The Law of Moses Has Not Been Abolished

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Dec 9, 2011
14,094
1,792
113
IMO we have to walk as He walked if we are going to be one with Him.
GOD equipped us,we are His workmanship created In CHRIST JESUS unto good works,preordained that we should walk In them.

JESUS,the vine and we,the branches receiving sustenance from the vine and displaying the fruit.
IE
an apple doesn't have to strain to be an apple,just receive sustenance.

Without JESUS we could do nothing on our own.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
Originally Posted by Grandpa

You can either perpetuate the error of the ancient people before you or you can come to Christ to receive rest.

Its up to you.

Well, supposedly, according to carnal men.
you keep dodging the questions.
I don't see what is so difficult about my answer. I laid it out as simply as possible.

and we let the Most High work in us by teaching others to not follow the example of Jesus?
yes or no?

Your question is just circular logic. God working in us doesn't cause us to teach others. Gods working in us causes us to recognize Gods Teaching in others words.

what error did the ancient people do? the pharisees were experts on the law, Jesus never rebuked them on if they believed the law. Jesus taught against their actions. not their bible knowledge, not belief but their complete lack of works.
What error did the ancient people do??? They told God to tell them what to do and they would do it. God told them, Be Like Me.

They said ok.

The Lord Jesus has said, and lived, Be Perfect Like your Father in Heaven is Perfect.

Its great that you have the desire to follow after His Lead. I can't comprehend how you can think "Yes, I've got this". I can't really understand how the ancient people before you thought the same thing. But it obviously happens.

Do you think that is the wide road? The one where people think they are going the right way. And nothing anyone says can deter them because they know they are following the Law. I suppose if there is a vail over your mind you would never be able to tell someone that there is a vail over your mind. You wouldn't ever know until it came off.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
So how did you receive the point of Jaybird's comment, that he didn't agree with you about sin? What he said was the message that the gospel gives us; the very essence of what the Scripture's message is.! And he said it accurately to a tee. How did your spirit miss it?

Jesus came to make right our relationship with God by laying payment thru His own blood on a Cross, He now is our bridge to having a pure relationship once again, starting from innocence and equipping us to remain that way, this relationship doesn't start after we die, it starts on day one of Salvation, and isn't that awesome! Smile. So, our position in His family is guaranteed by the Cross, but we still have to experience that victory for ourselves implementing all the power God has given us in Christ, otherwise we would not also realize our death that also happened on that Cross, nor would we be able to conquer our own sins ( plural; or the particulars of sin).

If I just say, "Yeah I died there, and He conquered sin (not plural) there on that Cross..." how is that our reality? But when we are asked to give God our sins ( the result of, and identifier of sin) strongholds and stand against it, being empowered by God thru Jesus Christ ---> And DO it, now it becomes our reality. God wants to show His glory in our changed behaviors, mightily so in our weak bodies. How can His purposes and intentions be served if we never actually change? If we never make all that God did that we could not, not also our reality?

How can we expect God to hear us say "No" to His sinless plan that He set in motion before we were born by-way of Jesus Christ when He sent His Son to die for that very reason? We so can live the life of Jesus Christ!!

You have broadly opened the door to Gods grace, which is true - on the Cross. Are you equally broadly opening up your heart to your death on that same Cross? It does take time to get there, but that will always be God's point in YOUR life. Any other message is not from Him.

So, Yes, you are half right! Only Jesus was pure enough to pay the price for our sins <-----(Plural), and God thru Jesus took care of sin <-------- (not plural). But now in Salvation we have been made pure and innocent, and God has placed us in Christ to do just the opposite of what your second part referred to: We are now empowered by God with Jesus sitting at the right hand of God interceding for us to stand ourselves against sin (in Christ) now. We ourselves are asked by God to be holy as Christ Jesus was holy. We ourselves are asked to sin (meaning the plural version; the particulars of sin) no more. So now the rest is up to us to accomplish. Will we in starting out struggle with this - yes! For we are still babes in Christ. Will we even struggle for a spell- yes! Because adolescence is short-sighted sometimes, will we still suffer into adulthood - we should begin not to! For by now God has been working on you to change from death to life . From the soulish-living to the Spirit-life. Now this is not chronological age, but Spiritual aging. So, God is patient and is always onward and upward in developing His children. But note this: Christ is only interested in us being a participant in the life He lived - otherwise you are at risk, even after regeneration of God's judgement. For we all die once, and are judged. Your spirit, not your soul knows that!
So are you saying you have the same problem that Jaybird does?

You think you can do a better job by emulation than God can by His Work in you?


Do you think there will ever be a time when you are so spiritually mature that you will be able to say to the Lord "Don't worry, I've got this one"???

If there is anything I have learned it is that my sufficiency is not in myself but in God.
 

slave

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2015
6,307
1,098
113
IMO we have to walk as He walked if we are going to be one with Him.
* Actually,We have to be one with Him, to walk as He walked, this is a vital positional issue.
 

slave

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2015
6,307
1,098
113
So are you saying you have the same problem that Jaybird does?

You think you can do a better job by emulation than God can by His Work in you?


Do you think there will ever be a time when you are so spiritually mature that you will be able to say to the Lord "Don't worry, I've got this one"???

If there is anything I have learned it is that my sufficiency is not in myself but in God.
Well, is that what you get out of my article, or did you even read it with an open mind?
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
* So, in the ways of practical-living; daily-living where do you stand in God's chain of command?
I am just a soldier in His Kingdom. So, I suppose, on the bottom.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
Well, is that what you get out of my article, or did you even read it with an open mind?
It kind of seemed like that is what you were saying.

Which is what Jaybird was saying as well.
 
Z

zohar

Guest
Christians don’t like the laws given to the Jews because Jesus broke the laws.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
I don't see what is so difficult about my answer. I laid it out as simply as possible.

your responding but not answering the question. if Jesus is not our example who is.

Its great that you have the desire to follow after His Lead. I can't comprehend how you can think "Yes, I've got this". I can't really understand how the ancient people before you thought the same thing. But it obviously happens.

Do you think that is the wide road? The one where people think they are going the right way. And nothing anyone says can deter them because they know they are following the Law. I suppose if there is a vail over your mind you would never be able to tell someone that there is a vail over your mind. You wouldn't ever know until it came off.
i dont think i have it, i may fail every day but Jesus is the only example one should look to.

IMO its more than belief, its about doing what you believe. doing what you believe, practice what you preach, i dont see a difference and this is exactly what Jesus told the pharisees.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
"The Law of Moses Has Not Been Abolished"

But its purpose was fulfilled.
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,915
817
113
No its you misinterpreting what Scripture says. Blameless mean above reproach by men. It did not mean sinless,
"By men"? It is written...

Luke 1:6
Both of them were righteous in the sight of God , observing all the Lord's commands and decrees blamelessly.

I encourage you to take any version of this passage. Do you accept what is written? Yes or no.


Only because of my substitute. If you think you are accepted as innocent without Christ's intervention, then God help you.
I am innocent when my God and my Judge, Christ, forgives me of my sins, only after i boldly go to the throne of mercy and confess my sins; the way made available by his blood. Because it is written...

John 5:22
"For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:"

And again it is written...

John 8:36
If the Son therefore shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.

I encourage you to take any version of this passage. Do you accept what is written? Yes or no.

I believe God will dwell with His people. But in eternity, not in some false millennial kingdom.
That's kind of the problem. What you believe and what is written don't mesh. It is written that *after* the millennium (which was ch20)...

Revelation 21:2-3, 23-26
I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God...

23 The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp.

24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it.

25 On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there.

26 The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it.


I encourage you to take any version of this passage. Do you accept what is written? Yes or no.


It is because He holds me permanently righteous, that I seek to be righteous in union with Christ.
Why do you seek to be righteous if you are permanently righteous? No, you seek to be righteous because the Spirit of God in you moves you to obey God's law. And you were pardoned of your sins so that you could do so.

you will strive unsuccessfully to keep the Law? lol
It is written...

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

And it is written...

Matthew 19:26
"...with God all things are possible."

And it is written...

Ephesians 3:16
That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;

And it is written...

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

I encourage you to take any version of these passages. Do you accept what is written? Yes or no.
 
Apr 26, 2017
67
0
0
Yes, faith goes hand and hand with our doing(the law). To avoid sin you must know the commandments. And Faith is believing in Christ that He is Lord and that He had died for our sins. So we need both to be considered righteous.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
63
"By men"? It is written...

Luke 1:6
Both of them were righteous in the sight of God , observing all the Lord's commands and decrees blamelessly.

I encourage you to take any version of this passage. Do you accept what is written? Yes or no.
They were blameless before men, who else?. They were righteous before God, just as Lot was (2 Peter 2.7), in other words compared with others. But not righteous in themselves. Or do you think Lot was blameless :) Yes or no?


I am innocent when my God and my Judge, Christ, forgives me of my sins,
you are not innocent, otherwise you would have no sins


only after i boldly go to the throne of mercy and confess my sins; the way made available by his blood. Because it is written...

John 5:22
"For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:"
So the Son finds you guilty but forgiven?


And again it is written...

John 8:36
If the Son therefore shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.
How can you be innocent if you have to be set free?

I encourage you to take any version of this passage. Do you accept what is written? Yes or no.
I believe it talks of being set free. NOT of blamelessness

That's kind of the problem. What you believe and what is written don't mesh.
Yes its the problem I have with you.

It is written that *after* the millennium (which was ch20)...
But which millennium? The One where Christ is reigning over the earth NOW?


Revelation 21:2-3, 23-26

I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God...

23 The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp.

24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their splendor into it.

25 On no day will its gates ever be shut, for there will be no night there.

26 The glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it.
But this is the NEW earth, the spiritual earth (21.1),

I encourage you to take any version of this passage. Do you accept what is written? Yes or no.
I accept what is written, I DO NOT accept your theories about it.


Why do you seek to be righteous if you are permanently righteous? No, you seek to be righteous because the Spirit of God in you moves you to obey God's law. And you were pardoned of your sins so that you could do so.
Then you are NOT righteous or blameless!!!!!!


It is written...

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
so you are not righteous, only trying to be?

And it is written...

Matthew 19:26
"...with God all things are possible."
But you have admitted you need to be forgiven. Therefore you cannot be blameless. And that is what you claimed in the beginning

And it is written...

Ephesians 3:16
That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
because you are not blameless

And it is written...

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;
How does this make you blameless. You have forgotten what you are arguing LOL

Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

I encourage you to take any version of these passages. Do you accept what is written? Yes or no.
you started off by claiming to be blameless. then you prove you a not blameless. What ARE you trying to prove?
 
Z

zohar

Guest
Matthew 21:12 Jesus interrupt the preparation for the Passover using violent.
Also the story of the fig tree was a wrong thing to do.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
before Jesus walked, back when the Jews did their temple offering, did they also have a ritual after the offering, when they threw out the commandments, like so many do today?
 
Z

zohar

Guest
The answer to your ? is no. And the offering wasn't a sin offering; Jesus died in the wrong holiday.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
Its a pretty big temptation to want to live by your own perceived wisdom. Especially when you think you are exceedingly wise.


I wonder how people can come to Christ and still want to live by their own strength and wisdom contained in their knowledge of the law. I guess Paul wondered the same thing. It must be a pretty big temptation.