Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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U
Wrong....Study James properly these snippets destroy Truth
James is writing to the Jews, who are learning how to come out from under the Law and what role works have to play in their final judgment.
The question of faith has already been settled, we are saved by faith, James knew this he was a born again believer.
James is teaching on the profitable life of the Christian and being judged by the law of liberty when we stand before God
Those under the law of liberty are already justified by faith in Christ.
Faith alone does not profit because we are already justified by faith, for the believers judgement before God it is works that will be Rewarded, that is why he is stressing works
If you do a study on dead as it applies to dead faith you will learn this word means ineffectual
James is writing to the Jews, who are learning how to come out from under the Law and what role works have to play in their final judgment.
The question of faith has already been settled, we are saved by faith, James knew this he was a born again believer.
James is teaching on the profitable life of the Christian and being judged by the law of liberty when we stand before God
Those under the law of liberty are already justified by faith in Christ.
Faith alone does not profit because we are already justified by faith, for the believers judgement before God it is works that will be Rewarded, that is why he is stressing works
If you do a study on dead as it applies to dead faith you will learn this word means ineffectual
For me, it was always just try harder, try again, you know what He wants you to be like and can obviously see your lack of love, lack of patience, sharp tongue setting fires wherever it goes, etc. I loved Him, I was grateful, astonished that He wanted to know me, but I was missing that I COULDN'T be good by just trying harder. And this was all AFTER I'd met Him and received His Spirit.
The verses just prior say:
A Tree Is Known by Its Fruit
43 “For a good tree does not bear bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. 44 For every tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they gather grapes from a bramble bush.45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart[g] brings forth evil. For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.
So either we ARE good trees, and produce good fruit, or we aren't.
Either we ARE born again and ARE His children, or we aren't.
If we are, we are a NEW creation, and by the nature of that NEW creation He will cause us to bring forth good fruit because we are a part of Him, and get ALL that we need naturally by Him to produce that fruit.
A bad tree, try as HARD as it can, CAN'T produce good fruit.
A child of the father of lies, try as hard as he can, CAN'T be a child of God. By nature he will produce bad fruit.
A Tree Is Known by Its Fruit
43 “For a good tree does not bear bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. 44 For every tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they gather grapes from a bramble bush.45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart[g] brings forth evil. For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.
So either we ARE good trees, and produce good fruit, or we aren't.
Either we ARE born again and ARE His children, or we aren't.
If we are, we are a NEW creation, and by the nature of that NEW creation He will cause us to bring forth good fruit because we are a part of Him, and get ALL that we need naturally by Him to produce that fruit.
A bad tree, try as HARD as it can, CAN'T produce good fruit.
A child of the father of lies, try as hard as he can, CAN'T be a child of God. By nature he will produce bad fruit.
U
Which two camps do you speak of?
Maye I know some of them, not personally of course.
Maye I know some of them, not personally of course.
Okay, I see what you are defending now. It's okay. So many godly men, dead now, whose books I have read and who helped me immensely, fall in one camp or the other. I love them all and they have BOTH helped me to the building up of my faith as I run. 
I realize that is rare, at least in here, but I have seen men in both sides of this who walk by the Spirit very fruitfully.
I realize that is rare, at least in here, but I have seen men in both sides of this who walk by the Spirit very fruitfully.
E
You obey the gospel by having Faith in Christ,
At least that is what I hear the word say it, When it says all who do not obey, to me it means those who have rejected the gospel. And not obeyed.
which is different than obeying a command.
so I guess in that context, I can see obey and faith meaning the same, But not in some legalistic way. (stop sin, Do these works or else etc etc)
If we get caught up in it and stumble, we should get back up again and continue our race of trust. We should apologize, regardless of whether or not they are reviling us. Their reviling of us should be expected but we should see that WE continue walking in the Spirit and pray for the help we need to do so.
New American Standard Bible
Romans 1:17For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."
BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE SHALL LIVE BY FAITH; AND IF HE SHRINKS BACK, MY SOUL HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM.
Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, "THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."
"Behold, as for the proud one, His soul is not right within him; But the righteous will live by his faith.
You have just said all these scriptures are works, because they imply continuous, consistent faith.
That's what happens when you judge without thinking.
Romans 1:17For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."
Hebrews 10:38
New American Standard Bible BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE SHALL LIVE BY FAITH; AND IF HE SHRINKS BACK, MY SOUL HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM.
Galatians 3:11
New American Standard Bible Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, "THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."
Habakkuk 2:4
New American Standard Bible "Behold, as for the proud one, His soul is not right within him; But the righteous will live by his faith.
You have just said all these scriptures are works, because they imply continuous, consistent faith.
That's what happens when you judge without thinking.
I don't agree that to abide/continue in faith means faith comes from myself...He gives everyone a measure of faith, a talent. If we weren't expected to use and grow it, He would be wrong to take it back from the man who buried it and did not grow it. This sounds to me like you do away with abiding/continuing in faith. It sounds to me like in order to protect the doctrine of OSAS, you must do away with too much of what He said. There are always verses "in tension to" and you have to include them too. You can't do away with continuing in trust/abiding by calling it a "work", can you? GM by the way!