The Rapture

KJV1611 · Jul 18, 2017

Some of us KNOW that the time of Jacob's trouble was the first coming of Christ. Daniel 12:1 IS Jacob's trouble.

Daniel 12:1-2 KJV
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

[2] And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Bogadile · Jul 18, 2017

KJV1611 said:

My friend I can see the OT saints resurrection along with Jesus but what about the "some to shame and everlasting contempt" part? When did that happen? Is there any record of it.

KJV1611 · Jul 18, 2017

Bogadile said:

Sorry im out for a bit.

Magenta · Jul 18, 2017

J7 said:

I have yet to see you admit error even when more than one person makes it plain to you, and your pretense of simply teaching Scripture does not fly, either. What you can do is stop lying about these these matters , and put an end to misrepresenting yourself and others. That would make an excellent start

J7 · Jul 18, 2017

Bogadile said:

Ok, in the spirit of the thread, let's try some sophistry.

As they are not mentioned, that means they rose to ignominy.

Honest answer?
Stumped

J7 · Jul 18, 2017

Magenta said:

I haven't got enough fuel to reach your planet love, have fun there.

PlainWord · Jul 18, 2017

J7 said:

Let's simply define the terms first then we can discuss the "when" and "how" Christ changed things:

Physical Life - Our human bodies temporarily alive, breathing, hearts beating, etc.
Physical Death - Our human bodies die, decay and return to dust
Spiritual Life - Eternal presence with the Lord
Spiritual Death - Separation from the Lord, for some temporarily, others permanently

Law brought sin and sin brought spiritual death because none could keep the Law so there was no way for redemption before Christ. Rom 7:7-12, 1 Cor 15:55-56. The Law is not sin, the Law reveals sin. The importance of the Law in our discussion cannot be overstated.

From Adam until Christ, nobody could keep the Law and when they died physically they suffered temporary spiritual separation from the Lord. This is often times called "sleep, asleep, or sleeping." Hades (Greek) and Sheol (Hebrew) was the place the soul went prior to Christ's redemption. Hades /Sheol was separated by a gulf. Here all "slept" waiting.

Why do I keep harping on the Destruction of the Temple and the literal passing of the Law in 70 AD when everyone else thinks its a minor footnote in history? Because sin still has power over us until the Law passes away ("the power of sin is the Law"). In other words, the LAW is the KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL!!

The Law did not pass away immediately on the Cross. Christ's blood redeemed us but the second half needed to "restore all things" was the passing away of the Law. Christ death on the Cross did NOT entirely end the Law. The destruction of the temple finished the Law!! Paul makes this point in Romans 7 as he is clearly influenced by the Law (revealing sin) even though Christ had already died and risen forgiving the sins of the world, past, present and future.

Romans 8 specifically states that if you are still living under the Law, you are spiritually dead but if you live in Christ you are spiritually alive. The temple was the very symbol of the Law. Christ taught that He would rebuild the temple in 3 days. We are taught that we believers are all part of the new spiritual temple with Christ as our Chief Cornerstone. The earth temple represents flesh, blood and decay, just like our human bodies. The spiritual temple represents presence with the Lord (spiritual life). This is why I get upset with those who want a new earth temple, the very symbol of spiritual death and corruption. If you are thinking "earthly temple" you are carnally minded which is death. If you are spiritually minded you are thinking life and peace (Rom 8:6-8).

For 2,000 years the Jewish nation was tied to the Law and the Temple. They looked upon it as their way to salvation/redemption. Christ returning in 70 AD to destroy the temple was hugely important. It was here, that the Law officially and completely ended freeing them all from it. Christ has the key of Death and Hades (spiritual separation). He decides who comes to the Father (through Him). Christ defeated Death and Hades. They are no more for us, they are only for the sinner awaiting the final resurrection and judgment.

Bogadile · Jul 18, 2017

J7 said:

Sorry friend I am finnish, I did not understand all those words, what do you mean exactly? I did check out the words from the dictionary but what are you saying. I am asking when did Daniel 12:2 get fulfilled, the part where it says that some rose to shame and everlasting contempt.

There is a case to be made in matthew 27 that the OT saints rose with Christ, but I do not see a biblical case for the latter part, that some rose to everlasting contempt.

And yes my questions were honest.

J7 · Jul 18, 2017

Just trying to work it out Bogadile.

It seems like the good dead, the Saints, rose immediately to eternal physical life.

Jesus also spent three days preaching to the bad dead:

[FONT=&quot]1 Peter 3 18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

[/FONT]

J7 · Jul 18, 2017

Bogadile said:

Sorry friend I am finnish, I did not understand all those words, what do you mean exactly? I did check out the words from the dictionary but what are you saying. I am asking when did Daniel 12:2 get fulfilled, the part where it says that some rose to shame and everlasting contempt.

There is a case to be made in matthew 27 that the OT saints rose with Christ, but I do not see a biblical case for the latter part, that some rose to everlasting contempt.

And yes my questions were honest.

Sorry Bogadile, I was joking. Don't worry.

VCO · Jul 18, 2017

PennEd said:

Righteous Elijah Raptured before the Great Tribulation.

Malachi 3:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] "For I, the LORD, do not change;
therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed.

You make a VERY GOOD POINT Brother.

PlainWord · Jul 18, 2017

Bogadile said:

Where is the rapture in this passage?

"...but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. [SUP]27 [/SUP]And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, [SUP]28 [/SUP]so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation."

Do you see an exception to dying in this passage? Does it say, "except for those who are raptured?" The text has you going from death to judgment. Where's your rapture and where's your resurrection? They aren't there because they haven't happened yet.

You see when He appears a second time (AD 70) it's for salvation. If He hasn't appeared yet, then you are not saved yet and everyone is still asleep in Hades. The fact is, He did appear in 70 AD, He destroyed the temple and ended the Law permanently. He resurrected the dead and took them to heaven. The living saints were changed SPIRITUALLY, not PHYSICALLY. This is why John lived out His life to 98 AD and was able to disciple several of the early church leaders like Polycarp who looked forward to death and immediately being with the Lord without first having to sleep in Hades.

PlainWord · Jul 18, 2017

Got to run, back later. If the rapture comes before I get back, I'll see you in the clouds and I'll catch a couple of crows on the way up.

J7 · Jul 18, 2017

or you could stone them

Dan_473 · Jul 18, 2017

J7 said:

reminds me of

PSALMS 43: send out your light and

your truth.

Let them lead me. Let them bring me to your holy hill, To your tents.

VCO · Jul 18, 2017

VCO said:

In that short speech, he is warning about a POLITICAL MOVEMENT, to TAKE OVER the E.U., which will drive several other Countries to quit the E.U. THAT IS THE HANDWRITING ON THE WALL, that will reduce it to 10 Members, with ONE POLITICAL LEADER.

VCO · Jul 18, 2017

Jackson123 said:

Not the British Speaker, Nigel Farage, but the Leader of that Political Movement to take over the E.U. that Farage is warning will drive several other countries out of the E.U. That very well could be the Antichrist, the Little Horn as he is called in Prophecy, being revealed already.

VCO · Jul 18, 2017

J7 said:

I thought it was HILARIOUS. LOL

Dan_473 · Jul 18, 2017

RickyZ said:

'...let's multiply the loaves and fishes and feed them.'

you mean work miracles?

would you kill someone who was trying to take from your stockpile? food or maybe a jacket?

RickyZ · Jul 18, 2017

Dan_473 said:

Yes work miracles. Why not?

Again, if someone was hungry I'd feed them. If someone was cold I'd share a coat. If someone is just looking to rob and steal for themselves, then hopefully I can persuade them otherwise. Me and my li'l friend.

The Rapture

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