Not By Works

[NoNameMcgee]

Hey bro, just a question, not saying your wrong I just want to see what you think,



How do we resolve this statement in a way that it is not teaching works?

well its semantics
and addressing a specific situation.....

we are supposedly among brothers and sisters here...

if you say you were wicked and lived in sin....
then found God

and nothing changed

but now you feel safe
and good

and justify your sin through Gods grace.....

id say this person is lacking in faith and its evident by their works


but
works dont earn salvation



lets say this person found out they were going to die in a week

due to illness


and they seek God with what little time they have


EVEN without a bible in hand

is it possible for this person to be saved?

id say if its in Gods will
he could easily save them

but it would be through a true faith

 

[dcontroversal]

Revelation 3


And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. 2Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. 3Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. 4Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. 5He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. 6He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.​

SO what.....a collective letter or statement written unto a church BODY concerning their collective authority as a church has no bearing upon the individual salvation of each member, nor does it play any bearing upon their eternal stance before GOD based upon faith.

AND like JESUS said....within every body of believe the enemy sows tares.....and like John said....WHAT is it that overcomes this world......not our works.......EVEN OUR FAITH.....

 

[loveme1]

from how i see it

both of you believe

we dont earn salvation of our own works


but true faith in God will lead to him giving us gifts

and the Holy spirit will break us from sins

and cause us to do good works
(through His good works in us)

and "faith" that doesnt lead to a rebirth is a dead faith


and i agree with both of those points

Is the gift not Everlasting life?

do you mean gifts of the Spirit as in tongues etc?

 

[loveme1]

SO what.....a collective letter or statement written unto a church BODY concerning their collective authority as a church has no bearing upon the individual salvation of each member, nor does it play any bearing upon their eternal stance before GOD based upon faith.

AND like JESUS said....within every body of believe the enemy sows tares.....and like John said....WHAT is it that overcomes this world......not our works.......EVEN OUR FAITH.....

Are you replying to loveme1 or the writings? So what? So those writings have no bearing on you whatsoever? Nothing hits a nerve?

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Is the gift not Everlasting life?

do you mean gifts of the Spirit as in tongues etc?

Galatians 5:22-23

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.


many gifts

 

[dcontroversal]

Galatians 1-3 does not condemn those Faithful to the Lord's Testimony.

The Lord tell those that work iniquity to depart... not those that Love and obey Him.

If you Taste the New wine but men come along and tell you you have to drink the Old wine to be saved then you would fall from grace and be yoked and in bondage to the Old Covenant if you believe them... but those who Love and Obey the Messiah Keep His Testament and are under Grace being Faithful in their liberty.

The Everlasting Gospel is sweet tasting my dear but one is to keep drinking it until they put on the immortal.. let us keep hearing His voice and water the incorruptible seed given by Grace through Faith.

No...actually he tells those who trust in their works as their means to depart.....they also think they know Jesus.....erroneously I might add......tragic thing is that the number is PLENTEOUS....and the truth...MOST religions teach a vanilla café blend of works as the means to gain, keep or facilitate their salvation.......tragic truth....I had two grandfathers one a works salvationist of a particular charismatic religion go to his grave denying that faith alone saved him....he went out hard begging for help......and my other one who was wicked his whole life trusted Jesus in faith before his death and he went out peacefully and with a smile on his face....true story......and goes to the point of JESUS......one who trusts works in reality does not fully trust into the finished work of Christ as sufficient......not mouthing and with all due respect.

 

[loveme1]

Hey bro, just a question, not saying your wrong I just want to see what you think,



How do we resolve this statement in a way that it is not teaching works?

We go to the Word of GOD and see if it holds up.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We go to the Word of GOD and see if it holds up.

yes we do,

and again, how can we resolve it as not being a gospel of works.

Yor answer did not not answer my question.

 

[loveme1]

Galatians 5:22-23

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.


many gifts

And what law is broken with that fruit within us?


Do do you believe you have eternal life not matter what you do McGee?

I believe we are to set our heart to obey the Lord under Grace in our liberty.. and if we keep the Faith we receive the right to the Tree of life.

So we remain in belief by hearing and doing what our Lord instructs.

Faith perfected by works according to the Messiah's Testimony.

We believe to receive the Holy Spirit by Grace through Faith and then run the race in our newness.


Keep sharing my You are genuine.

 

[dcontroversal]

The thing that is most sinister in the false gospel of the judaizers and the neo-judaizers of today is not that these seek justification by the law, it is that they teach, believe in and add this to the finished work of Christ and make ongoing effort a part of their gospel. We see this on here from several in this thread who are doing exactly that, using deceptive arguments and contorted scriptures to distort the Gospel of Christ.

Their focus is always on man, not on Christ. A token may be given Christ here and there, but the main issue is them and what they've added to the Gospel, making it false.

That is the issue. That is what is so deceptive in their false gospel.

It really goes all the way back into the garden....GOD had given Adam and EVE ALL that was needed to be whole as in (faith) to BELIEVE what GOD had said......and Satan had to convince them that they NEEDED ONE MORE THING to be WHOLE......the workers for do the exact same thing.....FAITH is not enough....YOU NEED ONE MORE THING............!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

well its semantics
and addressing a specific situation.....

we are supposedly among brothers and sisters here...

if you say you were wicked and lived in sin....
then found God

and nothing changed

but now you feel safe
and good

and justify your sin through Gods grace.....

id say this person is lacking in faith and its evident by their works

oh we would agree 100 %

but then the questions ions must be answer,

are they lost because of sin, or lost because of lack of faith? Did sin have a bearing on their salvation? Or did lack of faith? (I am thinking of john 3 hear, why is a person condemned?)

but
works dont earn salvation

I agree here also.

lets say this person found out they were going to die in a week

due to illness


and they seek God with what little time they have


EVEN without a bible in hand

is it possible for this person to be saved?

id say if its in Gods will
he could easily save them

but it would be through a true faith

Amen i I agree here also,

but again, let's say a person is saved, and has been born of God, can sin have any bearing on their salvation. According to loveme1, yes, that is the discussion?

How can that be resolved in a way as not to teach works (it basically states we maintain salvation by our works, if we stop working and start sinning, salvation can be lost) from what I have been hearing anyway.

 

[MattforJesus]

Rev 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
Rev 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.

Not everyone in that Church was doing wrong,but there was some people that were doing right,for our salvation does not depend on the Church we go to that has hypocrites,for how can you find a Church perfect that does not have any hypocrites,unless there is only 2 people that attend that Church.

A hypocrite is not one that sins,and repents,and keeps moving forward,but a hypocrite is one that holds unto the wrongdoing,and think they are alright,or do not care and say,I will get rid of it in the future,but will not let it go until they decide to get rid of it when they are good and ready.

These people that were wrong in Sardis had a habit of wrongdoing,and not laboring as they should,possibly being lazy.

2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
2Ti 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

God said there will be some hypocrites in the Church,but it is still a great house,for it the Church speaks truth,and there is hypocrites,it is still a great house,and many there that also do right.

The ones who were to dishonor were not prepared unto every good work,like Sardis where Jesus did not find their works perfect before God,which are what the Spirit would have us do,for no works of the flesh matter.

But if our Church speaks truth,the hypocrites do not affect our salvation,for it is still a great house.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

yes we do,

and again, how can we resolve it as not being a gospel of works.

Yor answer did not not answer my question.

Originally Posted by loveme1 View Post

Some say works have no impact on Salvation it is a one off can't be lost... that belief is not supported by Scripture.

____________


ill be honest eg

im not much of a teacher

i personally dont believe OUR works earn salvation in any way


im not sure about osas

and i think evidence of your faith can be seen through your walk compared to the fruits of the Holy spirit

(maybe some good actors who can fool us men, but no one will fool God)

 

[dcontroversal]

If Scripture is not presented then you give way to houses being built on sand...

You try to imply I say works save.... no.. GOD saves us by His Grace through Faith in His Son unto good works.

Some say works have no impact on Salvation it is a one off can't be lost... that belief is not supported by Scripture.

If the Messiah deems someone's works not perfect He can refuse the right to the Tree of life.


We are to be Faithful and labour unto death to receive the crown of life.

And Nothing Paul wrote is against that Truth.

The works are evidence of ones Faith to the Lord who judges us all.

Works perfect ones Faith because they hear and do because they believe.

Works based salvation right here in the bolded.....

 

[TruthTalk]

Good intentins? Trying to convince people who believe that people who are saved are doing the works of a god, are not couch potatoes. Who are doers of the word not just hearers, who obey Gods commands, are wrong?

again, not to smart is it?

What your doing is confusing he thread, in a salvation thread when you post works, peoplare going to assume you are trying g to work to earn salvation, because your talking about after we are saved events, not before we are saved, or you are talking about working to earn,

which is It?

Hi E-grateful, If my Mom lay's out a bunch of homemade cookies on the counter to cool and she tells me don't touch the cookies; but I do and she catches me red handed eating the cookies, then I have sinned, right.

Example:
1) If I am saved I repent and confess my sin and accept any due punishment for not obeying Mom's instructions.

2) If I am not saved I feel remorse for having been caught and dread the consequence of my actions.

For the unsaved child, he is sorry that he got caught taking Mom's cookies too soon, but he does not hold any thought of; I have offended God or Mom for not obeying her instructions, just remorse for getting caught and the thought of the punishment to come, am I right so far.

"As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins." Ephesians2:1

Conversely for the saved child he has thoughts of offending God plus his Mom, and then he repents and tells his Mom he knows it was wrong and he won't do it ever again.

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." 1John1:9

Question: Is the application of repenting and confessing our sin, a work to keep us saved?

4) "You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
5) For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope.
6) For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is; faith expressing itself through love.

Same question as yours above: which is it; is repenting and confessing or sin a work to keep us saved or not?

To save you a little time just a yes or no answer is welcome.

 

[dcontroversal]

Hey bro, just a question, not saying your wrong I just want to see what you think,



How do we resolve this statement in a way that it is not teaching works?

You cannot...and combined with the other two lines I highlighted.....it is obvious.......

 

[gb9]

It really goes all the way back into the garden....GOD had given Adam and EVE ALL that was needed to be whole as in (faith) to BELIEVE what GOD had said......and Satan had to convince them that they NEEDED ONE MORE THING to be WHOLE......the workers for do the exact same thing.....FAITH is not enough....YOU NEED ONE MORE THING............!!

also, satan said something , asking Eve if God said not to eat from the tree, and not touch the tree. God never told them to not touch the tree. another worker/ legalist trick- saying that the Lord said something He did NOT say.

 

[dcontroversal]

Are you replying to loveme1 or the writings? So what? So those writings have no bearing on you whatsoever? Nothing hits a nerve?

Yeah...it hit the slam the brakes nerve on scripture out of context to seemingly push a works based doctrine which has no bearing on the individual salvation of a man's soul based upon faith dia grace without works........when one believes a works based false theology FOR SALVATION or to MAINTAIN SALVATION they will by default see their dogma in verses that have no bearing upon the ETERNAL salvation offered men by faith through grace.

 

[loveme1]

No...actually he tells those who trust in their works as their means to depart.....they also think they know Jesus.....erroneously I might add......tragic thing is that the number is PLENTEOUS....and the truth...MOST religions teach a vanilla café blend of works as the means to gain, keep or facilitate their salvation.......tragic truth....I had two grandfathers one a works salvationist of a particular charismatic religion go to his grave denying that faith alone saved him....he went out hard begging for help......and my other one who was wicked his whole life trusted Jesus in faith before his death and he went out peacefully and with a smile on his face....true story......and goes to the point of JESUS......one who trusts works in reality does not fully trust into the finished work of Christ as sufficient......not mouthing and with all due respect.

I think you really believe that and the Lord Himself telling you otherwise in His Testimony seems to fall on death ears.

You say you Trust fully Christ is sufficient the rest of us will run the race set before us and Let the Lord judge who is Faithful.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

And what law is broken with that fruit within us?


Do do you believe you have eternal life not matter what you do McGee?

I believe we are to set our heart to obey the Lord under Grace in our liberty.. and if we keep the Faith we receive the right to the Tree of life.

So we remain in belief by hearing and doing what our Lord instructs.

Faith perfected by works according to the Messiah's Testimony.

We believe to receive the Holy Spirit by Grace through Faith and then run the race in our newness.


Keep sharing my You are genuine.

hmmmmm
i dont know what i have obtained already

but God has delivered me from many sins

and made me capable of being loving

when i see
Philippians 1:6

6*Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

it encourages me...

ive seen evidence of change

more than JUST actions but actual desires changing

which leads to a change of actions

and even thoughts


but i agree its important to keep an eye on our own actions and intents

and listen when brothers and sisters may mention faults in us


im not 100% sure where i stand in osas (if someone can turn away from genuine faith)


but i am 100% where i stand on works of ourselfs meaning nothing

but the works of the Holy spirit being an evidence of genuine faith