Do men want women to take the initive when approaching relationships?

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gypsygirl

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2012
1,394
60
48
#81
Well I got no dog in this fight. Your points are valid - EXCEPT for the little graph indicating 98 out of 100 rapists go unpunished. Also says 68 % of rapes go unreported? I mean - how do they even come up with that number? I don't know. Regardless of whether the numbers are accurate - which they probably aren't. It may be worse! Or it may not be. Point is that the generalization is, true or not, that 98 out a hundred men get away with rape. So the point you made was that men don't get punished for rape, even when they're caught. And you prove that by providing unsubstantiated graphs. That's generalization and up there in your message you said to let you know if there was one and so I did. :)
That could be true violakat! But who did they interview? Random women? Or was the polling more cunning? Or did they interview anyone at all? That's kinda the problem I have with these things. The graph I was speaking of is this one:
View attachment 138724

The issue I have is these are numbers based on hidden information or information that is or probably is arbitrary. I have the same problem with polling. It's like i don't believe anything anymore, but I especially doubt snipets like these that are intended to paint a picture of fact when they might be anything but. We just really don't know and I think a lot of "facts" are in fact manipulated for political reasons or for generalizations.
The link I listed below the graph goes to the website which lists the sources used to make it.

References


  1. Justice Department, National Crime Victimization Survey: 2008-2012
  2. FBI, Uniform Crime Reports, Arrest Data: 2006-2010
  3. FBI, Uniform Crime Reports, Offenses Cleared Data: 2006-2010
  4. Department of Justice, Felony Defendents in Large Urban Counties: 2009
  5. Department of Justice, Felony Defendents in Large Urban Counties: 2009


My point in listing the graph was to show that both men and women have trouble finding justice. This was prompted by reading numerous posts talking about how men are accused of rape innocently, women are evil, and there is no justice in the world (for men).
i'm going to back up this chart with resounding anecdotal evidence of my own. honestly, i USED to have some more specific data that i would use in the jr. high girls' CHOICE program (and have presented before) but i seriously am not going to look for it now. : ) the numbers aren't that different. anyway, back to my own "data".

i was sexually assaulted by someone who i was on a date with a number of years ago. while we had been on one previous date before, i didn't know him ALL that well, other than basic info one might have exchanged in a couple conversations. but i trusted him more than i should have because he and i shared an acquaintance in common.

unfortunately, like so many women, i was so horrified, humiliated, and embarrassed by the fact that i had trusted someone i thought was harmless, kind, and even "christian" that i couldn't bring myself to report it immediately. i couldn't even imagine saying these things out loud. within a day or two, i was so traumatized that i withdrew completely into myself and wouldn't tell a single person about it for almost two years, mostly because of the shame and horror. i was so disgusted by the whole thing, and for a very long time blamed myself for ridiculous reasons that i can't even explain now. plus, real trauma immobilizes us. it causes us to make bad decisions, as well. scientifically, the worse decisions we make are following traumas.

the road back for me was heavy involvement in sexual violence support groups (roughly 6 years), where i have now heard untold numbers of stories in graphic details. in my experience, the actual reporting of sexual battery/violence is easily less than 5 percent. at one point, i remember in a group of 28, only 1 had been reported, and that was because she was a minor whose mother had interceded when her daughter came home from her second date in a physical and emotional state that was indicative of something horrible happening.

some of the non-reporting is due to violence in domestic/relationship situations. some is because they are afraid of not being believed. nobody wants to be the girl who is known for being raped. and that's a label i've never been comfortable with -- victim. i didn't want to be seen differently than who i am. and i was ashamed for not being able to inflict more damage. i didn't want to go through the conversations from friends/relatives who would ask me questions or want to tell me how sorry they were. i didn't want to see that look of awkwardness when someone didn't know what to say, and i surely didn't want to be the topic over dinner at the houses of those who knew me.

anyway, i want to say, there are a lot of abusive women too. the issue of violence against men (domestic and otherwise) is just as serious and ugly. and in their cases, i am sure they are very underreported. perhaps even more so than the female victims.

the struggle needs to stop against men and women, and refocus on what we can do, and how we can change things. starting with ourselves. shawn2516, if you're fed up with what is unfair about how men are perceived, you can do a lot about that. for example your allies aren't ever going to be found through gender, but through common goals, and faith--namely our shared pursuit of holiness.

we live in a fallen world where we ALL fall short. none of us make the mark. and that is why our only hope is in dying to Christ daily, and focusing on our ability to show His light and goodness in the world, not our own agenda of outrage and frustration. your brothers and sisters aren't the enemy. further, when i fill up with moral outrage, angry at how some people act i'm quickly reminded of my own ugly sin nature, and all that He's forgiven me for. that sort of takes the wind right out of my self-righteous sails.
 
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K

kenthomas27

Guest
#82
The link I listed below the graph goes to the website which lists the sources used to make it.

References


  1. Justice Department, National Crime Victimization Survey: 2008-2012
  2. FBI, Uniform Crime Reports, Arrest Data: 2006-2010
  3. FBI, Uniform Crime Reports, Offenses Cleared Data: 2006-2010
  4. Department of Justice, Felony Defendents in Large Urban Counties: 2009
  5. Department of Justice, Felony Defendents in Large Urban Counties: 2009


My point in listing the graph was to show that both men and women have trouble finding justice. This was prompted by reading numerous posts talking about how men are accused of rape innocently, women are evil, and there is no justice in the world (for men).
i'm going to back up this chart with resounding anecdotal evidence of my own. honestly, i USED to have some more specific data that i would use in the jr. high girls' CHOICE program (and have presented before) but i seriously am not going to look for it now. : ) the numbers aren't that different. anyway, back to my own "data".

i was sexually assaulted by someone who i was on a date with a number of years ago. while we had been on one previous date before, i didn't know him ALL that well, other than basic info one might have exchanged in a couple conversations. but i trusted him more than i should have because he and i shared an acquaintance in common.

unfortunately, like so many women, i was so horrified, humiliated, and embarrassed by the fact that i had trusted someone i thought was harmless, kind, and even "christian" that i couldn't bring myself to report it immediately. i couldn't even imagine saying these things out loud. within a day or two, i was so traumatized that i withdrew completely into myself and wouldn't tell a single person about it for almost two years, mostly because of the shame and horror. i was so disgusted by the whole thing, and for a very long time blamed myself for ridiculous reasons that i can't even explain now. plus, real trauma immobilizes us. it causes us to make bad decisions, as well. scientifically, the worse decisions we make are following traumas.

the road back for me was heavy involvement in sexual violence support groups (roughly 6 years), where i have now heard untold numbers of stories in graphic details. in my experience, the actual reporting of sexual battery/violence is easily less than 5 percent. at one point, i remember in a group of 28, only 1 had been reported, and that was because she was a minor whose mother had interceded when her daughter came home from her second date in a physical and emotional state that was indicative of something horrible happening.

some of the non-reporting is due to violence in domestic/relationship situations. some is because they are afraid of not being believed. nobody wants to be the girl who is known for being raped. and that's a label i've never been comfortable with -- victim. i didn't want to be seen differently than who i am. and i was ashamed for not being able to inflict more damage. i didn't want to go through the conversations from friends/relatives who would ask me questions or want to tell me how sorry they were. i didn't want to see that look of awkwardness when someone didn't know what to say, and i surely didn't want to be the topic over dinner at the houses of those who knew me.

anyway, i want to say, there are a lot of abusive women too. the issue of violence against men (domestic and otherwise) is just as serious and ugly. and in their cases, i am sure they are very underreported. perhaps even more so than the female victims.

the struggle needs to stop against men and women, and refocus on what we can do, and how we can change things. starting with ourselves. shawn2516, if you're fed up with what is unfair about how men are perceived, you can do a lot about that. for example your allies aren't ever going to be found through gender, but through common goals, and faith--namely our shared pursuit of holiness.

we live in a fallen world where we ALL fall short. none of us make the mark. and that is why our only hope is in dying to Christ daily, and focusing on our ability to show His light and goodness in the world, not our own agenda of outrage and frustration. your brothers and sisters aren't the enemy. further, when i fill up with moral outrage, angry at how some people act i'm quickly reminded of my own ugly sin nature, and all that He's forgiven me for. that sort of takes the wind right out of my self-righteous sails.
Again - Like I said, I have no dog in this fight. I thought the points were VALID as i stated previously. The point I'm making is that it was a generalization that all men, 98%, get away with rape when at least from a spiritual perspective, i don't think anybody does - but to now say, GLR, that your point of the graph was to "...show that men and women have trouble finding justice' in this matter doesn't ring true to me. It was to show that women don't find justice. And while I'm sure, Giypsy, you could dig up your own statistics and even have your own very tragic story, which you rightly said was anecdotal, I still remain skeptical about ALL numbers and polling and statistical evidence (which was my point) when numbers are constantly and consistently manipulated to draw conclusions best fitting someone's agenda. The fact that the graph was researched from government sources makes me even more suspect.

This was my point from the get-go. As I said, I have no other dog in the fight.
 
Sep 6, 2013
4,430
117
63
#83
Again - Like I said, I have no dog in this fight. I thought the points were VALID as i stated previously. The point I'm making is that it was a generalization that all men, 98%, get away with rape when at least from a spiritual perspective, i don't think anybody does - but to now say, GLR, that your point of the graph was to "...show that men and women have trouble finding justice' in this matter doesn't ring true to me. It was to show that women don't find justice. And while I'm sure, Giypsy, you could dig up your own statistics and even have your own very tragic story, which you rightly said was anecdotal, I still remain skeptical about ALL numbers and polling and statistical evidence (which was my point) when numbers are constantly and consistently manipulated to draw conclusions best fitting someone's agenda. The fact that the graph was researched from government sources makes me even more suspect.

This was my point from the get-go. As I said, I have no other dog in the fight.
You are right that my post was reactionary, Thomas. I'm sorry about that.
 

TriviaGirl86

Senior Member
Nov 2, 2011
139
3
18
#84
No you are correct, not that I am bitter, but that I do pick on women a lot. I could go into details why, but I think my efforts in explaining would be wasted. Most women only hear what they want to hear, and see only what they want to see. And for that reason, unless I think they have some sort of empathy towards actually trying to understand living in a guys shoes, I won't waste my time for someone who doesn't care to see the other side.



And that is where men and women separate. You see, you talk about injustice done to women in the past, mostly because its been cleaned up by now. I'm talking about injustice towards men that is happening live and current. Your want to say, women are victims in the past, and I want to say, men are the victims right now. Now ask yourself this question, which one needs saving? One already has been saved, one needs help right away, but they do not get that help, because their men. No one cares about men.

You do exactly what you accuse women of doing, which is not understanding or empathizing with the opposite gender in the slightest. Now that you're married I would hope you would be able to do so for your wife. Btw, what I mentioned about women going to jail for being raped still happens in certain parts of the world and in some areas women are killed for adultery when men are given a free pass (lots of places allow for several wives). This is not a woman's world at all and it's incredibly sad that you think it is. Men may commit suicide more than women but women are more likely to be on anti-depressants and have harmful eating disorders/body dysmorphia. If we were counting doing self-harm to suicide statistics, I guarantee the results would be much different.

Also, have you heard of parts of Africa, the middle east, middle and southeast Asia where girls are not wanted to the point of being aborted or abandoned by their parents? Where wives can be beaten and mistreated without repercussion? Where little girls are sold into sexual slavery? This may not be as common in the Western world but girls still face less blatant discrimination like being discouraged from pursuing certain vocations and are more likely to be sexually assaulted ("1 in 2 women have experienced sexual violence other than rape in their lifetime (as opposed to 1 in 5 men)."*)

I'm sure I won't change your opinions on anything but the fact of the matter is this. This world we live in, which is sinful and controlled by Satan in its evil ways is more of a patriarchy then a matriarchy. Now, do both genders do evil things...yes. Do both genders experience discrimination...yes. But don't tell me lies about how women are only victims in the past because that doesn't sit well with me. And if you say no one cares about men...go to pretty much anywhere in the world and you'll find you get treated better than women. But you wouldn't know this because you haven't lived on the other side of the coin.

*National Statistics | Rape Response Services
 
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Aug 13, 2013
965
8
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#86
I thought this was about who did the persuing not about assault? How did we get there?
 

peacenik

Senior Member
May 11, 2016
3,071
26
38
#89
I've been raised that men would rather do the perusing when it comes to relationships but at almost 23 I can't help to wonder if the way I've been brought up is wrong or not because girls in my generation has always chased men and it's always seemed to work. I've noticed the men never seemed to mind. So I'm just wondering would men rather peruse the woman or does it just depend on the person?



Among many Hispanics it is perfectly normal for women to approach men in starting relationships. Bear in mind that the Hispanic population has grown immensely in the USA over the past few decades and it continues to grow. This no doubt has had some influence on that trend.

Having said all that, I'm still waiting for a wealthy heiress to walk into my life ...
 

Dan58

Senior Member
Nov 13, 2013
1,991
339
83
#93
I do... But then again, I'm lazy :)

Actually, it would be nice to be on the other side of the fence for a change. It would be nice to shoot instead of being shot down :)
 
R

Rosesrock

Guest
#94
Fantastic question... I was raised in a time where girl didn't call boys or even begin conversations because it was forward. Here's my story ..

I was off to college and ran into the only guy on the planet that I had interest of seeing where a relationship would go.. You know, the open window. We awkwardly talked about college and he asked when I left town. I replied two days.
We continued the talk and all of a sudden he asks for my number...as I thought wow took you long enough. I waited.........and waited.......nothing. Off to college I go and meh I shrugged it off thinking he changed his mind because of the distance thing. A couple weeks later I was gone for a weekend and I gave in and called him at work. Actually asking God to forgive me going against what I had been taught.
He came to the phone and thanked me for calling because he had lost my number. He asked for it again, called me after work...... And we've been married 24 years.
So the mural of this story. Don't lose a girls number.....Lol
Some guys needs a nudge that a girl is interested.
 

peacenik

Senior Member
May 11, 2016
3,071
26
38
#95
As I wrote on another thread, in all my years whenever I saw a marriage that was initiated by the woman, it remained blissful for life and it NEVER ended in divorce.
 

BruceWayne

Senior Member
Aug 7, 2013
3,694
357
83
Gotham City
#96
I like re-reading my responses from an old threads lol. Sometimes they change, but I still think it doesn't matter either way. As a guy I don't expect them to take the initiative, but I also don't mind it. I've had relationships initiated by the girl and It was fine. If you have an interest in someone, then show it. ;)
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
#97
I do like when a woman makes the first move I can be little shy, though lately I've been thinking maybe I should probably work on not being shy. I've never been married has my shyness played apart in me never have been married probably so but unfortunately I continue to still wait for her.
 
May 26, 2016
545
3
0
#98
As I wrote on another thread, in all my years whenever I saw a marriage that was initiated by the woman, it remained blissful for life and it NEVER ended in divorce.
Oh well I asked a guy to marry me and he said yes. When we broke up it was my fault. You asked me! Lol I'm never gonna ask someone again.
 

peacenik

Senior Member
May 11, 2016
3,071
26
38
#99
Oh well I asked a guy to marry me and he said yes. When we broke up it was my fault. You asked me! Lol I'm never gonna ask someone again.



Well, at least you cannot blame him. ;)