You Are A New Creation!

[PeterJens]

I should say, while I'm at it, that everyone does sin and there is a huge difference between living in sin and committing sin

Everyone does sin - statement of faith.
Living in sin and commiting sin different.

Now I know what I mean by these phrases, what do you mean?
A lot can be hidden behind generic statements.

Everyone has sinned at some point in their lives.
In Christ we are set free from sin and can walk righteously. Do you believe this?

Living in sin is continuing to live as if the sin you have commited does not exist
and is not resolved.

Commiting sin is the point of rebellion, the break with fellowship. If unresolved
leads to loss of faith and becoming a non-believer and lost.

This is my position what is yours?

 

[LaurenTM]

Everyone does sin - statement of faith.
Living in sin and commiting sin different.

Now I know what I mean by these phrases, what do you mean?
A lot can be hidden behind generic statements.

Everyone has sinned at some point in their lives.
In Christ we are set free for sin and can walk righteously. Do you believe this?

Living in sin is continuing to live as if the sin you have commited does not exist
and is not resolved.

Commiting sin is the point of rebellion, the break with fellowship. If unresolved
leads to loss of faith and becoming a non-believer and lost.

This is my position what is yours?

my position is in Christ

I'm not a liar by nature, never have been, which is not to say I have never lied

however, I am by nature something of a rebel and have not accepted things that many others do accept

so, I agree with God when I sin and lie (if I do cause I really try hard not to) and ask forgiveness

however, my rebellious nature will really surface now and then and nobody likes it when that happens; not even me

so, I feel far different when that happens and I realize I have to put that to death and only Christ can help me with that because it is a matter of salvation

if I continue to rebel, I disagree that what God says about it all is true, so that exposes something that needs the boot

now this is probably a poor explanation, but all sin is not going to break relationship and I take good inventory but if I continue to allow my own ideas to override what God says, then I will gradually have a problem in my thinking

as someone once said, God does not move from His position; if we find ourselves in another place, then it is us who have moved

I agree we must resolve what is between us and God and this leads also to better horizontal relationships

yes, I do believe we can walk righteously before God as He makes us righteous in His Son. as we continue, we become more like Him but of course we must continue, or, as He said, we are not worthy of His calling

thankfully, God draws us by His Spirit to His side so you see, all that is good comes from our Father in heaven

 

[PeterJens]

Propoganda - It is always possible to hide a basic heresy amongst biblical
words.

People who have been christians for years find a distortion they can create
and the same words exist, but the pain is removed. It is like a light being
turned on. It does not mean it is right, just the emotional turmoil is resolved.

If you make Christ harmless, change unnecessary, everything is just peace,
then ofcourse it all looks rosy. A few simple changes, and the release is like
lightening, still a believer but now no problems. Wow, except it is heresy.

And for someone like me, totally empty because I want resolution, I want
truth I want holiness, I want reality at any cost. And this compromise is
sin has the victory, death is not overcome and it is all a farce.

 

[LaurenTM]

well, I don't know if you will respond to my post wherein I answered you (above this one), but I have things I have to do and just took a rest and got on her for awhile

so, I'm not ignoring you and will answer when I come back if you do respond

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

ok
so are you saying you are hypergrace?
your posts are kind of confusing. you do not seem to actually take note of what people say, you just impose something over what they say
all this talk of hypergrace and I seem to notice the only person who keeps talking about it is you
why do you do this?
I don't think anyone actually gets anything out of your posts and you just seem to do your best to put threads off track like you did with this one
that is not the mark of a person who respects others nor is very Christian. It's actually immature, childish and a person really starts to wonder what your motive is
Perhaps you have a personal grudge going? Maybe you should seek the Lord on this

No, I do not follow hyper grace doctrine, which IMO is a neo-gnostic perversion of GOD's grace. The OP is known to promote this doctrine. The new creation is probably the most key element of this teaching, so any discussion of it within this context is perfectly appropriate and relevant.

 

[Cee]

Hyper grace is what people who don't believe we are new creations call us. They appear to think we say it's perfectly okay to sin, when my position is God transforms our heart to no longer desire it. And if we do sin, I believe we must renewed to the goodness and kindness of God that brings us to repentance.

I have stated this position of our positional and effectual righteousness in Christ. To say we are not new creations in Christ is to pretty much ignore 2/3 of the New Testament.

C.

 

[Grace777x70]

Hyper grace is what people who don't believe we are new creations call us. They appear to think we say it's perfectly okay to sin, when my position is God transforms our heart to no longer desire it. And if we do sin, I believe we must renewed to the goodness and kindness of God that brings us to repentance.

I have stated this position of our positional and effectual righteousness in Christ. To say we are not new creations in Christ is to pretty much ignore 2/3 of the New Testament.

C.

Amen...and we all have said this over 100x times and yet some people ( just 2 actually ) still say the exact opposite of what believers in the grace of Christ actually believe.

If we are not new creations in Christ - we have no part in Christ and we are just trying to be a good moral person thinking we are doing "deeds of righteousness".

To have to even be defending that we are new creations in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness like Paul says in Eph.4:23 - is just spiritual ignorance or an outright attack from the enemy to make us Christians to try to rely on our own human self-effort instead of on Christ alone for our life.

This causes us to fall from grace as Paul talked about in Galatians.

 

[PeterJens]

my position is in Christ
thankfully, God draws us by His Spirit to His side so you see, all that is good comes from our Father in heaven

Sister - It sounds like we agree. Some do not like the idea of sinful action, the need to repent
confess and sort it out. What interested me was why I did not use words like Holy, blameless,
righteous. I got a list of behaviour patterns that are associated with disfunctional anti-social
behaviour and to see how many people responded. A lot did.

So what I took for granted was not what others knew or experienced. But until you start talking
about it you never know. How do you know you are loved, when you have never been loved
except by Jesus. Then I found people who condemn purity and righeousness as if it is evil.

Talk about love and you are spiritually anti spiritual gifts and against knowing God and into
legalism. Now this group are consistent, and it turns out created a failure, sin accepting
theology, which avoids reality of the heart, but pushes worldly success and aspirations.

Me and HRFTD have been having similar discussions over the last 7 months with this
group and discovered how this view has permeated much of the charismatic church,
HillSong, Bethel, Vineyard which most here oppose us when we get into discussions on
just about anything. So we challenge them on their use of language and what they
mean by it and what we mean.

And it is becoming clearer, same language, major differences.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Hyper grace is what people who don't believe we are new creations call us. They appear to think we say it's perfectly okay to sin, when my position is God transforms our heart to no longer desire it. And if we do sin, I believe we must renewed to the goodness and kindness of God that brings us to repentance.

I have stated this position of our positional and effectual righteousness in Christ. To say we are not new creations in Christ is to pretty much ignore 2/3 of the New Testament.C.

It would be more accurate to say that there are those who reject hyper grace's version of the new creation.

 

[Cee]

Oh well excellent.

So please explain your definition of new creation using Scripture.

Also please explain what "in Christ" means.

Now we can actually discuss the ideas, since I now know your contention.

C.

It would be more accurate to say that there are those who reject hyper grace's version of the new creation.

 

[Cee]

Just so you know, I don't have a problem with love or holiness. In fact, I probably talk about these concepts more than you do.

But do you believe you are saved by your works? If so how many are enough?

My view is we are saved by Christ work.
And as Jesus said those who have been forgiven much love much. And we love Him because He loved us first.

What is your view of Salvation?
And what empowers us to do what Israel couldn't in the Old Testament?

Also please use Scripture. Then we can actually discuss Scripture ideas.

C.

Sister - It sounds like we agree. Some do not like the idea of sinful action, the need to repent
confess and sort it out. What interested me was why I did not use words like Holy, blameless,
righteous. I got a list of behaviour patterns that are associated with disfunctional anti-social
behaviour and to see how many people responded. A lot did.

So what I took for granted was not what others knew or experienced. But until you start talking
about it you never know. How do you know you are loved, when you have never been loved
except by Jesus. Then I found people who condemn purity and righeousness as if it is evil.

Talk about love and you are spiritually anti spiritual gifts and against knowing God and into
legalism. Now this group are consistent, and it turns out created a failure, sin accepting
theology, which avoids reality of the heart, but pushes worldly success and aspirations.

Me and HRFTD have been having similar discussions over the last 7 months with this
group and discovered how this view has permeated much of the charismatic church,
HillSong, Bethel, Vineyard which most here oppose us when we get into discussions on
just about anything. So we challenge them on their use of language and what they
mean by it and what we mean.

And it is becoming clearer, same language, major differences.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Oh well excellent.
So please explain your definition of new creation using Scripture.
Also please explain what "in Christ" means.
Now we can actually discuss the ideas, since I now know your contention.C.

The new birth (creation). Man is a unity of body, soul/mind and spirit.

• Was our body made new? No.
• Was our mind made new? No.
• Was our soul made new? No.
• Was our spirit made new? Yes.

And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: Ezekiel 11:19

But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. Jeremiah 31:33​

So does this mean that we are entirely new creations? No. It means that we have a new creation within us, ie, a new heart, from which the flesh (corrupted nature) has been circumcised and is now a dwelling place of GOD's spirit.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Translation for those who don't understand hypergracespeak:

The righteous in Christ live by faith in what He has done - meaning the new creation - and are "believers" in Him - meaning that they are aware of their identity as being mystically co-joined with him.​

Are you saying you haven't been spiritually joined with Christ??

 

[FreeNChrist]

The new birth (creation). Man is a unity of body, soul/mind and spirit.

• Was our body made new? No.
• Was our mind made new? No.
• Was our soul made new? No.
• Was our spirit made new? Yes.

And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: Ezekiel 11:19

But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. Jeremiah 31:33​

So does this mean that we are entirely new creations? No. It means that we have a new creation within us, ie, a new heart, from which the flesh (corrupted nature) has been circumcised and is now a dwelling place of GOD's spirit.

"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!" 2 Corinthians 5:17

"May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Thessalonians 5:23

 

[PeterJens]

And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: Ezekiel 11:19​

A new spirit could be a new attitude or desire in your heart. A stony heart is one that does not react, that just ignores what is going on, but a heart of flesh can be wounded, has empathy, will interact.

Now this change does not have to be like a new entity becoming part of the believer but a change within, a real new birth.

​

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

A new spirit could be a new attitude or desire in your heart. A stony heart is one that does not react, that just ignores what is going on, but a heart of flesh can be wounded, has empathy, will interact.

Now this change does not have to be like a new entity becoming part of the believer but a change within, a real new birth.

[/INDENT]

The new spirit is real. We have become temples of the living GOD, wherein he dwells through his spirit. His spirit makes our spirit alive.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!" 2 Corinthians 5:17

"May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Thessalonians 5:23

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new heart has come: The old stoney heart has gone, the new heart of flesh is here.

May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless from the pollution of sin at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ

 

[FreeNChrist]

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new heart has come: The old stoney heart has gone, the new heart of flesh is here.

May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless from the pollution of sin at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ

You're still using old Adolph’s heretical CLV “bible” I see. No wonder you are so confused.

 

[Grace777x70]

Paul says that if anyone "be in Christ they are a new creation - not that they have a new creation. Paul is the saying the "anyone" is a new creation in Christ.

The real person now that the old man has died on the cross with Jesus is the new spirit that rose from the grave with Jesus in His resurrection. The inner man of the heart created in righteousness and holiness.

Creature and creation are the same word in Greek. It means a new creation that is of God's doing.

Notice it says to "behold" which means - to perceive, to look,

2 Corinthians 5:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

[SUP]18 [/SUP] Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,

Have come = is in the perfect tense which is a past event that is completed and it's effects are in the present happening continuously.

Saints - We have a great and awesome salvation in Crist our Lord. Let's not deny Him. Let's believe in what God has done for us in Christ. Let's be believers in Him and what He has done for us.

 

[Grace777x70]

The new spirit is real. We have become temples of the living GOD, wherein he dwells through his spirit. His spirit makes our spirit alive.

Amen...well said...I gave you a rep for that because that is important for all believers to know the truth of this reality that is in us because we are in Christ.