andrew wommack

[Pooh]

Hi there Ugly,
I haven't been on here in ages but I am glad you are keeping up with good comments. I hope you are doing great

 

[crossnote]

The Word Became Flesh
By Andrew Wommack

When God speaks, His words are binding—they’re like an unbreakable contract. He always says exactly what He means, He never lies, and He never says, “Whoops, I’ve changed My mind.”

Hebrews 1:3 says, “Upholding all things by the word of his power,” and Psalm 89:34 says, “My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.”
This entire universe is being held together by the power of God’s words. It was His word that created the earth and every living thing on it, and by His words, He created Adam and Eve. He didn’t make them or any part of this world with His hands; He spoke it all into existence. Then, after creating all of this, He said,
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. (Gen. 1:28)
He gave absolute dominion to Adam and Eve. When He said “I give you authority and dominion,” He took His power—His right to rule and control the earth—and gave it to physical human beings. In a sense, He excluded Himself from ruling over the earth.
I know that’s a new wrinkle in some of your brains, but it’s true, and it answers many questions concerning the sovereignty of God. In the series I’m airing on the Gospel Truth this month, entitled The Word Became Flesh, I will teach more about God’s sovereignty and what that means to you.
In Psalm 15:4, the Bible says that a godly man will swear to his own hurt and change not. The word godly means like God. God will swear to His own hurt and change not. So, when Adam and Eve disobeyed God, He did not violate His word to save man from the terrible problems that would come from their decisions. Human beings were given this earth to do with as they saw fit. However, this did not catch God by surprise; He knew it was going to happen and already had a plan in place to reconcile man back unto Himself.
For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ. Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. (Rom. 5:17-19)

In Revelation 13:8, it says, “And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world” (underline mine).
These scriptures answer two very important questions: One, why did Jesus have to come to earth, and two, if it was necessary for Him to come, why did God wait 4,000 years to get Him here?

It was a man—a physical human being—who had been given authority on the earth by God. When man allowed himself to be deceived and when he yielded his power to Satan, he became, in a sense, joint-heirs with the devil. Satan has to work through a human being. Man, through his physical body, gave Satan authority on this earth.
Therefore, it was necessary for a man with a physical body to take back that authority.God had to become man, to give Him the authority to execute judgment on the earth: “And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man” (John 5:27).God cannot break or change His word, so He was restricted to act within the word He had already spoken.
But why did it take 4,000 years? Here is the logic: When God created the first man, He said, “Let us make man in our image” (Gen. 1:26). He literally spoke Adam’s body into existence. At that time, He had the legal right to do that because He had not yet given authority over this earth to man.
However, once He had given that authority to man, He could not leave him out of the equation. The last Adam, Jesus, would still have to be spoken into existence by God, but He would have to speak through man. God was no longer in direct control, and a man would have to become the voice of His words. Psalm 115:16 explains—
The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord’s: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.
That is a strong statement. In other words, everything outside of the earth belongs to God, but the earth He gave to the children of man. God literally placed restrictions on Himself through His own words. He had to work through people, and there were very few people sensitive enough to hear Him in their hearts and then prophesy what they heard.
God had to create the new Adam through words spoken by someone with a physical body. Galatians 4:4 says, “But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son.” If you study that out, it means at the appropriate moment. Until then, all the prophetic utterances hadn’t been spoken. Jesus could not come onto the scene until everything that had to be said was said.
For example, it had to be prophesied that Jesus would be born of a virgin. That was critical because Jesus would not be just a good man—Jesus was God manifest in the flesh. Through Mary, Jesus received a physical body, but it was the blood of God the Father flowing through Him. He was a God-man.
Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. (Luke 1:34-35)
Here is what I believed happened. Mary asked, “How’s this going to happen?” She wasn’t questioning the possibility; it was just the how. And the angel said that the word of God is the incorruptible seed:“All of the words spoken over 4,000 years, through hundreds of people, are going to conceive in you.” First Peter 1:23 says, “Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.”

The Greek word for “seed” in this scripture is spora. It comes from the same root word as sperma, which is talking about the seed of a man. The virgin birth of Jesus was completely natural in every respect except one: It was not the seed of a man. The seed was the word of God. The Word became flesh! All that had been prophesied about Jesus became the spora, or the seed.
Whether it’s literal or symbolic, I believe that each of us have a spiritual womb. We take the supernatural words of God—the seed of the miracles we need—and we meditate on them until they conceive, until we can see the result in our hearts. Then, when we can see it, we can speak it into existence. This is what Jesus was talking about in Mark 11:23:
For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.

God’s Word is living and alive. His Word is health unto all of your flesh and life to them that find it. He sent His Word to heal and deliver from destruction and more. And for those who will place His words in their hearts and allow those seeds to conceive, they will in time see the manifestation of what they believe and speak.

In bolded red are all the unscriptural errors I see in this writing/message by Wommack. Perhaps this is also taken out of context?

 

[Gr8grace]

In bolded red are all the unscriptural errors I see in this writing/message by Wommack. Perhaps this is also taken out of context?

You nailed it IMO. The "big" doctrines are worded precisely so as not to get the Church wound up, but the precise wording helps with their "pet" doctrines.

They care about their pet(false) doctrines and have no idea that they messed up the "big" doctrines in doing so.

 

[FancyNancy]

That is an unfair accusation and untrue.

I don't have to agree with but can still recognize Crossnote is a man of intelligence and he loves the Lord.

What's unfair is what people are saying to slander a teacher of the word. Not every teacher says things in a way that EVERYONE can comprehend. That is not what makes a false teacher. People are just to eager to label people and dismiss them like so much garbage. It's a shark feeding frenzy around here.

I've never said that crossnote was unintelligent nor someone who doesn't love the Lord. However, I have been told that I am a cultist, which couldn't be FURTHER from the truth.

 

[FancyNancy]

Despite what the apologists for these cult deceivers do to try and rehabilitate them, by belaboring and trying to make the entire issue a mere dispute over some single statement: this is a smokescreen.

Yes, you and your cohorts make an issue out of a statement or two out of countless messages of real, life-changing truth because you are hiding behind the smokescreen of "WOF Bashing", lumping all into that pile, whether it belongs there or not.

It's very clear, considering the other threads you purvey.

I don't really care what you post or think about the WOF, as I am not a part of them or the excesses that they are known to have been involved in and have preached.

 

[crossnote]

What's unfair is what people are saying to slander a teacher of the word. Not every teacher says things in a way that EVERYONE can comprehend. That is not what makes a false teacher. People are just to eager to label people and dismiss them like so much garbage. It's a shark feeding frenzy around here.

I've never said that crossnote was unintelligent nor someone who doesn't love the Lord. However, I have been told that I am a cultist, which couldn't be FURTHER from the truth.

ok, I'm willing to drop all the personal tit for tats, name calling etc., even towards Mr Wommack, and rather deal with the teachings of this particular individual.
Such as post #182

 

[FancyNancy]

Alarmist propaganda? That is real footage taken directly from a movement that Oral Roberts endorsed and participated in.
As I expected you had no valid answer, just a dismissive attitude and a rude tone. You prove time and time again you cannot back up anything with facts, only gripe and complain about others while extolling yourself as righteous.
I knew within the first day of your joining this site what kind of user you would be me you have prove. My right time and time again. Your hypocrisy and inability to defend anything you stand for show me that people here are throwing pearls before swine by trying to discuss anything with you. Am I officially walking away from this as you have not proven yourself to have one valid justification on what you believe and defend. You merely have attacks and criticism while accusing others of the same thing.
I have provided evidence and you have responded with, essentially, "pfft yeah right. You're clueless". But not a coherent and biblical defense. Carry on in your pride and ignorance, but I, for one, will be saving my time and pearls for those who are capable of genuine communication.

Post reported.

 

[crossnote]

Amazing this thread was started in Oct. 2013, and someone brought it back up and it just keeps going. The OP is long, long gone.

That's ok, the video posted was from 2009, so we can all pretend we are in a Time Machine

 

[Tankman131]

Cults 101: Checklist of Cult Characteristics

checklist of a cult: andrew wommack

‪[FONT=Helvetica, -webkit-pictograph]☑️[/FONT] The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.
‪[FONT=Helvetica, -webkit-pictograph]☑️[/FONT] Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.
‪[FONT=Helvetica, -webkit-pictograph]☑️[/FONT] Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).
‪[FONT=Helvetica, -webkit-pictograph]☑️[/FONT] The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry—or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth).
‪[FONT=Helvetica, -webkit-pictograph]☑️[/FONT] The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity).
‪[FONT=Helvetica, -webkit-pictograph]☑️[/FONT] The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.
‪[FONT=Helvetica, -webkit-pictograph]☑️[/FONT] The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations).
‪[FONT=Helvetica, -webkit-pictograph]☑️[/FONT] The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities).
‪ The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt iin order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.
‪[FONT=Helvetica, -webkit-pictograph]☑️[/FONT] Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group.
‪[FONT=Helvetica, -webkit-pictograph]☑️[/FONT] The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.
‪[FONT=Helvetica, -webkit-pictograph]☑️[/FONT] The group is preoccupied with making money.
‪[FONT=Helvetica, -webkit-pictograph]☑️ [/FONT]Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities.
‪[FONT=Helvetica, -webkit-pictograph]☑️ [/FONT]Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.
‪ The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group.

 

[MoladhDia]

In bolded red are all the unscriptural errors I see in this writing/message by Wommack. Perhaps this is also taken out of context?

I was going to break each one of the highlights down and discuss it but Andrew provides scripture to back it up. I don't need to say anything more. Andrew is a man of God and bickering about it on here won't change any minds. I love all of you guys in Christ and think I've said enough on this thread. God Bless

 

[crossnote]

Cults 101: Checklist of Cult Characteristics

checklist of a cult: andrew wommack

‪☑️ The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.
‪☑️ Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.
‪☑️ Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).
‪☑️ The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry—or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth).
‪☑️ The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity).
‪☑️ The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.
‪☑️ The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations).
‪☑️ The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities).
‪ The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt iin order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.
‪☑️ Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group.
‪☑️ The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.
‪☑️ The group is preoccupied with making money.
‪☑️ Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities.
‪☑️ Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.
‪ The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group.

yes there are 'sociological' cults as described above and not only cults having bizarro teachings. Like I said, I am not that familiar with their activities as a group, but some of Wommacks teachings are at the least heretical and at the most cultish IMHO.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Fancy, one area of contention is "Speaking Jesus into existence."

I am not a fan of Wommack, but I searched his site and found the teaching that put that little quote of Wommacks in context. I can see what he meant by that quote now.

Why not present things like this to try to argue your point? I found that teaching pretty quick on his site.

Post 134.

There are quite a few teachings that are eye-openers.

Give it a listen and you will see that he is always giving scripture and location of that scripture and that way you can see what he means because

sometimes when we are typing and behind the computer you can't see our face and etc...

It sounded bad when I heard some of things he said on the video but when you listen to the whole thing I believe you will understand.

I'm glad that GOD looks at the heart.

 

[ember]

Originally Posted by ember

uh...that's really kind of mean Nancy...where do Christians get off calling others a twit?

fancynancy in brackets, response to my post in italics...my 2nd response in green (if anyone is interested)

If the shoe fits...

do you have the verse for that one? I couldn't find it in my concordance.......


Actually, I have researched Wommack myself and he IS 'out there'...I speak in tongues and all the other goosebumpy stuff, but I don't turn off my discernment because someone seems like a nice guy

If only you'd have researched the word of God.

And you know I didn't because....uh...you discern it? FYI, there is no discernment without starting with the Bible, so, guess again


I don't want to argue with you...or trade insults...but I am alarmed when I read a post like yours in response to crossnote, because it is irrational, accusatory and just plain not nice

Jesus wasn't nice. He despised puffed up pride among religious folk.

Really. Well, you know, tell that to Paul. He was one of the most religious folk ever and look how Jesus loved him.

Your response is remarkably unbiblical. Jesus was not nice. That's really rich...and very discerning.


I worship no man, but many do simply because they get off on emotions and like a certain style...I'm not saying that is you, but those who are spirit filled are no better than those who are not and just maybe, probably and quite likely, actually have more to answer for than those who are not. God has not shown us any more favor than those who deny the gifts...which often happens because of the misuse and attitudes displayed as though holier meant tongues or feelings

Your judgment is duly noted.

Sarcastic much? I'm not a cessationist...but I can tell you that one of the reaons many folk are is the superior attitude you are displaying. It's not godly and it certainly helps no one...who wants to listen to someone who slaps people's mouths and then states they have the gift of discernment?

No one cares about your gift...it's a loud cymbal, however, some might be interested in a little fruit...like love and patience


I'm pretty sure we are both saved though

I am, and I pray that you are.

I was speaking about the opposing sides here...not you personally. Wommacks teachings are not a salvation issue


Drawing such hard lines in the sand does not help anyone

Correct, so why all the disdain and malice at this site against sisters and brothers in Christ? We are to be accepting of those who have yet to plug in to many truths that come with spiritual growth. If you (in general) can't agree on the simple truths of the word, how are any of you to be able to accept the meat?

That is your view. Erroneous teaching is erroneous teaching and is not personal malice...even though some get directed there pretty quick...that's a red herring. The problem is that some of Wommack's teaching is gristle...not meat.


Either Wommack is spot on...or he's not...I don't think he is for more than one reason

I have heard only one thing in a few years that he has said that I disagree with, but that doesn't make him a false teacher or a heretic. It makes him a man who loves God and may be wrong in a certain area. I take in the spiritual food that is in accordance with God's word, and I spit out any bones. That should be everyone's attitude.

I stated that some of what he teaches is off...but what is off, is really off. If you see that as a heretic, the that must be your own personal filter.

Believing whatever you want Nancy, does not make those who disagree with you your enemy. Some people are not very good at spitting out bones...they choke on them and fall away. Maybe you have never dealt with those who have been damaged by bad doctrine, but it happens and pretty regularly.

 

[ember]

Actually, I have very strong discernment, as well as the gift of discerning of spirits.

that's very helpful on forums where no one knows you

oh gee whiz

 

[ember]

What is a Wommacker? We as Spirit-filled beleivers need to judge with righteous judgment. What I am seeing here is nothing but carnal judgment...judgement without wisdom or knowledge.

It reeks.

yeah...yuh know...I am one of those spirit-filled believers and last night when posting in this thread, I was quite grieved in my spirit...which means the Holy Spirit was grieved

Is there something stopping you from being civil Nancy? No, really...is there?

Because I believe in the gifts...I pray in tongues and all that stuff you say you do...but discernment is not about attacking other believers whether they pray in tongues or say it is of the devil

I could not be more serious...I hope you don't resort to another firecracker answer, but if you do, that is ON YOU...it is not the Spirit of God and not discernment

 

[ember]

I'm sorry if you got angry at my recommendation. I wasn't trying to order you around. I think we all should pray for discernment.

Telling someone they should pray is nothing to be angry about...for that matter, you are saying I am angry because you don't understand what I was trying to say

Do you see that? I don't like people assuming things...prayer is the first thing to do ...why do you assume I am only guessing what I think about Wommack? Because I don't agree with you?

That, is one of the problems round these here parts...people guess and assume instead of asking

Please see that as it is intended...just me speaking straight without anger or sugar coated words...I'm a pretty straight shooter but I do ask questions if I don't understand or I am not sure

There are some angry posts here, but you know, when someone comes on angry and calls names, it is only going to worse and no that was not you

 

[Gr8grace]

There are quite a few teachings that are eye-openers.

Give it a listen and you will see that he is always giving scripture and location of that scripture and that way you can see what he means because

sometimes when we are typing and behind the computer you can't see our face and etc...

It sounded bad when I heard some of things he said on the video but when you listen to the whole thing I believe you will understand.

I'm glad that GOD looks at the heart.

I have looked into him enough. That short little quote was taken out of context IMO. And I can give him the benefit of the doubt on that exact point.

But do know why He words it the way he does. He needs to word it that way to fit his pet doctrine of "Speak" it.

The reason it sounds bad, is because the wording needs to "help" his pet doctrines that fund his occupation.

It needs to sound pretty close to the truth so not to get people in an uproar, but the language helps to bolster his pet doctrines.

 

[ember]

See post #41

This is what Wommack is talking about.

from post 41

He isn't saying Jesus hasn't always been with God. He is talking about the birth of the human Jesus. The Word of God has always been there and Jesus is the living Word.

yes...I know that...but he is saying...and I know this because of researching both his page and sermons...that Jesus was born through prophecy...did the prophets decide to say what they did or were they directed by the Holy Spirit to say what God was going to do?

You see, it seems Wommack is one of those who think we create reality with what we state

I'm not disgreeing because of one or two things he has said or teaches...I disagree because the SLANT or INTENT of his teaching goes PAST and ADDS to what scripture teaches

I will never agree with that because if one could so and it was acceptable, then what is to stop every one of us from creating our own little world

 

[ladylynn]

It's a full time job for me to live my own Christian life. I have always wondered why some people make it their life's work to follow other people's Christian walk with Jesus and appoint themselves mini holy spirits. There are tons of sites that only exist for the sole purpose to seek out and find others who disagree with what they say the Bible teaches.
They then "label" and "denounce" their sentence upon who they find and begin a smear campaign to spread their findings to all who follow their broad castings.

They make lists of people who may fit into their criteria of who's who in the heretic world and then find unity among themselves in the process. There is some kind of happiness in this type of unity for some.

Judging others is a very easy thing to do. As human beings we have a natural inclination to find fault with others. It's what we do! It's in our DNA. As born again Christians its our responsibility to look to Jesus and by the renewing of our minds learn not to judge people's hearts and to allow the Holy Spirit to do the convicting and the leading. It has been my observation that He needs no help in this job. He does it 100% well. Judging hearts is something God has not equipped us to do. If someone speaks in tongues and believes in miracles and you don't, it's not your place to denounce them as a liar and heretic. If someone uses the money God has blessed them with to begin a ministry and does things with the funds that you don't agree with, it's not your job to denounce them as a liar and heretic. Just because one person would not see the need to buy an item, does not mean the other person has no reason or right to buy it. It seems pretty simple to me.

Again, I heard this story about how a Christian started his ministry with the Lord. It began as a small and tiny seed planted. No one saw it go into the ground. No one was there when it was patiently tended and cared for year after year. The sacrifices made and the work of tilling and weeding. No one saw the tiny leaves sprouting up and how it was tenderly prayed for and nurtured. But when this small plant grew larger and larger and began to yeald lots of fruit and pour out a hundred fold from what it once was, everyone saw it then, it was no longer tiny - obscure and needy.

The tiny plant grew and began to yeald a hundred fold of what it once was and grew more and more as the Lord saw fit. And many were blessed and added to the number but many others also found fault with how the laborers were caring for the once obscure plant that was made to yeald it's fruit and shade for others. And they made it their job to tear it down and make it go away.

I can surely understand the unsaved world doing that to a Christian work since they are doing what the enemy wants, stop the Gospel from being broadcast around the world. But I do not understand how fellow Christians can do it and see nothing wrong with tearing down another believer's labors for the Lord. I believe this is of the many issues the Bible speaks about even the very elect will be deceived in the last days.

 

[ember]

Post #41

The fuller quote..."God spoke Jesus into existence through a dozen possibly hundreds of people over a 4000 year period"

This is Wommack's take on our words becoming reality. This is wrong and not taught in scripture.

The prophets spoke directed by the Holy Spirit to state what God had already said would happen...as Adam and Eve were about to be evicted from the garden.

We should agree with what the Bible states...not add to it. If my words that I speak are in agreement with the Word, then I can expect the things I agree with as I am in agreement with God and He does not fall back on His own Word...but that is not at all the same as believing that because I or even a group say something often enough it will come to pass...even if it is a godly thing

There is deception in that teaching and I think you have to recognize that even though it almost sounds biblical