The Rapture

VCO · Jul 18, 2017

Let's put that statement to the TEST of the original Greek language of the Scriptures.

Do you know the WORD JESUS used and the Apostles used was NOT "Church"?

"Church" was the word the original Translators of the English Bible chose to USE, not because it was the LITERAL Translation, but because it was what they were calling themselves BEFORE there was an ENGLISH TRANSLATION.

Matthew 16:18 (ASV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] And I also say unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock
I will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

Church is NOT the Literal translation of the word JESUS USED, HE USED THE WORD ASSEMBLY,
THE SAME THING HE CALLED TRUE BELIEVERS IN THE OLD TESTAMENT.

Matthew 16:18 (Young's LITERAL Translation)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] `And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock
I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;

Greek NASB Number: 1577

Greek Word: [FONT=&quot]ἐκκλησία[/FONT]

Transliterated Word: ekklêsia
Root: from 1537 and 2564;

Definition: an assembly, a (religious) congregation:--

New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible.

I absolutely believe the TWO FOLDS that will become ONE FLOCK at the Rapture
that Jesus talked about are O.T. Saints and N.T. Saints.

Malachi 3:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] "For I, the LORD, do not change;
therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed.

Bogadile · Jul 18, 2017

Now that I have interrogated post-tribbers for a while, let me ask a question or two from pre-tribbers for a change:

1. Is there any verse that clearly paints the Church and Israel as separate entities?

2. Does it not concern you at all that the New Covenant is only made with the house of Israel and Judah? (If Israel and Church are separate, how does this work out)

I ask in good intentions, so no need to get snappy. : )

Burninglight · Jul 18, 2017

J7 said:

Not just the Jews, it is for all who don't comply with receiving the mark of the beast whether they are saved or not.
Pre-trib believers have a way of exempting themselves to any persecution, suffering or tribulation as if they are better than the rest of the believers. How wrong they are. Many of them not only self-righteously fly in the face of other believers; they go against the Scriptures to believe a pampered Christianity that the souls under the alter of the 5 seal have never known.

Burninglight · Jul 18, 2017

Bogadile said:

They do see them as separate and they see raptured Christians as different than the Christians left behind, but all of this belief is man made deception and not Scriptural. There is only one church period. You are either among the saved or you're not!

Bogadile · Jul 18, 2017

Burninglight said:

Interesting, Offtopic: do you think God is done with Israel? I am referring to the country that exists today.
If that is the case, how do you reconcile the millennial kingdom and the earthly reign from Jerusalem with that.

I agree that it would be a lot simpler to have only one Church, you either got Christ or you do not, Jew or Gentile

Burninglight · Jul 18, 2017

Bogadile said:

Paul said, that he is not a Jew who is one outwardly but one inwardly. All I can do is speculate as millions of Christians have done and still do on what God is going to do during the earthly reign and millennial kingdom., but I'd rather tell you "I don't know how or if their there'll be a reconciliation."

I stick to what I can see and that is explicitly clear from Scripture namely there will be no pre trib rapture. A true Jew is not one outwardly; the true Jew is the one who has the indwelling Christ in them and they are the true Israel as well whether they were grafted in or not. Are we not all from Adam?

Burninglight · Jul 18, 2017

Of course God is not done with Israel: He is not done with any of us. God deals with nations one way and individuals in another. He is not done either way.

Bogadile · Jul 18, 2017

LOL. BurningLight you must really hate the pre-trib doctrine

You land a jab everytime you can.

Dan_473 · Jul 18, 2017

RickyZ said:

I was just trying to figure out if you meant miracle food. Sure, sounds great!

for me,
to plan to use violence to stop someone from stealing my jacket or dinner would conflict with Jesus' teaching here

If anyone sues you to take away your jacket, let him have your shoes also.

Whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two.

and
where your treasure is,

there your heart will be also.

KJV1611 · Jul 18, 2017

Bogadile said:

The time of Jacob's trouble was the first coming of Christ, everybody from Adam to Christ were raised, the good and the bad, at the resurrection of Christ.

1 Peter 3 - 19... he went and PREACHED to the spirits in prison. That is the judgement, some evidently accept His preaching and were resurrected to everlasting life and the one's who didn't accept His preaching were resurrected to eternal contempt.

1 Peter 3:18-19 KJV
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

The bible paints pictures for us, the old tesament picture of the resurrection at Jesus time can be seen in the story of Joseph. Josesph was cast in a PIT by his brothers, he came out the pit and went to prison, there he ministered to the baker and the butler. One was RETORED and the other lost his head.... this is the story of Jesus.

[19] By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

tanakh · Jul 18, 2017

Burninglight said:

The whole of Gods plan is to bring humanity back into the relationship Adam had with him before the fall. On this site we seem to lose sight of this by being bogged down and side tracked by these issues. You have identified the real issue as far as God is concerned do we have the indwelling Christ within us or not?

Jackson123 · Jul 18, 2017

VCO said:

Let's put that statement to the TEST of the original Greek language of the Scriptures.

Do you know the WORD JESUS used and the Apostles used was NOT "Church"?

"Church" was the word the original Translators of the English Bible chose to USE, not because it was the LITERAL Translation, but because it was what they were calling themselves BEFORE there was an ENGLISH TRANSLATION.

Matthew 16:18 (ASV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] And I also say unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this rock
I will build my church; and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

Church is NOT the Literal translation of the word JESUS USED, HE USED THE WORD ASSEMBLY,
THE SAME THING HE CALLED TRUE BELIEVERS IN THE OLD TESTAMENT.

Matthew 16:18 (Young's LITERAL Translation)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] `And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock
I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;

Greek NASB Number: 1577

Greek Word: ἐκκλησία

Transliterated Word: ekklêsia
Root: from 1537 and 2564;

Definition: an assembly, a (religious) congregation:--

New American Standard Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible.

I absolutely believe the TWO FOLDS that will become ONE FLOCK at the Rapture
that Jesus talked about are O.T. Saints and N.T. Saints.

Malachi 3:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6[/SUP] "For I, the LORD, do not change;
therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed.

basicaly a multitude of saint is assembly and it is a church.

brother awaatukee try to say no more church during tribulation, but admit there is a multitude of saint.

It mean, no more church bat there is a church

J7 · Jul 18, 2017

nice. love it

KJV1611 said:

The time of Jacob's trouble was the first coming of Christ, everybody from Adam to Christ were raised, the good and the bad, at the resurrection of Christ.

1 Peter 3 - 19... he went and PREACHED to the spirits in prison. That is the judgement, some evidently accept His preaching and were resurrected to everlasting life and the one's who didn't accept His preaching were resurrected to eternal contempt.

1 Peter 3:18-19 KJV
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

The bible paints pictures for us, the old tesament picture of the resurrection at Jesus time can be seen in the story of Joseph. Josesph was cast in a PIT by his brothers, he came out the pit and went to prison, there he ministered to the baker and the butler. One was RETORED and the other lost his head.... this is the story of Jesus.

[19] By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

J7 · Jul 18, 2017

Although I think all those in prison would have accepted Jesus's redemptive plan

Bogadile · Jul 18, 2017

I must say this thread is a double-edged sword.

I like the variety of views and thoughts.

But I also miss the simplicity I had before clicking on this

(Christ comes back, resurrects everyone, judges them, new earth and new heaven, cant get more simpler than that)

Ahwatukee · Jul 18, 2017

Bogadile said:

Hello my friend! Below is a summarization of the end-time events:

* Jesus said, "I will build my church and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it (Matt.16:18)

* The church is still currently in the process of being built

* Once the church is completed, the Lord will gather the church taking them back to the Father's house
(John 14:1-3, 1 Thes. 4:13-18, 1 Cor.15:50-53)

* The ruler, antichrist, will make his contract with Israel for seven years, in fulfillment of the seventy sevens (Dan.9:24-27)

* The seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will be in operation during that last seven years
(Revelation chapters 6 thru 18)

* In the middle of the seven, the ruler will stop the sacrifices and offerings and set up the abomination
(Dan.9:27, 2 Thes.2:4, Rev.13:14-15)

* The woman/Israel flees out into the desert where she is cared for 1260, which is that last 3 1/2 years
(Matt.24:15-22, Rev.12:6,14)

* After the 7th bowl has been poured out, the Lord will return to the earth to end the age
(Matt.24:29-31, Rev.19:11-21)

* The beast and the false prophet will be thrown alive into the lake of fire
(2 Thes.2:8, Rev.19:20)

* Satan will be bound in the Abyss during the thousand year reign of Christ (Rev.20:1-3)

* At the end of the thousand years Satan will be released for one last rebellion (Rev.20:7-9)

* Satan is thrown into the lake of fire where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown (Rev.20:10)

* The great white throne judgment of all of the unrighteous dead will take place (Rev.20:11-15)

* New heaven, new earth, new Jerusalem (Revelation chapters 21 & 22)

* Eternity .............................................................................>

Burninglight · Jul 18, 2017

Bogadile said:

LOL, yes, I do so much. As long as I don't hate the Christians that believe in it, I am okay with that. I really hate every false way.

VCO · Jul 18, 2017

Bogadile said:

Romans 2:9-11 (HCSB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] affliction and distress for every human being who does evil, first to the Jew, and also to the Greek;
[SUP]10 [/SUP] but glory, honor, and peace for everyone who does what is good, first to the Jew, and also to the Greek.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] There is no favoritism with God.

John 10:15-17 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] as the Father knows Me, and I know the Father. I lay down My life for the sheep.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But I have other sheep that are not of this fold {The Birthday of the Church is Pentecost after His ascension. The fold He is talking to is NOT the Church.}; I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. {After the last personal is saved that is part of the Church.}Then{at the Rapture} there will be one flock, one shepherd.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] This is why the Father loves Me, because I am laying down My life so I may take it up again.

Romans 9:27 (HCSB)
[SUP]27 [/SUP] But Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: Though the number of Israel’s sons is like the sand of the sea, only the remnant will be saved; {AND WE ARE DOING NO BETTER.}

Matthew 7:21-23 (ESV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
[SUP]23 [/SUP] And then will I declare to them,‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Romans 11:25-28 (ESV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;
[SUP]27 [/SUP] “and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins.”
[SUP]28 [/SUP] As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers.

THERE IS YOUR ANSWER. No, we gentile Believers ARE NOT SPIRITUAL ISRAELITES, a replacement for ISRAEL.

GOD WILL SHOW MERCY upon whom HE CHOOSES to show mercy.

NO, that does not concern or bother me ONE BIT. I figure as GOD, HE has the right to Do exactly what HE wants, and exactly what HE sees as PERFECTLY JUST. I actually heard a Baptist Missionary say at the tail end of His sermon one time when I was searching for a good BIBLE TEACHING CHURCH: "The reason I serve the LORD is I want the biggest fanciest Mansion on the Street of Gold. I do not want a little cabin out back on the Crystal River." HE MISSED THE ENTIRE POINT OF WHY WE SERVE HIM, and that is BECAUSE WE LOVE HIM. I would have walked out if it had not been his closing statment of his boring sermon. Obviously, I never went back to that Church. I have Prayed NUMEROUS TIMES since that sermon, "LORD give me that little cabin out back on the Crystal River. I will be satified, I just want to be there, because I LOVE YOU."

So when we get to Heaven, if you want to continue the discussions, my place will probably look something like this:

KJV1611 · Jul 18, 2017

Ahwatukee said:

The church is not new, it's been around since Adam and Eve. Everybody that believed God and it was counted to them as righteousness are part of the church.

God is done with flesh Israel, and flesh Israel has never been God's chosen people ever.

There is no 7 year peace treaty with Israel.... Daniel 9 is about the coming of Christ to save the REMNANT of Jews.

The 7 seals are things Jesus did between the triumphal entry and his resurrection.

The woman in Revelation 12 is heavenly Jerusalem not earthly Jerusalem.

The old testament judgement has already taken place. But it seems as though there may be ascond judgement at the end.

RickyZ · Jul 18, 2017

We will see the judgments contained in the seals and trumpets.

Then Jesus gathers us all to be with Him.

Our works are judged, and we receive reward or loss

We attend the marriage supper in heaven, while earth goes thru the wrath in the bowls

We then return to earth with Christ, to rule for 1000 years.

satan then is given one last attempt to defeat God, culminating in the decreation of this earth and heavens and the creation of the lake of fire. satan and all those who rejected God are given to the lake of fire.

God creates a new heaven and earth, centered on the city of New Jerusalem where He dwells with His Bride/closest bondservants.

Nations of saved people live outside of New Jerusalem, who come and go into and do commerce with New Jerusalem.

Forever more!

The Rapture

Senior Member

Banned

Burninglight

Guest

Burninglight

Guest

Banned

Burninglight

Guest

Burninglight

Guest

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Banned

Senior Member

Burninglight

Guest

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member