THE RAPTURE

[Quasar92]

Previously posted by PlainWord:

Your degrees explain your spiritual ignorance (said with love but with the force of truth). I wonder how many degrees the Pharisees and Sadducees had in their day? I bet they went to the finest universities and learned every nuance of the Law. But when it came to the spiritual matters that Jesus taught them, they were blind.

I am not encumbered by the foolish teachings of men. I have an Engineering degree and have excelled at various disciplines including nuclear engineering and quality engineering using advanced statistical analysis to solve very complex problems. I have worked in government and appeared before the US Senate as an expert witness. I worked in the private sector for several fortune 500 companies saving them tens of millions of dollars by solving complex manufacturing problems that they could not solve. I started by own business in my garage and have done over $50 million in sales.

What you post reveals you were never given the gift of prophecy, Nor have you ever had any formal training in eschatology. But rather, you propagate material that makes a charade out of the prophetic Scriptures. Who do you think gave us the Bible you have in your home to read? Human men! Beginning with the authors! That they were inspired y the Holy Spirit, is no excuse to denograte those human beings who teach the Bible at seminaries and Bible Colleges, as you do. You are in serious need for a change of attitude!


Quasar92

 

[PlainWord]

FYI, God's prophetic timetable pertaining to Israel, in Dan.9:24-27, temporarily ended with the destruction of the temple and of Jerusalem, 40 years after Jesus crucifixion in Dan.9:26, ending the 69th week, and 483 years of the 490 year prophecy. What you are engaging in has nothing whatever to do with Israel, in whom the prophecy is all about!

All you are doing is propogating false prophecy! I vigorously urge you to cut it out now! There isn't a shred of support for it in the Bible!


Quasar92

Are you saying that the 69 weeks ended in AD 70? Wrong again. You don't know your history. I vigorously urge you to cut it out now. 69 weeks ended when Messiah appeared to John the Baptist and the 70th week started immediately. In the middle of the 70th week, Messiah was cut off at week 69.5 and that ended the 70 weeks.

You are twisting the following:

1. The timing of the Lord's return (after the Tribulation of those days is taught)
2. 70 weeks of Daniel (they ended at the Cross)
3. The resurrections (there are only two, one spiritual for the saved, one physical for everyone)
4. The Great Tribulation (It is not the wrath of God, it is the attack on Israel by Muslims, their enemies)
5. The Wrath of God (It comes at the Day of the Lord and is after the Great Tribulation)
6. The seals, trumpets and bowls
7. The two witnesses
8. Timing of the Rapture (It comes after the resurrection, but just after)
9. The Falling away (it is the church losing power and faith)
10. There is no peace treaty which fools Israel
11. The King of the North will lead Islamic enemies against Israel
12. God' wrath comes in response at the Day of the Lord but not before 2/3 of Israel is cut-off.

The list goes on and on.

 

[Quasar92]

I believe the King of the North, AKA Man of Sin, AKA Son of Perdition, AKA the AntiChrist is alive today and in a prominent position of power. I believe I know who he is.

No, I'm not going to tell you because you are not ready to accept even the most basic of Biblical principles all in defense of a bogus Pre-Trib rapture doctrine. This pre-trib rapture lie has clouded the judgment of many Biblical men. It has contorted just about every prophetic message just as Peter taught that it would.

Any man who espouses the Pre-Trib Rapture theory CANNOT be trusted to teach ANY future event. It would be like trusting Hillary to tell us the truth in the future. I know these words sting and are hurtful. I don't mean to hurt or offend but because I have believed as you believe, I know exactly why you think the way you do. This is how I know you are wrong and where you are going wrong. This is why I show you little obvious things and still you cannot understand.

You see most post tribbers were once pre-tribbers. We come from a place of blindness in prophesy to clarity. You have never understood, or even bothered to try, why we think the way we do. Without even realizing it, you pre-tribbers have twisted so much of the Bible, the prophetic parts, to fit your one false doctrine. So far nothing I have showed you is ringing a bell in your head which troubles me. I am not troubled worried about your salvation.

I am worried that the doctrine you so proudly teach to the world, this "fly away" nonsense is the thing that will get many to scoff in the last days. Eventually events will unfold in the world that you cannot ignore. Once the Wailing Wall is defiled, once the Abomination of Desolation is set up there, once Israel is surrounded by her enemies, once the Man of Sin declares to be God. Once these things happen, not even you will be able to hold to your pre-trib doctrine. You will be forced to admit your error. On that day, you will think of me.

But at this point it will be too late for you to teach anyone anymore about Christ returning. This is when this verse will kick in. The scoffers are bad people, they are not Post Tribbers.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

[SUP]4 [/SUP]And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.


They don't know that the Day of the Lord is imminent and that they are about to be "swept away" or "taken" as you wrongly apply the term to yourself.

The beast out of the sea whom Satan will give his throne, power and great authority to, as recorded in Rev.13:1-2, is presently dead and in the Abyss, according to Rev.17:8 and 11! Your post is nothing but allegorical guesswork, without a prayer of Scriptural support!


Quasar92

 

[PlainWord]

What you post reveals you were never given the gift of prophecy, Nor have you ever had any formal training in eschatology. But rather, you propagate material that makes a charade out of the prophetic Scriptures. Who do you think gave us the Bible you have in your home to read? Human men! Beginning with the authors! That they were inspired y the Holy Spirit, is no excuse to denograte those human beings who teach the Bible at seminaries and Bible Colleges, as you do. You are in serious need for a change of attitude!


Quasar92

Spoken like a true Pharisee. (I said "like", I didn't say you were one, before someone freaks out). All of your training and you haven't a clue what the below means, do you?

[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;

[SUP]11 [/SUP]And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

 

[Quasar92]

Spoken like a true Pharisee. (I said "like", I didn't say you were one, before someone freaks out). All of your training and you haven't a clue what the below means, do you?

[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;

[SUP]11 [/SUP]And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

And your point is precisely what?


Quasar92

 

[PlainWord]

The beast out of the sea whom Satan will give his throne, power and great authority to, as recorded in Rev.13:1-2, is presently dead and in the Abyss, according to Rev.17:8 and 11! Your post is nothing but allegorical guesswork, without a prayer of Scriptural support!


Quasar92

I guess you forgot this verse:

[SUP]3 [/SUP]And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

We are here, right now!!! At this present time, we are 821 days into the 42 months. You cannot read scripture in a vacuum. You have to open your eyes and see what is going on in the world. We are not of the world, but we are in the world.

 

[Quasar92]

Are you saying that the 69 weeks ended in AD 70? Wrong again. You don't know your history. I vigorously urge you to cut it out now. 69 weeks ended when Messiah appeared to John the Baptist and the 70th week started immediately. In the middle of the 70th week, Messiah was cut off at week 69.5 and that ended the 70 weeks.

You are twisting the following:

1. The timing of the Lord's return (after the Tribulation of those days is taught)
2. 70 weeks of Daniel (they ended at the Cross)
3. The resurrections (there are only two, one spiritual for the saved, one physical for everyone)
4. The Great Tribulation (It is not the wrath of God, it is the attack on Israel by Muslims, their enemies)
5. The Wrath of God (It comes at the Day of the Lord and is after the Great Tribulation)
6. The seals, trumpets and bowls
7. The two witnesses
8. Timing of the Rapture (It comes after the resurrection, but just after)
9. The Falling away (it is the church losing power and faith)
10. There is no peace treaty which fools Israel
11. The King of the North will lead Islamic enemies against Israel
12. God' wrath comes in response at the Day of the Lord but not before 2/3 of Israel is cut-off.

The list goes on and on.

Your contribution is nothing but meaningless opinion, without a shred of Scripturl sipport!


Quasar92

 

[Quasar92]

I guess you forgot this verse:

[SUP]3 [/SUP]And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

We are here, right now!!! At this present time, we are 821 days into the 42 months. You cannot read scripture in a vacuum. You have to open your eyes and see what is going on in the world. We are not of the world, but we are in the world.

Which will not take place until the seven year tribulation begins. Rev.13, does not take place until AFTER the beast comes out of the abyss! Capiche! Your dealing with peschatology, not current events!


Quasar92

 

[PlainWord]

And your point is precisely what?


Quasar92

The passage I quoted goes with this passage. I am NOT saying this applies to you. This is the falling away as it is in Rev 8:10-11.

1 Timothy 4:1

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons...

We have already entered hazardous times my friend. The days are short.

 

[Quasar92]

The passage I quoted goes with this passage. I am NOT saying this applies to you. This is the falling away as it is in Rev 8:10-11.

1 Timothy 4:1


Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons...

We have already entered hazardous times my friend. The days are short.

You are a real case! The layman student trying to teach the teacher! You'e wasting my time as well as your own.


Quasar92

 

[PlainWord]

Which will not take place until the seven year tribulation begins. Rev.13, does not take place until AFTER the beast comes out of the abyss! Capiche! Your dealing with peschatology, not current events!


Quasar92

Because you do not understand Dan 9:27, which I have shown you what it really means, you have invented a 7 year Tribulation for the world. There is no teaching of a 7- year attack on Israel. Israel could never last that long given the number of troops which we are told come against her in Eze 38. Daniel really teaches that the GT of Israel lasts 45 days and Jesus said even those days would be cut short.

There are two beasts in Rev 13. The Beast of the Sea is already active. Hint: The sea are Muslims. It's leader has already been saying blasphemous things. It continues for 42 months. The beast from the earth (I assume this is the abyss?) comes afterward. Capiche!!

 

[PlainWord]

You are a real case! The layman student trying to teach the teacher! You'e wasting my time as well as your own.


Quasar92

Your haughtiness has caused your blindness. God day to you sir!!

 

[Ahwatukee]

Hello PlainWord,

This phrase: Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week...

Means this: Mat 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

This phrase: But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering

Means this: Eph 5:2 Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma. Christ became our sacrifice and offering thus taking away or ending them.

All that you have done with the scriptures above is misapply them. Regarding Dan.9:27, which is the last seven years of those seventy seven year periods that were decreed upon Israel and Jerusalem, there is one person mentioned as the "He" who performs three things:

1). "He" establishes a covenant with many for one seven

2). In the middle of the seven "He" puts a stop to the offerings and sacrifices

3). In the middle of the seven "He" sets up an abomination in the holy place.

Regarding your interpretation of #3 "and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate..." is referring to this - "So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation" for Jesus clarified Dan.9:27 as being the meaning in Mt.24:15

That being said, since there is no one mentioned specifically in Dan.9:27, we have to look back at the previous verses to see who the last person that was spoken of in order to find out who the "He" in the verse is, which is found in verse 26 as "the ruler" of the people.

This "He" will establish a seven year covenant, in the middle of that seven years "He" will put a stop to the offerings and sacrifices and in the middle of the seven years "He" will set up the abomination that causes the desolation. As I have demonstrated, there is only one person performing all three activities, therefore, if you make Jesus as the "He" in Dan.9:27, then he would have to be the One performing all three activities.

Now I said all that to say this: you might be able to get away with misapplying Jesus as fulfilling numbers 1 & 2 of the verse, but he could not possibly be the one who performs #3, which is the setting up of the abomination in the holy place. The word "bdelugma" translated "abomination" is defined as follows:

===================================

an abominable thing, an accursed thing.

946 bdélygma (from 948 /bdelýssō, derived from bdēō, "to reek with stench") – properly, what emits a foul odor and hence is disgustingly abhorrent (abominable, detestable); (figuratively) moral horror as a stench to God (like when people refuse to hear and obey His voice).

==================================

Based on the definition of the word abomination, this would be a detestable thing done against God and therefore, Jesus could not possibly be the One who sets up the abomination. Again, since there is only one person mentioned in Dan.9:27, then neither could Jesus be responsible for performing numbers 1 & 2. Furthermore, the setting up of the abomination is what causes the desolation, which is when Israel flees out into the desert where she is cared for by God during that last 3 1/2 years (Mt.24:15-21, Rev.12:6,14).

Everything I am saying is happening right before your eyes but because someone incorrectly interpreted Dan 9:27 and put it in the footnotes of your Scofield Reference Bible 100 years ago, you are missing it

Jesus correctly interpreted the KJV translation of Dan.9:27 from the following:

"and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation,"

To this:

"So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel--let the reader understand--"

So the truth of the matter is that, it is "the ruler" of the people as identified in Dan.9:26 who will:

1). Establish a seven year covenant

2). In the middle of the seven years puts a stop to the sacrifices and offerings

3). In the middle of the seven years sets up the abomination in the holy place.

* Seven 'sevens' to restore and rebuild Jerusalem

* At the end of sixty-two sevens continuing from the seven 'sevens' the Anointed One is cut of, which was Christ crucified.

At this point God put a hold on the fulfillment of that last seven years of Israel's prophecy and began to build the church, which is still in progress. Once the church has been completed, God will remove the church from the earth (John 14:1-3, 1 Thes.4:13-17, I Cor.15:51-53) and will then take up where he left off fulfilling Israel's last seven years, while at the same time pouring his wrath upon the entire earth bringing the age to its end, as demonstrated in Dan.2:31-45, Rev.19:11-21.

 

[Ahwatukee]

There are two beasts in Rev 13. The Beast of the Sea is already active. Hint: The sea are Muslims.

Once again, where in the context of Rev.13, where is it revealed that the sea is representing Muslims? All that you are doing here is applying your own meanings.

The seven years is not invented. For upon Israel seventy seven year periods were decreed upon Israel and Jerusalem, as proclaimed in Dan.9:24. Seven seven year periods and sixty-two seven year periods were fulfilled. Dan.9:27 is that last seven years, which is still unfulfilled, but will be initiated when that ruler, the antichrist establishes his seven year covenant with the many, which is still to come.

That last seven years is not an invention, but will be the fulfillment of God's decree of seventy seven year periods upon Israel/Jerusalem and God's wrath dealing with the rest of the world to bring in the end of the age and that via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Are you saying that the 69 weeks ended in AD 70? Wrong again. You don't know your history. I vigorously urge you to cut it out now. 69 weeks ended when Messiah appeared to John the Baptist and the 70th week started immediately. In the middle of the 70th week, Messiah was cut off at week 69.5 and that ended the 70 weeks.

You are twisting the following:

1. The timing of the Lord's return (after the Tribulation of those days is taught)
2. 70 weeks of Daniel (they ended at the Cross)
3. The resurrections (there are only two, one spiritual for the saved, one physical for everyone)
4. The Great Tribulation (It is not the wrath of God, it is the attack on Israel by Muslims, their enemies)
5. The Wrath of God (It comes at the Day of the Lord and is after the Great Tribulation)
6. The seals, trumpets and bowls
7. The two witnesses
8. Timing of the Rapture (It comes after the resurrection, but just after)
9. The Falling away (it is the church losing power and faith)
10. There is no peace treaty which fools Israel
11. The King of the North will lead Islamic enemies against Israel
12. God' wrath comes in response at the Day of the Lord but not before 2/3 of Israel is cut-off.

The list goes on and on.

Again, the above are all just misapplied scriptures to support your position. The seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will run parallel throughout the entire seven years, which will fulfill the wrath of God, with Jesus returning after the 7th bowl has been poured out.

 

[miknik5]

Does every believer in CHRIST JESUS believe there is a rapture?

If they do. Why?
If they don't. Why?

 

[Ahwatukee]

Does every believer in CHRIST JESUS believe there is a rapture?

If they do. Why?
If they don't. Why?

Hello miknik5,

Without a doubt there will be a catching away (rapture) of both the resurrected and those who are living because Jesus promised (John 14:1-3).

The event of His appearing and our being caught up to take us back to the Father's house is found in 1 Thes.4:13-18 and 1 Cor.15:51-53.

There are some who say that when the Lord appears, that the whole group will immediately return to the earth, which is not supported in the scripture. But John 14:1-3 demonstrates that at some time, the Lord will fulfill His promise of coming to take us back to the Father's house, that where He is we may be also.

 

[miknik5]

Hello miknik5,

There will be a catching away of both the resurrected and those who are living because Jesus promised (John 14:1-3.

The event of His appearing and our being caught up to take us back to the Father's house is found in 1 Thes.4:13-18 and 1 Cor.15:51-53.

There are some who say that when the Lord appears, that the whole group will immediately return to the earth, which is not supported in the scripture. But John 14:1-3 demonstrates that at some time, the Lord will fulfill His promise of coming to take us back to the Father's house, that where He is we may be also.

Is this event for all men and women regardless if they have believed the Gospel?
Or, is this event for men and women who have believed the Gospel and have shown before all men only "good works" which should justify them before GOD as deserving to have a part in this Rapture, prior to the time of tribulation?
Or, is this event for men and women who have believed the Gospel...

 

[miknik5]

Please forgive me for any confusion I may be causing in this interference, but I was going to post a separate thread due to a conflict I am recently having with another poster that I am trying to "sort out"...

Should we be preaching THE TRUTH of THE GOSPEL to all men that all men might be saved and have a part in this event.
Or, is it "okay" to believe that by CHRIST'S WORK on the CROSS, "all men are saved" therefore they all will have a part in this event?

 

[Ahwatukee]

Is this event for all men and women regardless if they have believed the Gospel?

No, only those who are in Christ dead and living, will be caught up. Those who will have rejected Christ will remain on the earth during the time of God's wrath, which will be carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgements.