Secret Rapture
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Hi Popeye,
I know without a doubt who Mystery Babylon is and who I believe the false prophet is going to be and why. God gave us the clues in his word to understand who she is and they are obvious. But the way things are today, it seems as though the obvious is neglected.
Of course John's writing was divinely inspired. But that doesn't mean God didn't allow him or give him words to write to protect him. After all, he was in Roman custody at the time. If you don't think John wrote in Apocalyptic literally style using OT symbols then you don't understand Revelation and it will remain a mystery to you.
Didn't say he was quoting OT scripture. I said he was using OT symbols to disguise the true meaning from non-believers. Believers, who know the Bible and understand what Biblical symbols means, will understand.
Example: BEAST: John uses the same word "Beast" as Daniel did in Dan 7 to describe certain world kingdoms.
Example: MOUNTAIN: Religion, faith, Isa 2:2-4
Example: WATERS: Multitudes of people, Isa 17:13, Jer 10:13, 46:8, 51:66, Rev 17:15
Example: SEA: Restless masses of society, usually unruly and lawless people, Isa 57:20, 60:5
Example: HAIL: Hard truth from God, Isa 28:16-17
Example: FIRE: Anger, often divine anger, destruction, trouble Zep 3:8, Jer 5:14
Example: RAIN: Blessings or judgments from God (good or bad), Jer 3:3, Zech 14:17-18, Joel 2:23
Example: SHIP: A refuge or safe place, a sanctuary or church
Example: BLOOD: Salvation, redemption, forgiveness of sins, spiritual life or death. Throughout the OT and NT, 1 Jhn 1:7
These are just some of the OT symbols in use by John in Revelation. It's sad that you don't understand this because if you don't recognize these symbols in Revelation, you will NEVER understand the true meaning. Let me put this together for you using this passage:
Rev 8:8: Then the second angel sounded: And something like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea, and a third of the sea became blood. [SUP]9 [/SUP]And a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.
You reads this and see a literal mountain or meteor burning with literal fire as it passes through the atmosphere then slamming into the ocean and turning the ocean or sea literally into blood killing 1/3 of the fishes and destroying 1/3 of the ships.
I read the above and see this:
Rev 8:8: Then the second angel sounded: And a great false religion burning with destruction was thrown into society, and a third of the society became spiritually dead. [SUP]9 [/SUP]And a third of the people in the society died spiritually, and a third of the churches were destroyed.
As for John not quoting OT scripture, he doesn't quote it, but he definitely refers to it and further defines it. The passage above, the 2nd trumpet comes right out of the OT and proves my interpretation.
Jer 51:
[SUP]25 [/SUP]“Behold, I am against you, O destroying mountain, Who destroys all the earth,” says the Lord. “And I will stretch out My hand against you, Roll you down from the rocks, And make you a burnt mountain. [SUP]26 [/SUP]They shall not take from you a stone for a corner Nor a stone for a foundation, But you shall be desolate forever,” says the Lord.[SUP]27 [/SUP]Set up a banner in the land, Blow the trumpet among the nations! Prepare the nations against her..
In the above context, God is discussing ancient Babylon, which today is Daughter Babylon or Islam.
You are misquoting me. I never said God pours His wrath upon the church. I said God pours His wrath out upon the Beast and the Beast's throne/kingdom. I said the Church is pretty much wiped out by the time this happens. There will be very few Christians left in the ISLAMIC part of the world where the wrath is poured. Those Christians who are there are warned to leave.
John warns them in Rev 18: [SUP]4 [/SUP]And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For her sins have reached to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.
The same warning is given by Jeremiah and John is clearly referencing this warning above.
Jer 51: [SUP]45 [/SUP]“My people, go out of the midst of her! And let everyone deliver himself from the fierce anger of the Lord.
Notice the Christians aren't raptured to avoid God's Wrath, they are told to leave TO DELIVER THEMSELVES!!
What does this have to do with anything???? Who cares if the word "church" isn't used from Chapter 4-18? This doesn't mean the Church has been raptured off the planet. Good grief!! What a monumental leap of false conclusions.
But, I will take your challenge as actually, the church is mentioned quite a bit in Rev 4-18, you just don't recognize the symbolism. Here are some of the places the Church is discussed:
Rev 11: [SUP]4 [/SUP]These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth.
We are told in Rev 1 that Lampstands are Churches.
...the seven lampstands which you saw are the seven churches.
If a lampstand is a church in Rev 1 then it is also a church in Rev 11. Here is another place the church is referenced:
#1: Rev 12: [SUP]17 [/SUP]And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Just who do you think keeps the commandments of God and has the testimony of Jesus? This is also the Church, here on earth when the Beast is in power.
Rev 13: Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
and again here:
Rev 14:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’”
and as I mentioned, here in Rev 18:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues.
Of course God shortens those days (the Great Tribulation). We agree on that. But we disagree on what the Great Tribulation is and who is behind it. It is Satan behind the Great Tribulation. It is Satan persecuting and killing God's Saints. Do a word study on "Tribulation(s)" in the Bible. It is used 32 times (NKJV). In 31 of those times it is the wicked persecuting the righteous. The only time it's God giving Tribulation is in 2 Thes 1 when God is REPAYING which is His wrath.
It is Satan's Abomination of Desolation which triggers Satan going on a killing spree. God's wrath comes after and is in direct response.
I am saddened my friend that you either cannot or will not understand Biblical symbolism used extensively by the OT prophets and by John in Revelation. You are missing so much. What a shame!!
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You are both wrong. Mystery Babylon is ISLAM. There is absolutely no doubt about this, or at least there shouldn't be. It's the pink elephant in the room!!
Revelation 19:20
Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.
What religion has a false prophet?? Ever hear of Muhammad?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]I will turn you around, put hooks into your jaws, and lead you out, with all your army, horses, and horsemen, all splendidly clothed, a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords. [SUP]5 [/SUP]Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya are with them, all of them with shield and helmet;
What is the religion of the people of Persia, Ethiopia and Libya?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast..
Is Mecca in the Wilderness?
Isa 13: The burden against Babylon which Isaiah the son of Amoz saw. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Therefore I will shake the heavens,
And the earth will move out of her place, In the wrath of the Lord of hosts And in the day of His fierce anger...[SUP]20 [/SUP]It will never be inhabited, Nor will it be settled from generation to generation; Nor will the Arabian pitch tents there...
Where do Arabians live and what is their religion?
Rev 6: [SUP]8 [/SUP]So I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him. And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth...
Which religion makes up 1/4 of the population?
Rev 20: Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image..
Which religion beheads those who won't convert?
Rev 17: [SUP]18 [/SUP]And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth.”
Which religion has a bunch of kings following it?
Rev 12: [SUP]17 [/SUP]And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Which religion is waging war against Israel and Christianity?
Common people, it isn't that hard to figure out. FYI, Jerusalem is still standing when the Lord returns.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
no, your wrong, Islam is nothing more than a cheap form of judaism..
You poor people who are so afraid of Islam. who will not even fight another country wiht armies.. They have to talk people into killing themselves for ALLAH maybe take a few people with them.
News flash. If all the major countries of the world united, Islam would be wiped off the earth in days..
You are a lost cause my friend.
It isn't what ISLAM is now, it's what it will be and is becoming and as we see from Rev 13, nobody is going to stop it until the end.
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In Ezekiel 16, God compares Jerusalem in a false worship state to a harlot. God showed there of how He took Jerusalem and spread His skirt over her when she was torn, bloody, and in a barren state originally as the pagan city of Jebus.
Per OT Scripture, when you spread your skirt over a woman, it means consumating marriage. After that God tells how she played the harlot with her pagan lovers, falling away from Him.
In the Revelation 17 example, the Babylon Harlot is a "city" per the final verse:
Rev 17:15-18
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
KJV
Rev.17:4 shows us the woman arrayed in purple and scarlet, symbolic colors of royalty, suggesting she is a queen. In Rev.18:7 we're given more of that royal description about her, as she pridefully says, "I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow."
That royal description and show of pride by the Babylon Harlot of Revelation is an opposite of Jerusalem's earlier historical fallen condition back in Lamentations, and surely you folks know what it means to lament (grieve in sorrow):
Lam 1:1-2
1:1 How doth the city sit solitary, that was full of people how is she become as a widow she that was was great among the nations, and princess among the provinces, how is she become tributary
2 She weepeth sore in the night, and her tears are on her cheeks: among all her lovers she hath none to comfort her: all her friends have dealt treacherously with her, they are become her enemies.
KJV
THAT... Rev.17 & 18 description about her exalted state of royalty and sitting a queen and not a widow point to the Jerusalem of Lamentations, just in opposite condition for the end. It points to her being married at the end, but married to whom? Not God, nor Christ, because who is to appear there in Jerusalem for the future tribulation, sitting in the temple of God to proclaim himself as God, and demanding to be worshiped as God?
That is the same "great city" which we were shown earlier in Revelation involving God's two witnesses:
Rev 11:8
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
KJV
This woman, Babylon Harlot, sits over the nations ("waters" of Rev.17). That means as a controlling international city over all the nations and peoples of the world during the tribulation time. So that's about the political structure of that future time, Jerusalem being the epi-center of the beast kingdom. If you don't already know the joint plan by globalists and orthodox Jews to make Jerusalem the International City of Peace for all nations, and plans to move the U.N. headquarters to Jerusalem in the near future, then you're way behind with reality.
Per OT Scripture, when you spread your skirt over a woman, it means consumating marriage. After that God tells how she played the harlot with her pagan lovers, falling away from Him.
In the Revelation 17 example, the Babylon Harlot is a "city" per the final verse:
Rev 17:15-18
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
KJV
Rev.17:4 shows us the woman arrayed in purple and scarlet, symbolic colors of royalty, suggesting she is a queen. In Rev.18:7 we're given more of that royal description about her, as she pridefully says, "I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow."
That royal description and show of pride by the Babylon Harlot of Revelation is an opposite of Jerusalem's earlier historical fallen condition back in Lamentations, and surely you folks know what it means to lament (grieve in sorrow):
Lam 1:1-2
1:1 How doth the city sit solitary, that was full of people how is she become as a widow she that was was great among the nations, and princess among the provinces, how is she become tributary
2 She weepeth sore in the night, and her tears are on her cheeks: among all her lovers she hath none to comfort her: all her friends have dealt treacherously with her, they are become her enemies.
KJV
THAT... Rev.17 & 18 description about her exalted state of royalty and sitting a queen and not a widow point to the Jerusalem of Lamentations, just in opposite condition for the end. It points to her being married at the end, but married to whom? Not God, nor Christ, because who is to appear there in Jerusalem for the future tribulation, sitting in the temple of God to proclaim himself as God, and demanding to be worshiped as God?
That is the same "great city" which we were shown earlier in Revelation involving God's two witnesses:
Rev 11:8
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
KJV
This woman, Babylon Harlot, sits over the nations ("waters" of Rev.17). That means as a controlling international city over all the nations and peoples of the world during the tribulation time. So that's about the political structure of that future time, Jerusalem being the epi-center of the beast kingdom. If you don't already know the joint plan by globalists and orthodox Jews to make Jerusalem the International City of Peace for all nations, and plans to move the U.N. headquarters to Jerusalem in the near future, then you're way behind with reality.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
And you should not be in a public christian chat room telling anyone what they believe.
P
popeye
Guest
No doubt Jerusalem's people played the harlot but whose harlot? It was always the harlot faith of those around her. She never originated a false religion. Dig deeper DP.
If Judaism, which is the smallest religion on the planet with no kings worshiping her, is the harlot and if Jerusalem is the great city destroyed as we are told here:
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, “Thus with violence the great city Babylon shall be thrown down, and shall not be found anymore.
Than how can Jerusalem be standing here?
Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having[SUP]https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+14&version=NKJV#fen-NKJV-30928b[/SUP] His Father’s name written on their foreheads.
and here?
[SUP]9 [/SUP]They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.
and here?
‘Now I will bring back the captives of Jacob, and have mercy on the whole house of Israel; and I will be jealous for My holy name—
There isn't going to be anyone left in Babylon once it is thrown down. Here is a passage from Jer 51:
[SUP]49 [/SUP]As Babylon has caused the slain of Israel to fall,
So at Babylon the slain of all the earth shall fall.
Jerusalem isn't causing the slain of Israel to fall, ISLAM is. ISLAM's great city is Mecca which is located in a wilderness. It has kings who will mourn its loss. 1/4 of the world follow ISLAM only 15 million at most follow Judaism. Once you understand this, so many other puzzle pieces fit together. Oh, and which religion beheads? Which people are growing as Tares among the Jews?
Which peoples does Paul compare and contrast with Israel in Gal 4? Which people have been a thorn in the eye of Israel since they entered the Promise Land? Nothing is new under the sun.
Not telling, suggesting and making arguments my friend. Just trying to help. You believe wrongly as you wish. One day you may figure it out but only if you are willing to open your mind and consider that maybe you have it wrong.
K
kaylagrl
Guest
Quote "no, your wrong, Islam is nothing more than a cheap form of judaism.. "
Sorry have to disagree with you on this one. Islam is a demonic religion. Muhammad plagiarized Judaism and started Islam.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Judaism is no walk in the park.
Both islam and Judaism are single God religions.
Both teach a works based gospel.
I am amazed that so many people refuse to see ISLAM as the Mystery Babylon, the Great Harlot, considering that it fits every single clue given. I think the reason people are fooled is they are expecting something else. They are thinking some "AntiChrist" figure will appear and begin some new global religion and force the entire planet to worship him and that this happens after the Rapture so they don't expect to see this religion. Thinking on both of these views is false and not taught in the Bible.
We are told that a BEAST kingdom, the 7th in a succession of kingdoms which enslaved and/or persecuted Israel will arise and they will worship a false god which has a false prophet. This kingdom will receive a mortal wound then "be healed" or come back. This is exactly what's happening. People want to discount Muslims as a rag tag group that couldn't pose a threat to the world. They fail to understand history and just how dominate the Ottoman Empire was for centuries and that it was opposed to Israel and Christians alike and even it's remnant sided with Hitler.
These are the top 20 clues of Mystery Babylon. ISLAM fits every last one of them. It's the only faith which does. When we have a global faith that fits all clues, we should consider it carefully and not look for something else.
1.Supported by a succession of 7 (separate) World Powers throughout history
2.“Sits on”/Supported by - evil 8th Satanic Empire related to the previous 7.
3.Biggest (or oldest) False Religion on earth or both
4.Many peoples from many nations worship her
5.All nations deceived by her sorcery
6.Is also a “Great City”
7.Insults true God
8.Similar to former (original) Babylon
9.Located in a Wilderness/Desert
10.John did not seem to recognize her or her location
11.Kings of Earth fornicate (worship with) or serve her
12.Makes war with the Lamb
13.Kills Saints and Prophets
14.Beheads those who won’t convert
15.Near a busy sea (shipping) lane
16.Ships became rich from selling her “goods”
17.Merchants of the Earth weep at her demise
18.They mourn by throwing dust on their heads
19.Will be attacked and destroyed by the 8th Kingdom who carries her
20.Will be utterly burned with fire (nuked?)
We are told that a BEAST kingdom, the 7th in a succession of kingdoms which enslaved and/or persecuted Israel will arise and they will worship a false god which has a false prophet. This kingdom will receive a mortal wound then "be healed" or come back. This is exactly what's happening. People want to discount Muslims as a rag tag group that couldn't pose a threat to the world. They fail to understand history and just how dominate the Ottoman Empire was for centuries and that it was opposed to Israel and Christians alike and even it's remnant sided with Hitler.
These are the top 20 clues of Mystery Babylon. ISLAM fits every last one of them. It's the only faith which does. When we have a global faith that fits all clues, we should consider it carefully and not look for something else.
1.Supported by a succession of 7 (separate) World Powers throughout history
2.“Sits on”/Supported by - evil 8th Satanic Empire related to the previous 7.
3.Biggest (or oldest) False Religion on earth or both
4.Many peoples from many nations worship her
5.All nations deceived by her sorcery
6.Is also a “Great City”
7.Insults true God
8.Similar to former (original) Babylon
9.Located in a Wilderness/Desert
10.John did not seem to recognize her or her location
11.Kings of Earth fornicate (worship with) or serve her
12.Makes war with the Lamb
13.Kills Saints and Prophets
14.Beheads those who won’t convert
15.Near a busy sea (shipping) lane
16.Ships became rich from selling her “goods”
17.Merchants of the Earth weep at her demise
18.They mourn by throwing dust on their heads
19.Will be attacked and destroyed by the 8th Kingdom who carries her
20.Will be utterly burned with fire (nuked?)
This tower promoting Allah is a slap in God's face. It was built in 2010. Recently a crane from this tower fell and killed over 100 Muslims. This I believe was a warning. It will go unheeded. Does anyone think God has noticed this tower, the tallest clock tower in the world given what it says?
K
kaylagrl
Guest
Judaism and Islam do not compare though. Islam is from the pit of hell.There is no comparison. Right now the Jews are blinded for our sake. But one day they will,the remnant, believe in their Messiah. Not so with Islam.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Judaism is from the pit of hell. It rejects the messiah. and sets up their own works based religion.
Israel is blind in part. I agree.. When their eyes are opened, they will leave Judaism and return to God ..
Both Islam and Judaism are a perverted religion based on Abraham and his descendents.. That is where the likeness comes in.. That and their works based mentality.
Islam is more dangerous, I agree..