It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

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Delivery

Guest
When Adam and Eve transgressed in the Garden of Eden they died. And everybody since that time have been born dead.

5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

5:19 For as by one man's (Adam) disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one(Jesus) shall many be made righteous.

All men since the beginning of time were made sinners, and are doomed and condemned to die because of Adams transgression in the garden. But Jesus' Sacrifice and obedience makes us righteous and gives us eternal life,(Eternal security) if we just believe in Him. He frees us from sin.

Once you recieve Jesus, you are automatically and immediately passed from death unto life.

5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

You have life because you have Jesus because He is the life.

14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life,(Eternal Security) which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)

1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us:

2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have(You know that you have it right now) eternal life(Eternal Security), and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

You have eternal Life and the Life said He would never leave you nor forsake you nor cast you out. Eternal Security.

for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

13:6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.

10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

6:48 I am that bread of life.

You have eternal security because you have Jesus who rpomised never to leave you nor forsake you.
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
To Delivery, It is great to know the objective promises of God; But, it is quite another thing to KNOW if we have the subjective qualities or conditions, that enable us to claim the ,more or less, objective promises. The book of 1 John is full of SUBJECTIVE conditions to prove to our hearts that we have the right, saving faith and relationship with Jesus that makes us able to claim the OBJECTIVE promises to a believer in Jesus, to assure that our believing heart of having eternal life. Knowing about Jesus does not give us eternal like, eternal life is only received by living daily with Jesus, "received Him", is a past experience with a lasting relationship. Jh. 1:12. Love to all. Hoffco
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
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Romans 5 tells us that if we are unrighteous/sinful, it is because of connection to Adam.
But if we are righteous, it is because of connection to Christ.

Therefore, as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin; and so death passed unto all men, for that all sinned:— 13 for until the law sin was in the world; but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the likeness of Adam’s transgression, who is a figure of him that was to come.

15
But not as the trespass, so also is the free gift. For if by the trespass of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God, and the gift by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, abound unto the many. 16 And not as through one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment came of one unto condemnation, but the free gift came of many trespasses unto justification. 17 For if, by the trespass of the one, death reigned through the one; much more shall they that receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one, even Jesus Christ.

18
So then as through one trespass the judgment came unto all men to condemnation; even so through one act of righteousness the free gift came unto all men to justification of life. 19 For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many shall be made righteous.

Adam's sin caused mankind to be sinners. For those who trust Christ as Savior, His obedience makes them righteous. So we see that it is indeed obedience which is required for salvation -- Christ's obedience. He said, "Let this cup pass from Me, nevertheless, not my will but Yours. He went to that cross, the iniquity of us all was laid on Him. He cried out, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me?" But very soon He says cried out, "It is finished!" There was an earthquake; the veil of the Holy of Holies was rent.

And now the gospel of free eternal life is offered to any Who will trust Him as Savior. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, & you shall be saved.


When Adam and Eve transgressed in the Garden of Eden they died. And everybody since that time have been born dead.
5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

5:19 For as by one man's (Adam) disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one(Jesus) shall many be made righteous.

All men since the beginning of time were made sinners, and are doomed and condemned to die because of Adams transgression in the garden. But Jesus' Sacrifice and obedience makes us righteous and gives us eternal life,(Eternal security) if we just believe in Him. He frees us from sin.

Once you recieve Jesus, you are automatically and immediately passed from death unto life.

5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

You have life because you have Jesus because He is the life.

14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life,(Eternal Security) which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)

1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us:

2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have(You know that you have it right now) eternal life(Eternal Security), and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

You have eternal Life and the Life said He would never leave you nor forsake you nor cast you out. Eternal Security.

for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

13:6 So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.

10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

6:48 I am that bread of life.

You have eternal security because you have Jesus who rpomised never to leave you nor forsake you.
[/QUOTE]
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
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48
eternal life is only received by living daily [sic] with Jesus, "received Him", is a past experience with a lasting relationship. Jh. 1:12. Love to all. Hoffco
Eternal life is a free gift received upon trusting Christ as Savior. Everyone who believes in Him is to know that they have eternal life. 1 John 5. If it were received by living daily, that would be the forbidden salvation by works, daily works. Salvation is the result of one grand work by Christ on the Cross. It is finished. The Sheep (everyone who believes) have eternal life & never perish. They are not like pieces of fruit that have to be in the refrigerator every day to keep from perishing. They never perish.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
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When Adam and Eve transgressed in the Garden of Eden they died. And everybody since that time have been born dead.
They smell like it too.

(However, I would qualify the above & say "conceived dead.")
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
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Alligator:
You should repent for even being on this forum
You should repent (change mind) from not trusting the Savior (considering him a mere chance-giver) and from trusting human works -- change your mind to trusting the Lord Jesus as your only & sufficient Savior.
 
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Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
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Invitation to Those Who Reject the Savior for "Chance-Giver"

Invitation to Those Who Are Rejecting the Lord Jesus As Savior, Insisting That He Is a mere Chance-Giver:

Come, ye sinners, poor and needy,
Weak and wounded, sick and sore;
Jesus ready stands to save you,
Full of pity, love and power.


View Him prostrate in the garden;
On the ground your Maker lies.
On the bloody tree behold Him;
Sinner, will this not suffice?

Lo! th’incarnate God ascended,
Pleads the merit of His blood:
Venture on Him, venture wholly,
Let no other trust intrude.


Let not conscience make you linger,
Not of fitness fondly dream;
All the fitness He requireth
Is to feel your need of Him.


Come, ye thirsty, come, and welcome,
God’s free bounty glorify;
True belief, yea true repentance,
Every grace that brings you nigh.

Come, ye weary, heavy laden,
Lost and ruined by the fall;
If you tarry till you’re better,
You will never come at all.


Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sins.
 
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One of us is confused. One moment you say works do not save and in the next you say without them you are not saved???
Works does not save you initially but once you are saved, you are created unto good works if you don't do what you are created for you will be cast into the fire.

A lot like asking how long is eternal life. Grace and works do not mix. Grace is wholly sufficient to save and to preserve throughout all of eternity. Either you are saved by grace or you are not saved. If you are saved by grace you are saved for all of eternity.
by grace through faith..... and faith without works is dead

Works flow out from grace not back into grace. We cannot judge another's salvation because grace works in the heart and no man can know what is in the heart of another man.
you just said grace and works don't mix...now you say works flow out of grace...that is called babbling
For the cause of Christ
Roger
That is what the scripture says We are saved by grace, divine favour nothing we did....through (...continuing in time toward completion of) faith. And faith without works is dead.
 
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Eternal life is a free gift received upon trusting Christ as Savior. Everyone who believes in Him is to know that they have eternal life. 1 John 5. If it were received by living daily, that would be the forbidden salvation by works, daily works. Salvation is the result of one grand work by Christ on the Cross. It is finished. The Sheep (everyone who believes) have eternal life & never perish. They are not like pieces of fruit that have to be in the refrigerator every day to keep from perishing. They never perish.
Eternal life is in Christ ...if we are in Christ we have eternal life, if we are not in Christ have no eternal ....you can believe how much you want...We have to be in Christ and him in us just as He was in the Father and the Father in Him and he was obedient unto death. Likewise we must be obedient to his words and walk as he walked.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.
 
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Powemm

Guest
[SUP]Matthew 22:36
[/SUP][SUP]36 [/SUP]“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
To newbirth, you are a very patient man, I have about LOST all patience with Atwood, He seems to be sooo entrenched in his one sidedness, that no scriptures we quote can get into his mind. After 50 yrs of butting heads with the "faith only" camp, I have given up on them every seeing the WHOLE truth. Love Hoffco
 
D

Delivery

Guest
To Delivery, It is great to know the objective promises of God; But, it is quite another thing to KNOW if we have the subjective qualities or conditions, that enable us to claim the ,more or less, objective promises. The book of 1 John is full of SUBJECTIVE conditions to prove to our hearts that we have the right, saving faith and relationship with Jesus that makes us able to claim the OBJECTIVE promises to a believer in Jesus, to assure that our believing heart of having eternal life. Knowing about Jesus does not give us eternal like, eternal life is only received by living daily with Jesus, "received Him", is a past experience with a lasting relationship. Jh. 1:12. Love to all. Hoffco
The only "subjective" conditions that I find in the book of IJohn that assure our hearts that we have obtained God's "objective " promise of Eternal Life is to believe on Jesus and Love one another.

3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Once we believe in Jesus we can rest assured that we have Eternal life. Our personal walk with Jesus is an ongoing relationship that lasts forever and continues everyday. But being assured of our eternal life is not an ongoing process. Eternal life is something that is immediately granted to us the second we receive Jesus. We know we have eternal life because we have Jesus. Just as the apostle John said.
 
Mar 28, 2014
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To newbirth, you are a very patient man, I have about LOST all patience with Atwood, He seems to be sooo entrenched in his one sidedness, that no scriptures we quote can get into his mind. After 50 yrs of butting heads with the "faith only" camp, I have given up on them every seeing the WHOLE truth. Love Hoffco
You should not lose patience with anyone bro even when you feel like giving up...the issue is not with the brother but with the doctrine Atwood seems very focused to me albeit in another direction...God will open his eyes
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
[SUP]4 [/SUP](For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
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Eternal Security Is Not Libertinism

Getting there and almost, Love ya bro
Dear Kerry,

I came across something I thought you would appreciate. It is by Joseph Hart who lived around 1750 and wrote a book of hymns, including one of my favorites, "Come Ye Sinners, Poor and Needy."

Hart apparently went through a libertine phase before he was saved when he justified gross sin on the grounds of presumed Eternal Security. Being raised apparently in a religious community which affirmed Eternal Security, he accepted the doctrine without being saved (as I take it), and proceeded to live a sinful life with a hard heart. In the preface to his hymn book he gives his testimony. I find it interesting. The Hymn Book has the title Hymns, &c. Composed on Various Subjects. I understand that the hymns are in chronological order; so they somewhat chronicle his spiritual journey. The hymn I like is #100.

The link I will post has a photocopy style copy of his work, and it thus often uses the archaic font in which s looks like f (being like a f with only the left part of the cross member). I found the hymnal on Amazon & plan to buy it. Maybe you too will find it interesting.
I post the URL or link below:

Hymns, &c. composed on various subjects
 
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Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
That is what the scripture says We are saved by grace, divine favour nothing we did....through (...continuing in time toward completion of) faith. And faith without works is dead.
Dear NewB,

I am not quite sure what you mean by "completion of faith." Scripture divided mankind into those who believe & those who do not believe; so I don't know from where a concept of completion of faith would come.

17 For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him. 18 He that believeth on him is not judged: he that believeth not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The point is that per Eph 2 the order is:

1) wicked sinner who disbelieves with no good works, dead in sin,
2) sinner has faith in the Savior,
3) sinner is transformed to a good-work generator.

faith >salvation >works


 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
Eternal life is in Christ ...if we are in Christ we have eternal life, if we are not in Christ have no eternal
And to get that eternal life with a new nature, one must believe in the Son of God (John 3:16).

....you can believe how much you want...
I hope you aren't sneering at trusting the Savior.

We have to be in Christ and him in us just [sic] as He was in the Father and the Father in Him
From where do you get that word "just"? We cannot duplicate the relationship within the Trinity. "As" is correct, "just as" is unscriptural.

we must be obedient to
All of the commandments we receive are must-be's. But there is only one must-I-do to be saved.

Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, & you shall be saved.

his words and walk as he walked.
Well, NewB, what will we do since we do not walk as He walked???
He is absolutely perfect and never had any sin nature (Old Man Flesh).

whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;
Whatsoever allows for no exceptions, NewB.

Add in Do all things without grumbling and complaining.

Now NewB, since we are never living up to those standards, how do you expect to escape the Lake of Fire?

BTW, don't confuse rewards that Christians get for works with salvation.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
To newbirth, you are a very patient man, I have about LOST all patience with Atwood, He seems to be sooo entrenched in his one sidedness, that no scriptures we quote can get into his mind. After 50 yrs of butting heads with the "faith only" camp, I have given up on them every seeing the WHOLE truth. Love Hoffco
For by grace you are saved through faith.

Now butt up your head vs scripture:

"

1 Peter 1
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
1 John 5:10-13
Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Ephesians 1:13
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
John 6:40
For this is the will of my Father, that every one that beholdeth the Son, and believes on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
joy,
1 Peter 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
John 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believes that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

JOHN 20:30
Many other signs therefore did Jesus in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book: 31 but these are written, that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye may have life in his name.

Act 13:48
And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief: 16 howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me as chief might Jesus Christ show forth all his longsuffering, for an ensample of them that should thereafter believe on him unto eternal life.
1 Tim 1:15-17
Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief: howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me as chief might Jesus Christ show forth all his longsuffering, for an ensample of them that should thereafter believe on him unto eternal life.

1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you, that ye may know that ye have eternal life, even unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God.
Eph 1:10ff
to sum up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth; in him, I say in whom also we were made a heritage, having been foreordained according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his will; 12 to the end that we should be unto the praise of his glory, we who had before hoped in Christ: 13 in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth, the gospel of your salvation,— in whom, having also believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 which is an earnest of our inheritance, unto the redemption of God’s own possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Luke 8:11-12
Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 And those by the way side are they that have heard; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word from their heart, that they may not believe and be saved.
Acts 16:31
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, thou and thy house.
1 Cor 1:21
it was God’s good pleasure through the foolishness of the preaching to save them that believe.
Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh shall be justified.

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up; that whosoever believes may in him have eternal life.

John 3:14-18

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whosoever believes on him should not perish, but have eternal life. 1For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him. 1He that believes on him is not judged: he that believes not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only Son of God.
John 5:24
2Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believes him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life.
John 6:47
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believes hath eternal life.

John 10:27
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who hath given them unto me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

1 John 5:10-12
He that believes on the Son of God hath the witness in him: he that believes not God hath made him a liar; because he hath not believed in the witness that God hath borne concerning his Son. And the witness is this, that God gave unto us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath the life; he that hath not the Son of God hath not the life.
Ps 37:5-6
Commit thy way unto Jehovah;
Trust also in him, and he will bring it to pass.
And he will make thy righteousness to go forth as the light,
And thy justice as the noonday.


Acts 15:8

And God, who knoweth the heart, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us; and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

Acts 26:18b

that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among them that are sanctified by faith in me.

Rom 1:16-17
For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believes; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.

Rom 3:21-30

But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; 24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God; 26 for the showing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus. 27 Where then is the glorying? It is excluded. By what manner of law? of works? Nay: but by a law of faith. 28 We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yea, of Gentiles also: 30 if so be that God is one, and he shall justify the circumcision by faith, and the uncircumcision through faith.

Rom 4:1ff

:1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, hath found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not toward God. 3 For what saith the scripture? And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh, the reward is not reckoned as of grace, but as of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believes on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is reckoned for righteousness. 6 Even as David also pronounceth blessing upon the man, unto whom God reckoneth righteousness apart from works, 7 saying,
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not reckon sin.

9 Is this blessing then pronounced upon the circumcision, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say, To Abraham his faith was reckoned for righteousness. 10 How then was it reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision: 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while he was in uncircumcision: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be in uncircumcision, that righteousness might be reckoned unto them; 12 and the father of circumcision to them who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham which he had in uncircumcision. 13 For not through the law was the promise to Abraham or to his seed that he should be heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if they that are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise is made of none effect: 15 for the law worketh wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there transgression. 16 For this cause it is of faith, that it may be according to grace; to the end that the promise may be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (as it is written, A father of many nations have I made thee) before him whom he believed, even God, who giveth life to the dead, and calleth the things that are not, as though they were. 18 Who in hope believed against hope, to the end that he might become a father of many nations, according to that which had been spoken, So shall thy seed be. 19 And without being weakened in faith he considered his own body now as good as dead (he being about a hundred years old), and the deadness of Sarah’s womb; 20 yet, looking unto the promise of God, he wavered not through unbelief, but waxed strong through faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully assured that what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22 Wherefore also it was reckoned unto him for righteousness.

Rom 5:1-2
Being therefore justified by faith, let us have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ; through whom also we have had our access by faith into this grace wherein we stand; and let us boast in hope of the glory of God.
Rom 9:30:
What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, who followed not after righteousness, attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith: but Israel, following after a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by works. They stumbled at the stone of stumbling; even as it is written,
Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence:
And he that believes on him shall not be put to shame.

Rom 10:4ff

For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to every one that believes. For Moses writeth that the man that doeth the righteousness which is of the law shall live thereby. But the righteousness which is of faith saith thus, Say not in thy heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down:) or, Who shall descend into the abyss? (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.


Gal 2:15-16
We being Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 yet knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we believed on Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

It takes 2 posts to present my complete faith file.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
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New NewB,

The issue is that one must cease from relegating the Lord Jesus to a mere chance-giver and actually trust Him as Savior, trusting Him with one's life and eternal destiny.

One must cease from one's own works and rest in the Savior to be saved.

Come to Me all you who labor and are heavy laden, . . . and I will give you rest.

even as the Holy Spirit saith,
To-day if ye shall hear his voice,
8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation,
Like as in the day of the trial in the wilderness,
9 Where your fathers tried me by proving me,
And saw my works forty years.
10 Wherefore I was displeased with this generation,
And said, They do always err in their heart:
But they did not know my ways;
11 As I sware in my wrath,
They shall not enter into my rest.
. . .
18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that were disobedient? 19 And we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief.


Heb. 4:1
Let us fear therefore, lest haply, a promise being left of entering into his rest, any one of you should seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed we have had good tidings preached unto us, even as also they: but the word of hearing did not profit them, because it was not united by faith with them that heard. 3 For we who have believed do enter into that rest; even as he hath said,
As I sware in my wrath,
They shall not enter into my rest:
although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he hath said somewhere of the seventh day on this wise, And God rested on the seventh day from all his works; 5 and in this place again,
They shall not enter into my rest.
. . .


Heb. 4:8
For if Joshua had given them rest, he would not have spoken afterward of another day. 9 There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest hath himself also rested from his works, as God did from his. 11 Let us therefore give diligence to enter into that rest, that no man fall after the same example of disobedience.

It is not optional. This command must be obeyed if one is ever to be saved:

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.

He who has downgraded the Lord Jesus to chance-giver and wants to be his own savior by his own works, is warned to trust the Lord Jesus as Savior, to rest by faith in the Savior.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus,
for He shall save His people from their sins.
 
Mar 28, 2014
4,300
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Dear NewB,

I am not quite sure what you mean by "completion of faith." Scripture divided mankind into those who believe & those who do not believe; so I don't know from where a concept of completion of faith would come.

17 For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him. 18 He that believeth on him is not judged: he that believeth not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The point is that per Eph 2 the order is:

1) wicked sinner who disbelieves with no good works, dead in sin,
2) sinner has faith in the Savior,
3) sinner is transformed to a good-work generator.

faith >salvation >works


We are saved by Grace through faith we have to define what "by" means and what" through" means. So where we see those word we can apply the definition...
take vs 17 for instance if you don't know what through him means, your understanding of vs 18 will be limited because you believe in him but you don't understand what it means to be saved through him
 
D

Delivery

Guest
" Knowing about Jesus does not give us eternal life"

You're right, knowing about Jesus does not give us eternal life. We have to know Jesus, not just know all about Him. So, how do you know Jesus verses simply knowing about Him? My answer to that is: by trusting in Him 100% for your salvation instead of trusting in yourself and your own righteous ability to obey and be sinless and do the right things in order to keep and retain your salvation. You cannot really know Jesus in the way He wants you to know Him if you are depending on yourself and your own righteous ability to obey Him in order to earn your right to Heaven. Take those verses in Mathew 7:

7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

A lot of people take these verses out of context and try to say that this proves you can't just believe and say Lord, Lord but you have to do a lot more works and stuff. But that's just the opposite of what it says. In the second verse we see a bunch of people boasting about all the works and good deeds they did for the Lord. Get the point? These verses are about people who thought that "doing many wonderful works in Jesus name" will help them earn their Salvation. They depended on there own abilities, and righteous acts and good deeds to save them instead of 100% on the Lord's grace, Love, and mercy. Therefore they didn't really know the Lord and couldn't have a personal relationship with Him. So, what is the Father's will?
Believe on His Son Jesus Christ and trust Him fully for your Salvation. You will never know the Lord and have that personal relationship with Him that you want to have unless you do.