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The beauty of the small in home groups in the first century, is that Christ can operate through each member His giftings, ministering one unto another. Christ as Head of the meeting, in charge by the Holy Spirit. That was lost about 3 centuries later. The devil laughed all the way to the bank.
L
ladylynn
Guest
Thanks Dan, Those are pretty good reasons and I appreciate you being so clear about it. Merry Christmas to you and yours!!!
G
Gr8grace
Guest
Just a scenario............Someone has the "gift" of handling deadly snakes and drinking poison and has the "gift" of smooth language to get other believers to drink this poison and CLAIMS his right to operate in this "gift" in YOUR meeting........nobody there has the authority to stop it. Can't we all just get along?
The Lord told Peter to CLOBBER His sheep. Someone (goat) comes into the meeting and no one has authority to clobber................this is where we get " holy laughter" , "rolling on the floor".......and many other "freak shows." No authority is established.
a group meeting in a home can still have someone in charge... yes, that person can become corrupt, but that can also happen in large groups.
I would suspect that most people who conduct home meetings are mature enough to exercise authority over miscreants.
Clobber?
K
KennethC
Guest
Yes we are not bound to the 10% rule of the OT, and churches that make their congregation give 10% of their income as I have seen some that do this are doing it wrong. They are turning something that is to be done out of love into an obligation which the Lord frowned on.
This is a issue that people have a heard time with understanding because they want to stick to the written instead of how it is to be observed spiritually now.
We do not follow as the written ordinances decree, we follow based on the love we walk in !!!
K
KennethC
Guest
Those gifts you speak of snake handling and drinking poison is not gifts of the Holy Spirit when they are taking and doing it constantly as a show in front of their congregation. That is tempting God which is wrong to do !!!
Which is why you hear cases of preachers who do this in their churches getting bitten and dying, because this is not what the Word of God was meaning when it said we believers would be able to handle deadly snakes and such.
Doing it as a show is wrong !!!
K
KennethC
Guest
I also don't believe in preachers getting a set salary, as that again turns the giving into a financial obligation which again Jesus said giving out of obligation is wrong.
Also when He sent the disciples out two by two He told them not to keep any for them selves, if they take up a collect give it to the needy in the next town.
The whole concept of the preacher receiving what he is worth was based not on a financial understanding, it was spoke of as being welcomed into the homes, feed, given clothing, and such.
We have come so far away from the true understanding and role of the preacher that even some pastor's preach on two or three days a week and that is it. That is all they do as the role as been turned into a obligatory job, instead of one of love and exhortation of the body.
Some still hold good to being available at all times to its members, doing other outreach ministering as well, and so on.....
The roles given to each of us are for love and edification of others !!!
Also when He sent the disciples out two by two He told them not to keep any for them selves, if they take up a collect give it to the needy in the next town.
The whole concept of the preacher receiving what he is worth was based not on a financial understanding, it was spoke of as being welcomed into the homes, feed, given clothing, and such.
We have come so far away from the true understanding and role of the preacher that even some pastor's preach on two or three days a week and that is it. That is all they do as the role as been turned into a obligatory job, instead of one of love and exhortation of the body.
Some still hold good to being available at all times to its members, doing other outreach ministering as well, and so on.....
The roles given to each of us are for love and edification of others !!!
Hi Sir Dan,
This is to clarify why I still believe tithes should be done by Christians. I put the teaching of Scriptures in its entirety above men's opinion on this matter, hence, the Scriptures is the final authority of my faith and practice. Putting that into consideration, what the Bible says is very important and what counts. Here look, In Acts 2:42 was mentioned about the "apostles doctrine" meaning that which apostles taught. The "apostles doctrine" was true, not because an apostle taught it, but it was in consistent with the scriptures.
Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
We are told that the Bereans examined the teaching of the Apostle Paul in the light of the scriptures before accepting it.
Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
Likewise, the Church of Ephesus examined some who called themselves Apostles and found them liars.
Revelation 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
So it is to be noted that Bereans used the Scriptures as the standard practice to know one's teaching is of God.
The so called "absence" of Apostolic command is not a fair reason to invalidate the teaching or principle of tithe as found in the NT. Granting the "store" is no link to "storehouse", I could still see no reason why a Christian would leave the principle of tithing. The mere "absence" reasoning would leave us stalemate because there's not even one specific Apostolic command or order to abolished tithe. The fact of the absence of order or command to abolished tithes is foreign in the N.T. teaching, the principles of Christ doctrine or in the Apostles doctrine.
The so called "absence" gets even unfair to Apostle Paul making him a Liar. In Acts 20:35 Paul stated and as Luke wrote that to "...remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said. It is more blessed to give than to receive." The quotation from Christ by Apostle Paul is nowhere to be found in the 4 Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John). This does prove that Apostle Paul and writer Luke lying? A very certain answer is NO, your honor! If it is only basis "that these were no mentioned of the command from the Apostle" just to invalidate the tithe is far from the truth.
The principle of tithe was taught by Christ. Jesus taught even to the Pharissees yet not to leave the other weightier matters undone. But some will say Christ is teaching to the Pharisees and it is the tithe of mint? Well, we only limit our world that tithe is all about money. In the bible, spoils can be a source of tithe of Abraham, an animals, fruits or even vegetable.
Hebrews 7:4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
Again Abraham did tithe not even a single command from God. The absence of God's command did not invalidate Abraham to practice tithe.
Tithe was commenced by Abraham, yes it was incorporated in the Law 500 years later thus it was commanded by Moses and it was commended by our Lord Jesus. Yes, there's nothing new about tithing, oftentimes, what's new is not true.
God bless
The NT teaches the opposite! The OT commands what to give, by inference what to keep. The NT teaches how much to give, keeping only what is needed to support our family, being ready to give to them that have not.
Precious.
Paul, in Hebrews 7, did receive instructions about tithing from the Lord. That issue touches all people because it handles their wallets. That puts everyone on guard!
Paul brings up a fact that the Levites of Israel were deactivated concerning collection of tithes.
They were deactivated because the eternal priesthood in Christ replaced them. Jesus came by way of that eternal priesthood, by which also Melchizedek came, to whom Abraham tithed before the law commanded tithing 430 years later. The law from Moses commanded tithing for the good of Israel.
When the Levitical priesthood was abolished in Christ, tithing switched back to the eternal priesthood in Christ, instead of through the Levites. Tithing then resumed outside of Mosaic commandment.
Hebrews 7 explains that Jesus, who is of that eternal priesthood by which Melchizedek collecting tithes from mortal men came, now receives tithes of mortal men for the use of mortal men preaching the gospel of Christ.
Jesus is still receiving them. Heb 7:8
He only receives legitimate tithes that are submitted! He also blesses freewill giving according to what God puts on the hearts of disciples, and even of unbelievers, other than "dogs", those that live abominations.
When poor people apply faith, by faith tithing, God is obligated to apply the tithe blessing. When a congregation of tithers tithe regularly, they prosper even though they tithe few dollars. God has not rescinded the tithe blessing, but removed the curse of not tithing. People "chipping in" a few dollars regardless of what the Holy Spirit says can't possibly prosper from tithing 10% of their gain. They might benefit from "giving' alms, in the concept of a "loan" to God. God sees the "heart of man", and so blesses accordingly. It matters not whether the tithe is paid by commandment or by spiritual obedience. God honors the tithe, then he blesses alms. If we give "largely" to charity but neglect the weightier matters, there remains no blessing other than the immediate praise of men. A large gift regardless of tithe then makes the newspaper. Whatever praise then is from people, not God, so that commendation is dead when that newspaper is in the trash can. The quiet "secret" tithe is an eternal commendation from God, not to be known among mortal men who can't open the windows of heaven.
It is a false teaching that none of ancient Israel had to tithe unless a farmer. All "gain" was subject to the tithe. A silver mine owner was to tithe. So was a miner employee to tithe. A rocking chair maker was to tithe. An ancient real estate merchant was to tithe. A merchant marine shipper was to tithe. None were excluded.
