Charismatic - Losing Faith (Healing)

[UnderGrace]

The question is did Jesus save us from disease, as well as save us from eternal death, so that I should never have disease be part of my body as some like to teach?

Does God promise anywhere to heal the sick each time?

No I do not think God is a big bully, but I do know I live a a fallen world where pollution, super-bugs, toxins, disease, mold, accidents, shall I go on..... and general pain and suffering abound.

God also desires all to be saved, but not all are.

Why question what Scripture teaches with our experiences? Some people think God is a big bully because of their experiences. But Scripture shows Him different. Scripture teaches the prayer of faith will save the sick. I believe it. Even if my experiences don't always line up. Just like I believe I am saved even if my experiences don't line up. And God is good. And He has set us free from sin. Even if our experiences don't line up. I believe His truth and the more I let that seed of faith stay planted the more I see His truths manifest in my life.

 

[BenFTW]

Ben, all I can say is I am shocked at this.

We are called to serve not harness belief and energy!

Perhaps you should spend some time reading about the voice of the martyrs.

Here is the link, https://www.persecution.com/

VVhere did you get energy from? I simply emphasized belief, faith, and expectation in God's word. VVhen I said harness it, I meant to understand the applicability of our beliefs and how they do, in fact, dictate our experience. VVhy do you suppose the Lord would have you renew your mind? All action is preceded by thought.

I am not sure what has shocked you, when all I have done is elaborate on biblical truths.

 

[Cee]

If you would like I will show you Scripture that Jesus did save us from sickness and sin on the cross.

But remember how often we debated alongside each other about us being dead to sin? And people arguing that if we were dead why do people sin? So they must be sinners? Of course we know the issue is they don't believe Scripture so they don't see the full fruit of what Jesus paid for. Unfortunately, healing is even less accepted than the truth we are a new creation in Christ, dead to sin and alive to God, but the more people accept the victory of Christ over sin and sickness the more the world will witness His glory in all forms and needs.

The question is did Jesus save us from disease, as well as save us from eternal death, so that I should never have disease be part of my body as some like to teach?

Does God promise anywhere to heal the sick each time?

No I do not think God is a big bully, but I do know I live a a fallen world where pollution, super-bugs, toxins, disease, mold, accidents, shall I go on..... and general pain and suffering abound.

 

[BenFTW]

The question is did Jesus save us from disease, as well as save us from eternal death, so that I should never have disease be part of my body as some like to teach?

Does God promise anywhere to heal the sick each time?

No I do not think God is a big bully, but I do know I live a a fallen world where pollution, super-bugs, toxins, disease, mold, accidents, shall I go on..... and general pain and suffering abound.

The question is, do you believe the Lord can protect you from all those things? VVhat does your faith and expectation say on the matter? VVhat does your heart say? Your mouth? Do you believe the Lord is faithful to protect His children? Is He faithful to His covenant? You see, God's word says His people perish due to a lack of knowledge, and quite often the ignorance of such knowledge is His faithfulness to fulfill His word. They lack belief and faith, or simply have reasoned God's truth to be exaggerated because they do not experience it. Instead of considering where there might be doubt within, they'd rather make a doctrine that comforts them instead of holding God to His word in faith.

His promise to heal the sick is through Christ. Read Isaiah 53:4 and Matthew 8:17.

 

[UnderGrace]

VVhere did you get energy from? I simply emphasized belief, faith, and expectation in God's word. VVhen I said harness it, I meant to understand the applicability of our beliefs and how they do, in fact, dictate our experience. VVhy do you suppose the Lord would have you renew your mind? All action is preceded by thought.

I am not sure what has shocked you, when all I have done is elaborate on biblical truths.

Yup there is no word energy! Oops Sorry. Still shocked though.

I renew my mind in Him to be conformed to His image, so yes of course belief and faith are important.
I am not on this earth to experience signs and wonders I am here to serve God and help fulfill the great commission, that He grants me good health is a blessing not an expectation.

 

[UnderGrace]

If you would like I will show you Scripture that Jesus did save us from sickness and sin on the cross.

But remember how often we debated alongside each other about us being dead to sin? And people arguing that if we were dead why do people sin? So they must be sinners? Of course we know the issue is they don't believe Scripture so they don't see the full fruit of what Jesus paid for. Unfortunately, healing is even less accepted than the truth we are a new creation in Christ, dead to sin and alive to God, but the more people accept the victory of Christ over sin and sickness the more the world will witness His glory in all forms and needs.

Well it is interesting notion, however, I cannot yet lump sin with disease since I know that the word disease is often used as a metaphor for sin in scripture.

Dead to sin is how God views us because of our position in Christ. We are a new creation from God's view. However on this earth we still have sin, the flesh and disease.

But Cee, I will search the scripture to look more carefully (once again) at the saved from sickness piece since it is the theology of Prince and Hagin and others therefore I proceed with caution.

 

[Sheepman]

If you would like I will show you Scripture that Jesus did save us from sickness and sin on the cross.

But remember how often we debated alongside each other about us being dead to sin? And people arguing that if we were dead why do people sin? So they must be sinners? Of course we know the issue is they don't believe Scripture so they don't see the full fruit of what Jesus paid for. Unfortunately, healing is even less accepted than the truth we are a new creation in Christ, dead to sin and alive to God, but the more people accept the victory of Christ over sin and sickness the more the world will witness His glory in all forms and needs.

For the sick

Healing of the body do not always come fast.
Healing is thriving in fellowship and Godly churches.

For everybody out there who are sick and feel you dont have enough faith, that get punched by the devil over it. Why do you think the book of Job is so huge.

Let it go. God Will heal you. If not now you have a whole new body awaiting for you to get inside.

This is for the lonely.
Healing is biblically speaking a part of the christian fellowship.

For churches not experiencing healing. Thats a problem. Then we have to ask ourselves why.

To smile on the inside is to not to burn out.
Dont ever think you have to smile all the time to be a Good christian.
God sees the heart. Not the outward.

Peace unto all you who are sick and poor and have no spirit. Yours is the kingdom.
He will come to everyone who seeks him in many diffrent ways. But do not ever try to force the Spirit.
Thats of the flesh.

Peace brothers and sisters. Realax in Jesus. He is antistress.

Victory in weakness.

 

[Cee]

The Kingdom of God manifest in triune parts. The Kingdom of God is where the Will of God is fully manifested. First we align with His Will and then THROUGH us. This is the effect of joyful obedience. Armed with this picture let's look at how the Kingdom manifests through the triune being.

Spirit - Salvation. Our spirit and His Spirit are united together. His Kingdom is fully manifested here at conversion.

Soul - Deliverance. As our mind is renewed His Kingdom manifests here. We begin to think His thoughts, this is the mind of Christ. And Scripture teaches us that renewing of the mind proves the perfect will of God.

Body - Healing. This is not as common because the Kingdom, remember obedience to His Will, first renews our soul, that's why people who believe they are healed begin to see it. Remember Scripture says the promises are YES in Christ.

Peter tells us to partake our operate with the divine nature is through the great and precious promises.

So what are the promises of God?

We have been redeemed from the curse of the law. The law is where we find mention of sickness.

Look in Isaiah 53... He WAS bruised, this speaks as if it already happened before it happened. Remember the blood of bulls and goats, was a sign pointing to Him. Every healing in the OT and promises of healing was because of Him. Now we exist in HIM.

Anyways, we see this idea in Scripture Peter walked in the Kingdom to the degree people around him were healed. Paul's body sweat carried the power of God that when placed on people demons and sickness would go. Jesus was touched and the power of God went through the woman to heal her.

I fully realize that this stance isn't common, but I truly believe we are called to disciple the world. And the same Spirit of God will use both our words and His works, just as He did with Jesus. Who is our example of serving God and people.

 

[popeye]

Obviously, you place salvation (from hell, work of the cross) and not having disease (physical ailments) as also a supposed work of the cross, as equal and part of what Jesus accomplished on the cross.

So back it up with scripture?

The lamb slain at Passover represented the lamb of God on the cross.

Before you get all puffed up with " knowledge" ,roll eyes,you better get a handle on salvation.

Salvation is not Jesus hanging on a cross.

Salvation is what happened AFTER THE SACRIFICE.

The blood sprinkled on the mercy seat.

You see the cross as the complete work of salvation.

Gal 3 might help you out of your partial gospel.

My ANALOGY which has you all tied in knots,is nothing more than taking YOUR OMISSIONS AND PERVERSIONS,and inserting another subject matter into YOUR EQUATION...NOT MINE.

GO FIGURE.

 

[notuptome]

The Kingdom of God manifest in triune parts. The Kingdom of God is where the Will of God is fully manifested. First we align with His Will and then THROUGH us. This is the effect of joyful obedience. Armed with this picture let's look at how the Kingdom manifests through the triune being.

Spirit - Salvation. Our spirit and His Spirit are united together. His Kingdom is fully manifested here at conversion.

Soul - Deliverance. As our mind is renewed His Kingdom manifests here. We begin to think His thoughts, this is the mind of Christ. And Scripture teaches us that renewing of the mind proves the perfect will of God.

Body - Healing. This is not as common because the Kingdom, remember obedience to His Will, first renews our soul, that's why people who believe they are healed begin to see it. Remember Scripture says the promises are YES in Christ.

Peter tells us to partake our operate with the divine nature is through the great and precious promises.

So what are the promises of God?

We have been redeemed from the curse of the law. The law is where we find mention of sickness.

Look in Isaiah 53... He WAS bruised, this speaks as if it already happened before it happened. Remember the blood of bulls and goats, was a sign pointing to Him. Every healing in the OT and promises of healing was because of Him. Now we exist in HIM.

Anyways, we see this idea in Scripture Peter walked in the Kingdom to the degree people around him were healed. Paul's body sweat carried the power of God that when placed on people demons and sickness would go. Jesus was touched and the power of God went through the woman to heal her.

I fully realize that this stance isn't common, but I truly believe we are called to disciple the world. And the same Spirit of God will use both our words and His works, just as He did with Jesus. Who is our example of serving God and people.

You do know the kingdom of God is in the future?

Healing in the kingdom is not the subject being discussed in this thread.

Believers are in this world but not of this world. Ours is a hope of the future kingdom in which all sin is removed and only the righteousness of God is seen.

New age mysticism confuses and creates expectations that are not biblical. In this world believers and unbelievers suffer alike. Unbelievers suffer as those with no hope while believers suffer with the knowledge that in Christ is peace that passes understanding.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[popeye]

One of the purposes of trying to teach members here on the words Jesus spoke on the cross " it is finished" was to show you guys that the cross was not the end or all encompassing work of salvation.

But no,the entirety of members here came back at me with "knowledge". Correcting,slapping and clawing the word into their one dimensional Baptist mish mash.

This same partial gospel melds into the healing provision.

It ain't whether God heals,they say,it is does he heal all the time. That's what they say.

This stunting has a root. Their partial gospel has become a mental gospel.

That's why,to them,Jesus is still on a cross,and Moses snake on a pole represented nothing at all,just a random serpent on a random pole. .. Kinda like the hit and miss healing dynamic

 

[popeye]

Yup there is no word energy! Oops Sorry. Still shocked though.

I renew my mind in Him to be conformed to His image, so yes of course belief and faith are important.
I am not on this earth to experience signs and wonders I am here to serve God and help fulfill the great commission, that He grants me good health is a blessing not an expectation.

Wow,it's like you place yourself above God.

He can do a sign or wonder.

But at YOUR DISCRETION,right?

 

[popeye]

The question is did Jesus save us from disease, as well as save us from eternal death, so that I should never have disease be part of my body as some like to teach?

Does God promise anywhere to heal the sick each time?

No I do not think God is a big bully, but I do know I live a a fallen world where pollution, super-bugs, toxins, disease, mold, accidents, shall I go on..... and general pain and suffering abound.

Amazing. Even after showing you, through analogy,you come right back.

AGAIN,INSERT SALVATION IN PLACE OF HEALING,AND YOUR DEAL FALLS APART.

 

[Willie-T]

I feel kind of sad for people who think The Kingdom of God is somewhere in the future after they are dead. I guess they never experience any of it here and now.

The Kingdom of God is both here, and not yet fully here. You can see it all around you, every day.... if you but look.

 

[popeye]

Does God save everytime?

Are all saved?

Cue Baptist workbook.

Then salvation is not only subjective,but random,and we all know God gets glory out of those suffering with no salvation.

God is just showing them he can get glory from their lost condition.

Wow,just wow

 

[popeye]

I feel kind of sad for people who think The Kingdom of God is somewhere in the future after they are dead. I guess they never experience any of it here and now.

The Kingdom of God is both here, and not yet fully here. You can see it all around you, every day.... if you but look.

They are taught that. They bought into it and defend it.

It is,in fact,disenfranchisement.

But worse,it reverses Gods character.

"if you,being evil,know how to give good gifts to your children,how much more will your heavenly father give ....."

They basically say that they,want their own children sick for a testimony to what great parents they are.

 

[Willie-T]

I don't know how anyone can look at some of the posters here, and not see the Kingdom of God in action. (I hope this doesn't embarrass you, Lita, but I see the Kingdom in almost all your posts.)

 

[popeye]

What in the world is PS 91?

A cruel joke?

JAMES," ...and the prayer of faith will heal the sick..."

Another joke?

 

[Cee]

Jesus: the Kingdom of God is upon you. Within you. All around you. Pray for the Will of God to be here on Earth as it is in Heaven.

Paul: Kingdom is in Holy Spirit. We do not preach a gospel in word, but power.

The Kingdom of God is pouring out on ALL flesh - Acts 2

 

[UnderGrace]

Amazing. Even after showing you, through analogy,you come right back.

AGAIN,INSERT SALVATION IN PLACE OF HEALING,AND YOUR DEAL FALLS APART.

????? OKay