The Gun Thread

[PeterJens]

Let me interject something real. Taking someones life is a terrible thing to have to do.
To put that responsibility onto someone not capable of such a choice is not wise.

But everytime you say, it could cost you life if you do not carry, you fear them into
something that is more likely to kill them than save their lives.

More guns simply means more deaths.
How many kids pick guns up from parents, shoot themselves or someone else playing?

How many weapons are missused by others rather than the owner?
Why? Because there are not boundaries, but this idea if you push fear and training
on to people you will save their lives, rather than doom them to live in fear all their
lives over issues that will probably never effect them.

Once you introduce a weapon and killing someone to a live situation, people will die.
And you may not believe it, it is random. But no gun, no death.

As a society you need to see guns are never justified, they just mean failure has
happened, and things have gone bad. People will die.

I thought believers would understand the way of peace, not the way of war and my
rights to remove your life if you threaten me. Jesus's way is I will give my life to save
yours, not I take your life to save mine.

 

[EarnestQ]

So tell me, Peterjens, should she dial 911 instead?

 

[shittim]

another "subject" has spoken. No offense intended, please accept, I think the difference between being a subject and a citizen
is important to understand how each side looks at it.
The point you illustrate to me in your response is that you don't think of a firearm in terms of anything but hurting people, I don't think you should own a firearm, and many are they from the United Kingdom whose view is the same. Being an American brings responsibilities we accept. We don't like a slack jawed Cretan from the government telling us what we need, especially since we, as a nation, need to be ready to bail out another Allie, again.

 

[PeterJens]

So tell me, Peterjens, should she dial 911 instead?

Tazer them, pepper spray, and this situation is a typical hyperthetical one.

Women are propositioned everyday on every trip into the public domain.
A gun is not going to take that threat away or change most assaults.

Most assaults come from behind and the person is helpless on the floor before
they know whats happened and the is now in the captors possession, so they
just made it 100% worse.

This is why statistics are unless you can really protect yourself, get distance between
you and the attacker it is pointless and probably you more vulnerable.

Guys are 50% stronger than women, so women start off in a bad place.
The best strategy is no fear, and bluff your way through. More people have stayed
alive through this than anything else. Maybe you have never really spoken to women

 

[shittim]

American men are 50% stronger anyway, I hear there was a movement in Europe to get rid of urinals so men had to squat to go.
American male citizens stand up.
Hope you find someone who believes what you believe, don't look for it here in an American Christian site.
"and in that day you will need a sword".
best wishes

 

[EarnestQ]

Tazer them, pepper spray, and this situation is a typical hyperthetical one.

Women are propositioned everyday on every trip into the public domain.
A gun is not going to take that threat away or change most assaults.

Most assaults come from behind and the person is helpless on the floor before
they know whats happened and the is now in the captors possession, so they
just made it 100% worse.

This is why statistics are unless you can really protect yourself, get distance between
you and the attacker it is pointless and probably you more vulnerable.

Guys are 50% stronger than women, so women start off in a bad place.
The best strategy is no fear, and bluff your way through. More people have stayed
alive through this than anything else. Maybe you have never really spoken to women

Maybe you have never really spoken to a woman.

 

[zeroturbulence]

Let's see if I can shed some light here....

Imagine for a second that you are a lowly criminal looking to steal a woman's purse..

Which one of these two women would you least likely try to steal it from....

This woman?

or this woman...

I rest my case..

 

[shittim]

Of course it is a difficult thing to do and will change a persons life, justified or not, it will still change a person's life.
That is a way the anti recreational shooting people quickly go to the emotional. Reasonable decisions are made with reason, not emotion.
best wishes

 

[Oncefallen]

Source..?? That sounds like a totally fake fact to me. That comes to 19 children a day! Including weekends and holidays!

Most likely the stat is accurate. It probably includes all firearm related deaths of anyone under the age of 18 including accidents, suicide, and criminal activity (the death being either victim or perpetrator).

 

[PeterJens]

So the defence against stealing with the loss of maybe $100, one should kill someone dead.
Now imagine a crowded street, the person holding the gun just lets a few fly because they
are scared and they just wanted to get their own back.

Three people lie dead, because somebody decided carrying a gun hidden, would stop a
theft. Deterrents only work if seen and if seen the attacker will use one in response.

I was on a Christian community ship in some dangerous situations, and we never carried
guns. We would rather die that take a sinners life.

The difference between becoming capable of killing another person, safely and being
a civilian is vast. Most will never make this jump, but the culture assumes it makes
sense to destroy ones own life let alone someone elses.

 

[Yahweh_is_gracious]

So the defence against stealing with the loss of maybe $100, one should kill someone dead.
Now imagine a crowded street, the person holding the gun just lets a few fly because they
are scared and they just wanted to get their own back.

Three people lie dead, because somebody decided carrying a gun hidden, would stop a
theft. Deterrents only work if seen and if seen the attacker will use one in response.

I was on a Christian community ship in some dangerous situations, and we never carried
guns. We would rather die that take a sinners life.

The difference between becoming capable of killing another person, safely and being
a civilian is vast. Most will never make this jump, but the culture assumes it makes
sense to destroy ones own life let alone someone elses.

The biggest flaw (among many) in your argument is assuming that all people who carry guns would pull it and discharge it over a mugging. You are using reductive logic, making gun carrying people out to be something other than they are in 99.9% of cases, merely to try and make your point.

If you don't understand why people here in America carry guns, or for what reasons, that is perfectly okay to admit. We won't think less of your for mere ignorance. However, when you try doing like the other British fellow that was in here a few pages back who was trying to speak as an expert on a topic he had NO idea about, then you merely look silly.

There is an axiom that most of us who carry weapons regularly have heard and we have taken it to heart "There is a lawyer attached to every single round in your weapon". Not all of us here in the USA are gun-nut hillbillies that just blast away indiscriminately at everything that moves, nor are we LOOKING for reasons to use our weapons outside of the pistol range. Do try to keep that in mind in future responses to this thread. You'd hate if we took you as the example to judge all of your fellow countrymen by, so extend us the same courtesy.

 

[Tinuviel]

Let me interject something real. Taking someones life is a terrible thing to have to do.
To put that responsibility onto someone not capable of such a choice is not wise.

But everytime you say, it could cost you life if you do not carry, you fear them into
something that is more likely to kill them than save their lives.

More guns simply means more deaths.
How many kids pick guns up from parents, shoot themselves or someone else playing?

How many weapons are missused by others rather than the owner?
Why? Because there are not boundaries, but this idea if you push fear and training
on to people you will save their lives, rather than doom them to live in fear all their
lives over issues that will probably never effect them.

Once you introduce a weapon and killing someone to a live situation, people will die.
And you may not believe it, it is random. But no gun, no death.

As a society you need to see guns are never justified, they just mean failure has
happened, and things have gone bad. People will die.

I thought believers would understand the way of peace, not the way of war and my
rights to remove your life if you threaten me. Jesus's way is I will give my life to save
yours, not I take your life to save mine.

Nope. absolutely no death. And you can't use the jawbone of a donkey or a tent peg, either.

 

[Tinuviel]

Tazer them, pepper spray, and this situation is a typical hyperthetical one.

Women are propositioned everyday on every trip into the public domain.
A gun is not going to take that threat away or change most assaults.

Most assaults come from behind and the person is helpless on the floor before
they know whats happened and the is now in the captors possession, so they
just made it 100% worse.

This is why statistics are unless you can really protect yourself, get distance between
you and the attacker it is pointless and probably you more vulnerable.

Guys are 50% stronger than women, so women start off in a bad place.
The best strategy is no fear, and bluff your way through. More people have stayed
alive through this than anything else. Maybe you have never really spoken to women

Man, you would have enjoyed the women's self-defense course I took! I suggest looking into your facts before you randomly spout information.

Their three main points in the course?

1. Take. Them. Out. Pepper spray and tasers don't work on druggies, and how can you know?

2. For women, who do not have the upper body strength, it is 100% easier to take out an attacker on the ground, so let them take you down. Scary? Yeah. But it actually does work.

3. Do not leave the attacker until they are demobilized. You do not want to run away with a possibility of them coming after you.

Your statement about not showing fear is 100% correct! But, wouldn't it be easier to have a gun? And wouldn't attackers be less likely to attack if they thought the women they were attacking might have a gun?

For being a man, you sure talk pretty big about what women should do and what women are.

 

[Desdichado]

All I'll say is I've had to use my gun or knowledge of my gun ownership more than once.

If I didn't, I would have likely been grievously injured or just knifed to death. Those who threatened me walked away unscathed.

This is how most confrontations involving guns end. Criminals are by and large selfish and materialistic.

 

[Desdichado]

50% stronger?

Stronger how?

Where did you get that number from?

If you mean physically, I've heard the opposite. We ceased to be proportionally stronger and taller than most other first-world countries because of a better nutritional regime after WWII.

I'm open to new information though. And I've never been to any other country except Canada.

American men are 50% stronger anyway, I hear there was a movement in Europe to get rid of urinals so men had to squat to go.
American male citizens stand up.
Hope you find someone who believes what you believe, don't look for it here in an American Christian site.
"and in that day you will need a sword".
best wishes

 

[GaryA]

Criminals are by and large selfish and materialistic.

- and, cowards...

( They will only consider involving themselves in an 'unfair' fight - when they think they have "the upper hand"... )

 

[hornetguy]

Most likely the stat is accurate. It probably includes all firearm related deaths of anyone under the age of 18 including accidents, suicide, and criminal activity (the death being either victim or perpetrator).

It would be very telling to hear the age range for the "children" that die each year from gunfire.

Not too many years ago, there was a study like that, and "children" were defined as any age up to 25.... so the statistics about firearms related deaths of "children" included the 17-25 age group, which is the most common age of gang-bangers...

Not exactly a "true" statement about how "children" are affected by gunfire. If you stopped the statistics at age 15 or 16, the numbers would be dramatically lower.

 

[mj007]

And what is the possibility that the perpetrator has a gun?

Let's see if I can shed some light here....

Imagine for a second that you are a lowly criminal looking to steal a woman's purse..

Which one of these two women would you least likely try to steal it from....

This woman?

or this woman...

I rest my case..

 

[Burninglight]

A self defense item that is legal to carry anywhere is wasp spray.

What does wasp spray do to a person?

 

[shittim]

figured don't lie, but liars can be doing the figuring!