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U
I am not sure exactly sure what you are saying, I never said God gives sickness to His children, but we do live a fallen world and we are not yet delivered from all that is in this fallen world and what that can bring to a person's life.
He did not spare His own Son, and many apostles died as martyrs and Paul suffered a thorn in the flesh......
The OP is addressing the problem in being taught that healing is for everyone and how it affected his faith, I appreciate the honesty in that.
By faith. Regardless of whether or not someone experiences healing in the natural the Lord, Jesus, took care of all sickness and disease at the cross, and through His flesh. Truth be told, eventually in the glorified bodies everyone will have a perfect body, that does not decay. So even in that respect, healing is for all (at least, one day).
Lol, its true. Its right there in the verse. I don't know how people miss it.
2 Corinthians 12:7 King James Version (KJV)
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
2 Corinthians 12:7 King James Version (KJV)
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
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It is not a cop out, it is simply the truth. I am not making excuses, I've said it before and I say it again. People are not healed because the body of Christ needs to actually believe and have faith. Even in the mustard seed kind of faith must there be an expectation of healing, knowing it is God's will. Christians aren't even there yet, many I mean. So many people think healing is based upon the present mercy of God (in that moment in time) instead of already accomplished through God's Son Jesus Christ and therefore, is available to us. So instead of asking for healing, we would be ministering (giving) it as it is already ours in Christ.
U
Sorry but this is a gross misinterpretation of scripture to say that Jesus also died and bore our sickness on the cross so that we will die of old age and never experience disease.
The context of Isaiah 53:4 indicates that spiritual healing is in view and that is why it was used again in Matthew 8
Verse 5 we are clearly told, “He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed” (verse 5). Because “transgressions” and “iniquities” set the context, spiritual healing from the misery of man's sin is in view.
Further, there are numerous verses in Scripture which substantiate the view that physical healing in mortal life is not guaranteed in the atonement and that it is not always God's will to heal. The apostle Paul couldn't heal Timothy's stomach problem
(1 Timothy 5:23)
The context of Isaiah 53:4 indicates that spiritual healing is in view and that is why it was used again in Matthew 8
Verse 5 we are clearly told, “He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed” (verse 5). Because “transgressions” and “iniquities” set the context, spiritual healing from the misery of man's sin is in view.
Further, there are numerous verses in Scripture which substantiate the view that physical healing in mortal life is not guaranteed in the atonement and that it is not always God's will to heal. The apostle Paul couldn't heal Timothy's stomach problem
(1 Timothy 5:23)
People can see their sickness with their eyes and so healing through Christ for them goes against their perceived reality. So the reason healing can be hindered is that one must have faith for the healing that is contrary to what they are seeing in the natural. Their surroundings, or circumstances go completely contrary to what they are believing for. So, they must choose God's word over their circumstance. They must believe He is faithful and true. He will reward them.
Matthew 8:17 reveals that Isaiah 53:4 is in reference to physical healing. Yes the context speaks of spiritual healing, but that specific verse within Isaiah 53 is in reference to the physical healing provided by Jesus.
Matthew 8:16-17 King James Version (KJV)
16 When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:
17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.
[h=1]Isaiah 53:4King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT="]4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.[/FONT]
Matthew 8:16-17 King James Version (KJV)
16 When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:
17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.
[h=1]Isaiah 53:4King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT="]4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.[/FONT]
that IS a cop out. You are saying that men have faith to be eternally saved but not to be healed. It would suggest to me that they are not therefore eternally save, for their faith is not right.
To say that healing is there to be claimed as already having taken place is against the teaching of the Gospels. It is a future prospect not a present one, of which His healing was a foretaste.
As you can minster healing minister it to me and to my wife. And if you can't, shut up because you are showing your own falsehood,
To say that healing is there to be claimed as already having taken place is against the teaching of the Gospels. It is a future prospect not a present one, of which His healing was a foretaste.
As you can minster healing minister it to me and to my wife. And if you can't, shut up because you are showing your own falsehood,
L
Hi - I came from a Charismatic background and I can say truthfully there are many flaws in the what I experienced of Charismatic theology mostly because of scriptures taken out of context.
Hagin - is a fraud - as are all of the word of faith movement. If you went to a false teacher who doesn't know God and then asked this fraud to "pray" to God for you. Of course God won't endorse such a man by moving on his behalf. These hucksters never tell you to get medical verification of their laying on of hands - just in case they get exposed as the frauds they in fact are.
No one has the gift of healing in the way the Apostles had BUT God does heal on a case by case basis of that I am sure.
I also know that God can decide to heal or not to heal according to his divine understanding and will.
The whole if you step out in "faith" - you will definitely receive healing is not Biblical. It is God's prerogative and prayer from a false teacher will always be rejected.
Paul had a thorn in the flesh which God didn't fix - what exactly the thorn in the flesh was is not clear. God simply stated that His grace was sufficient.
There is also a lot of pressure on a person to say that they have been healed whether or not it has happened because it is implied that if you didn't get healed you are somehow faithless. I know because I have seen this pressure tactic first hand.
Having said all this I know of two times God has miraculously healed. There is always a reason/purpose for the healing and the healing always imparts understanding about the character or nature of God. Once for me - a month after I got saved. The understanding I received was what unmerited forgiveness and unconditional love meant in practice. My ailment was because of my sinful lifestyle and a just punishment. My healing was medically verified shortly after the healing. My sinful drunkenness left my body in toxic shock - which manifested itself as severe food allergies and gastric problems, rashes, swelling and other symptoms.
On the other hand my dog suffered a completely crushed and shattered foreleg when she was attacked by a man with a steel bar and God healed her without any medical intervention. Again the lesson was to show me that God was merciful, kind and completely worthy of our fullest trust in Him - whatever situation I had in my life - God was actively involved and available.
There have been times when I have prayed alone and corporately and seen God answer.
There have been times I have prayed alone or corporately and not received what I asked for.
Things that help with prayer getting answered.
Tell God that you love Him and are grateful for your Salvation - whatever else happens you trust Him with your life and soul.
Understand that what you are asking for is granted out of God's unmerited mercy and providence. It is not because you are entitled to it.
Spend quality time in prayer and fellowship with God - don't just start prayer when a crisis comes along or God will use crisis after to spend time more time with you
An attitude of gratitude based on "you didn't deserve Salvation" but you were given it freely - You have been rescued from eternal torment in Hell and that alone is more than enough! Anything God does beyond salvation to you or gives you is for your betterment - even if you don't understand it or the circumstances seem to indicate the opposite by your understanding.
Be truthful with God, confess and forsake hidden sin. God while you are praying will always let you know what sin needs repenting with that soft heart felt voice.
Ask in a way that lets God know what you would like but submit to whatever God decides with humble gratitude.
Always assume that God has a better way of answering you prayer than you could think of and ask Him to intervene with what He thinks is the best way to resolve the situation. Give God room to work His will and show His Majesty.
If you don't get what you want DO NOT BE CHILDISH and threaten to walk away from Him - this is a sure sign that you did not know Him to begin with.
God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble.
I hope what follows helps you determine for yourself what scriptures are used rightly or not by Charismatics.
Also most of Charismatic error in theology is because they take scripture out of context.
Context being who is God talking about or too (Jews, Christian's, Sinners or everyone). Charismatics like to claim a lot of the promises God made exclusively to the Jews for themselves.
The Bible finishes talking about a subject, application or to a particular class of people before it changes to another subject, application or class of people. It doesn't jump back and forth mixing subjects applications or the people it talking to or about - so every verse has the same subject, application and is for a particular class of people until a new context is given and it doesn't jump back and forth.
This is the simplest way to determine exactly whether or not a scripture is being used correctly.
Hagin - is a fraud - as are all of the word of faith movement. If you went to a false teacher who doesn't know God and then asked this fraud to "pray" to God for you. Of course God won't endorse such a man by moving on his behalf. These hucksters never tell you to get medical verification of their laying on of hands - just in case they get exposed as the frauds they in fact are.
No one has the gift of healing in the way the Apostles had BUT God does heal on a case by case basis of that I am sure.
I also know that God can decide to heal or not to heal according to his divine understanding and will.
The whole if you step out in "faith" - you will definitely receive healing is not Biblical. It is God's prerogative and prayer from a false teacher will always be rejected.
Paul had a thorn in the flesh which God didn't fix - what exactly the thorn in the flesh was is not clear. God simply stated that His grace was sufficient.
There is also a lot of pressure on a person to say that they have been healed whether or not it has happened because it is implied that if you didn't get healed you are somehow faithless. I know because I have seen this pressure tactic first hand.
Having said all this I know of two times God has miraculously healed. There is always a reason/purpose for the healing and the healing always imparts understanding about the character or nature of God. Once for me - a month after I got saved. The understanding I received was what unmerited forgiveness and unconditional love meant in practice. My ailment was because of my sinful lifestyle and a just punishment. My healing was medically verified shortly after the healing. My sinful drunkenness left my body in toxic shock - which manifested itself as severe food allergies and gastric problems, rashes, swelling and other symptoms.
On the other hand my dog suffered a completely crushed and shattered foreleg when she was attacked by a man with a steel bar and God healed her without any medical intervention. Again the lesson was to show me that God was merciful, kind and completely worthy of our fullest trust in Him - whatever situation I had in my life - God was actively involved and available.
There have been times when I have prayed alone and corporately and seen God answer.
There have been times I have prayed alone or corporately and not received what I asked for.
Things that help with prayer getting answered.
Tell God that you love Him and are grateful for your Salvation - whatever else happens you trust Him with your life and soul.
Understand that what you are asking for is granted out of God's unmerited mercy and providence. It is not because you are entitled to it.
Spend quality time in prayer and fellowship with God - don't just start prayer when a crisis comes along or God will use crisis after to spend time more time with you
An attitude of gratitude based on "you didn't deserve Salvation" but you were given it freely - You have been rescued from eternal torment in Hell and that alone is more than enough! Anything God does beyond salvation to you or gives you is for your betterment - even if you don't understand it or the circumstances seem to indicate the opposite by your understanding.
Be truthful with God, confess and forsake hidden sin. God while you are praying will always let you know what sin needs repenting with that soft heart felt voice.
Ask in a way that lets God know what you would like but submit to whatever God decides with humble gratitude.
Always assume that God has a better way of answering you prayer than you could think of and ask Him to intervene with what He thinks is the best way to resolve the situation. Give God room to work His will and show His Majesty.
If you don't get what you want DO NOT BE CHILDISH and threaten to walk away from Him - this is a sure sign that you did not know Him to begin with.
God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble.
I hope what follows helps you determine for yourself what scriptures are used rightly or not by Charismatics.
Also most of Charismatic error in theology is because they take scripture out of context.
Context being who is God talking about or too (Jews, Christian's, Sinners or everyone). Charismatics like to claim a lot of the promises God made exclusively to the Jews for themselves.
The Bible finishes talking about a subject, application or to a particular class of people before it changes to another subject, application or class of people. It doesn't jump back and forth mixing subjects applications or the people it talking to or about - so every verse has the same subject, application and is for a particular class of people until a new context is given and it doesn't jump back and forth.
This is the simplest way to determine exactly whether or not a scripture is being used correctly.
I too have seen God heal and there are times when He has not healed
I have seen some answers to prayer that to this day create the knowledge of God in my heart
the very worst thing you can do, IMO, is blame the person if they are not healed
perhaps the second worse thing you can do, is insist you are healed when you are not and refuse all your cancer treatment and wither away on your hospital bed with your husband and three children standing by and you uttering with your last breath that God is healing you and if you take treatment, God will punish you for your lack of faith
that actually happened...a pastor's wife. I was there...it's a true story...I said she should receive treatment, her husband wanted her to...but she refused. He was remarried within a year...but he suffered plenty.
WE, do not MAKE God do ANYTHING