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G
Fancy, one area of contention is "Speaking Jesus into existence."
I am not a fan of Wommack, but I searched his site and found the teaching that put that little quote of Wommacks in context. I can see what he meant by that quote now.
Why not present things like this to try to argue your point? I found that teaching pretty quick on his site.
Post 134.
I am not a fan of Wommack, but I searched his site and found the teaching that put that little quote of Wommacks in context. I can see what he meant by that quote now.
Why not present things like this to try to argue your point? I found that teaching pretty quick on his site.
Post 134.
E
These cult followers here of Wommack need to wake up, smell the coffee and read the Scriptures.
The thing is, Jesus is right there in Genesis 1:1 and the first several verses of John give Jesus equal time with God
But, you know, let's just ignore those facts....I mean you have to ignore them in order to agree with Mr Wommack
The Word Became Flesh
By Andrew Wommack
When God speaks, His words are binding—they’re like an unbreakable contract. He always says exactly what He means, He never lies, and He never says, “Whoops, I’ve changed My mind.”
Hebrews 1:3 says, “Upholding all things by the word of his power,” and Psalm 89:34 says, “My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.”
This entire universe is being held together by the power of God’s words. It was His word that created the earth and every living thing on it, and by His words, He created Adam and Eve. He didn’t make them or any part of this world with His hands; He spoke it all into existence. Then, after creating all of this, He said,
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. (Gen. 1:28)
He gave absolute dominion to Adam and Eve. When He said “I give you authority and dominion,” He took His power—His right to rule and control the earth—and gave it to physical human beings. In a sense, He excluded Himself from ruling over the earth.
I know that’s a new wrinkle in some of your brains, but it’s true, and it answers many questions concerning the sovereignty of God. In the series I’m airing on the Gospel Truth this month, entitled The Word Became Flesh, I will teach more about God’s sovereignty and what that means to you.
In Psalm 15:4, the Bible says that a godly man will swear to his own hurt and change not. The word godly means like God. God will swear to His own hurt and change not. So, when Adam and Eve disobeyed God, He did not violate His word to save man from the terrible problems that would come from their decisions. Human beings were given this earth to do with as they saw fit. However, this did not catch God by surprise; He knew it was going to happen and already had a plan in place to reconcile man back unto Himself.
For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ. Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. (Rom. 5:17-19)
In Revelation 13:8, it says, “And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world” (underline mine).
These scriptures answer two very important questions: One, why did Jesus have to come to earth, and two, if it was necessary for Him to come, why did God wait 4,000 years to get Him here?
It was a man—a physical human being—who had been given authority on the earth by God. When man allowed himself to be deceived and when he yielded his power to Satan, he became, in a sense, joint-heirs with the devil. Satan has to work through a human being. Man, through his physical body, gave Satan authority on this earth.
Therefore, it was necessary for a man with a physical body to take back that authority.God had to become man, to give Him the authority to execute judgment on the earth: “And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man” (John 5:27).God cannot break or change His word, so He was restricted to act within the word He had already spoken.
But why did it take 4,000 years? Here is the logic: When God created the first man, He said, “Let us make man in our image” (Gen. 1:26). He literally spoke Adam’s body into existence. At that time, He had the legal right to do that because He had not yet given authority over this earth to man.
However, once He had given that authority to man, He could not leave him out of the equation. The last Adam, Jesus, would still have to be spoken into existence by God, but He would have to speak through man. God was no longer in direct control, and a man would have to become the voice of His words. Psalm 115:16 explains—
The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord’s: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.
That is a strong statement. In other words, everything outside of the earth belongs to God, but the earth He gave to the children of man. God literally placed restrictions on Himself through His own words. He had to work through people, and there were very few people sensitive enough to hear Him in their hearts and then prophesy what they heard.
God had to create the new Adam through words spoken by someone with a physical body. Galatians 4:4 says, “But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son.” If you study that out, it means at the appropriate moment. Until then, all the prophetic utterances hadn’t been spoken. Jesus could not come onto the scene until everything that had to be said was said.
For example, it had to be prophesied that Jesus would be born of a virgin. That was critical because Jesus would not be just a good man—Jesus was God manifest in the flesh. Through Mary, Jesus received a physical body, but it was the blood of God the Father flowing through Him. He was a God-man.
Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. (Luke 1:34-35)
Here is what I believed happened. Mary asked, “How’s this going to happen?” She wasn’t questioning the possibility; it was just the how. And the angel said that the word of God is the incorruptible seed:“All of the words spoken over 4,000 years, through hundreds of people, are going to conceive in you.” First Peter 1:23 says, “Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.”
The Greek word for “seed” in this scripture is spora. It comes from the same root word as sperma, which is talking about the seed of a man. The virgin birth of Jesus was completely natural in every respect except one: It was not the seed of a man. The seed was the word of God. The Word became flesh! All that had been prophesied about Jesus became the spora, or the seed.
Whether it’s literal or symbolic, I believe that each of us have a spiritual womb. We take the supernatural words of God—the seed of the miracles we need—and we meditate on them until they conceive, until we can see the result in our hearts. Then, when we can see it, we can speak it into existence. This is what Jesus was talking about in Mark 11:23:
For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.
God’s Word is living and alive. His Word is health unto all of your flesh and life to them that find it. He sent His Word to heal and deliver from destruction and more. And for those who will place His words in their hearts and allow those seeds to conceive, they will in time see the manifestation of what they believe and speak.
By Andrew Wommack
When God speaks, His words are binding—they’re like an unbreakable contract. He always says exactly what He means, He never lies, and He never says, “Whoops, I’ve changed My mind.”
Hebrews 1:3 says, “Upholding all things by the word of his power,” and Psalm 89:34 says, “My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.”
This entire universe is being held together by the power of God’s words. It was His word that created the earth and every living thing on it, and by His words, He created Adam and Eve. He didn’t make them or any part of this world with His hands; He spoke it all into existence. Then, after creating all of this, He said,
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. (Gen. 1:28)
He gave absolute dominion to Adam and Eve. When He said “I give you authority and dominion,” He took His power—His right to rule and control the earth—and gave it to physical human beings. In a sense, He excluded Himself from ruling over the earth.
I know that’s a new wrinkle in some of your brains, but it’s true, and it answers many questions concerning the sovereignty of God. In the series I’m airing on the Gospel Truth this month, entitled The Word Became Flesh, I will teach more about God’s sovereignty and what that means to you.
In Psalm 15:4, the Bible says that a godly man will swear to his own hurt and change not. The word godly means like God. God will swear to His own hurt and change not. So, when Adam and Eve disobeyed God, He did not violate His word to save man from the terrible problems that would come from their decisions. Human beings were given this earth to do with as they saw fit. However, this did not catch God by surprise; He knew it was going to happen and already had a plan in place to reconcile man back unto Himself.
For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ. Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. (Rom. 5:17-19)
In Revelation 13:8, it says, “And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world” (underline mine).
These scriptures answer two very important questions: One, why did Jesus have to come to earth, and two, if it was necessary for Him to come, why did God wait 4,000 years to get Him here?
It was a man—a physical human being—who had been given authority on the earth by God. When man allowed himself to be deceived and when he yielded his power to Satan, he became, in a sense, joint-heirs with the devil. Satan has to work through a human being. Man, through his physical body, gave Satan authority on this earth.
Therefore, it was necessary for a man with a physical body to take back that authority.God had to become man, to give Him the authority to execute judgment on the earth: “And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man” (John 5:27).God cannot break or change His word, so He was restricted to act within the word He had already spoken.
But why did it take 4,000 years? Here is the logic: When God created the first man, He said, “Let us make man in our image” (Gen. 1:26). He literally spoke Adam’s body into existence. At that time, He had the legal right to do that because He had not yet given authority over this earth to man.
However, once He had given that authority to man, He could not leave him out of the equation. The last Adam, Jesus, would still have to be spoken into existence by God, but He would have to speak through man. God was no longer in direct control, and a man would have to become the voice of His words. Psalm 115:16 explains—
The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord’s: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.
That is a strong statement. In other words, everything outside of the earth belongs to God, but the earth He gave to the children of man. God literally placed restrictions on Himself through His own words. He had to work through people, and there were very few people sensitive enough to hear Him in their hearts and then prophesy what they heard.
God had to create the new Adam through words spoken by someone with a physical body. Galatians 4:4 says, “But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son.” If you study that out, it means at the appropriate moment. Until then, all the prophetic utterances hadn’t been spoken. Jesus could not come onto the scene until everything that had to be said was said.
For example, it had to be prophesied that Jesus would be born of a virgin. That was critical because Jesus would not be just a good man—Jesus was God manifest in the flesh. Through Mary, Jesus received a physical body, but it was the blood of God the Father flowing through Him. He was a God-man.
Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. (Luke 1:34-35)
Here is what I believed happened. Mary asked, “How’s this going to happen?” She wasn’t questioning the possibility; it was just the how. And the angel said that the word of God is the incorruptible seed:“All of the words spoken over 4,000 years, through hundreds of people, are going to conceive in you.” First Peter 1:23 says, “Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.”
The Greek word for “seed” in this scripture is spora. It comes from the same root word as sperma, which is talking about the seed of a man. The virgin birth of Jesus was completely natural in every respect except one: It was not the seed of a man. The seed was the word of God. The Word became flesh! All that had been prophesied about Jesus became the spora, or the seed.
Whether it’s literal or symbolic, I believe that each of us have a spiritual womb. We take the supernatural words of God—the seed of the miracles we need—and we meditate on them until they conceive, until we can see the result in our hearts. Then, when we can see it, we can speak it into existence. This is what Jesus was talking about in Mark 11:23:
For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.
God’s Word is living and alive. His Word is health unto all of your flesh and life to them that find it. He sent His Word to heal and deliver from destruction and more. And for those who will place His words in their hearts and allow those seeds to conceive, they will in time see the manifestation of what they believe and speak.
Now the biblical account...
Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily. But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
(Mat 1:18-25)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(Joh 1:1)
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
(Joh 1:14)
It was God's spoken Word that was fulfilled concerning the birth of Christ. The prophets were vessels of that word not the cause.
Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily. But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
(Mat 1:18-25)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(Joh 1:1)
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
(Joh 1:14)
It was God's spoken Word that was fulfilled concerning the birth of Christ. The prophets were vessels of that word not the cause.
J
Despite what the apologists for these cult deceivers do to try and rehabilitate them, by belaboring and trying to make the entire issue a mere dispute over some single statement: this is a smokescreen. There are core, multiple deceptions at the heart of WoF, no sense even arguing for pages over how big the tip of the iceberg is. The entire religion is a fraud.
Here's a good writeup, from a reputable Christian website many refer to. Would add that it's clear many here don't want the teachings exposed, from the very mouths of those they champion. They remind me of some defense attorney, claiming the criminal didn't really confess what he clearly did on that tape recording. They would surely make better shysters than Christians, at this rate, or work some calling where truth exists only on the margins.
Word Faith movement Question: "Is the Word of Faith movement biblical?"
Answer: Word of Faith teaching is decidedly unbiblical. It is not a denomination and does not have a formal organization or hierarchy. Instead, it is a movement that is heavily influenced by a number of high-profile pastors and teachers such as Kenneth Hagin, Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, Paul and Jan Crouch, and Fred Price.
The Word of Faith movement grew out of the Pentecostal movement in the late 20th century. Its founder was E. W. Kenyon, who studied the metaphysical New Thought teachings of Phineas Quimby. Mind science (where "name it and claim it" originated) was combined with Pentecostalism, resulting in a peculiar mix of orthodox Christianity and mysticism. Kenneth Hagin, in turn, studied under E. W. Kenyon and made the Word of Faith movement what it is today. Although individual teachings range from completely heretical to completely ridiculous, what follows is the basic theology most Word of Faith teachers align themselves with.
At the heart of the Word of Faith movement is the belief in the "force of faith." It is believed words can be used to manipulate the faith-force, and thus actually create what they believe Scripture promises (health and wealth). Laws supposedly governing the faith-force are said to operate independently of God's sovereign will and that God Himself is subject to these laws. This is nothing short of idolatry, turning our faith—and by extension ourselves—into god.
From here, its theology just strays further and further from Scripture: it claims that God created human beings in His literal, physical image as little gods. Before the fall, humans had the potential to call things into existence by using the faith-force. After the fall, humans took on Satan's nature and lost the ability to call things into existence. In order to correct this situation, Jesus Christ gave up His divinity and became a man, died spiritually, took Satan's nature upon Himself, went to hell, was born again, and rose from the dead with God's nature. After this, Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to replicate the Incarnation in believers so they could become little gods as God had originally intended.
Following the natural progression of these teachings, as little gods we again have the ability to manipulate the faith-force and become prosperous in all areas of life. Illness, sin, and failure are the result of a lack of faith, and are remedied by confession—claiming God's promises for oneself into existence. Simply put, the Word of Faith movement exalts man to god-status and reduces God to man-status. Needless to say, this is a false representation of what Christianity is all about. Obviously, Word of Faith teaching does not take into account what is found in Scripture. Personal revelation, not Scripture, is highly relied upon in order to come up with such absurd beliefs, which is just one more proof of its heretical nature.
Countering Word of Faith teaching is a simple matter of reading the Bible. God alone is the Sovereign Creator of the Universe (Genesis 1:3; 1 Timothy 6:15) and does not need faith—He is the object of faith (Mark 11:22; Hebrews 11:3). God is spirit and does not have a physical body (John 4:24). Man was created in the image of God (Genesis 1:26, 27; 9:6), but this does not make him a little god or divine. Only God has a divine nature (Galatians 4:8; Isaiah 1:6-11, 43:10, 44:6; Ezekiel 28:2; Psalm 8:6-8). Christ is Eternal, the Only Begotten Son, and the only incarnation of God (John 1:1, 2, 14, 15, 18; 3:16; 1 John 4:1). In Him dwelt the fullness of the Godhead bodily (Colossians 2:9). By becoming a man, Jesus gave up the glory of heaven but not His divinity (Philippians 2:6-7), though He did choose to withhold His power while walking the earth as man.
The Word of Faith movement is deceiving countless people, causing them to grasp after a way of life and faith that is not biblical. At its core is the same lie Satan has been telling since the Garden: “You shall be as God” (Genesis 3:5). Sadly, those who buy into the Word of Faith movement are still listening to him. Our hope is in the Lord, not in our own words, not even in our own faith (Psalm 33:20-22). Our faith comes from God in the first place (Ephesians 2:8; Hebrews 12:2) and is not something we create for ourselves. So, be wary of the Word of Faith movement and any church that aligns itself with Word of Faith teachings.
Read more: Is the Word of Faith movement biblical?
Here's a good writeup, from a reputable Christian website many refer to. Would add that it's clear many here don't want the teachings exposed, from the very mouths of those they champion. They remind me of some defense attorney, claiming the criminal didn't really confess what he clearly did on that tape recording. They would surely make better shysters than Christians, at this rate, or work some calling where truth exists only on the margins.
Word Faith movement Question: "Is the Word of Faith movement biblical?"
Answer: Word of Faith teaching is decidedly unbiblical. It is not a denomination and does not have a formal organization or hierarchy. Instead, it is a movement that is heavily influenced by a number of high-profile pastors and teachers such as Kenneth Hagin, Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, Paul and Jan Crouch, and Fred Price.
The Word of Faith movement grew out of the Pentecostal movement in the late 20th century. Its founder was E. W. Kenyon, who studied the metaphysical New Thought teachings of Phineas Quimby. Mind science (where "name it and claim it" originated) was combined with Pentecostalism, resulting in a peculiar mix of orthodox Christianity and mysticism. Kenneth Hagin, in turn, studied under E. W. Kenyon and made the Word of Faith movement what it is today. Although individual teachings range from completely heretical to completely ridiculous, what follows is the basic theology most Word of Faith teachers align themselves with.
At the heart of the Word of Faith movement is the belief in the "force of faith." It is believed words can be used to manipulate the faith-force, and thus actually create what they believe Scripture promises (health and wealth). Laws supposedly governing the faith-force are said to operate independently of God's sovereign will and that God Himself is subject to these laws. This is nothing short of idolatry, turning our faith—and by extension ourselves—into god.
From here, its theology just strays further and further from Scripture: it claims that God created human beings in His literal, physical image as little gods. Before the fall, humans had the potential to call things into existence by using the faith-force. After the fall, humans took on Satan's nature and lost the ability to call things into existence. In order to correct this situation, Jesus Christ gave up His divinity and became a man, died spiritually, took Satan's nature upon Himself, went to hell, was born again, and rose from the dead with God's nature. After this, Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to replicate the Incarnation in believers so they could become little gods as God had originally intended.
Following the natural progression of these teachings, as little gods we again have the ability to manipulate the faith-force and become prosperous in all areas of life. Illness, sin, and failure are the result of a lack of faith, and are remedied by confession—claiming God's promises for oneself into existence. Simply put, the Word of Faith movement exalts man to god-status and reduces God to man-status. Needless to say, this is a false representation of what Christianity is all about. Obviously, Word of Faith teaching does not take into account what is found in Scripture. Personal revelation, not Scripture, is highly relied upon in order to come up with such absurd beliefs, which is just one more proof of its heretical nature.
Countering Word of Faith teaching is a simple matter of reading the Bible. God alone is the Sovereign Creator of the Universe (Genesis 1:3; 1 Timothy 6:15) and does not need faith—He is the object of faith (Mark 11:22; Hebrews 11:3). God is spirit and does not have a physical body (John 4:24). Man was created in the image of God (Genesis 1:26, 27; 9:6), but this does not make him a little god or divine. Only God has a divine nature (Galatians 4:8; Isaiah 1:6-11, 43:10, 44:6; Ezekiel 28:2; Psalm 8:6-8). Christ is Eternal, the Only Begotten Son, and the only incarnation of God (John 1:1, 2, 14, 15, 18; 3:16; 1 John 4:1). In Him dwelt the fullness of the Godhead bodily (Colossians 2:9). By becoming a man, Jesus gave up the glory of heaven but not His divinity (Philippians 2:6-7), though He did choose to withhold His power while walking the earth as man.
The Word of Faith movement is deceiving countless people, causing them to grasp after a way of life and faith that is not biblical. At its core is the same lie Satan has been telling since the Garden: “You shall be as God” (Genesis 3:5). Sadly, those who buy into the Word of Faith movement are still listening to him. Our hope is in the Lord, not in our own words, not even in our own faith (Psalm 33:20-22). Our faith comes from God in the first place (Ephesians 2:8; Hebrews 12:2) and is not something we create for ourselves. So, be wary of the Word of Faith movement and any church that aligns itself with Word of Faith teachings.
Read more: Is the Word of Faith movement biblical?
Not sure, but if I have an issue with someone I go directly to that person so the issue doesn't burn anger and resentment inside of me.
I can tell you are passionate about scripture and the Lord. I also know God can fight His own battles as well.
Acts 5:33-39 (ESV)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] When they heard this, they were enraged and wanted to kill them.
[SUP]34 [/SUP] But a Pharisee in the council named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law held in honor by all the people, stood up and gave orders to put the men outside for a little while.
[SUP]35 [/SUP] And he said to them, “Men of Israel, take care what you are about to do with these men.
[SUP]36 [/SUP] For before these days Theudas rose up, claiming to be somebody, and a number of men, about four hundred, joined him. He was killed, and all who followed him were dispersed and came to nothing.
[SUP]37 [/SUP] After him Judas the Galilean rose up in the days of the census and drew away some of the people after him. He too perished, and all who followed him were scattered.
[SUP]38 [/SUP] So in the present case I tell you, keep away from these men and let them alone, for if this plan or this undertaking is of man, it will fail;
[SUP]39 [/SUP] but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them. You might even be found opposing God!” So they took his advice,
If Andrew isn't from God then God won't bless him. What I see now in Andrews ministry is he is very much blessed by God. He couldn't have achieved the things he has without Gods Blessings. God will humble him if he steps away from His Word. Allow God to do this if Andrew is teaching false doctrine. You have expressed your view and your concern. Now it is up to God.
I can tell you are passionate about scripture and the Lord. I also know God can fight His own battles as well.
Acts 5:33-39 (ESV)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] When they heard this, they were enraged and wanted to kill them.
[SUP]34 [/SUP] But a Pharisee in the council named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law held in honor by all the people, stood up and gave orders to put the men outside for a little while.
[SUP]35 [/SUP] And he said to them, “Men of Israel, take care what you are about to do with these men.
[SUP]36 [/SUP] For before these days Theudas rose up, claiming to be somebody, and a number of men, about four hundred, joined him. He was killed, and all who followed him were dispersed and came to nothing.
[SUP]37 [/SUP] After him Judas the Galilean rose up in the days of the census and drew away some of the people after him. He too perished, and all who followed him were scattered.
[SUP]38 [/SUP] So in the present case I tell you, keep away from these men and let them alone, for if this plan or this undertaking is of man, it will fail;
[SUP]39 [/SUP] but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them. You might even be found opposing God!” So they took his advice,
If Andrew isn't from God then God won't bless him. What I see now in Andrews ministry is he is very much blessed by God. He couldn't have achieved the things he has without Gods Blessings. God will humble him if he steps away from His Word. Allow God to do this if Andrew is teaching false doctrine. You have expressed your view and your concern. Now it is up to God.
L
Thank you MoladhDia for posting that.
It gives the reader an idea of what Andrew Wommack said he believes about the subject here at hand. You gave what was asked from some of the people on this thread and then some., But alas, the new 'wrinkle in some folks brains' was too much to handle and they quickly dismissed anything said afterward regardless of your excellent post with AW explanations.
A. Wommack is an excellent preacher and teacher and I've been listening to him for about a year now. Have some of his commentaries too. I would encourage people, if they really want to know what the man preaches before posting what other sites 'say' he preaches, they should go to Andrew Wommacks site and read what 'he' says and what 'he' has written. Like you did here MoladhDia. Thanks again., I appreciate your Christian love and concern for the brethren. Lynn
Thank you MoladhDia for posting that. It gives the reader an idea of what Andrew Wommack said he believes about the subject here at hand. You gave what was asked from some of the people on this thread and then some.,
But alas, the new 'wrinkle in some folks brains' was too much to handle and they quickly dismissed anything said afterward regardless of your excellent post with AW explanations.
A. Wommack is an excellent preacher and teacher and I've been listening to him for about a year now. Have some of his commentaries too. I would encourage people, if they really want to know what the man preaches before posting what other sites 'say' he preaches, they should go to Andrew Wommacks site and read what 'he' says and what 'he' has written. Like you did here MoladhDia. Thanks again., I appreciate your Christian love and concern for the brethren. Lynn
It gives the reader an idea of what Andrew Wommack said he believes about the subject here at hand. You gave what was asked from some of the people on this thread and then some., But alas, the new 'wrinkle in some folks brains' was too much to handle and they quickly dismissed anything said afterward regardless of your excellent post with AW explanations.
A. Wommack is an excellent preacher and teacher and I've been listening to him for about a year now. Have some of his commentaries too. I would encourage people, if they really want to know what the man preaches before posting what other sites 'say' he preaches, they should go to Andrew Wommacks site and read what 'he' says and what 'he' has written. Like you did here MoladhDia. Thanks again., I appreciate your Christian love and concern for the brethren. Lynn
L
Just went to AW website and copied and pasted this. I hope if you actually want to know what he says and not what people say he says, you will read it from him and not others who only post parts and sections that can be totally taken out of contest. As I have heard many times concerning "context" if you do not have "context" you will have "CON" Also, just in case another accusation about having to pay for his material comes up., AW ministries gives free cds away. I used to get the free cds when I had no money and it helped me very much. So before accusing someone, please take the time to find out about them. Especially other brothers and sisters in Christ.
Is Jesus Enough
By Andrew Wommack
[TABLE="class: content, align: right"]Is Jesus Enough
By Andrew Wommack
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Would God send His only Son to bear our sin, becoming sin itself, and then judge Him without mercy for that sin if His sacrifice wasn’t enough? No! Yet, many Christians act as though it wasn’t enough and continue to believe God is withholding His blessing because of their sin. It’s time to learn the truth.Over the years I have ministered to thousands of people directly who just won’t let the Bible get in the way of their theology. Religious traditions and widely-accepted teaching have become the basis of their beliefs, rather than the Bible. The results are obvious: Their relationship with Christ is profiting them little or at the very least less than God intended.
These are people who have accepted Jesus as their Savior. Yet, they can’t get healed, they’re unhappy, depressed, fearful, and full of unbelief. That shouldn’t be! As you read, I encourage you to allow the Bible, God’s Word, to get right in the middle of your theology.
Let me start by making this radical statement. If you’re conscious of sin, then you truly don’t understand the grace of your salvation through Jesus. It sounds radical, but it’s true. That is totally different than the way most people think. I’m not saying this to hurt anybody, because I understand; I struggle with the same thing.
It’s different than what most of us have been told. But this is what God’s Word declares. God is not imputing, or laying to our account, our sin.
Second Corinthians 5:19 says,
“To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation,” (emphasis mine).
Sin consciousness has been ground into us. Grace is not the way of the world. Your employer doesn’t hire you by grace and promise to pay no matter what you do; they have expectations of performance. In marriage, spouses don’t always love each other unconditionally. Even in most Christian families, children are either rewarded or punished based on their performance.
In this earth almost everything is based on performance, and because it is, it always forces us to focus on our weaknesses. That performance mentality then transfers into religion where we’re taught to focus on our sin. However, where God is concerned, it’s just the opposite. In fact, sin isn’t even an issue with God. Why? Because our sin is not being imputed, or charged, to our account. It’s being charged to Jesus’ account, and He already paid the bill.
I know a lot of churches that would throw me out for saying that, but it’s what the Bible teaches. It’s time to let the Bible get in the way of wrong theology. Hebrews is one of my favorite books of the Bible. I wish I had space to put the whole book into context because it has a lot to say about how God dealt with sin.
Hebrews 9:11-12 says,
“But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us,” (emphasis mine).
If words mean anything, think about these words: Jesus entered in once! Do you know what once means in the Greek? It means once. It means He doesn’t do it over and over again. Every time you sin, the Lord doesn’t have to wait until you repent and then get that sin under the blood.
Most Christians believe that when you’re born again, you get your sins forgiven up to that point. Then, every time you sin after becoming a Christian, you’ve got to run to the Lord with that sin and confess and repent, or you could be lost. If not lost and on your way to hell, then at the very least, God would not fellowship with you, and He certainly wouldn’t answer your prayers.
If that were true, then everybody would be on their way to hell. There isn’t a person on this earth who doesn’t have either a known or an unknown unconfessed sin. Or, if sin just means the loss of relationship with God and unanswered prayers, then God wouldn’t have a single person qualified to receive an answer to prayer or fellowship with Him. Was Jesus enough or not?
This is a huge issue. It’s the reason many believe God isn’t healing them or prospering them. They say out of one side of their mouths that He loves them and sacrificed His Son, Jesus, for their salvation, and then out of the other side, they say that He is still judging them for sin. Those are incompatible!
Hebrews 9: 13-15 goes on to say,
“For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance,” (underlines mine).
It isn’t God who is condemning us when we sin; it’s our own consciences. We haven’t purged our consciences with the truth of what Jesus has done with sin. Satan knows that and is using it to condemn us and destroy our faith and confidence in God by reminding us we don’t deserve God’s blessing.
Praise God, He isn’t giving you what you deserve; He is giving you what Jesus deserves. Jesus paid for sin one time, past, present, and even the sins you will commit in the future. How can that be, you ask? I don’t know exactly, but let me tell you this, Jesus only died one time for our sins two thousand years ago, so you better hope He can forgive your sins before you commit them.
Hebrews 9:25-28 says,
“Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with the blood of others; For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgement: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many,” (emphasis mine).
God knows the end from the beginning and He knew all the sins of the whole world. Jesus paid for all those committed before His sacrifice and for all that had not yet been committed. He made the payment once and it will never be made again. The price for sin, all sin, has been paid!
We have received an eternal inheritance (Heb. 9:15) that cannot be taken away. Your inheritance is not temporary; it’s eternal. You aren’t disinherited and you don’t lose the benefits of being part of the family because of sin.
To understand this, you have to see yourself as God sees you. In your born-again spirit, you are as clean and holy and pure as Jesus is. Religion has you looking at your flesh. It has you searching the soulish realm of thoughts, attitudes, and feelings. But that is not what God is looking at. He is looking at your spirit, the part of you that’s become a new creation.
Second Corinthians 5:17 says,
“Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.”
And in John 4:24 we read,
“God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
What part of you is new? It’s not the flesh and it’s not the soul; it’s your born-again spirit. When you go to God in prayer and say “O God, I’m so ungodly and so unworthy, please forgive me, please answer my prayer,” you are not in the spirit; you are in the flesh. Your spirit is righteous, holy, and pure. Sin does not affect your spirit.
Am I saying sin is okay? Absolutely not! When you sin, you give Satan an open door to the soul, your mind and emotions, as well as opportunity to destroy your physical body. It’s just stupid to open yourself up to the devil.
Some of you may still be thinking, Well, I know God died once for all men, but His sacrifice still must be applied whenever we sin. Let’s allow God’s Word to get in the way of this wrong theology again.
Hebrews 10:10-12, 14 says,
“By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ
once for all. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified,” (emphasis mine).
This is not talking about your physical body or your soul; it’s talking about your born-again spirit. Your spirit is identical to the Lord Jesus Christ. It is sinless! Your soul and your body can be defiled by sin, but your spirit never can; it’s sealed forever.
Maturity in the Christian life isn’t about trying to grow your spirit up; it’s trying to educate, or renew, your mind to what you already have in your spirit. Your spirit is already perfect! You already have the fruit of the Spirit—love, joy, peace, long-suffering, and the rest. Your spirit is always happy, always rejoicing, and always healthy.
God loves you even though you’ve messed up, even though you aren’t perfect. He loves you not because of your performance but because of Jesus’ sacrifice. If you can ever get a revelation of what I am teaching, it will change the way you see God forever.
I have just completed a series that I know will help you settle this issue once and for all. This teaching series will give you a confidence in God that you have never experienced before. Self-condemnation will come to an end and your faith will explode. It’s called The War Is Over.
U
Alarmist propaganda? That is real footage taken directly from a movement that Oral Roberts endorsed and participated in.
As I expected you had no valid answer, just a dismissive attitude and a rude tone. You prove time and time again you cannot back up anything with facts, only gripe and complain about others while extolling yourself as righteous.
I knew within the first day of your joining this site what kind of user you would be me you have prove. My right time and time again. Your hypocrisy and inability to defend anything you stand for show me that people here are throwing pearls before swine by trying to discuss anything with you. Am I officially walking away from this as you have not proven yourself to have one valid justification on what you believe and defend. You merely have attacks and criticism while accusing others of the same thing.
I have provided evidence and you have responded with, essentially, "pfft yeah right. You're clueless". But not a coherent and biblical defense. Carry on in your pride and ignorance, but I, for one, will be saving my time and pearls for those who are capable of genuine communication.
As I expected you had no valid answer, just a dismissive attitude and a rude tone. You prove time and time again you cannot back up anything with facts, only gripe and complain about others while extolling yourself as righteous.
I knew within the first day of your joining this site what kind of user you would be me you have prove. My right time and time again. Your hypocrisy and inability to defend anything you stand for show me that people here are throwing pearls before swine by trying to discuss anything with you. Am I officially walking away from this as you have not proven yourself to have one valid justification on what you believe and defend. You merely have attacks and criticism while accusing others of the same thing.
I have provided evidence and you have responded with, essentially, "pfft yeah right. You're clueless". But not a coherent and biblical defense. Carry on in your pride and ignorance, but I, for one, will be saving my time and pearls for those who are capable of genuine communication.
