You Are A New Creation!
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Looks like it is time for "scripture" again in the area of righteousness. Why do people fight so much against the work of Christ and instead live by their own humanistic thoughts? Why don't we believe in Christ? Why are we continually denying Him?
I can give you guys what the scriptures say about righteousness and believers that are "in Christ" now. Everyone can believe what they want too.
The understanding of the new creation in Christ and the new identity of the believer is paramount to living the true Christian life.
Here it says our spirit ( the inner person that is a new creation in Christ ) is alive because of righteousness that it is it.
Romans 8:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin,yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
Here righteousness is a gift - you don't earn it.
Romans 5:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
We have grace reigning in our lives because of righteousness in us.
Romans 5:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21[/SUP] That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Here righteousness comes by faith.
Romans 9:30 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
Here when we believe - we are righteousness.
Romans 10:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
We are in the kingdom of God.
Romans 14:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17[/SUP] For the kingdom of God ( Jesus said that the kingdom of God is within you..He might know a thing or two ) is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
Here it says that God made us righteousness in Christ.
1 Corinthians 1:30 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
This says we have become the righteousness of Christ ( this is called a dependent clause in the greek - it is determined as fulfilled because Christ became sin )
2 Corinthians 5:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Believers are called righteousness.
2 Corinthians 6:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
Here it is saying that "righteousness comes by Christ".
Galatians 2:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."
Here we have the breastplate of righteousness - which is the armor of God that we are to be strong in.
Ephesians 6:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, andhaving on the breastplate of righteousness;
This talks about the new man in Christ - the new creation.
Ephesians 4:24 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.
Ok..that's enough..there are tons more....
I can give you guys what the scriptures say about righteousness and believers that are "in Christ" now. Everyone can believe what they want too.
The understanding of the new creation in Christ and the new identity of the believer is paramount to living the true Christian life.
Here it says our spirit ( the inner person that is a new creation in Christ ) is alive because of righteousness that it is it.
Romans 8:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin,yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
Here righteousness is a gift - you don't earn it.
Romans 5:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
We have grace reigning in our lives because of righteousness in us.
Romans 5:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21[/SUP] That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Here righteousness comes by faith.
Romans 9:30 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
Here when we believe - we are righteousness.
Romans 10:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
We are in the kingdom of God.
Romans 14:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17[/SUP] For the kingdom of God ( Jesus said that the kingdom of God is within you..He might know a thing or two ) is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
Here it says that God made us righteousness in Christ.
1 Corinthians 1:30 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
This says we have become the righteousness of Christ ( this is called a dependent clause in the greek - it is determined as fulfilled because Christ became sin )
2 Corinthians 5:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Believers are called righteousness.
2 Corinthians 6:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
Here it is saying that "righteousness comes by Christ".
Galatians 2:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."
Here we have the breastplate of righteousness - which is the armor of God that we are to be strong in.
Ephesians 6:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, andhaving on the breastplate of righteousness;
This talks about the new man in Christ - the new creation.
Ephesians 4:24 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.
Ok..that's enough..there are tons more....
We that are in Christ have the Lord's righteousness now in our inner man that is in Christ.
Isaiah 45:24-25 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] "They will say of Me, 'Only in the LORD are righteousness and strength.' Men will come to Him, And all who were angry at Him will be put to shame.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] "In the LORD all the offspring of Israel Will be justified and will glory."
Here is one more from the OT - Isaiah 54: 17 of the Lord telling what the believer would have because of what Christ did in Isaiah 53 when He died on the cross to take away our sin and make us righteous in Him.
Isaiah 54:17
[SUP]17 [/SUP] "No weapon that is formed against you will prosper; And every tongue that accuses you in judgment you will condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, And their righteousness is from Me," declares the LORD.
Folks we have a great salvation in our Lord Jesus Christ!
Ephesians 3:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] To me, the very least of all saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ,
Isaiah 45:24-25 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] "They will say of Me, 'Only in the LORD are righteousness and strength.' Men will come to Him, And all who were angry at Him will be put to shame.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] "In the LORD all the offspring of Israel Will be justified and will glory."
Here is one more from the OT - Isaiah 54: 17 of the Lord telling what the believer would have because of what Christ did in Isaiah 53 when He died on the cross to take away our sin and make us righteous in Him.
Isaiah 54:17
[SUP]17 [/SUP] "No weapon that is formed against you will prosper; And every tongue that accuses you in judgment you will condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, And their righteousness is from Me," declares the LORD.
Folks we have a great salvation in our Lord Jesus Christ!
Ephesians 3:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] To me, the very least of all saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unfathomable riches of Christ,
This does make me laugh. But not in a bad way. When talking about faith and frames of reference, you always come across this problem. A car in on country means a small vehical used for transporting people. In another it could be a super-car which is a status symbol.
We also both have our theories why the other side takes their position. Now an outsider could suppose as once was between me and another member that our theology was very close. But actually we have been miles apart because of our emotional interpretation of our faiths.
As normal it has taken me a long time to see why I am evil and trampling
the gospel. And it all comes down to can we walk righteously or not.
One heresy says you can be righteous outside of Christ. This is a none starter.
But to be righteous, pure, clean after being washed is heaven, is the Kingdom.
A small step is to say one sin, makes this an illusion, a lie into hypocracy. Now there
is truth here, if you do not believe in repentance, confession and faith.
But to take this to giving up, and devaluing Christ and the hope, is an enemy of the
cross. So we will always be enemies, because our theology forces this and tells us
both the other is a sinner lost to sin. At least we are consistent in our summaries.
We also both have our theories why the other side takes their position. Now an outsider could suppose as once was between me and another member that our theology was very close. But actually we have been miles apart because of our emotional interpretation of our faiths.
As normal it has taken me a long time to see why I am evil and trampling
the gospel. And it all comes down to can we walk righteously or not.
One heresy says you can be righteous outside of Christ. This is a none starter.
But to be righteous, pure, clean after being washed is heaven, is the Kingdom.
A small step is to say one sin, makes this an illusion, a lie into hypocracy. Now there
is truth here, if you do not believe in repentance, confession and faith.
But to take this to giving up, and devaluing Christ and the hope, is an enemy of the
cross. So we will always be enemies, because our theology forces this and tells us
both the other is a sinner lost to sin. At least we are consistent in our summaries.
What I love is grace7 posts all these verses which support both sides in their own
positions, because the words are taken differently. That for me is irony.
We live in a mortal world that is debating the eternal. So letting things play out so
it becomes obvious is the Lords way. Think about this. Why should He come and
give a talk about why this is right or that is wrong. He already has, people just do
not want to listen. So the next level is you choose your course and see where it
leads. Maybe then as the prodigal son found, you cry out to God, see the truth and
go home. If this saves some then it is worth it.
But if the truth is revealed now, clearly, openly, then hope is gone and fate is sealed.
Once you see things plain as day, your heart responds to its kingdom. It is not like
a choice. I see it even here, people listen enough to one style, choose it as their own
and even an innocent statement labels you friend or foe.
Jesus said in effect this is reality, purgatory here and now, and sifting of the souls of
man to see where they fall out. If love steers you, the Lord works in your soul.
We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love each other. Anyone who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.
1 John 3:14-16
So be encouraged, but if you find yourself falling short, call out to Jesus,
and He will meet you.
positions, because the words are taken differently. That for me is irony.
We live in a mortal world that is debating the eternal. So letting things play out so
it becomes obvious is the Lords way. Think about this. Why should He come and
give a talk about why this is right or that is wrong. He already has, people just do
not want to listen. So the next level is you choose your course and see where it
leads. Maybe then as the prodigal son found, you cry out to God, see the truth and
go home. If this saves some then it is worth it.
But if the truth is revealed now, clearly, openly, then hope is gone and fate is sealed.
Once you see things plain as day, your heart responds to its kingdom. It is not like
a choice. I see it even here, people listen enough to one style, choose it as their own
and even an innocent statement labels you friend or foe.
Jesus said in effect this is reality, purgatory here and now, and sifting of the souls of
man to see where they fall out. If love steers you, the Lord works in your soul.
We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love each other. Anyone who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.
1 John 3:14-16
So be encouraged, but if you find yourself falling short, call out to Jesus,
and He will meet you.
Thank you. I can say the same to you.
There are two outcomes of these discussions. We can learn about our differences
and agreements or we can tell others why they should join us and not them.
And make no mistake there is very much an us and them, which you so obviously
declare. The difference is I am very open about it, and define it carefully, you do not.
There are two outcomes of these discussions. We can learn about our differences
and agreements or we can tell others why they should join us and not them.
And make no mistake there is very much an us and them, which you so obviously
declare. The difference is I am very open about it, and define it carefully, you do not.
L
The longer I come to CC to post on the forums and talk in the Bible study room, I notice there are so many who appose true grace and while apposing, truly believe they are doing good for Jesus and people. Those who share about Jesus and His grace are treated as if they are talking about poison. I'm stumped at the accusations and the anger., and find it more aggravating each time and counter productive.
Now I understand a bit more why those who believe in the gospel of grace and truth that Jesus brought don't want to come here and are posting less and less to those who appose and just giving the good news out to those who are thirsty for the living water. Not interested in the 'in fighting'
The other day the question arose in the Bible study room about- what if you believed in the wrong Jesus. The usual condemnation of other well known Christians on tv etc..etc...
I believe the Bible when it says "there is no other name given under heaven where by we must be saved". And yet more arguing done about the (what ifs)., I have come to see that the (what if's) questions in life are stupid mind traps satan uses to derail the Christian.,not edify or enlighten us.
Many Christians expound on their "God given Bible right" to call "out" and condemn other Christians for their beliefs. As well as cast doubt on someone's salvation by asking "what if you didn't believe in the right Jesus"
I believe this is not good news at all. Just confusing news and frustration. Going in the BS room for me is like getting ready for a battle each time I sign in. What is the point?
More doubt is cast on the truth that Jesus alone saves because of the Love (grace) of God. More doubt put out there about the reason we ARE saved (love-grace), and how we STAY saved (love-grace) All because of Jesus and His grace., NOT our words of wisdom or our superior ability to be wise enough to know a good thing when we see it and do a good thing when we see it. Without Jesus we are un able to do anything or believe anything right.
Who has time for this "brotherly" opposition? Those that come out against the grace of God In Christ are those Christians who have not yet experienced His overcoming power that can and will DAILY change us from the inside out. And I have no doubt it is a DAILY battle for the Christian to keep the proper mind set.
That power; love; and a sound mind we have been given is part of the renewing process of the Holy Spirit and the Word. He will and can take away the strong power of the old mind set of anger and other negatives we have learned in our human flesh and daily replace it with His grace and power each day while here on earth as believers. This flesh is what we are walking around in and it is the Holy Spirit and the Word that reveals to us what that ugly flesh does and how it is overcome.
How this flesh can walk a half Christian life. Our flesh can and does talk about working for Jesus and yet can't control the deep seeded anger inside caused before they got saved. The flesh can go to church every Sunday and Wednesday.,read the Bible and pray and yet still be boiling angry at his brother enough to judge and banish him. I've been on both sides of this fence and daily strive to stay on one side now. Coming here draws me to defend and fight and that is not being encouraged to stay on the right side. It causes me to compromise.
I respect you Grace777 and EG and FreeInChrist and Cee and all the others who give out the gospel of grace and truth. I'm weary of the opposition in here though. I'm finding myself frustrated when I come here each day more than uplifted. You guys are amazing trying to lead some certain 2 horses to water even as these horses fight and bite and kick you and falsely accuse you. It turns out to be a fight to get them to drink. Even when you just talk and share about the amazing water of life they condemn and accuse you.
Because I've been here a few years now and it mattered to me a lot to come each day and share., I wanted to state what I believed without anyone apposing me. Finish a thought without being interrupted.
There is an art to simply just leaving a room and shutting off the computer when it even looks like it will be a time for the siblings to argue and fight. But for me., it's coming to the point of why bother even joining in a room where I have to brace myself for opposition and misunderstanding? There are a lot more stubborn horses (even mules) who have tons of reasoning power in the BS room that I can't ever hope to match. And no longer have a desire to try. My last visit was just the pits. Enough to cause me to resign myself to avoiding those who in the family don't like me and being around those in the family who do. Just like in life.
Now I understand a bit more why those who believe in the gospel of grace and truth that Jesus brought don't want to come here and are posting less and less to those who appose and just giving the good news out to those who are thirsty for the living water. Not interested in the 'in fighting'
The other day the question arose in the Bible study room about- what if you believed in the wrong Jesus. The usual condemnation of other well known Christians on tv etc..etc...
I believe the Bible when it says "there is no other name given under heaven where by we must be saved". And yet more arguing done about the (what ifs)., I have come to see that the (what if's) questions in life are stupid mind traps satan uses to derail the Christian.,not edify or enlighten us.
Many Christians expound on their "God given Bible right" to call "out" and condemn other Christians for their beliefs. As well as cast doubt on someone's salvation by asking "what if you didn't believe in the right Jesus"
I believe this is not good news at all. Just confusing news and frustration. Going in the BS room for me is like getting ready for a battle each time I sign in. What is the point?More doubt is cast on the truth that Jesus alone saves because of the Love (grace) of God. More doubt put out there about the reason we ARE saved (love-grace), and how we STAY saved (love-grace) All because of Jesus and His grace., NOT our words of wisdom or our superior ability to be wise enough to know a good thing when we see it and do a good thing when we see it. Without Jesus we are un able to do anything or believe anything right.
Who has time for this "brotherly" opposition? Those that come out against the grace of God In Christ are those Christians who have not yet experienced His overcoming power that can and will DAILY change us from the inside out. And I have no doubt it is a DAILY battle for the Christian to keep the proper mind set.
That power; love; and a sound mind we have been given is part of the renewing process of the Holy Spirit and the Word. He will and can take away the strong power of the old mind set of anger and other negatives we have learned in our human flesh and daily replace it with His grace and power each day while here on earth as believers. This flesh is what we are walking around in and it is the Holy Spirit and the Word that reveals to us what that ugly flesh does and how it is overcome.
How this flesh can walk a half Christian life. Our flesh can and does talk about working for Jesus and yet can't control the deep seeded anger inside caused before they got saved. The flesh can go to church every Sunday and Wednesday.,read the Bible and pray and yet still be boiling angry at his brother enough to judge and banish him. I've been on both sides of this fence and daily strive to stay on one side now. Coming here draws me to defend and fight and that is not being encouraged to stay on the right side. It causes me to compromise.
I respect you Grace777 and EG and FreeInChrist and Cee and all the others who give out the gospel of grace and truth. I'm weary of the opposition in here though. I'm finding myself frustrated when I come here each day more than uplifted. You guys are amazing trying to lead some certain 2 horses to water even as these horses fight and bite and kick you and falsely accuse you. It turns out to be a fight to get them to drink. Even when you just talk and share about the amazing water of life they condemn and accuse you.
Because I've been here a few years now and it mattered to me a lot to come each day and share., I wanted to state what I believed without anyone apposing me.
Finish a thought without being interrupted. There is an art to simply just leaving a room and shutting off the computer when it even looks like it will be a time for the siblings to argue and fight. But for me., it's coming to the point of why bother even joining in a room where I have to brace myself for opposition and misunderstanding? There are a lot more stubborn horses (even mules) who have tons of reasoning power in the BS room that I can't ever hope to match. And no longer have a desire to try. My last visit was just the pits. Enough to cause me to resign myself to avoiding those who in the family don't like me and being around those in the family who do. Just like in life.
Interesting analogy. Jesus and His grace mean something different to you than to me.
And yes it is true spirituality is not about feeling nice and happy, lets all go for a group
hug.
Any christian who says sin is part of my life, and I cannot come to terms with it has
either never known the plot or is totally compromised.
Jesus had lots of followers who liked his morality, but then he said you have to drink
His blood and eat His flesh to follow Him. A lot of people left following Him.
Now the problem with sin and failure, is it is sin and failure. But why are people so
lost in unbelief this is the way to follow Christ. It is like love is not about overcoming
and dwelling with Christ is not refreshing and being washed, cleansed, lost in wonder
and praise, but a failure session with a patch up agreement of trying better next time.
"Opposing true grace" - maybe the people of God know true grace and walk in it.
No one is an island, and we deny some realities to ourselves. A narrow path, and few
find it is not a joke or something without real danger. But to preach the world and taking
things easy is just easy believism.
What did Paul say about sin:-
Come back to your senses as you ought, and stop sinning; for there are some who are ignorant of God—I say this to your shame.
1 Cor 15:34
Is Paul saying it is ok, you can never stop sinning, just look at Christ
and no longer be sin conscious, it will all go away, and those evil people
talking about repentance should be condemned as working evil from satan.
No. He says, "STOP SINNING"
And if what you condemn yourself for is not sin, stop condemning yourself
and know God truly loves you. The cross is healing to who we are, and obedience
the key to walking in this new life. What we condemn is compromise with sin, real
sin not some hyper-legalist definition of thinking about things you need to survive
is not loving God with everything you are. This is just insanity and deception.
And yes it is true spirituality is not about feeling nice and happy, lets all go for a group
hug.
Any christian who says sin is part of my life, and I cannot come to terms with it has
either never known the plot or is totally compromised.
Jesus had lots of followers who liked his morality, but then he said you have to drink
His blood and eat His flesh to follow Him. A lot of people left following Him.
Now the problem with sin and failure, is it is sin and failure. But why are people so
lost in unbelief this is the way to follow Christ. It is like love is not about overcoming
and dwelling with Christ is not refreshing and being washed, cleansed, lost in wonder
and praise, but a failure session with a patch up agreement of trying better next time.
"Opposing true grace" - maybe the people of God know true grace and walk in it.
No one is an island, and we deny some realities to ourselves. A narrow path, and few
find it is not a joke or something without real danger. But to preach the world and taking
things easy is just easy believism.
What did Paul say about sin:-
Come back to your senses as you ought, and stop sinning; for there are some who are ignorant of God—I say this to your shame.
1 Cor 15:34
Is Paul saying it is ok, you can never stop sinning, just look at Christ
and no longer be sin conscious, it will all go away, and those evil people
talking about repentance should be condemned as working evil from satan.
No. He says, "STOP SINNING"
And if what you condemn yourself for is not sin, stop condemning yourself
and know God truly loves you. The cross is healing to who we are, and obedience
the key to walking in this new life. What we condemn is compromise with sin, real
sin not some hyper-legalist definition of thinking about things you need to survive
is not loving God with everything you are. This is just insanity and deception.
as he is, so are you...
Spotless, Holy, Faultless, Whole
Righteous, Blameless, Pardoned
You are the Righteousness of God
through Jesus
Now the above is true if you cleanse your heart, walk
in righteousness and love, purity and blamelessly.
If not it is just pipe dreams and hypocracy.
Is this what faith is to you, claiming that which is not your
own and living as evil doers but dreaming you have arrived.
Insane.
Spotless, Holy, Faultless, Whole
Righteous, Blameless, Pardoned
You are the Righteousness of God
through Jesus
Now the above is true if you cleanse your heart, walk
in righteousness and love, purity and blamelessly.
If not it is just pipe dreams and hypocracy.
Is this what faith is to you, claiming that which is not your
own and living as evil doers but dreaming you have arrived.
Insane.
The righteous in Christ live by faith in what He has done and are "believers" in Him
Romans 1:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."
Romans 10:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, ( by their own good works ) they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.
Romans 1:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."
Romans 10:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, ( by their own good works ) they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.
L
ok
so are you saying you are hypergrace?
your posts are kind of confusing. you do not seem to actually take note of what people say, you just impose something over what they say
all this talk of hypergrace and I seem to notice the only person who keeps talking about it is you
why do you do this?
I don't think anyone actually gets anything out of your posts and you just seem to do your best to put threads off track like you did with this one
that is not the mark of a person who respects others nor is very Christian. It's actually immature, childish and a person really starts to wonder what your motive is
Perhaps you have a personal grudge going? Maybe you should seek the Lord on this
so are you saying you are hypergrace?
your posts are kind of confusing. you do not seem to actually take note of what people say, you just impose something over what they say
all this talk of hypergrace and I seem to notice the only person who keeps talking about it is you
why do you do this?
I don't think anyone actually gets anything out of your posts and you just seem to do your best to put threads off track like you did with this one
that is not the mark of a person who respects others nor is very Christian. It's actually immature, childish and a person really starts to wonder what your motive is
Perhaps you have a personal grudge going? Maybe you should seek the Lord on this
Question - Why does John write this
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.
Rev 21:8
He writes this because people were claiming you do be involved in this behaviour
and grace is enough. But look at the list. It is very specific.
Cowardly - those who compromise Jesus as a result of threats.
Unbelieving - those who do not trust in Christ
vile - those who are not pure
murderers - those who kill with no legal justification
sexually immoral - those who have no sexual boundaries
majic arts - the mystical contact with the dead, authority not of God
idolaters - those who mix idolatry in their life, praying to idols
lying - not speaking the truth to gain advantage
All these are simple to define behaviours and groups, but clearly John needed
to write a list because some in the church were blurring the lines, like some do
today.
So believers who are now unbelieving, lost. Those who buy there way out of
trouble by denying faith or reality, those having affairs and just living with partners,
those who believe in communing with angels, talking to the dead, going to heaven
is astral travelling. Lying is having no interest in truth or desiring to fairly represent
people and their intentions. I have seen this intentionally used to large effect, but
it is meant to just hurt and destroy, not bring light to a difficult area.
And we have all this today, in the "christian" church as if this is behaviour acceptable
to the Lord. And where have I seen this most, in the hyper grace mystic camp.
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.
Rev 21:8
He writes this because people were claiming you do be involved in this behaviour
and grace is enough. But look at the list. It is very specific.
Cowardly - those who compromise Jesus as a result of threats.
Unbelieving - those who do not trust in Christ
vile - those who are not pure
murderers - those who kill with no legal justification
sexually immoral - those who have no sexual boundaries
majic arts - the mystical contact with the dead, authority not of God
idolaters - those who mix idolatry in their life, praying to idols
lying - not speaking the truth to gain advantage
All these are simple to define behaviours and groups, but clearly John needed
to write a list because some in the church were blurring the lines, like some do
today.
So believers who are now unbelieving, lost. Those who buy there way out of
trouble by denying faith or reality, those having affairs and just living with partners,
those who believe in communing with angels, talking to the dead, going to heaven
is astral travelling. Lying is having no interest in truth or desiring to fairly represent
people and their intentions. I have seen this intentionally used to large effect, but
it is meant to just hurt and destroy, not bring light to a difficult area.
And we have all this today, in the "christian" church as if this is behaviour acceptable
to the Lord. And where have I seen this most, in the hyper grace mystic camp.
L
gee
there is so much here, it takes a while to catch up with it all
the weird thing is, I do not see people here saying anything about hyper grace but the other fellow I posted to and you
who are you talking to?
I should say, while I'm at it, that everyone does sin and there is a huge difference between living in sin and committing sin
the Bible calls anyone who thinks they never sin a liar, so I really doubt people here want to identify with that
again, I get the impression some people here just want to cause friction
I mean this thread was about being a new creation in Christ Jesus; nothing whatsoever to do with this hyper grace thing you and the other fellow are constantly going on about
what exactly is the problem?
there is so much here, it takes a while to catch up with it all
the weird thing is, I do not see people here saying anything about hyper grace but the other fellow I posted to and you
who are you talking to?
I should say, while I'm at it, that everyone does sin and there is a huge difference between living in sin and committing sin
the Bible calls anyone who thinks they never sin a liar, so I really doubt people here want to identify with that
again, I get the impression some people here just want to cause friction
I mean this thread was about being a new creation in Christ Jesus; nothing whatsoever to do with this hyper grace thing you and the other fellow are constantly going on about
what exactly is the problem?
We are definitely joined to Christ in the spirit. You are too if you are in fact in Christ.
1 Corinthians 6:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
Romans 8:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
We need to acknowledge every good thing that is in us in Christ in order to make our faith effectual - which means working.
If not then we have to try to establish our own life and righteousness by our own human self-effort which is the flesh. There is bad flesh and there is good flesh - but it is all flesh.
Philemon 1:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] That the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus.
1 Corinthians 6:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
Romans 8:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
We need to acknowledge every good thing that is in us in Christ in order to make our faith effectual - which means working.
If not then we have to try to establish our own life and righteousness by our own human self-effort which is the flesh. There is bad flesh and there is good flesh - but it is all flesh.
Philemon 1:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] That the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus.
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L
16So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come:[SUP]a[/SUP] The old has gone, the new is here!
18All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.
20We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21God made him who had no sin to be sin[SUP]b[/SUP] for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. II Cor.
What I really like here, is Paul saying that he no longer is regarding these people, believers in Christ, in a worldly POV
and he says nothing about sin other than that Jesus, our Savior, became sin for us even though he never sinned
now of course anyone with any common sense, realizes that no where does he say we can sin all we want and of course as believers in Christ, we no longer want to sin
the remarkable thing here, is that Christ gave Himself to RECONCILE us to God
reconciliation is a ministry in and of itself. as believers, we too should be hard at work doing our best to bring peace, restoration and God's love to this world and among other believers
it is just so wrong to deliberately misinterpret what is plainly written and make it seem anyone would want to continue in sin and I seriously have to wonder at the motive there. Is there perhaps some hidden hurt or grudge or desire to wound others?
I have seen that type of thing and I have also seen where people decide to do what is right and forgive and bring peace
that, is reconciliation even as Christ did for us between us and God
18All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.
20We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21God made him who had no sin to be sin[SUP]b[/SUP] for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. II Cor.
What I really like here, is Paul saying that he no longer is regarding these people, believers in Christ, in a worldly POV
and he says nothing about sin other than that Jesus, our Savior, became sin for us even though he never sinned
now of course anyone with any common sense, realizes that no where does he say we can sin all we want and of course as believers in Christ, we no longer want to sin
the remarkable thing here, is that Christ gave Himself to RECONCILE us to God
reconciliation is a ministry in and of itself. as believers, we too should be hard at work doing our best to bring peace, restoration and God's love to this world and among other believers
it is just so wrong to deliberately misinterpret what is plainly written and make it seem anyone would want to continue in sin and I seriously have to wonder at the motive there. Is there perhaps some hidden hurt or grudge or desire to wound others?
I have seen that type of thing and I have also seen where people decide to do what is right and forgive and bring peace
that, is reconciliation even as Christ did for us between us and God