The Law of Moses Has Not Been Abolished

[slave]

and we let the Most High work in us by teaching others to not follow the example of Jesus?

Amen...Brother!...We need to see things thru God's eyes right? And only Spirit can understand Spirit right?, so we need to understand why the law (not the Pharisees law, or man's laws) but God's Holy Laws were implemented in the first place:

[h=1]Romans 5:20New International Version (NIV)[/h]20 The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more,

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law; or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them." (Matthew 5:17).

so now, in Christ, we, who are holy in Christ Jesus, must live as Jesus lived!

"Whoever claims to live in Him must live as Jesus did." (1 John 2:6).

 

[Yahshua]

Show me one person who by obeying the law became a righteous person (able to stand on his own)

I read the OT I see a bunch of sinners called saints,, But I do not see one person who by the law became righteous people..

Luke 1:5-6
5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zachariah, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.

6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Christ hadn't gone to the cross yet so this passage is technically still OT. We probably can assume Elijah and Enoch were also blameless since they were taken up (but admittedly there's nothing directly stating these two followed God's law). So there were at least a couple who were called righteous walking in the law of God blamelessly...and is it any wonder that John was born to them (filled with the Holy Spirit)?

But when Paul says "no one will be justified by the work of the law" he's talking about we who are in a state of *having already broken* it. So if I'm caught breaking a law in my town, and taken to jail and sentenced by the judge, I can't subsequently follow that law I already broke in an attempt to "uncatch" or "unbreak" that law in order to justify myself and make myself right with the law. I can't. I'm already guilty. My only hope is in the mercy of the judge to pardon me for my crime. I have no say in the matter. There's nothing I can do. It's all in the judge's hands now. All I can do is have faith that the judge will forgive me of my crime. So what Paul says is 1000% true.

....but after I'm forgiven and set right with the law (by the Judge) I'm expected to obey the law in my town.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

* So, in the ways of practical-living; daily-living where do you stand in God's chain of command?

Guilty as charged.

You?

 

[seed_time_harvest]

This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”[SUP][c][/SUP]

[SUP]13 [/SUP]By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

There is no room in Christianity to observe the old traditions....so when He said i will write the law upon their hearts means they are no longer written on paper to follow...now the law on our hearts is love and when we love, we fulfil every law there ever was...and just peek in at John 6...whoever comes to me comes to the father..He did not say comes to me from the father...there is a distinct difference...it may take some meditation to grasp that but it is worth it

Amen,and we love because GOD first loved us.

 

[valiant]

Luke 1:5-6
5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zachariah, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.

6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Christ hadn't gone to the cross yet so this passage is technically still OT. We probably can assume Elijah and Enoch were also blameless since they were taken up (but admittedly there's nothing directly stating these two followed God's law). So there were at least a couple who were called righteous walking in the law of God blamelessly...and is it any wonder that John was born to them (filled with the Holy Spirit)?

So Zachariah lost his voice through being blameless? Hmmmm.

But when Paul says "no one will be justified by the work of the law" he's talking about we who are in a state of *having already broken* it. So if I'm caught breaking a law in my town, and taken to jail and sentenced by the judge, I can't subsequently follow that law I already broke in an attempt to "uncatch" or "unbreak" that law in order to justify myself and make myself right with the law. I can't. I'm already guilty. My only hope is in the mercy of the judge to pardon me for my crime. I have no say in the matter. There's nothing I can do. It's all in the judge's hands now. All I can do is have faith that the judge will forgive me of my crime. So what Paul says is 1000% true.

Justification means I am actually counted as righteous . It is more than a pardon. I stand before God in His actual righteousness.

....but after I'm forgiven and set right with the law (by the Judge) I'm expected to obey the law in my town.

justification is more than forgiveness. I am permanently righteous in God's sight. He has NOTHING against me.

That is where your illustration fails. It is based on earthly reasoning. From the heavenly legal viewpoint nothing is expected of me. I am permanently righteous.

You can strive to keep the law, and fail. I prefer Christ's righteousness

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Luke 1:5-6
5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zachariah, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.

6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Christ hadn't gone to the cross yet so this passage is technically still OT. We probably can assume Elijah and Enoch were also blameless since they were taken up (but admittedly there's nothing directly stating these two followed God's law). So there were at least a couple who were called righteous walking in the law of God blamelessly...and is it any wonder that John was born to them (filled with the Holy Spirit)?

But when Paul says "no one will be justified by the work of the law" he's talking about we who are in a state of *having already broken* it. So if I'm caught breaking a law in my town, and taken to jail and sentenced by the judge, I can't subsequently follow that law I already broke in an attempt to "uncatch" or "unbreak" that law in order to justify myself and make myself right with the law. I can't. I'm already guilty. My only hope is in the mercy of the judge to pardon me for my crime. I have no say in the matter. There's nothing I can do. It's all in the judge's hands now. All I can do is have faith that the judge will forgive me of my crime. So what Paul says is 1000% true.

....but after I'm forgiven and set right with the law (by the Judge) I'm expected to obey the law in my town.

Where does it say they did this by obeying the law?

Please try to read before you comment, it would be so much easier. I already showed How David, Under law, showed it was not by obeying the law that we became righteous. SO you can not use the fact they were under law as proof.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Following Jesus example.

Jesus gave us the instructions, and lived them out, He loved people. and put their needs above his own..

Jesus said, Love. Love fulfills the law..

You do not become righteous by following the law. You do it by loving others.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Luke 18:18-22
18 Then a certain ruler asked Him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

19 “Why do you call Me good? Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone. 20 You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not bear false witness, honor your father and mother.’”

21“All these have I kept from my youth,” he said.

22 On hearing this, Jesus told him, “You still lack one thing: Sell everything you own and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow Me.


Revelation 14:12
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.


...Like a broken record the same two instructions keep being repeated. Both said by Christ; once before the cross, and again after the cross in the last book. But what does Christ know lol

How does a person make their spirit just and perfect and sealed?Paul wrote,I delight In the law of GOD after the Inward man,but I see another law In my members warring against the law of my mind and bringing me Into captivity to the law of sin which Is In my members.

JESUS was born under the law and HE was fully GOD and fully man.The rich young ruler said to JESUS, "good master" JESUS asked him,why do you call me "good"?,there Is no one good but GOD.

Of course we all know that JESUS Is GOD but the man chose to approach JESUS as fully man,since he chose to approach JESUS as a good master Instead Of fully GOD,JESUS directed him to the law.

In other words look to GOD to make the Spirit clean.

 

[slave]

Guilty as charged.

You?

"Dead to sin; and the flesh" And "Alive in Christ Jesus my Lord; made holy by my experiences in Him; thru my obedience to my chain of command leadership: God the Father giving this to me, by way of the Son of God, and in time finally and realistically being, that, in evidence of me."

I live now on the basis that "All things are possible thru Jesus Christ!" and that "It is not my will, but thy will be done." I died on that Cross, but now I must too transform into living as such. And as I stay loyal to His Word, and remain in Christ, He Himself fights my fights for me as I step out into the world in Him, claiming His, now, rightful position in me, remembering my fight is not against flesh and blood but against the principalities of darkness (satan and his co-horts) Nonetheless, all the while it is my fight; so I sit in things already accomplished in Christ - yes! But I also live it, because His victory is also mine!. I am no longer guilty of anything....I am pure, for I have made the death I died with Christ on His Cross a reality in my own thoughts and behaviors." Radically going thru His transformative stages in my life using violence against anything that is not of Himself that is within me- which is a process.This is the real life of His Children.

I would be still be crying, and not rejoicing, if I was still, after Jesus died for me: found, "Guilty as charged." Positionally; and experientially! Only the flesh has that sentence that still remains in me, but I don't mix the flesh with my spirit living by His spirit. I am out to live a spirit-filled life; and let the death of my flesh on the Cross become my real death in my experiences to lay my flesh, just in that position (death) thru obedience - sanctified -Holy.

Part of the problem I see is we forget the Scripture that says, "Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus." and is coupled with the fact we can only discern His Spirit with our spirt and never by our flesh. Many a Christian who (do) love Jesus Christ in their heart denies Him in their heads.

When we become identified with Him He relates us to Himself as He was related to His Father. "......that they be one, even as We are one." This is , then our Chain of command, we must submit to.

 

[Yahshua]

Where does it say they did this by obeying the law?Please try to read before you comment, it would be so much easier. I already showed How David, Under law, showed it was not by obeying the law that we became righteous. SO you can not use the fact they were under law as proof.

lol did you really just say *I* needed to read? Oh...you were serious.


-Righteous
-Walking in (this means to obey)
-blameless

The only way this doesn't answer your question is if you don't want to read the passage. Zechariah and Elizabeth were considered "blameless", not sinners. People *thought* they sinned because they hadn't had a child though trying all their lives.

Also "Under Law" is a phrase that means "under the judgment there of". So once again, let's walk through this...

When someone has broken a law...

They are under the law's judgement...

Can't obey that law to become "right" again...

Because they're already guilty...

Need to be set "right" first by the judge's pardon...

Or set "right" by satisfying the law through punishment...

Then...

"rightness" is set

In out case...

Our punishment (death) was too steep...

So our Judge in his mercy pardoned us...

Now set we're set "right" in the eyes of the Law...

Now we walk in "rightness" (again, walk means to obey)

 

[Yahshua]

So Zachariah lost his voice through being blameless? Hmmmm.

He still was blameless...but that's just me accepting scripture again lol. I don't need to besmirch two of God's righteous people just because my beliefs don't fit them. Doing so would make me feel too much like "the one who accuses the breatheren day and night"; always looking for something wrong with them to show they're unworthy of God's good favor. No I'll just believe scripture thank you very much

Justification means I am actually counted as righteous . It is more than a pardon. I stand before God in His actual righteousness.

Nope, no substitution. You are yourself set by God's judgment as "innocent".

justification is more than forgiveness. I am permanently righteous in God's sight. He has NOTHING against me.

That is where your illustration fails. It is based on earthly reasoning. From the heavenly legal viewpoint nothing is expected of me. I am permanently righteous.

You can strive to keep the law, and fail. I prefer Christ's righteousness

lol You don't even believe God's plan is to dwell with his people at the end of days like scripture says so by all means if you believe nothing is expected of you and that you're "permanently" righteous then hopefully you had a ball in your life, and I wish you many more days to come. But as for me and my house...well I think you know the rest

 

[Yahshua]

How does a person make their spirit just and perfect and sealed?Paul wrote,I delight In the law of GOD after the Inward man,but I see another law In my members warring against the law of my mind and bringing me Into captivity to the law of sin which Is In my members.

Notice how you've correctly distinguished between the different laws at play:

A) The law of God (inward man)

B) "Another" law

C) Law of (Paul's) mind

D) The law of Sin

The law of God is the law of Paul's mind (His inward man); the law Paul WANTS to follow. "The spirit is wiling" But his flesh is at war with God and could not submit to God's law (the law of Paul's inward man; the law he wants to follow). By that he knows that the Law of God is good. Paul is describing the struggle of the flesh. The problem is not with the law of God but with the flesh. So the law of God doesn't need to be handle or abolished. The flesh needs to be handled. This is why in Ephesians 2:15 Paul explains that in his flesh Christ abolished the *enmity* so that we, in the Spirit, could finally submit to God and do good works as God ordained.

JESUS was born under the law and HE was fully GOD and fully man.The rich young ruler said to JESUS, "good master" JESUS asked him,why do you call me "good"?,there Is no one good but GOD.

Of course we all know that JESUS Is GOD but the man chose to approach JESUS as fully man,since he chose to approach JESUS as a good master Instead Of fully GOD,JESUS directed him to the law.

In other words look to GOD to make the Spirit clean.

I fully agree to look to God to make one clean. He is the only one who can. That is *salvation* from judgment. Then once we are clean and empowered by his Holy Spirit (his Grace) we walk in righteousness; submitting to God like we never could before.

 

[PeterJens]

The mistake people make in righteous, holy, blameless does not mean they have
not sinned in their lives, but they have repented, trusted God, gone to the temple
offered the sacrifices, and be washed clean.

For some reason people are suggesting these terms means one has perfection before
the Lord.

People also miss the point about John the Baptist. He was born in communion with
God. This was unique, because he did not chose God or was saved, he was born
saved. It is also why Jesus says anyone born into the Kingdom is greater than he.

There are many phrases in scripture that are spoken without the conditions.
No one has seen God face to face, yet Moses did, Elijah did, Jesus did.
So a phrase can mean in general no one has seen God face to face, except those
who are specially anointed. No one is righteous, except those who have been washed
clean and stand redeemed before the King.

We have to work out the provisos. So we are saved if we believe in Christ. But this
is conditional on obeying Him, loving Him, loving the things He loves and staying in faith
with the Lord. Now this is obvious when you realise the faith is a living relationship,
which starts but never dies. To say it is still alive when it has died in a persons heart
is a contradiction. Born from on high, passing from death to life, is a reality, but once
you have life, there is always the possibility of death. If it was not possible how could
this be love, and how could satan have fallen?

It makes me wonder how people live inside their hearts with the relationships they have.
Are they so insecure, everything is up for grabs, or is there spiritual reality here as well?

 

[jaybird88]

You can either perpetuate the error of the ancient people before you or you can come to Christ to receive rest.

Its up to you.

Well, supposedly, according to carnal men.

you keep dodging the questions.

and we let the Most High work in us by teaching others to not follow the example of Jesus?

yes or no?

what error did the ancient people do? the pharisees were experts on the law, Jesus never rebuked them on if they believed the law. Jesus taught against their actions. not their bible knowledge, not belief but their complete lack of works.

 

[jaybird88]

Amen...Brother!...We need to see things thru God's eyes right? And only Spirit can understand Spirit right?, so we need to understand why the law (not the Pharisees law, or man's laws) but God's Holy Laws were implemented in the first place:

Romans 5:20New International Version (NIV)

20 The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more,

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law; or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them." (Matthew 5:17).

so now, in Christ, we, who are holy in Christ Jesus, must live as Jesus lived!

"Whoever claims to live in Him must live as Jesus did." (1 John 2:6).

IMO we have to walk as He walked if we are going to be one with Him.

 

[valiant]

He still was blameless...but that's just me accepting scripture again lol.

No its you misinterpreting what Scripture says. Blameless mean above reproach by men. It did not mean sinless,

I don't need to besmirch two of God's righteous people just because my beliefs don't fit them. Doing so would make me feel too much like "the one who accuses the breatheren day and night"; always looking for something wrong with them to show they're unworthy of God's good favor. No I'll just believe scripture thank you very much

see above, and admit it.

Nope, no substitution. You are yourself set by God's judgment as "innocent".

Only because of my substitute. If you think you are accepted as innocent without Christ's intervention, then God help you.

lol You don't even believe God's plan is to dwell with his people at the end of days like scripture says

I believe God will dwell with His people. But in eternity, not in some false millennial kingdom.

so by all means if you believe nothing is expected of you and that you're "permanently" righteous then hopefully you had a ball in your life, and I wish you many more days to come.

It is because He holds me permanently righteous, that I seek to be righteous in union with Christ.

But as for me and my house...well I think you know the rest

you will strive unsuccessfully to keep the Law? lol

 

[MadebyHim]

Show me one person who by obeying the law became a righteous person (able to stand on his own)

I read the OT I see a bunch of sinners called saints,, But I do not see one person who by the law became righteous people..

[SUP]5 [/SUP]Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul; 1Peter 2:5-11


They didn't stand alone, Jesus is always with us. Jesus knows its better that He sent them by 2s and 3s, we all need someone help us stand when we feel weak, and Jesus is the friend that sticks closer than a brother.

 

[MadebyHim]

Where does it say they did this by obeying the law?

Please try to read before you comment, it would be so much easier. I already showed How David, Under law, showed it was not by obeying the law that we became righteous. SO you can not use the fact they were under law as proof.

Not all see the obvious another see's, doesn't make one the lesser.

 

[MadebyHim]

IMO we have to walk as He walked if we are going to be one with Him.

He came and showed how to have Heaven on earth (here and now), not tomorrow.

 

[MadebyHim]

And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. Revelation 18:4