Secret Rapture

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I think the anger (if that's what it is) is really frustration that us post-tribbers have towards the pre-tribbers because we know that the pre-tribbers are believing the lie. The Pre-tribbers (of which I was one), speaks so often and passionately about this fantasy Pre-Trib Return of Christ which is not taught and is not found in the Bible. Rather, it is completely fabricated by putting together verse that don't go together and they fundamentally don't even understand that Israel is the subject of the Great Tribulation.

Preaching the Pre-Trib doctrine, going on TV and spewing forth this lie and predicting when Christ will return is giving all of us in the Church a bad name. We are all discredited by false predictions.
And yet you and about 5others have the "only truth"

....that the rapture happens after the millennium

Good luck with that one. Or are you all by yourself in your "revelation"
You have never provided us with a link to a ministry with your exclusive views.

You could be the only one on the planet with your revelation
 
My point is still the unabashed snotty attitude of those that believe that any Christian who does not line up with their theology is an apostate of sorts. Thst does speak volumes.
 
Matt.24:36 But of that day and hour....not even the Angels know..

vs'. 40 and 41. 2 in the field, 2 in the mill....one taken, the other left. Sounds like peaceful times. They even still have a job.

42. Watch therefore, for you not what hour.....

If the Angels are to gather the elect (144,000 Jews and Johnny come lately saints who refused the mark) from the four corners, would they not know that day and hour? 'Who are these under the altar? Those who were beheaded for refusing the mark'. Who were the ones clothed in white garments, without number?

But the catching up of the saints that are busy about their everyday lives....punching time clocks, working jobs, not running from the authorities of the antichrist, is a SECRET even to the Angels.
 
you really think that only 144,000 will be saved are you Jehovah's witness?
 
Post trib WHY. It makes no sense. Will God punish the wicked with the just? Will God pour out His anger on those that trust Him?
God doesn't punish the righteous. None of us believe that. Here is what many fail to understand.

1. The Great Tribulation is actually Satan's wrath aimed first at Israel, then at the Church. Rev 12: Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.” Mat 24: [SUP]16 [/SUP]“then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Judea is not the entire planet. Rev 12: [SUP]17 [/SUP]And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. The "Woman" here is Israel, those who keep the commandments are the Church. A study of the use of the word, "Tribulation(s)" shows that 31 of the 32 times it appears in the Bible it is the righteous, usually Jews, being persecuted by the wicked, usually the enemies of Israel. The Bible is Israel-centric.

2. The wrath of God is in response to Satan's Great Tribulation and it is poured out specifically on the Beast and its kingdom. Rev 16: [SUP]10 [/SUP]Then the fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and his kingdom became full of darkness...

3. People fail to recognize that John wrote Revelation using OT spiritual symbols. He did this to protect himself and the 7 churches in Asia Minor (today's Turkey) should the Romans (who were persecuting them) find it. John used the same symbols used by Daniel, Isaiah, Ezekiel, etc. Some of these symbols (like "earth" and "sea" and "mountain") when misunderstood give the impression that the entire planet is going to be put through incredible events of mass death and destruction.

4. Nothing tells us that all the seals, trumpets, and bowls are part of the Great Tribulation. I would argue that only the 4th seal coincides with the GT and the 5th seal shows the results. The 6th seal is the Wrath which is a result.

5. People fail to understand that ISLAM is Mystery Babylon and they will be the ones who do most of the killing. At the 6th Trumpet, God's army kills them because at this point, they will make up 1/3 of the world's population. The 6th trumpet coincides with Joel Chapter 2.

6. The action is in the Middle East. The church is all but destroyed in Muslim nations or it is under severe persecution (Tribulation).

This notion that God strikes the entire planet with the Great Tribulation and therefore has to take the Church to heaven before he does it is absolute baloney.
 
Hi Plainword,

That time period is all God's wrath. It is the fulfillment of the last seven years of prophecy against Israel regarding the seventy seven year periods. The church is not present during this time, but only the great tribulation saints and Israel. Regarding this, I challenge you to find the word "Church" anywhere from chapter 4 onward within the narrative of God's wrath. You won't find it. God's wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments run through the entire seven years and run concurrently with the events and the reign of the beast during that last 3 1/2 years.

The wrath of God is in response to Satan's Great Tribulation and it is poured out specifically on the Beast and its kingdom.

The wrath of God is going to be poured out on a Christ rejecting world, the haughty, the proud, the arrogant, etc. The seals, trumpets and bowls is how God is going to carry out his wrath. Regarding the 4th seal, a fourth of the earth's immediate population will be killed and at the 6th trumpet a third will be killed. Based on the current population of 7 billion people, both of these would be 4.4 billion fatalities. I don't know how you can say that the seals, trumpets and bowls do not make up the wrath of God, when it is so obvious. Also, ISLAM is not Mystery Babylon. Since Jesus is the One opening the seals, he is therefore the one who is initiating God's wrath.

This notion that God strikes the entire planet with the Great Tribulation and therefore has to take the Church to heaven before he does it is absolute baloney.

Well, scripture says that this will be coming upon the entire earth:

"Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.

"Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you suddenly like a trap. For it will come on all those who live on the face of the whole earth. Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.”

"All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world."

The word of God demonstrates that it will be the entire earth and its inhabitants that will be involved, which is exactly why the Lord is going to gather his church before he begins his wrath and that because scripture states that we are not appointed to suffer wrath. Your err in this because you don't understand the severity or magnitude of God's coming wrath. By the time it is over, there will be less than 10% of the population left, which is why Jesus said, "If those days had not been shortened, no one would be left alive on the earth." The wrath that is coming will be in fulfillment of the following prophecy:

[SUP]
[/SUP]"I will sweep away everything from the face of the earth, When I destroy all mankind on the face of the earth, declares the Lord. I will sweep away both man and beast; I will sweep away the birds in the sky and the fish in the sea—and the idols that cause the wicked to stumble. When I destroy all mankind on the face of the earth,” (Zeph.1:2-3)

"I will make man scarcer than pure gold, more rare than the gold of Ophir." (Isa.13:12)

The word of God is clear in that, his wrath will be upon the entire earth.
 
That's not the meaning of the Barren either. VIRGIN = BARREN. It's really simple. You are over-complicating it. The spiritual meaning isn't about deceived or unbelieving Jews. Instead it has a positive meaning. The Barren means that the Woman has remained a virgin spiritually for her husband. She has not been worshiping false gods.

Yeah, the "barren" and "desolate" womb represents the faithful who remain chaste virgins. Easy. But your trying to apply the barren woman to unbelieving Jews is totally wrong, for those reject Christ Jesus and will NOT wait on Him and will instead fall to the false messiah who comes first.

Let's try this. There are two woman in Revelation that John compares and contrasts.

Woman #1 (GOOD, BARREN, VIRGIN, BRIDE, FEW CHILDREN, JEWS)


12 Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth.

The above is ISRAEL and her faith is in God, the Father.

No! It's the Faithful of Christ's Church who's wombs remain "barren" and "desolate" waiting on Christ's coming. You cannot just apply that to all Israel, because of Luke 23:28-30.

Why don't you take some time to actually LOOK at that Luke 23:28-30 Scripture Jesus said to the "Daughters of Jerusalem" instead beating around the bush on this?


Woman #2 (BAD, DESOLATE, PREGNANT, IN LABOR, HARLOT, MANY CHILDREN, NO HUSBAND, although she thinks she has a husband, MUSLIMS, ISLAM)

And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. [SUP]4 [/SUP]The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the filthiness of her fornication. [SUP]5 [/SUP]And on her forehead a name was written:

MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT,
THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS
AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS
OF THE EARTH.

...‘I sit as queen, and am no widow, and will not see sorrow.

You've already LEFT the parable when you apply that "NO HUSBAND" condition to the "married wife", because the deceived in the Isa.54 parable is about the "married wife", i.e., those who do have a husband, but to the wrong one, for they fall to false messiah instead and are married when Jesus comes. That's why they will have LESS children even though married, per the Isa.54 parable. The point in time of the "barren" having more children than the married wife is AFTER Christ's coming and gathering of His Church, because it includes not just faithful Israelites to Christ Jesus, but also faithful Gentiles!

This is WHY the Babylon Harlot says she sits a queen, and not widow, because she is saying she is ALREADY MARRIED.

The rest of your post is mostly your own additions to the parable that are not part of it.
 
Alex Jones is a conspiracy radio show host. His normal topics are the UN and New World Order, etc. So many think that the NWO will usher in a one world gov't whereby we all share a common currency and eventually religion that we must follow under an Anti-Christ or be killed or at least can't buy or sell. I know where they get this from, from Rev 13. But this whole premise is yet another ploy by Satan to disguise what he is really doing just as the Pre-Trib Rapture is a ploy of Satan's to lull the Church to sleep. Let's face it, if you think the Rapture is going to beam you up to Heaven before the Tribulation, then you won't recognize what is happening until it's too late.

If you believe the globalist goal for a "one world government" (their words) and that the orthodox Jews are in danger of falling away to the coming pseudo-Christ is all a lie, then it means you tend to SUPPORT the orthodox unbelieving Jews with their plan to build another temple and start up old covenant worship again.

You need to decide whether you want to be aligned with orthodox Jews, or aligned with Christ's Body, His Church, because there is a sharp dividing line between those who reject Jesus of Nazareth vs. those who believe on Him as The Christ.
 
Post trib WHY. It makes no sense. Will God punish the wicked with the just? Will God pour out His anger on those that trust Him?

So you believe God is not able to protect His Own then, even in the heat of the battle among the wicked. If so, then you've missed how He has done exactly that in the past, and has promised to do it again.
 
Rev. 7:9 ...a great multitude that no man could number.. No I'm not a JW.

I don't know what he's driving at with the JW thing, but the 144,000 represent those sealed by God's sealing in prep for the tribulation. And likewise the "great multitude" which represent believing Gentiles are also sealed by God's seal, shown having come out of great tribulation and washed their robes in the Blood of The Lamb (Jesus).

The whole Rev.7 chapter is about Christ's Church of believing Israelites and believing Gentiles, sealed by God to go through the tribulation.
 
4. Nothing tells us that all the seals, trumpets, and bowls are part of the Great Tribulation. I would argue that only the 4th seal coincides with the GT and the 5th seal shows the results. The 6th seal is the Wrath which is a result.

How can you say that? That kind of thinking doesn't align with our Lord's Revelation at all. Certain of the Seals, Trumpets, and Vials are especially... about the time of "great tribulation" Jesus taught in His Olivet Discourse.

5. People fail to understand that ISLAM is Mystery Babylon and they will be the ones who do most of the killing. At the 6th Trumpet, God's army kills them because at this point, they will make up 1/3 of the world's population. The 6th trumpet coincides with Joel Chapter 2.

No, you fail to understand what the orthodox unbelieving Jews are getting ready to agree to in Jerusalem for the last days. Quit trying to protect your deceived brethren as if they are not deceived.

And although God calls the locust army of Joel 2 His great army He sends among His people in the last days, it is a PUNISHING - DESTROYING army upon God's people governed by Satan's host! It is not about Christ's coming with His great army of saints! That 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe event isn't even Armageddon timing.

6. The action is in the Middle East. The church is all but destroyed in Muslim nations or it is under severe persecution (Tribulation).

That's just what we are seeing TODAY. The time of great tribulation has not started yet. Wars are still going on today, and no "league" in Jerusalem has been made yet to show any real time of peace there per the Dan.11 events.

This notion that God strikes the entire planet with the Great Tribulation and therefore has to take the Church to heaven before he does it is absolute baloney.

I agree, that is a myth, and it was first preached in the Church by John Darby in 1830's Great Britain.
 
Hi Ahwatukee,

That time period is all God's wrath.
Respectfully, no it's not. Read 2 Thes 1 and you will see that the Wrath is in direct response to the persecution/tribulation that has been going on against God's faithful. The Saints at the 5th seal are crying out for vengeance too. Why? Not because God killed them.

It is the fulfillment of the last seven years of prophecy against Israel regarding the seventy seven year periods.

What last 7? Are you speaking of Dan 9? Do you see any where there's a gap of 2000 + years taught? Was there a gap between the first 7 weeks of years and the 62 weeks of years? Of course not. There was no gap for the 70th week either. The teaching is that the 70th week began when Christ began His ministry. It was cut short, half way through when He was crucified. So even though 70 weeks were determined, only 69.5 happened because Christ wasn't allowed to finish.

The church is not present during this time, but only the great tribulation saints and Israel.

There is no teaching of this. Please show me any passage that clearly states this. You are speculating my friend.

Regarding this, I challenge you to find the word "Church" anywhere from chapter 4 onward within the narrative of God's wrath

The absence of the word, "Church" does not prove a rapture. The church is mentioned plenty after chapter 4 if you understand the symbols. The two witnesses are the two churches of the east and west mentioned in Rev 11. They are here and clearly under attack. Those who keep the commandments of Jesus in Rev 12 is also the Church. "Here is the patience and faith of the saints" in Rev 13 is also the church. "Come out of her my people", in Rev 18 is also the church.

God's wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments run through the entire seven years and run concurrently with the events and the reign of the beast during that last 3 1/2 years.

Again, with respect, this is untaught speculation. If you believe this then you are saying that God killed the saints at the 5th seal and they are asking God to avenge Himself. The truth is the GT is only the 4th seal. The wrath is the 6th seal, 6th trumpet and all bowls. The bowls are poured out in rapid succession and most of them are spiritual.

Regarding the 4th seal, a fourth of the earth's immediate population will be killed

It doesn't say that 1/4 of the earth is killed. It says "power is granted over 1/4 of the earth to kill..." To me this means, Muslims, which control 1/4 of the world will start killing inside the areas they control. They are doing so now.

At the 6th trumpet, all Muslims will be killed by God's army. Yes, it will be a big number. God's army is 200 million strong. This battle is told better in Joel 2.

Well, scripture says that this will be coming upon the entire earth:

"Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.

This applied to the church in Philadelphia, the only one of the seven to not endure the hardships of the other 6.

"Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you suddenly like a trap. For it will come on all those who live on the face of the whole earth. Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.”

This is the second coming, after the GT.

"All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world."

This "earth" was defined in Rev 13 to coincide with Dan 7 and applies to areas only under Muslim control. It is NOT the whole planet.

"I will sweep away everything from the face of the earth, When I destroy all mankind on the face of the earth, declares the Lord. I will sweep away both man and beast; I will sweep away the birds in the sky and the fish in the sea—and the idols that cause the wicked to stumble. When I destroy all mankind on the face of the earth,” (Zeph.1:2-3)

Again, this applies to only the Muslim world, the ones following the Beast and her harlot religion, Islam.

Obviously there will be plenty of mankind still on the planet or there would be none to gather and worship or nations to rule with a rod of iron. Please study Biblical symbolism my friend. It is really important.
 
Hi Ahwatukee,

Again, with respect, this is untaught speculation. If you believe this then you are saying that God killed the saints at the 5th seal and they are asking God to avenge Himself. The truth is the GT is only the 4th seal. The wrath is the 6th seal, 6th trumpet and all bowls. The bowls are poured out in rapid succession and most of them are spiritual.

Your doing it again. Only the 6th Seal contains events about the "day of the Lord" when God's wrath comes upon the wicked. The 6th trumpet and 6th vial does not contain that, but instead is the time of tribulation with the beast reign on earth.

It doesn't say that 1/4 of the earth is killed. It says "power is granted over 1/4 of the earth to kill..." To me this means, Muslims, which control 1/4 of the world will start killing inside the areas they control. They are doing so now.

At the 6th trumpet, all Muslims will be killed by God's army. Yes, it will be a big number. God's army is 200 million strong. This battle is told better in Joel 2.

It doesn't mean what you're thinking either.

In Joel 2 God calls the locust army His army that He sent among His people, to do what? To strip the bark off their tree, leaving it white and bare (see Joel 1). In Joel 2:25 God is saying in final, He is going to return to His people what that locust army stripped from them.

Haven't you read Isaiah 10 where God called the Assyrian "the rod of Mine anger"? God is even in control of what Satan does, and will use Satan as a punishing rod upon the rebellious of His people! That's what the locust army of Rev.9 is, a punishing rod upon the rebellious for the tribulation timing.

Rev.9 with the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe is about the time of Satan's release upon the earth with his angels, which is tribulation timing, not Armageddon timing. Your interpreting that instead like Hal Lindsay did in his book "Late Great Planet Earth", which is a false idea used to support the pre-trib rapture theory. So you're actually aligning with the pre-trib rapture theory with how you're interpreting those Rev.9 events.
 
Your doing it again. Only the 6th Seal contains events about the "day of the Lord" when God's wrath comes upon the wicked.

Really DP? So, what would you call a fourth of the inhabitants of the earth being killed at the 4th seal? Before you answer, remember, that it is Jesus who is opening the seals, which lead into the trumpets, which lead into the bowl judgments, all three sets of seven being God's wrath. You think that just because the announcement is made at the 6th seal that "their wrath has come" that it doesn't include the previous seals as well? How short sighted. By the way, the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments all belong to the day of the Lord.
 
Really DP? So, what would you call a fourth of the inhabitants of the earth being killed at the 4th seal? Before you answer, remember, that it is Jesus who is opening the seals, which lead into the trumpets, which lead into the bowl judgments, all three sets of seven being God's wrath. You think that just because the announcement is made at the 6th seal that "their wrath has come" that it doesn't include the previous seals as well? How short sighted. By the way, the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments all belong to the day of the Lord.

No need for your arrogance in thinking you understand the flow of our Lord's Book of Revelation, because you've well shown you don't know with trying to move the rapture and the "day of the Lord" event backwards in the timeline events for the end.

The 4th Seal

Rev 6:7-8
7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.


8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
KJV

If those 4 things were meant as symbols, since Jesus showed John the events using many symbols and metaphors about the end, especially with the locusts in Rev.9, then how would those 4 things be understood as for HOW Satan gets control over the world at the end?

"with sword" = military powers

"with hunger" = control of world commerce

"with death" = religious, SPIRITUAL death, which is MUCH worse than flesh death, death to one's soul in false worship

"with the beasts of the earth" = political controls, Satan's workers on earth as the "brute beasts"(2 Pet.2:12; Jude 1:10)

Christ's parallel in His Olivet Discourse:

Matt 24:6-8
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
KJV
 
Really DP? So, what would you call a fourth of the inhabitants of the earth being killed at the 4th seal? Before you answer, remember, that it is Jesus who is opening the seals, which lead into the trumpets, which lead into the bowl judgments, all three sets of seven being God's wrath. You think that just because the announcement is made at the 6th seal that "their wrath has come" that it doesn't include the previous seals as well? How short sighted. By the way, the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments all belong to the day of the Lord.

Now then, if we're talking about Scripture pointing out the particular DAY of God's cup of wrath poured out upon the wicked, also called "the day of the Lord" by God's OT prophets and by Paul and Peter, burning man's works off the earth like Peter said in 2 Pet.3:10, then those Revelation Scripture events are covered within the 7th Trumpet, 7th Vial, and 6th Seal.
 
So you believe God is not able to protect His Own then,

Why then was most prophets killed, even Jesus?
who said if they persecute me, they will also persecute us.

From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar
and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.

4 And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body,
and after that have no more that they can do.

5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed
hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

Matthew 23:31 (KJV)
Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children
of them which killed the prophets.


Mark 10:34 (KJV)
And they shall mock him, and shall scourge him, and shall spit upon him,
and shall kill him: and the third day he shall rise again.

Acts 3:15 (KJV)
And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead;
whereof we are witnesses.

Psalms 44:22 (KJV)
Yea, for thy sake are we killed all the day long;
we are counted as sheep for the slaughter.

Matthew 24:9 (KJV)
Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you:
and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

Romans 8:36 (KJV)
As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Romans 11:3 (KJV)
Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars;
and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

Matthew 23:34 (KJV)
Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes:
and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye
scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
 
The Locusts of Revelation 9 - Detail Given in Book of Joel

Joel 1:2-7
2 Hear this, ye old men, and give ear, all ye inhabitants of the land. Hath this been in your days, or even in the days of your fathers?
3 Tell ye your children of it, and let your children tell their children, and their children another generation.

God asks if this event has happened yet, and tell your children, and your children's children about it until the generation comes that it will happen to.


4 That which the palmerworm hath left hath the locust eaten; and that which the locust hath left hath the cankerworm eaten; and that which the cankerworm hath left hath the caterpiller eaten.

Four different species of locusts are the intent there. What one type doesn't eat, the next type takes over, and then the next type, and then the next type. It represents a complete consumption. But God is only using those locusts to represent something else which He reveals in verse 6 below.


5 Awake, ye drunkards, and weep; and howl, all ye drinkers of wine, because of the new wine; for it is cut off from your mouth.
6 For a nation is come up upon My land, strong, and without number, whose teeth are the teeth of a lion, and he hath the cheek teeth of a great lion.
7 He hath laid my vine waste, and barked my fig tree: he hath made it clean bare, and cast it away; the branches thereof are made white.
KJV

In Rev.9 we were shown the locusts there having the teeth of lions. This is where our Lord Jesus was pulling that symbol from. It's not about real natural locusts, it's about A NATION, a certain people at the end. And they symbolically lay the vine of God's people to waste, remove the bark off their fig tree making it clean bare, and make its branches white. Even the "new wine" is cut off from God's people by those locusts which represent a certain people, a NATION.

How does that apply in reality for the end upon God's people?

What did Jesus mean that you don't put 'new wine' into old bottles lest they break? The "new wine" represents an understanding in God's Word that one must put in new bottles (or new wine skins) so that It has room to expand. That is cut off for the majority by these locusts at the end, and it's even shown by how men's doctrines today plant confusion into the mind so as to get even this simple locust symbol God uses with their instead thinking it's about literal locust monsters, or military helicopters for the end.

Joel 1:10-16
10 The field is wasted, the land mourneth; for the corn is wasted: the new wine is dried up, the oil languisheth.
11 Be ye ashamed, O ye husbandmen; howl, O ye vinedressers, for the wheat and for the barley; because the harvest of the field is perished.
12 The vine is dried up, and the fig tree languisheth; the pomegranate tree, the palm tree also, and the apple tree, even all the trees of the field, are withered: because joy is withered away from the sons of men.

This is not simply about the nation state of Israel either. God's people today make up both God's concept of spiritual Israel, and the seed of Israel, of which both are scattered among all nations today. So is this happening upon all nations today by these locust controls over the earth? You bet it is. It's about literal takeover of the whole world by this certain people God calls "a nation". (If you don't understand how God's land includes the historical western Christian nations and their allied Christian territories in other parts of the world, then you've got a lot of Bible history to catch up on.)


13 Gird yourselves, and lament, ye priests: howl, ye ministers of the altar: come, lie all night in sackcloth, ye ministers of my God: for the meat offering and the drink offering is withholden from the house of your God.
14 Sanctify ye a fast, call a solemn assembly, gather the elders and all the inhabitants of the land into the house of the LORD your God, and cry unto the LORD,

The Scripture is saying basically to pray... to God about this sad situation upon His people.


15 Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.
16 Is not the meat cut off before our eyes, yea, joy and gladness from the house of our God?
KJV



Just to let us know what timing this is for, the "day of the Lord" is what will END this sad state of the locusts upon His people. The above destruction so far here is by those locusts first, then comes the "day of the Lord" destruction by God's Hand on the final day of this world.

Joel 2:1-10
2:1 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in My holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;

The day of the Lord has not come yet at this point in the Scripture. God is only warning that it is soon to come at this point. He's going to describe more detail of what the locusts are going to do first before the "day of the Lord" comes upon them.


2 A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.

There's those locusts again, as "a great people and a strong" this time. So it's not about real locusts, it's about a certain people on the earth working against God's people like how real locusts do, stripping us of our resources and wealth blessings from The LORD. It aligns with the time in Daniel when we were told about the power of the holy people being overcome by the wicked in the last days.


3 A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.

They reap the wealth and control over God's people like a fire entering into a land paradise that leaves it like a desert when they've left.


4 The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run.

Here's another one of the Rev.9 symbols our Lord used for this locust army. They're like horsemen running to battle.


5 Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array.

Here's more of the Rev.9 metaphors our Lord Jesus used for the locust army. It doesn't mean these locusts are literal military armies. It means that's how complete they work and get control over God's people at the end, and over all their wealth. This is about the world globalist controllers of today, joining together to get control over all nation's governments and wealth.


6 Before their face the people shall be much pained: all faces shall gather blackness.
7 They shall run like mighty men; they shall climb the wall like men of war; and they shall march every one on his ways, and they shall not break their ranks:

The idea here, nothing can stop them, except our Lord Jesus Himself, when He comes. Their control over all peoples and nations will be a complete control.


8 Neither shall one thrust another; they shall walk every one in his path: and when they fall upon the sword, they shall not be wounded.

There is how we know the locust army is NOT about a literal military army. When a real soldier falls upon a sword it DOES wound them. So you know by their not being wounded that means this is not about a literal military army. God is only using the idea of how an army works, taking by force, for HOW these locusts work upon His people for the end.


9 They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief.

What enters your home's windows like a thief? All the garbage ideas coming from the world controllers who try to brainwash you and your family. TV, media, music, magazines, all those kind of things they use to push their propaganda against Christ and His people.


10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:
11 And the LORD shall utter His voice before His army: for His camp is very great: for He is strong that executeth His word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?
KJV


When this happens, it means Christ Jesus coming with His great army to defeat this locust army, on "the day of the Lord", the final day of this world. Don't confuse Christ's army with the locust working, for the locust working is prior... to that "day of the Lord" timing on the final day when our Lord Jesus returns.

Joel 2:17-21
17 Let the priests, the ministers of the LORD, weep between the porch and the altar, and let them say, "Spare Thy people, O LORD, and give not Thine heritage to reproach, that the heathen should rule over them: wherefore should they say among the people, 'Where is their God?'"

When the locusts get total control, this is especially what we should be praying, asking our Heavenly Father and His Son to save us.



18 Then will the LORD be jealous for His land, and pity His people.

19 Yea, the LORD will answer and say unto His people, "Behold, I will send you corn, and wine, and oil, and ye shall be satisfied therewith: and I will no more make you a reproach among the heathen:
20 But I will remove far off from you the northern army, and will drive him into a land barren and desolate, with his face toward the east sea, and his hinder part toward the utmost sea, and his stink shall come up, and his ill savour shall come up, because he hath done great things.
21 Fear not, O land; be glad and rejoice: for the LORD will do great things.
KJV


If you studied the Book of Ezekiel, then you should know who that "northern army" represents, and what timing that is for. It's about the final battle of Armageddon. God gave us a list of nations involved in that "northern army" that comes upon Israel for the last day of this world when Christ will step in and destroy that northern army coming out of the northern quarters (see Ezek.38 & 39).

Joel 2:24-27
24 And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the fats shall overflow with wine and oil.
25 And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, My great army which I sent among you.
26 And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the LORD your God, That hath dealt wondrously with you: and My people shall never be ashamed.
27 And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and My people shall never be ashamed.
KJV

In that 25th verse, God calls the locust army, "My great army which I sent among you". He says He will restore to His people what they ate up. The big lesson in that is, that God is even in control of that locust army He sends upon the earth in the last days over His people to steal their wealth and blessings and subdue. It is not Christ's army from Heaven that some here have it confused with. That locust army has Satan as its commander in chief, with God only using it for the end.

When all that from Joel is put together when studying Rev.9 more closely, the theme is NOT all out chaos and literal war by a military army. It's about a certain NATION, a certain people on this earth taking control over all nations and peoples on the earth, including their wealth and resources. It's about the beast kingdom working of Rev.13 when the "dragon" is given power over God's people, and over all nations for 42 months (tribulation time). This is why Christ showed us in Rev.9 that the locusts are not allowed to hurt any green thing on earth, but only sting those NOT sealed for five months. And then even when the 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe period comes, their working is LIKE an army, but their power is in their 'mouths', meaning the killing they will do is BY what comes out of their MOUTHS. And what is that friends? It's WORDS that cause deception, and to the destroying of one's soul, because that is about the tribulation time which is to be one of the worse times in man's history on the earth of falling away to false worship of the coming false messiah/Antichrist.