The Rapture
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It's actually end of the age 16...
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[TD]Heb 9:26[/TD]
[TD]Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.[/TD]
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[TD]Heb 9:26[/TD]
[TD]Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.[/TD]
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What is your take on this parable? Is this not an accurate dexcription of the kingdom of heaven on earth right now?
Matthew 13:24-30 KJV
Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
[25] But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
[26] But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
[27] So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
[28] He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
[29] But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
[30] Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Matthew 13:24-30 KJV
Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
[25] But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
[26] But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
[27] So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
[28] He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
[29] But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
[30] Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
I don't agree with the KJV translators trying to tell us "more" 16.
Now I don't know what the KJV translators had in mind when translating aion as world, there is a perfectly good word for world in Greek - kosmos.
The KJV translators were a mix of Amillennial and Postmillennial therefore they may have had a bias.
Adam Clarke's commentary:
"For then must he often have suffered - In the counsel of God, Christ was considered the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, Revelation 13:8, so that all believers before his advent were equally interested in his sacrificial death with those who have lived since his coming. Humanly speaking, the virtue of the annual atonement could not last long, and must be repeated; Christ's sacrifice is ever the same; his life's blood is still considered as in the act of being continually poured out. See Revelation 5:6.
The end of the world - The conclusion of the Jewish dispensation, the Christian dispensation being that which shall continue till the end of time."
Even though ol' Clark correctly identifies the "end of the world" as the end of the Jewish dispensation/age - he then errs in stating the Christian age has an end. - But then Clarke was a Methodist.
Now I don't know what the KJV translators had in mind when translating aion as world, there is a perfectly good word for world in Greek - kosmos.
The KJV translators were a mix of Amillennial and Postmillennial therefore they may have had a bias.
Adam Clarke's commentary:
"For then must he often have suffered - In the counsel of God, Christ was considered the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, Revelation 13:8, so that all believers before his advent were equally interested in his sacrificial death with those who have lived since his coming. Humanly speaking, the virtue of the annual atonement could not last long, and must be repeated; Christ's sacrifice is ever the same; his life's blood is still considered as in the act of being continually poured out. See Revelation 5:6.
The end of the world - The conclusion of the Jewish dispensation, the Christian dispensation being that which shall continue till the end of time."
Even though ol' Clark correctly identifies the "end of the world" as the end of the Jewish dispensation/age - he then errs in stating the Christian age has an end. - But then Clarke was a Methodist.
I don't know Greek, could you tell me why aion was translated as worlds here? ESV has universe. NASB has worlds with footnote - ages. Isn't the verse talking about kosmos? Not that it matters, I'm just curious as to why this wouldn't be translated as ages even though it doesn't seem to fit the context of the verse.
Hebrews 11:3 KJV
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Hebrews 1:2 seems to do the same.
[h=1]Hebrews 1:2New American Standard Bible (NASB)[/h][FONT="]2 [a]in these last days has spoken to us [b]in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the [c]world.[/FONT]
[FONT="][h=4]Footnotes:[/h]
Hebrews 11:3 KJV
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
Hebrews 1:2 seems to do the same.
[h=1]Hebrews 1:2New American Standard Bible (NASB)[/h][FONT="]2 [a]in these last days has spoken to us [b]in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the [c]world.[/FONT]
[FONT="][h=4]Footnotes:[/h]
- Hebrews 1:2 Or at the end of these days
- Hebrews 1:2 Lit in Son; or in the person of a Son
- Hebrews 1:2 Lit ages
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I saw Locutus' response and he has a bit of a different prospective than me, not saying he's wrong and I'm right, just giving you my take.
First off, 2 Peter 3 is employing apocalyptic literary style (Google it) just as John does in Rev and Jesus does in the Olivet and many of the OT prophets did. This style of writing takes real events to their extreme. This style was popular for 2000 years and even employed as late as Nostradamus. It's figurative language but meant to disguise the meaning from those other than the intended audience (usually out of fear of reprisal) AND blown out of proportion (apocalyptic) for added affect.
For example, let's say we served in the army together, same company and our unit was a tight knitted group. Maybe we developed ways of saying things that we all understood but our sergeant wouldn't understand to avoid getting into trouble. Then to go further, not only do we disguise our true meanings, we then exaggerate it in a figurative way to make it sound absurd like a joke. It would be like me challenging you to a game of basketball and telling you, "I'm going to end your world." Obviously I'm not going to destroy the planet, right?
It's the same thing here. Peter had good cause to be concerned about Nero and the Romans. He was writing about the future complete and utter destruction of Israel and Jerusalem that he knew was coming in 15 years or so and he knew the Romans would be the ones to do it.
It all goes back to Genesis. In the beginning God did what? He created the "heavens and the earth." Now Peter knows the coming destruction was the next "Day of the Lord" and that it was ordered by God as vengeance. So rather than saying that Israel was going to be utterly destroyed, (as a subject of Rome it would be pretty obvious who would do it), Peter says, "the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up." I take the elements simply to mean the gold and silver that was used all over the temple would get so hot they would melt and indeed, that's why the Romans removed every stone to get the gold that collected under the foundations.
There is a lot of truth and double meaning in what Peter says. As I pointed out before, Josephus records that when the temple (heaven) was first lit on fire, both the solders and the Jews let out a huge clamor (noise) as they saw the flames rising. "their whole world" was on fire (like that?) Again, "earth" is Israel/Jerusalem. In those days, big and beautiful structures, like the temple and surrounding structures were called, "works." So, all these works were burned up just as Jesus said they would and Peter was one of the four at the Olivet Discourse.
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I encourage everyone (except VCO) to re-read 2 Peter 3 with the notion that the heavens and earth referred to the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem in 70 AD and that God would see to it. Read it in that light and see if it makes perfect sense. The OT prophets spoke of the end of their nation and that the Law would come to an end. Peter knew they were in those "last days" as a nation and the age was coming to an end.
Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless...
It was a very personal, heartfelt and urgent message.
Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless...
It was a very personal, heartfelt and urgent message.
See post #5730.
Here's Peter again from Acts 3:
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But those things which God foretold by the mouth of all His prophets, that the Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence (PAROUSIA) of the Lord, [SUP]20 [/SUP]and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, [SUP]21 [/SUP]whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.
The presence of the Lord returned to oversee the final destruction and punishment of the wicked of Israel. This is why they hid in caves "from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!
Look what God did 600 years earlier. The same thing happened in 70 AD in the same exact way, by a different enemy.
Jer 21:10 For I have set My face against this city for adversity and not for good,” says the Lord. “It shall be given into the hand of the king of Babylon, and he shall burn it with fire.”’
I'm almost 100% sure the elements in 2 Peter 3 are these week and beggarly element... keeping the law.
Galatians 4:9-10 KJV
But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
[10] Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
Galatians 4:9-10 KJV
But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
[10] Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
Peter was quoting Isaiah 28:12... the presence of the Lord is line upon line, precept upon precept... the word of God.
Isaiah 28:9-12 KJV
Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
[10] For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
[11] For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
[12] To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
Isaiah 28:9-12 KJV
Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
[10] For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
[11] For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
[12] To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
I don't know why the KJV has translated the Greek (aiwnav) as "worlds" how many worlds are we concerned with? And YES it does matter.
Strongs
G165 aion ahee-ohn'
from the same as G104;
properly, an age; by extension, perpetuity (also past); by implication, the world; specially (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future). Compare G5550.
The above is from Strong's which is a concordance rather than a lexicon.
Liddell and Scott. An Intermediate Greek-English Lexicon.Oxford. Clarendon Press. 1889:
αἰών poet. :apocop. acc. αἰῶ properly αἰϝών, aevum,v. αἰεί）
a period of existence:
1. one's life-time, life, Hom. andattic Poets.
2. a nage, generation, Aesch.; ὁ μέλλων αἰών posterity, Dem.
3. a long space of time, an age, ἀπ᾽ αἰῶνος of old, for ages, Hes., NTest.; τὸν δι᾽ αἰῶνος χρόνον forever, Aesch.; ἅπαντατὸν αἰ. Lycurg.
4. a definite space of time, an era, epoch, age, period, ὁ αἰὼν οὗτος this present world, opp. to ὁ μέλλων, NTest.:—hence its usage in pl., εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας forever, id=NTest.
You can see in #4 that I've made red “this present world – I believe this is a reference to usage in ye old bibles such as the KJV.
This is from Young's Literal:
Heb1:2 in these last days did speak to us in a Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He did make the ages;
