) "For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh.
4) though I myself have reasons for such confidence.
If someone else thinks they have reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more:
5) circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee;
6) as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for righteousness based on the law, faultless.
7) But whatever were gains to me I now consider loss for the sake of Christ.
8) What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ
9) and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith.
Galatians3:3
"Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?"
True Gospel
Last edited:
Very good point. Not sure how anyone can refute it.
I found something interesting today, brother. I hope you do not mind if I Share it here. It proves that at some point in his work, JOSEPHUS became a CHRISTIAN:
Here is that useful quote from the Jewish Historian Josephus, about our LORD, Jesus Christ. Yes. there are four other men with the name Jesus that Josephus talks about in his writings, but this quote is clearly about the Messiah, our Lord, and it clarifies that Josephus, before He wrote this, had become a Christian.
THE COMPLETE WORKS OF FLAVIUS JOSEPHUS
THE ANTIQUITIES OF THE JEWS
BOOK 18
CHAPTER 3
SECTION 3
3. Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.
The Works of Flavius Josephus.
Last edited:
Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost.
This is when we are first saved,for our righteousness is as filthy rags,our works mean nothing,so we can only have faith,for anything we do apart from Christ will not save us,for without the Spirit there is no regeneration,and renewing of the person.
But after we receive the Spirit we are spiritual,and not fleshy,so it is a different circumstance than when we first were saved,and this is supposed to happen.
1Co 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
1Co 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
Gal 6:3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.
Gal 6:4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.
Gal 6:5 For every man shall bear his own burden.
Gal 6:6 Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.
Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Gal 6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
Mat 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Act 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
When we first come to Christ it is of faith,and believing,but when we receive the Spirit it is about faith,believing,and actions by the Spirit.
This is when we are first saved,for our righteousness is as filthy rags,our works mean nothing,so we can only have faith,for anything we do apart from Christ will not save us,for without the Spirit there is no regeneration,and renewing of the person.
But after we receive the Spirit we are spiritual,and not fleshy,so it is a different circumstance than when we first were saved,and this is supposed to happen.
1Co 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
1Co 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.
Gal 6:3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.
Gal 6:4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.
Gal 6:5 For every man shall bear his own burden.
Gal 6:6 Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.
Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Gal 6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
Mat 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Act 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
When we first come to Christ it is of faith,and believing,but when we receive the Spirit it is about faith,believing,and actions by the Spirit.
stones - The truth is we share perspectives on the Lord and our walk.
I do not doubt you hold a mixture of different positions, and feel this justifies and makes
you innocent of lots of different failures.
Listening to Jesus is simple. Let His words speak to your heart as they are, in the simplicity
of how they were spoken. It is always sin that causes our rebellion.
And if one gets the order of authority wrong, it is all in vain, and empty.
Sin not present in Adam and EVE is what I meant.....
Originally Posted by dcontroversal
I mean just think.....if sin was not present then how could EVE lie or embellish what God had said...either or would have been sin....the bible does not contain everything stated between God and men??
They need to do this because in their mind they are Gods elect and none can stand in their
way, especially not someone who speaks from Gods word.
I remember when I first joined cc some of the commentators wanted to believe the Holy Spirit
would drive all before them, except when this did not happen. If one follows a heavy shepherding
fellowship, I suppose this actually becomes a reality, but it is not the Lord doing it, but man.
Am not sure what kind of substance sin is. Lol We can describe the effects of it, but to describe it exactly? Darkness?
A law? Or the Word of the Lord spoken? Disobedience is my best shot at it.
They never disobeyed so there there was no sin, until temptation showed up, so it would be true that eve was just stating what Adam told her. Not a lie. Am assuming he told her not to touch it in order to protect. IMO.
Deep thinker huh Dcon? Good questions!
A law? Or the Word of the Lord spoken? Disobedience is my best shot at it.
They never disobeyed so there there was no sin, until temptation showed up, so it would be true that eve was just stating what Adam told her. Not a lie. Am assuming he told her not to touch it in order to protect. IMO.
Deep thinker huh Dcon? Good questions!
When we first come to Christ it is of faith and believing; "And", it continues that way; you have created for yourself a false system of works based salvation which can never save your soul, but "God Can"
Sin not present in Adam and EVE is what I meant.....
Originally Posted by dcontroversal
Most miss the most important thing.
Adam and Eve had to trust God, because they did not know the difference between
good and evil, just existing. Taking of the tree of knowledge is about responsibility and
the price of responsibility, death, if you follow sin.
God warned them they would die if they chose this path, but they took it anyway and
disregarded Gods warning. Some groups hold that in Christ we have returned to Adams
innocense, but you cannot undo the knowledge and responsibility of morality and its
consequences. Ofcourse if you claim Jesus got ride of the consequences so we are children
in a sand pit, then anything is possible, but that is clearly not true. You just have to look
at the abuses leaders get up to when they gain a position of respect, it is a wonder any
survive this roller coaster.