Tithe!

[Yet]

Hi guys I've read your replies and thanks for them! Istill need more clarification! a) Did Jesus and Apostles teach about Tithing? If Yes proof with scripture! If No proof with scripture! b) Why do we tithe? i) To avoid being cursed! ii) So that God can release His blessings! iii)Out of aheart of gratitude! vi) As aresponse to God's Love! v) To surpot church ministers who serve us in church and the needy saints in the church! Or all for all these five reasons! C) Should we bother to know how these finances are used or that is bringing in church politics?

Jesus did mention it to the Pharisee wolves while the old covenant was still activated. But it was tithing on food/spices grown.

No commands by the apostles to tithe under the new covenant. The proof is the absence of scripture.

The folks tithe today because they don't know any better. They don't study the word. They put all their confidence in an exalted man, with a special religious title that doesn't want to work, that he is teaching truth. Very dangerous. The results are in. Stagnant spiritual life. Few prayers answered, few deliverances and a pocket book being defrauded. Now Christians will tell you that Reverend Wonderful has so much on his plate that he can't work a factory job. He's just so busy 'working the ministry'. What I have observed in 40 years that the pastors I know are living on easy street. A perpetual vacation year round. News flash. We are all suppose to work ministries, not pay one man to do it for us. And we are ALL suppose to work. That's bible.

The exalted ones tell the folks that if they don't tithe they'll be cursed. They get this from an old covenant book called Malachi. It was talking to the corrupt priests. Oops! They leave that part out....I wonder why?!
They stand by it until someone grows some guts to question it then in perfect timing they'll hit the switch and you're suddenly in Abrams world where he paid a ten percent spoils of war tax on items that weren't even his! Of course the religious leaders of today leave out that part of the story, (oops! They did again) claiming rather 'See....tithe paying was before the law even....gotcha....(sucker)'. Of course they don't say sucker, they say (brother) in a Jesus loving way.

Now for breaking news: In Galatians, the word tells us that if we come under the law, such as tithing, we have fallen from grace and exchange it for a curse. I know tons of Christians that have tithed for decades.....they're still waiting for that window of heaven to open. Many are dead now, and that window never did open up. The only one that prospered sumptuously were the exalted pastors, and business and some self employed men that were corrupt in their dealings. Hmmmm!?

If you work for a set weekly wage, low at that, sucks to be you. God loves you and will help here and there till you get your own eyes open on the lie of the tithe and the false clerical/laity Babylonian division.

I digress. There is so much foolishness and deception in churchianity that it's hard for me to put the brakes on.

About supporting the elders/ministers. Another news flash: They are to financially support themselves. Ouch!! People hate it when I use scripture on this site but here I go. Acts 20 commands the elders/leaders to work secular jobs in order to help take care of the poor. That is exactly the opposite of how church operates today. The pastor quits his day job and demands tithes from the working poor.
First, there is no single salaried pastor in the first century church. It was unheard of. There was a plurality of pastors that served without charging.
Second, Jesus commanded us not to put religious titles in front of our names which spawns pride and exalts us above others. Matt.23. So what do men do today? Just the opposite. You'd be surprised how many 'opposites' you'll find in the modern impact 'church'. Love that word 'impact'. Stirs the soul doesn't it. Puke!!

So do we pay tithes to a church where leaders don't work? No. Do we pay tithes period? No. 'Well then what do we support with our money?' Do you want the modern answer or the biblical answer? Now you see why folks on this site don't like me.

Two targets for your free will love gifts. Traveling preachers/missions and the poor/widows.

You ask 'but, but, but what about all the building expenses?' First three hundred years they had no special edifices. No cathedrals, Winchester or otherwise. They met from home to home. Why would they do such a silly thing? Didn't they want to have big mega churches to impress everybody? No.
They met in homes to keep the numbers small so every member could share their ministry according to (here I go again using scripture, silly me) 1Cor12, Ephesians 4, and Romans 12. Oh how I'm hated. Gosh!

Pop into truthforfree down below and find out what the bible REALLY says about tithing and everything else I mentioned. Be free from religion. Be blessed. Do things God's way. You'll not regret it.
Also Wickedshepherds.com

 

[Willie-T]

I'm sad to hear that.

for myself, I'm very reluctant to give money to a ministry that doesn't want its dollar records out in public.

That is the absolute truth. What do they feel they need to hide?

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Jesus did mention it to the Pharisee wolves while the old covenant was still activated. But it was tithing on food/spices grown.

No commands by the apostles to tithe under the new covenant. The proof is the absence of scripture.

The folks tithe today because they don't know any better. They don't study the word. They put all their confidence in an exalted man, with a special religious title that doesn't want to work, that he is teaching truth. Very dangerous. The results are in. Stagnant spiritual life. Few prayers answered, few deliverances and a pocket book being defrauded. Now Christians will tell you that Reverend Wonderful has so much on his plate that he can't work a factory job. He's just so busy 'working the ministry'. What I have observed in 40 years that the pastors I know are living on easy street. A perpetual vacation year round. News flash. We are all suppose to work ministries, not pay one man to do it for us. And we are ALL suppose to work. That's bible.

The exalted ones tell the folks that if they don't tithe they'll be cursed. They get this from an old covenant book called Malachi. It was talking to the corrupt priests. Oops! They leave that part out....I wonder why?!
They stand by it until someone grows some guts to question it then in perfect timing they'll hit the switch and you're suddenly in Abrams world where he paid a ten percent spoils of war tax on items that weren't even his! Of course the religious leaders of today leave out that part of the story, (oops! They did again) claiming rather 'See....tithe paying was before the law even....gotcha....(sucker)'. Of course they don't say sucker, they say (brother) in a Jesus loving way.

Now for breaking news: In Galatians, the word tells us that if we come under the law, such as tithing, we have fallen from grace and exchange it for a curse. I know tons of Christians that have tithed for decades.....they're still waiting for that window of heaven to open. Many are dead now, and that window never did open up. The only one that prospered sumptuously were the exalted pastors, and business and some self employed men that were corrupt in their dealings. Hmmmm!?

If you work for a set weekly wage, low at that, sucks to be you. God loves you and will help here and there till you get your own eyes open on the lie of the tithe and the false clerical/laity Babylonian division.

I digress. There is so much foolishness and deception in churchianity that it's hard for me to put the brakes on.

About supporting the elders/ministers. Another news flash: They are to financially support themselves. Ouch!! People hate it when I use scripture on this site but here I go. Acts 20 commands the elders/leaders to work secular jobs in order to help take care of the poor. That is exactly the opposite of how church operates today. The pastor quits his day job and demands tithes from the working poor.
First, there is no single salaried pastor in the first century church. It was unheard of. There was a plurality of pastors that served without charging.
Second, Jesus commanded us not to put religious titles in front of our names which spawns pride and exalts us above others. Matt.23. So what do men do today? Just the opposite. You'd be surprised how many 'opposites' you'll find in the modern impact 'church'. Love that word 'impact'. Stirs the soul doesn't it. Puke!!

So do we pay tithes to a church where leaders don't work? No. Do we pay tithes period? No. 'Well then what do we support with our money?' Do you want the modern answer or the biblical answer? Now you see why folks on this site don't like me.

Two targets for your free will love gifts. Traveling preachers/missions and the poor/widows.

You ask 'but, but, but what about all the building expenses?' First three hundred years they had no special edifices. No cathedrals, Winchester or otherwise. They met from home to home. Why would they do such a silly thing? Didn't they want to have big mega churches to impress everybody? No.
They met in homes to keep the numbers small so every member could share their ministry according to (here I go again using scripture, silly me) 1Cor12, Ephesians 4, and Romans 12. Oh how I'm hated. Gosh!

Pop into truthforfree down below and find out what the bible REALLY says about tithing and everything else I mentioned. Be free from religion. Be blessed. Do things God's way. You'll not regret it.
Also Wickedshepherds.com

I had the feeling you might want to comment on this topic. LOL!

 

[KennethC]

Hi guys! Am anew member, Ihave aquestion please just help! Iam born and believe in Tithing and It's apractice Ifollow, Iwas attending acertain meeting in another church where the preacher was talking about giving and he said, a) Jesus never talked about Tithe but Jesus taught about sacrificial giving! b) The apostles never taught about Tithing but they taught early belivers to give towards the extension of the gospel and also to the needy in Jerusalem! c) he said Tithe is alegalistic way of giving and the Apostles in Acts 15:22-30! Please help me know, could Ihave practised this in vain!

Tithing still applies just not in the written ordinance form of the OT, as the tithing we do now is for helping out the needy.

We are commanded in God's word that those who have are to help those who do not, but not to do it out of obligation or disgust, but to do it in love !!!

As for Jesus not preaching tithing that is not absolutely true, as Jesus gave the passage of the rich and the poor widow in MARK 12 and LUKE 21 which had to do with tithing.

Jesus did not respect what the rich gave because they did it out of obligation, but the poor women gave all that she had out of love for God and He respected what she gave.

Tithing is to never be used for self gain for the preacher or pastor, and is not for the church building alone.

If the church any of us go to does not provide help for its congregation (financially) members when they are in need, then they are misusing the funds given to them.

I am sadden to see a number of churches that turn people away or do not help its congregation out when they are in need because they take the funds and place them on everything but helping the needy.

 

[Euphemia]

You tell me. The men before that old woman, who cast in two mites, gave considerably more, yet Christ disdained them didn't He?

It is definitely a heart issue.

 

[Euphemia]

I'm sad to hear that.

for myself, I'm very reluctant to give money to a ministry that doesn't want its dollar records out in public.

Don't be sad. Our budget and spending is available to all members.

 

[Willie-T]

Don't be sad. Our budget and spending is available to all members.

Yep, "secrecy".

If we "tithed", our intake would be right around $2,200 a week. As we do it now, our intake is closer to $5,000. (We only have about 40 families.)

 

[Euphemia]

Yep, "secrecy".

There's no secrecy.

 

[Dan_473]

Thanks, Dan-473! Iguess I'll have to do my own research! Am not out to stir up controversy, Ijust thought Imight get some clarifications, but if these will cause people to stumble then I withdraw to my own research! I've gotten some real Insights though!!

you're welcome... and it's fine to ask... I didn't mean that was an issue... I meant that after 30 or 40 posts, the kind of answers you've already seen are basically the cross-section of the christian world.

if you haven't seen a "slam-dunk" answer yet, one probably won't appear to you... at least anytime soon... people (myself included) will start to get into hair-splitting and whatnot.

 

[Dan_473]

Tithing still applies just not in the written ordinance form of the OT, as the tithing we do now is for helping out the needy.

maybe a note of clarification... when I hear "tithing" I think of the 10% rule... (gross income? or net?)... I'm not in favor of that...

certainly, giving to the poor is very much a nt activity...

also, imo, giving to those who preach the gospel... I think that's in the nt.

 

[Dan_473]

Don't be sad. Our budget and spending is available to all members.

only to members? I could be wrong on this, but I think any organization that can issue a receipt for charitable tax purposes (in the usa) must make financial records available to the public.

an irs thing... again, I could be wrong...

 

[Dan_473]

ok, a quick trip around the web reveals that the regulations are lot more complicated than that...

so, I'll just leave it at: I wouldn't give to an organization that wanted its records hidden from the public...

but I am still sad that Euphemia won't talk about her church's money... imo it would move the discussion forward...

 

[ladylynn]

Hi guys I've read your replies and thanks for them! Istill need more clarification! a) Did Jesus and Apostles teach about Tithing? If Yes proof with scripture! If No proof with scripture! b) Why do we tithe? i) To avoid being cursed! ii) So that God can release His blessings! iii)Out of aheart of gratitude! vi) As aresponse to God's Love! v) To surpot church ministers who serve us in church and the needy saints in the church! Or all for all these five reasons! C) Should we bother to know how these finances are used or that is bringing in church politics?

As you can see Wesil, many Christians hold to many different interpretation of what the Bible says on the matter of tithing.

So I shall throw in my thoughts too. Abraham was not under law but he tithed. I am not under law either but I tithe. And the reason is I came to a major point in life where I realized it was allll from God even down to my last socks and ability to breathe. I remember striving on my own trying to make each penny go further just a few years ago.

Although in the 1990s our family tithed for many years to our local fundamental Baptist church., and we were very familiar with 'the tithe'; it never moved me to WANT to tithe, only that we HAD to tithe. But many years later after being out of those churches I've learned from a faith perspective that I wanted to tithe the 10% When I had nothing and strived for more, I had less. When I trusted Jesus I had more than enough.

It's because I decided to take a step out in faith and trust God to be my 'security' instead of the financial income I was generating. That is when things changed. To give God His rightful place as the ONE Who is my provider was a major step for me as a divorced almost homeless woman in her 50s with no skills in the work place who no one wanted to hire.

I have never been sorry to give 10% of my finances to the Lord. I count it off as His and as an offering and a testimony from me that Jesus is alive today. It is He that gives me the ability to go out and make wealth. Everything I am is due to His hand in my life. For me it is a reasonable service as well as I get to show Him also from a representation of my time in working and being paid that He is the one I trust and not my income.

You can read about Abraham and his tithes to Melchizedek. We are the sons of Abraham under the new covenant of grace. And also, we end up giving on top of the tithe. I have more than enough and He makes me aware of His hand of blessings. Than thankfulness is poured out to Him in my prayers and worship to the One who is my Good Shepherd . For me, tithing magnifies Jesus in my life today not only by the words I speak but by the obvious issues of home and hearth..,All comes from His hand., He has gifted us with all things pertaining to life and godliness.

What better way to worship Him and magnify Jesus than by what human's consider to be sooo important and strive all their lives to attain? We give because He has freely given to us. And He never leaves us destitute. He even assures our human emotional need that cry for some evidence of Him in the here and now. He knows that we have need of these things.


And for those who have misquoted those of us who talk a lot about grace and tithing, you need to observe how your judgment is wrong x2 issues. First the idea you say says that those who talk about grace feel they can sin all they want... false., we do what we do for love of Christ and the Holy Spirit's conviction that we are the sons of God and it is our calling to obey from the heart.

Christians who are assured of who they are In Christ Jesus, now do what God calls us to do from the heart and not out of compulsion or distress. It is the same with tithing in my life. It honors Jesus for me to give a substantial proportion of what He has blessed me with to show my trust in Him to take care of me and not this paper that the world uses for it's major security from the horrors of life on earth. We are not like the unsaved person who has no Father to take care of them.

I am thankful to be able to tithe. We are blessed to BE a blessing.

 

[Euphemia]

but I am still sad that Euphemia won't talk about her church's money... imo it would move the discussion forward...

It is only our business, and definitely not the business of members of Christian Chat Forums. That isn't sad. It's wise.

 

[fredoheaven]

as I read it, Jesus is telling the Pharisees to tithe... which to me makes sense...

myself, I don't see a Malachi / 1 cor 16 connection... 1 cor 16 literally says, "put by himself".

Hi Sir Dan,

Yap, by the inspiration of the Holy Ghost Paul wrote to the Corinth believers with the thought of "storehouse giving" that's why he made mention of the word "store". Do you think that because Paul dd not wrote anything about "hell" he therefore did not believe in hell?

The case in in 1 Corinthians 16 has something to do with the collection for the saints. The believers at Corinth were aware that the Apostle was gathering funds for the Jerusalem Church and apparently they had written to inquire how they participate in this collection. As the way I see it, there are two things that come out to mind:
1. In their Tithes. Again, this is implied because of the word "store".
2. In their Offerings. That's the phrase, "As God prospered him". Giving is absolutely a blessing. Give and it shall be given to you. The principle and attitude is to give in order to give.

The only reason why folks don't tithe and give is because they have not yet given themselves to the Lord first. Everything will be fine as you give yourselves first to the Lord in regards to stewardship. Tithing and giving is no longer a burden but a blessing.

I don't be fooled to those against it for I have proved God by it. Maybe their God is not my God of the Bible. God Bless!


He cares,

 

[jaybird88]

ok, a quick trip around the web reveals that the regulations are lot more complicated than that...

so, I'll just leave it at: I wouldn't give to an organization that wanted its records hidden from the public...

but I am still sad that Euphemia won't talk about her church's money... imo it would move the discussion forward...

i would be curious to know the salaries.
the mega churches usually have big payrolls, for the management anyway. their are some around here that are completely insane.

im not accusing Euphs church of any wrong doing, just curious as it seems to be a bigger church with the dance school, cafe and all the rest. we have sermons and bible study at my church, thats about it.

 

[p_rehbein]

Yep, "secrecy".

If we "tithed", our intake would be right around $2,200 a week. As we do it now, our intake is closer to $5,000. (We only have about 40 families.)

That's why we call it Tithes and Offerings............ (just saying)

 

[Willie-T]

That's why we call it Tithes and Offerings............ (just saying)

Are you saying your church requires people put in at least the 10% first.... then kick in whatever else they intend to?

 

[p_rehbein]

Are you saying your church requires people put in at least the 10% first.... then kick in whatever else they intend to?

No.............we do not require anyone to tithe............we do teach that tithing is Biblical, and when special needs arise for one reason or another, we will present that need to the Congregation and ask for special offerings to meet the need.

One I can think of right off (at this time of year) is the need for donations/offerings to replenish our Food Pantry......

Another would be Christ's Birthday Offering that goes to support the needy and other works.......

Few Churches (I suspect) could actually meet their financial commitments based only on a 10% tithe...........

 

[Willie-T]

No.............we do not require anyone to tithe............we do teach that tithing is Biblical, and when special needs arise for one reason or another, we will present that need to the Congregation and ask for special offerings to meet the need.

One I can think of right off (at this time of year) is the need for donations/offerings to replenish our Food Pantry......

Another would be Christ's Birthday Offering that goes to support the needy and other works.......

Few Churches (I suspect) could actually meet their financial commitments based only on a 10% tithe..........

Careful... Euphemia called me a liar when I said that same thing earlier in this thread. (But I do agree with you.... I know we couldn't.)