Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Yes!
Abraham believed God and it was counted as righteousness to Him. God then swears by HIMSELF that Abraham's descendants, from his OWN body, will inherit the land forever, and in the next chapter after 10 yrs go by and NO baby, Abraham does THIS:
16 Now Sarai, Abram’s wife, had borne him no children. And she had an Egyptian maidservant whose name was Hagar. [SUP]2 [/SUP]So Sarai said to Abram, “See now, the Lord has restrained me from bearing children. Please, go in to my maid; perhaps I shall obtain children by her.” And Abram heeded the voice of Sarai. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Then Sarai, Abram’s wife, took Hagar her maid, the Egyptian, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan. [SUP]4 [/SUP]So he went in to Hagar, and she conceived. And when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress became despised in her eyes.
Then God was angry Abraham didn't trust Him and took away Abraham and his descendants promises FOREVER!!!
Ummm. NO HE DIDN'T!! Why? Because the promise to Abraham,(and us) IS UNCONDITIONAL!!
Abraham believed God and it was counted as righteousness to Him. God then swears by HIMSELF that Abraham's descendants, from his OWN body, will inherit the land forever, and in the next chapter after 10 yrs go by and NO baby, Abraham does THIS:
16 Now Sarai, Abram’s wife, had borne him no children. And she had an Egyptian maidservant whose name was Hagar. [SUP]2 [/SUP]So Sarai said to Abram, “See now, the Lord has restrained me from bearing children. Please, go in to my maid; perhaps I shall obtain children by her.” And Abram heeded the voice of Sarai. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Then Sarai, Abram’s wife, took Hagar her maid, the Egyptian, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan. [SUP]4 [/SUP]So he went in to Hagar, and she conceived. And when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress became despised in her eyes.
Then God was angry Abraham didn't trust Him and took away Abraham and his descendants promises FOREVER!!!
Ummm. NO HE DIDN'T!! Why? Because the promise to Abraham,(and us) IS UNCONDITIONAL!!
P
Okay, then explain how my believing, when I first started it, was not a work of the damnable works gospel (which we agree it surely was not), but that EXACT SAME BELIEVING continuing to this very day IS a damnable work of the works gospel?
Correct, justification is a completed, singular event that happened the moment you first believed, and is held in place by your continued believing. Stop believing and the completed sacrifice of Christ on your behalf that justified you completely and totally and forever in that moment of time stops being applied to you. You lose it. Belief is how you gain access to, and continue to have access to the sacrifice that makes you forever justified before God the Father and no longer in need of an additional sacrifice for additional sin.
So, in other words...KEEP BELIEVING IN WHAT GOD HAS DONE FOR YOU.
How exactly is that different from what I've been saying, lol?
Which is why the Greek word for 'obedience' and 'believe' are the same word in these verses: https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G543&t=KJV
...and why works are required in salvation. Not to earn salvation, but because that's what abiding faith does--it works.
Correct, justification is a completed, singular event that happened the moment you first believed, and is held in place by your continued believing. Stop believing and the completed sacrifice of Christ on your behalf that justified you completely and totally and forever in that moment of time stops being applied to you. You lose it. Belief is how you gain access to, and continue to have access to the sacrifice that makes you forever justified before God the Father and no longer in need of an additional sacrifice for additional sin.
So, in other words...KEEP BELIEVING IN WHAT GOD HAS DONE FOR YOU.
How exactly is that different from what I've been saying, lol?
Which is why the Greek word for 'obedience' and 'believe' are the same word in these verses: https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G543&t=KJV
...and why works are required in salvation. Not to earn salvation, but because that's what abiding faith does--it works.
Last edited:
U
This is where you falter.
We have been around this so many times, but really can you make yourself unborn?
Why do think Jesus used this analogy, we are talking about God, an intellect we can never fathom.
No matter how hard you try you can never disprove scripture, because scripture is truth.
We have been around this so many times, but really can you make yourself unborn?
Why do think Jesus used this analogy, we are talking about God, an intellect we can never fathom.
No matter how hard you try you can never disprove scripture, because scripture is truth.
Last edited by a moderator:
P
Okay, good, then you agree that works are required in salvation for the very reason you state above and not to earn salvation.
Who's left now that doesn't agree with this? We're moving closer to being able to go home now and shut the lights off on this thread. (At least it's gotten a little funner around here lately, lol).
Who's left now that doesn't agree with this? We're moving closer to being able to go home now and shut the lights off on this thread. (At least it's gotten a little funner around here lately, lol).
P
Yes, we have been around this before: Hebrews 10 explains how the sanctified person can lose the sacrifice of Christ and come under the wrath of God again. And I proved right from the plain words in Hebrews 10 that 'sanctified' is referring to believers. The author himself defined 'sanctified' for us, lol.
But I know it's hard to see that's what he's saying--that believers can lose the sacrifice of Christ and be condemned to wrath again--because the church has been trained to gloss right over and dismiss these kinds of passages. It's called an 'indoctrination'. It's a very powerful one presently gripping the church.
But I know it's hard to see that's what he's saying--that believers can lose the sacrifice of Christ and be condemned to wrath again--because the church has been trained to gloss right over and dismiss these kinds of passages. It's called an 'indoctrination'. It's a very powerful one presently gripping the church.
Yes, we cannot agree. But we can walk in love, in the Spirit. 
strange thing love, if a child dose ,not know the way forward , then they are going to make some errs ,
free will ,came with live and learn from your mistakes.without understanding to, the full meaning of good and what is bad, and without knowing scripture.etc
with god knowing, all things, you would think, you could prove from scripture, to why gods love, gave us the words no condemnation, so we can continue in gods love, and live and learn as we go. and grow in understanding to different subjects, other that being in a continuous condemning system .
21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.Romans 5: Peace with God Through Faith
U
Well I give you credit for persistence, but you do need to change your name.
NOPE NOPE NOPE. NOT required in salvation
If we have been discipled properly in truth than there will be the divine influence of grace in our hearts and we will work as we know that there are rewards from God. Even these works are only accomplished in His love otherwise they are dead works.
Salvation was dealt with at the cross...Rewards will be dealt with in Heaven
Please stop trying to confusing things
NOPE NOPE NOPE. NOT required in salvation
If we have been discipled properly in truth than there will be the divine influence of grace in our hearts and we will work as we know that there are rewards from God. Even these works are only accomplished in His love otherwise they are dead works.
Salvation was dealt with at the cross...Rewards will be dealt with in Heaven
Please stop trying to confusing things
It is those who have the love of God poured out into their hearts that are the workers....because we know we are saved
when you answer, other post that have been directed to you, you may not understand, twisting words from someone else post dose not prove anything. do you have more that one account on cc. given worker would and could be asked , who are you working for. yet this scripture quoted at the bottom, would indicate not the readers of scripture. but the believers ,in what jesus has already done.
can you post ,what works are required in salvation.
Galatians 5: Christ Has Set Us Free
1 For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.
2 Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you.3 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law.4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.
define worker, if your cut off.
I do agree with what you are saying, and you know it's coming
BUT
all of here can fall foul of the above.
Mainly through frustration and also feeling personaly attacked.
I know I have fallen foul of this.
That does not mean I am evil if I react in a way I shouldn't have done. It means I have allowed my flesh to control my spirit and not the reverse.
I do say though that there is nothing wrong in discussing differences of opinion.
I do agree with you though being nice one minute to someone then bashing them will not cover up the bashing.
To me when this is done then an apology is needed. I've had to do that on here.
BUT
all of here can fall foul of the above.
Mainly through frustration and also feeling personaly attacked.
I know I have fallen foul of this.
That does not mean I am evil if I react in a way I shouldn't have done. It means I have allowed my flesh to control my spirit and not the reverse.
I do say though that there is nothing wrong in discussing differences of opinion.
I do agree with you though being nice one minute to someone then bashing them will not cover up the bashing.
To me when this is done then an apology is needed. I've had to do that on here.
U
I certainly did not mean "worker" as in under the law. I meant "workers" as in giving what God has freely given to us, His Love, and sometimes this can be done in very practical ways like spoken of in James 2 15-16
Originally Posted by UnderGrace
It is those who have the love of God poured out into their hearts that are the workers....because we know we are saved
when you answer, other post that have been directed to you, you may not understand, twisting words from someone else post dose not prove anything. do you have more that one account on cc. given worker would and could be asked , who are you working for. yet this scripture quoted at the bottom, would indicate not the readers of scripture. but the believers ,in what jesus has already done.
can you post ,what works are required in salvation.
Galatians 5: Christ Has Set Us Free
1 For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.
2 Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you.3 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law.4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.
define worker, if your cut off.
It is those who have the love of God poured out into their hearts that are the workers....because we know we are saved
when you answer, other post that have been directed to you, you may not understand, twisting words from someone else post dose not prove anything. do you have more that one account on cc. given worker would and could be asked , who are you working for. yet this scripture quoted at the bottom, would indicate not the readers of scripture. but the believers ,in what jesus has already done.
can you post ,what works are required in salvation.
Galatians 5: Christ Has Set Us Free
1 For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.
2 Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you.3 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law.4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.
define worker, if your cut off.