Secret Rapture

[PlainWord]

Judaism is from the pit of hell. It rejects the messiah. and sets up their own works based religion.

Israel is blind in part. I agree.. When their eyes are opened, they will leave Judaism and return to God ..

Both Islam and Judaism are a perverted religion based on Abraham and his descendents.. That is where the likeness comes in.. That and their works based mentality.

Islam is more dangerous, I agree..

Who are the "false god" and "false prophet" of Judaism?

John makes clear that the Harlot religion has a false god and false prophet and that those worshiping this religion were deceived by them.

Rev 18: [SUP]20 [/SUP]Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image.

Sorry, Judaism does not fit. Here are the main reasons Judaism doesn't fit:

1.Among smallest Religion <.5%
2.Not part of a 7 kingdom succession
3.Few peoples/nations worship her
4.Not Similar to former Babylon
5.Not Located in a Wilderness/Desert
6.John did not recognize her
7.No Kings of Earth Fornicate with her
8.Doesn’t Behead People
9.Not Near a busy seaport
10.Few get rich from selling her “goods”
11.Merchants would rejoice at demise
12.Can’t be destroyed as Christ returns
to Jerusalem and reigns from there


Paul instructs us clearly about Islam and the Jews. He compares and contrasts in Gal 4:22-31.


Paul refers to the "Children of Ishmael" as:

1. Sons of the Bondwoman (Captives)
2. Born of Flesh
3. the Desolate
4. In Labor (Pregnant)
5. With many children though no husband

These are all terms and concepts used by both Jesus and John to describe those who follow the Beast

 

[Josefnospam]

The so called "rapture" is not a secret to God's people. He comes as a thief in the Night but we are of the Day,

When he returns that's it. No 2nd chance or a third return latter or any such stuff. He comes back in all his Glory to get and change his elected children and pass final judgement on all the rest who don't know him. Today is the day of Salvation

 

[DP]

Judaism and Islam do not compare though. Islam is from the pit of hell.There is no comparison. Right now the Jews are blinded for our sake. But one day they will,the remnant, believe in their Messiah. Not so with Islam.

But still, don't be deceived by Judaism, for the ones behind that are the "tares" that are misleading the blinded of God's people among them in preparing them to fall away to the coming pseudo-Christ in Jerusalem.

 

[DP]

Who are the "false god" and "false prophet" of Judaism?

John makes clear that the Harlot religion has a false god and false prophet and that those worshiping this religion were deceived by them.

Rev 18: [SUP]20 [/SUP]Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image.

Sorry, Judaism does not fit. Here are the main reasons Judaism doesn't fit:

1.Among smallest Religion <.5%
2.Not part of a 7 kingdom succession
3.Few peoples/nations worship her
4.Not Similar to former Babylon
5.Not Located in a Wilderness/Desert
6.John did not recognize her
7.No Kings of Earth Fornicate with her
8.Doesn’t Behead People
9.Not Near a busy seaport
10.Few get rich from selling her “goods”
11.Merchants would rejoice at demise
12.Can’t be destroyed as Christ returns
to Jerusalem and reigns from there


Paul instructs us clearly about Islam and the Jews. He compares and contrasts in Gal 4:22-31.


Paul refers to the "Children of Ishmael" as:

1. Sons of the Bondwoman (Captives)
2. Born of Flesh
3. the Desolate
4. In Labor (Pregnant)
5. With many children though no husband

These are all terms and concepts used by both Jesus and John to describe those who follow the Beast

Those of the bondwoman do not only apply to the children of Hagar though. That applies to peoples of ALL nations who refuse Christ Jesus, even to unbelieving Jews! (see Luke 23:28-31 where Jesus applied that to the deceived Jews).

The 'desolate' woman in Galatians is about those in the Promise that are of the free woman, not the bondwoman.

Gal 4:26-28
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
KJV

Paul was quoting from Isaiah 54 about the barren and desolate woman, a parable many have not understood. It's in respect to those who remain "a chaste virgin" waiting for Christ's coming, vs. those who don't and instead fall away to the pseudo-Christ (2 Cor.11; Isa.54).

When Jesus comes and He finds you are 'with child', or 'travailing with child', it means you didn't stay "a chaste virgin" waiting on Him. It's all in the spiritual worship sense.

 

[JaumeJ]

Reply to title only, the hook.

???????

Your Thread wins seven interrogatives.

 

[DP]

No doubt Jerusalem's people played the harlot but whose harlot? It was always the harlot faith of those around her. She never originated a false religion. Dig deeper DP.

Can't get any deeper than what our Heavenly Father showed about Jerusalem in Ezekiel 16, when Jerusalem was once a pagan city (Jebus) before He gave king David to conquer it. Well, on second thought, probably could go deeper, as most likely the area of Jerusalem was probably where God's Garden of Eden originally was, because of the comparison of His River flowing out of Eden to feed four other rivers on the earth, and with the Isaiah 19 comparison of Assyria, Israel, and Egypt each being a third in His future eternal Kingdom on earth in conjunction with His River and the Tree of Life placed at Jerusalem again in the Ezekiel 47 layout for the time of Christ's future Millennial reign.

If Judaism, which is the smallest religion on the planet with no kings worshiping her, is the harlot and if Jerusalem is the great city destroyed as we are told here:

[SUP]21 [/SUP]Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, “Thus with violence the great city Babylon shall be thrown down, and shall not be found anymore.

Than how can Jerusalem be standing here?

Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father’s name written on their foreheads.

and here?

[SUP]9 [/SUP]They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.

and here?

‘Now I will bring back the captives of Jacob, and have mercy on the whole house of Israel; and I will be jealous for My holy name—

There isn't going to be anyone left in Babylon once it is thrown down. Here is a passage from Jer 51:

[SUP]49 [/SUP]As Babylon has caused the slain of Israel to fall,
So at Babylon the slain of all the earth shall fall.

Jerusalem isn't causing the slain of Israel to fall, ISLAM is. ISLAM's great city is Mecca which is located in a wilderness. It has kings who will mourn its loss. 1/4 of the world follow ISLAM only 15 million at most follow Judaism. Once you understand this, so many other puzzle pieces fit together. Oh, and which religion beheads? Which people are growing as Tares among the Jews?

Which peoples does Paul compare and contrast with Israel in Gal 4? Which people have been a thorn in the eye of Israel since they entered the Promise Land? Nothing is new under the sun.

The huge mistake you're making is with thinking of the Babylon Harlot in the fleshy carnal sense, when God's Word applies it as a spiritual metaphor for end-time Jerusalem when the coming Antichrist comes there to sit in a rebuilt temple and proclaim himself as God.

You are aware that coming pseudo-Christ will be setup as a king in Jerusalem, don't you? and that ten kings come to power with him for the final "one hour" (tribulation)? (Rev.17: Rev.9:11).

Those events are a lot bigger... than what Islam could do by itself. The nations today have the power to wipe the Islamic nations off the face of the earth if they wanted to. Instead, Satan's servants who control the nations today are using Islam to help bring in their world king, Lucifer, the coming Antichrist. Deceived Islam thinks they are worshiping the true God, not Lucifer.

 

[Markum1972]

Rapture means "caught up" and has been used to define a number of different events described in scripture in which people are "caught up" to Heaven. The word rapture, by definition, could be used to describe any event in which someone was caught up to Heaven. One could even apply the word to someone that has died and gone to Heaven saying that the person was raptured. However, this is not the implicated meaning of the word when it is used as doctrine. Some people may say that this is a very legalistic approach to the word rapture, but understanding the true meaning of a word is as important as knowing the difference in "their" and "there" if you are going to understand the truth of any statement being made using the term.

Knowing the meaning of a word is not legalism. It is called understanding. Yet many people in these days will continue to abandon sound doctrine and the faith. It is written.

Being caught up in or to something indicates a lack of control over the situation by the person that it is happening to. In the rapture doctrine, this is also the case as it is said that no one will know exactly when it will happen. So then if we take these things and apply it to the scriptures, we can look for examples of this based on that. Here are a few scripture that are used to support rapture doctrine. Let's see how they line up:

Luke 17
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

As someone that was taught rapture for almost 30 years, I always thought these scriptures applied. However if you read the scriptures just before this, it becomes clear as to what God's will is.

Luke
31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.

In both of the presented cases, Jesus gives instruction. In neither case would a person that was suddenly caught up to Heaven be able to do the things that Jesus said not to do. If you were suddenly caught up, you would not be able to return to your house. Both of these things are also things that Lot was told. Lot was not "caught up" to Heaven, but instead he escaped certain destruction by being obedient to the messengers that God had sent. So then in this particular case, the people of Sodom were taken and Lot was left behind.

 

[DP]

Rapture means "caught up" and has been used to define a number of different events described in scripture in which people are "caught up" to Heaven. The word rapture, by definition, could be used to describe any event in which someone was caught up to Heaven. One could even apply the word to someone that has died and gone to Heaven saying that the person was raptured. However, this is not the implicated meaning of the word when it is used as doctrine. Some people may say that this is a very legalistic approach to the word rapture, but understanding the true meaning of a word is as important as knowing the difference in "their" and "there" if you are going to understand the truth of any statement being made using the term.

Knowing the meaning of a word is not legalism. It is called understanding. Yet many people in these days will continue to abandon sound doctrine and the faith. It is written.

Being caught up in or to something indicates a lack of control over the situation by the person that it is happening to. In the rapture doctrine, this is also the case as it is said that no one will know exactly when it will happen. So then if we take these things and apply it to the scriptures, we can look for examples of this based on that. Here are a few scripture that are used to support rapture doctrine. Let's see how they line up:

Luke 17
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

As someone that was taught rapture for almost 30 years, I always thought these scriptures applied. However if you read the scriptures just before this, it becomes clear as to what God's will is.

Luke
31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.

In both of the presented cases, Jesus gives instruction. In neither case would a person that was suddenly caught up to Heaven be able to do the things that Jesus said not to do. If you were suddenly caught up, you would not be able to return to your house. Both of these things are also things that Lot was told. Lot was not "caught up" to Heaven, but instead he escaped certain destruction by being obedient to the messengers that God had sent. So then in this particular case, the people of Sodom were taken and Lot was left behind.

But you did not continue... to the last verse where Christ's disciples asked Him, "Where, Lord?" those 'taken' would be taken to:

Luke 17:34-37
34 "I tell you, on that night there will be two men in one bed; one will be taken, and the other will be left.

35 "There will be two women grinding at the same place; one will be taken, and the other will be left.

36["Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other will be left."]

37 And answering they said to Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said to them, "Where the body is, there also will the vultures be gathered."
NAS

Here's the Matt.24 version of Christ's answer:

Matt 24:27-28
28 "Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.
NAS

Result: Those in Christ Jesus DO NOT want to be one of those first ones TAKEN! That's about the deceived and wicked being taken, not us!

 

[Markum1972]

But you did not continue... to the last verse where Christ's disciples asked Him, "Where, Lord?" those 'taken' would be taken to:

Luke 17:34-37
34 "I tell you, on that night there will be two men in one bed; one will be taken, and the other will be left.

35 "There will be two women grinding at the same place; one will be taken, and the other will be left.

36["Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other will be left."]

37 And answering they said to Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said to them, "Where the body is, there also will the vultures be gathered."
NAS

Here's the Matt.24 version of Christ's answer:

Matt 24:27-28
28 "Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.
NAS

Result: Those in Christ Jesus DO NOT want to be one of those first ones TAKEN! That's about the deceived and wicked being taken, not us!

Agreed. They are "taken" just like the people of Sodom. They either do not leave or they return back for their belongings.

I wanted to continue but was trying to keep it short enough that it would be read.

 

[popeye]

Rapture means "caught up" and has been used to define a number of different events described in scripture in which people are "caught up" to Heaven. The word rapture, by definition, could be used to describe any event in which someone was caught up to Heaven. One could even apply the word to someone that has died and gone to Heaven saying that the person was raptured. However, this is not the implicated meaning of the word when it is used as doctrine. Some people may say that this is a very legalistic approach to the word rapture, but understanding the true meaning of a word is as important as knowing the difference in "their" and "there" if you are going to understand the truth of any statement being made using the term.

Knowing the meaning of a word is not legalism. It is called understanding. Yet many people in these days will continue to abandon sound doctrine and the faith. It is written.

Being caught up in or to something indicates a lack of control over the situation by the person that it is happening to. In the rapture doctrine, this is also the case as it is said that no one will know exactly when it will happen. So then if we take these things and apply it to the scriptures, we can look for examples of this based on that. Here are a few scripture that are used to support rapture doctrine. Let's see how they line up:

Luke 17
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

As someone that was taught rapture for almost 30 years, I always thought these scriptures applied. However if you read the scriptures just before this, it becomes clear as to what God's will is.

Luke
31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.

In both of the presented cases, Jesus gives instruction. In neither case would a person that was suddenly caught up to Heaven be able to do the things that Jesus said not to do. If you were suddenly caught up, you would not be able to return to your house. Both of these things are also things that Lot was told. Lot was not "caught up" to Heaven, but instead he escaped certain destruction by being obedient to the messengers that God had sent. So then in this particular case, the people of Sodom were taken and Lot was left behind.

No,nobody that ever died has been described as "caught up"

Lets see,lot and family were the ONLY ONES that left the city,but you need the story to somehow evolve into "therefore lot and family were left behind"

You are blatantly changing Gods word.

You got to be a postrib rapture adherent.
Classic,classic postrib

 

[popeye]

But you did not continue... to the last verse where Christ's disciples asked Him, "Where, Lord?" those 'taken' would be taken to:

Luke 17:34-37
34 "I tell you, on that night there will be two men in one bed; one will be taken, and the other will be left.

35 "There will be two women grinding at the same place; one will be taken, and the other will be left.

36["Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other will be left."]

37 And answering they said to Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said to them, "Where the body is, there also will the vultures be gathered."
NAS

Here's the Matt.24 version of Christ's answer:

Matt 24:27-28
28 "Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.
NAS

Result: Those in Christ Jesus DO NOT want to be one of those first ones TAKEN! That's about the deceived and wicked being taken, not us!

Oh,ok.

Well then,he has every LEGAL RIGHT to twist the story of lot.

The postrib rapture handbook provides for every pesky verse.

 

[popeye]

Agreed. They are "taken" just like the people of Sodom. They either do not leave or they return back for their belongings.

I wanted to continue but was trying to keep it short enough that it would be read.

Neither one of you know your bibles

Jesus himself explains your "wicked taken first nonsense"

It is at the GWTJ.
The "wicked" are gathered at the end of the world AFTER THE MILLINEUM and cast into the lake of fire ,BURNED.

Read mat 13,around vs 39 or so.

Both of you way,way off

 

[PlainWord]

Those of the bondwoman do not only apply to the children of Hagar though. That applies to peoples of ALL nations who refuse Christ Jesus, even to unbelieving Jews! (see Luke 23:28-31 where Jesus applied that to the deceived Jews).

The 'desolate' woman in Galatians is about those in the Promise that are of the free woman, not the bondwoman.

Gal 4:26-28
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
KJV

Paul was quoting from Isaiah 54 about the barren and desolate woman, a parable many have not understood. It's in respect to those who remain "a chaste virgin" waiting for Christ's coming, vs. those who don't and instead fall away to the pseudo-Christ (2 Cor.11; Isa.54).

When Jesus comes and He finds you are 'with child', or 'travailing with child', it means you didn't stay "a chaste virgin" waiting on Him. It's all in the spiritual worship sense.

You didn't answer my question.

Who are the "false god" and "false prophet" of Judaism?

We are told that Mystery Babylon has them. As for Gal 4, I disagree. The desolate is describing the bondwomen and it is clear from the context and proof of reality. Who has more children, Hagar or Sarah? In other words, are there more Muslims or more Jews in the world? The lesson is that the "DESOLATE" has many more children than she with a husband. The husband is God. Paul is referencing Isa 54:5, Jer 31:32, agreed. And there God is called the husband of the Children of Israel. When you worship one other than God, you are "playing the harlot" with a false god, just as the Muslims are doing. God and Allah are not one and the same as many believe. Allah is Satan as John describes in Revelation.

The Children of God are the Jews. The children of Allah are the Muslims if you want to look at it this way. Therefore the Muslims are without the husband, they are the Desolate and they are the ones who take the "mark" and the ones referred to here:

[SUP]10 [/SUP]He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword.

and here:

...whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Since we know that the Desolate are Muslims then Dan 9 and 11 become more clear. The Abomination of Desolation is therefore referring to Muslims. They place the Abomination, it is of them, the desolate. It isn't hard to see that this is the case when you understand what peoples come against Israel in Ezek 38-39.

 

[PlainWord]

The huge mistake you're making is with thinking of the Babylon Harlot in the fleshy carnal sense, when God's Word applies it as a spiritual metaphor for end-time Jerusalem when the coming Antichrist comes there to sit in a rebuilt temple and proclaim himself as God.

The Harlot is of course spiritual. It is the false religion of ISLAM. This is Satan's religion and Satan is none other than Allah. Satan is a murder and the Father of all Murderers. Satan is teaching his people, the Muslims, to hate and kill, those who will not worship him (Allah). It is the opposite of God's message to love thy neighbor. The Harlot as described as Mystery Babylon has to be Islam which fits every clue.

I agree, the Children of Israel have played the harlot with many false gods over the years. They were punished extensively for doing this. While they did not accept their messiah, most still believe in and follow the real God of Heaven, our creator. This stands in stark contrast to what the Muslims are doing.

As for a rebuilt, man-made Jewish temple, there is no clear teaching or prophesy of this. One cannot take Rev 11 and create a new temple. Jesus makes clear the temple (2nd) will be torn down and He will rebuild it in 3 days. From the moment He did that, the temple has become spiritual.

You are aware that coming pseudo-Christ will be setup as a king in Jerusalem, don't you? and that ten kings come to power with him for the final "one hour" (tribulation)? (Rev.17: Rev.9:11).

Ten kings, yes. A pseudo-Christ as King in Jerusalem? Quite possibly. However, this king will be followed by Muslims. He is the King of the North and will enter the Holy Land. Dan 11 teaches this. I personally believe this figure will be the Mahdi. However, the Muslims are also awaiting Jesus. They call Jesus, "Isa."

The Mahdi, according to Islam, will come and rule for 7, 9 or 19 years before the judgment. The Mahdi will rid the world of evil. According to hadiths, the Mahdi's appearance will coincide with the return of Isa. Isa is to assist the Mahdi against the so-called Anti-Christ. Many people have claimed to be this Mahdi in the past. According to Wiki:

• Muhammad is quoted as saying about the Mahdi:

His name will be my name, and his father’s name my father’s name

​

Even if the entire duration of the world’s existence has already been exhausted and only one day is left before Doomsday, Allah will expand that day to such length of time as to accommodate the kingdom of a person from my Ahlul-Bayt who will be called by my name. He will fill out the earth with peace and justice as it will have been full of injustice and tyranny (by then).

I believe Rev 13 is describing what happens in Islam and it sure sounds similar to their beliefs. The Muslims will be instructed to kill anyone who will not join Islam and follow their Mahdi. This I believe is what will happen as described in Rev 13. I do not think Christians or Jews will be fooled, but many others will. Christians and Jews will be hunted and killed, those who will not convert.

 

[DP]

You didn't answer my question.

Who are the "false god" and "false prophet" of Judaism?

We are told that Mystery Babylon has them. As for Gal 4, I disagree. The desolate is describing the bondwomen and it is clear from the context and proof of reality. Who has more children, Hagar or Sarah? In other words, are there more Muslims or more Jews in the world? The lesson is that the "DESOLATE" has many more children than she with a husband. The husband is God. Paul is referencing Isa 54:5, Jer 31:32, agreed. And there God is called the husband of the Children of Israel. When you worship one other than God, you are "playing the harlot" with a false god, just as the Muslims are doing. God and Allah are not one and the same as many believe. Allah is Satan as John describes in Revelation.

I'll get to your question about the false god and false prophet later, and I must assume you're speaking of Revelation and not really Judaism, because those who follow Judaism don't have a clue about that matter.

The desolate idea from Isaiah 54 that Paul was quoting from, you have failed to understand. You instead are reading your own ideas into that.

Isa 54:1-7
54:1 Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the LORD.

How can the woman who's womb is "barren" and "desolate" have more children than the married wife? That's impossible if you think in the natural childbirth sense, so that means it's a parable or a proverb with another meaning.


2 Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;


3 For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.


4 Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more.

This is still about the "barren" and "desolate" woman who sings at this time, pointing to the time of God's Israel manifested Salvation on earth for His Church. She is to expand her tent to make room for the saved Gentiles, i.e., MORE CHILDREN.


5 For thy Maker is thine Husband; the LORD of hosts is His name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall He be called.


6 For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God.



7 For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee.
KJV


This "barren" and "desolate" woman represents those who remain faithful waiting on Christ Jesus. Apostle Paul also used this spiritual metaphor in 2 Cor.11 about presenting us to Christ as "a chaste virgin". It's a spiritual metaphor about staying in Christ vs. falling away to worship the coming Antichrist instead, and thus being found WITH CHILD (spiritually) by being married to the WRONG husband. It means having played the harlot and when Jesus comes you're not found "a chaste virgin".

And when Christ's Salvation comes with His return, those who remained "barren" (like chaste virgins) will inherit His Salvation, which will also include the believing Gentiles, and by that the "barren" woman will have more children than the harlot who married the false Christ and is found travailing with child when Jesus comes.

 

[PlainWord]

The desolate idea from Isaiah 54 that Paul was quoting from, you have failed to understand. You instead are reading your own ideas into that.

Isa 54:1-7
54:1 Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith the LORD.

How can the woman who's womb is "barren" and "desolate" have more children than the married wife? That's impossible if you think in the natural childbirth sense, so that means it's a parable or a proverb with another meaning.

No DP, you are getting this wrong. I had to study it for quite some time before I got it. "Barren" and "desolate" are not describing the same thing, they are opposites. The Barren are the Jews. There are few of them. The Desolate have many children, they are Muslims.

"More are the children of the desolate", see that? "...Then the children of the married wife" which are Jews. This is telling us that the Barren are Jews, they are married, there are few of them. The Desolate are many, they have no husband. The spiritual analogy works like this. A Harlot sleeps with many men and has no husband but has many children. Get it?

I agree Paul is quoting Isaiah. I use the NKJV as it reads easier. I will quote Gal 4 below in blue and add my notes in black. Hopefully this will help. If it does, it will unlock a lot for you.

Two Covenants

[SUP]21 [/SUP]Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? [SUP]22 [/SUP]For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman (Hagar is the bondwoman and she had Ishmael, the father of Muslims), the other by a freewoman (Sarah, who had Isaac who is also called as we know, "Israel."). [SUP]23 [/SUP]But he (Ishmael and by extension - Muslims) who was of the bondwoman (Hagar)was born according to the flesh, and he (Isaac and by extension all Jews) of the freewoman through promise, [SUP]24 [/SUP]which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— [SUP]25 [/SUP]for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, (Mecca is in Saudi Arabia) and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children (the Jews. This means that right now Jerusalem on earth is not free. It is being inhabited by Muslims who have taken over the Temple Mount and placed their symbols of worship there, their temple or mosque, making her a slave to a false religion)— [SUP]26 [/SUP]but the Jerusalem above (Heaven) is free, which is the mother of us all. [SUP]27 [/SUP]For it is written:

“Rejoice, O barren (Jews),
You who do not bear! (Again, Jews)
Break forth and shout, (Jews)
You who are not in labor! (Jews) (remember what Jesus says in Mat 24 about those in labor? He is talking about Muslims)
For the desolate (Muslims) has many more children (indeed Muslims make up 1/4 of the world. This is the part you are getting backwars)
Than she who has a husband.” (Jews)


[SUP]28 [/SUP]Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.(Jews) [SUP]29 [/SUP]But, as he who was born according to the flesh (Ishmael and by extension - Muslims) then persecuted him (Isaac and by extension - the Jews) who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now. (For centuries and apparently even in Paul's day, Muslims are persecuting, i.e. causing tribulation, to the Jews)[SUP]30 [/SUP]Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.”[SUP][f][/SUP] [SUP]31 [/SUP]So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.

 

[DP]

You didn't answer my question.

Who are the "false god" and "false prophet" of Judaism?

Like I said before about the desolate woman of Galatians, Paul is quoting from Isaiah 54 which is about the Faithful who do not fall away to the coming pseudo-Christ, which the unfaithful thus are found playing the harlot and are with child when Jesus comes. You cannot... apply that parable to Islam. It does not... work, and is to take God's Word about that metaphor outside the Biblical context of Isaiah 54. If you really look more closely at the Gal.4:26-28 verses, you'll find Paul is quoting about the desolate woman in relation to the Faithful who inherit the Jerusalem above that is free.

Likewise, with the "abomination of desolation" idea from our Lord Jesus and the Book of Daniel, that is about the placing of an idol inside the temple in Jerusalem that makes the temple SPIRITUALLY DESOLATE. It is about desecration of what is holy and sacred. That also is how God sees His people when they fall away to worship another in His place, but as a harlot found with child, and not as a barren woman who did not stray from her Husband (Christ).

If you keep reading in Isaiah 54, you'll discover God was giving that spiritual metaphor about Jerusalem also.

Isa 54:10-13
10 For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but My kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of My peace be removed, saith the LORD That hath mercy on thee.


11 O thou afflicted, tossed with tempest, and not comforted, behold, I will lay thy stones with fair colours, and lay thy foundations with sapphires.


12 And I will make thy windows of agates, and thy gates of carbuncles, and all thy borders of pleasant stones.


13 And all thy children shall be taught of the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children.
KJV


That part is continuing the proverb of the barren woman in Isaiah 54, but it's specifically about Jerusalem, i.e., the New Jerusalem.

The false god is the coming Antichrist, which our Lord Jesus showed in Matt.24:23-26 will be a pseudo-Christ (Greek pseudochristos) that some will be saying that Christ is here, or there, and our Lord Jesus said for us to not believe it! That means the false god of 2 Thess.2:4 will be claiming to be The Messiah of the Jews!

Paul explained this when he said that "man of sin" will exalt himself over all that is CALLED God, or that is WORSHIPED (2 Thess.2:4). What haven't you understood about that? That's means whatever religion on earth that has the concept of worshiping a god, they will ALL believe he is THE GOD.

Our Lord Jesus was good to those who listen to Him, because He showed us who that false god will be in His Revelation. It will be Lucifer himself, right here on earth, playing GOD. That is what our Lord Jesus showed us with Satan being cast down to this earth with his angels in the last days per Rev.12:7 forward after the war in Heaven against Michael. Our Lord Jesus showed us again in Rev.12 & 13 when He DEFINED who the "dragon" and "that old serpent" is, and THEN applied those terms about the one coming to work great signs and wonders on earth to deceive the whole world, except Christ's elect.

That "another beast" of Rev.13:11 forward is about Satan himself doing those things here on earth, in person. The majority are looking for some flesh born man, as your are, but that is deception away from those things our Lord Jesus showed us in His Revelation, simply because most find that too difficult to believe.

Even in Rev.9, Jesus showed us who the "king" is in the bottomless pit his names of Abaddon and Apollyon (the Destroyer, i.e, Satan), and how that is the one in Rev.17 that ascends up out of the bottomless pit as the 7th beast king which the other ten kings will rule with in the final "one hour" of the tribulation.

Right here our Lord Jesus told you that:

Rev 17:8
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
KJV

Rev 17:10
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
KJV

 

[DP]

No DP, you are getting this wrong. I had to study it for quite some time before I got it. "Barren" and "desolate" are not describing the same thing, they are opposites. The Barren are the Jews. There are few of them. The Desolate have many children, they are Muslims.

"More are the children of the desolate", see that? "...Then the children of the married wife" which are Jews. This is telling us that the Barren are Jews, they are married, there are few of them. The Desolate are many, they have no husband. The spiritual analogy works like this. A Harlot sleeps with many men and has no husband but has many children. Get it?

No, you are misunderstanding that in relation to very next... verses right after Isaiah 54:1 which is about what? It's about the "desolate" and "barren" woman being told to ENLARGE HER TENT to accommodate the believing Gentiles!

Isa 54:2-3
2 Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;


3 For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.
KJV

And to give you even more proof, here's what our Lord Jesus said using that parable of Isaiah 54 about the "barren" woman:

Read this slowly now, and think:

Luke 23:27-30
27 And there followed Him a great company of people, and of women, which also bewailed and lamented Him.


28 But Jesus turning unto them said, "Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for Me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.


29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, "Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck."


30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, "Fall on us"; and to the hills, "Cover us."
KJV



Jesus quoted that Isaiah 54:1 passage to those Jews who wept for Him. So He was definitely... applying that to the Jews in the future also (deceived Jews). It's not in the positive sense for them either, because "they" will be saying that "Blessed are the barren..." about OTHERS than themselves, for they will instead want the "mountains" to fall on them and the "hills" to cover them because of their SHAME (for refusing our Lord Jesus as The Christ).

So right there, our Lord Jesus is saying BLESSED are the barren. And you apply to that Islam being the barren and desolate woman? NO WAY! It's about Christ's FAITHFUL who stand in Him and wait for HIS coming that represent those "barren" that will be BLESSED!

 

[DP]

I agree Paul is quoting Isaiah. I use the NKJV as it reads easier. I will quote Gal 4 below in blue and add my notes in black. Hopefully this will help. If it does, it will unlock a lot for you.

Two Covenants

[SUP]21 [/SUP]Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? [SUP]22 [/SUP]For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman (Hagar is the bondwoman and she had Ishmael, the father of Muslims), the other by a freewoman (Sarah, who had Isaac who is also called as we know, "Israel."). [SUP]23 [/SUP]But he (Ishmael and by extension - Muslims) who was of the bondwoman (Hagar)was born according to the flesh, and he (Isaac and by extension all Jews) of the freewoman through promise, [SUP]24 [/SUP]which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— [SUP]25 [/SUP]for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, (Mecca is in Saudi Arabia) and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children (the Jews. This means that right now Jerusalem on earth is not free. It is being inhabited by Muslims who have taken over the Temple Mount and placed their symbols of worship there, their temple or mosque, making her a slave to a false religion)— [SUP]26 [/SUP]but the Jerusalem above (Heaven) is free, which is the mother of us all. [SUP]27 [/SUP]For it is written:

“Rejoice, O barren (Jews),
You who do not bear! (Again, Jews)
Break forth and shout, (Jews)
You who are not in labor! (Jews) (remember what Jesus says in Mat 24 about those in labor? He is talking about Muslims)
For the desolate (Muslims) has many more children (indeed Muslims make up 1/4 of the world. This is the part you are getting backwars)
Than she who has a husband.” (Jews)


[SUP]28 [/SUP]Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.(Jews) [SUP]29 [/SUP]But, as he who was born according to the flesh (Ishmael and by extension - Muslims) then persecuted him (Isaac and by extension - the Jews) who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now. (For centuries and apparently even in Paul's day, Muslims are persecuting, i.e. causing tribulation, to the Jews)[SUP]30 [/SUP]Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.”[SUP][f][/SUP] [SUP]31 [/SUP]So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.

No need to quote Galatians to me. I understand it perfectly.

And because I understand how God is giving a parable about His Faithful representing the "barren" woman who is BLESSED per Isaiah 54 where Paul was quoting that from, that is why I understand Paul perfectly there in Gal.4:27.

You want some more WARNING from our Lord Jesus about the opposite of the "barren" woman, i.e., of those who "travail with child"?

Luke 21:22-23
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.


23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
KJV



How can that be about literally about pregnant women in that time that wait for our Lord Jesus and believe on Him? I thought His servants were NOT appointed to God's Wrath on the final day? And that's what the timing of that verse is about, "the days of vengeance" from God on the final day of this world when He pours out His cup of wrath upon the wicked on earth.

Is that about the BARREN woman who's paps that never gave suck??? NO! It's about the married woman "with child"!

That's why again, Isaiah 54 says it's the "barren" and "desolate" woman who is BLESSED. And that's who Paul was referring to in Gal.4:27, i.e., Christ's Faithful as the "barren" woman who will be BLESSED.

 

[PlainWord]

This "barren" and "desolate" woman represents those who remain faithful waiting on Christ Jesus. Apostle Paul also used this spiritual metaphor in 2 Cor.11 about presenting us to Christ as "a chaste virgin". It's a spiritual metaphor about staying in Christ vs. falling away to worship the coming Antichrist instead, and thus being found WITH CHILD (spiritually) by being married to the WRONG husband. It means having played the harlot and when Jesus comes you're not found "a chaste virgin".

The Barren are Jews
The Desolate are Muslims

You are combining them into the same but they are not the same. Yes, Barren means without child which virgins are without children. Harlots have many children and many partners. I totally understand the whole chaste virgin concept.

And when Christ's Salvation comes with His return, those who remained "barren" (like chaste virgins) will inherit His Salvation, which will also include the believing Gentiles, and by that the "barren" woman will have more children than the harlot who married the false Christ and is found travailing with child when Jesus comes.

YES, YES, YES. We agree!!

But be clear, the "Desolate" are Muslims. They have many. They are in "labor". Who is Christ warning here?

[SUP]19 [/SUP]But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!

He is speaking of Muslims. They are the ones pregnant and in labor. Notice Jesus' use of the warning word, "Woe?" I believe this is tied directly to the three woes of Revelation. The Jews are living right along side the Palestinians. Both will be affected with the Mahdi attacks Israel.