It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

newbirth · Aug 8, 2014

yes believe...demons believe and tremble...you just believe...faith without works is dead...

not sneering just saying if you trust you will obey...

I am talking fellowship bro....but if you want to be contentious take away the 'just'.....That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

I am sorry you feel that way about obeying the Lord...How do you abide in his love without keeping his commandments?

This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

if the same spirit that raised Christ from the dead dwells in you...which is easier to give you the power not to sin or to raise the dead?
you allow no exceptions but God is rich in mercy...If God says we can then we can If we stumble he is our help in times of need.

You don't know what it means to believe....

Delivery · Aug 8, 2014

8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Some people use this verse to try to justify their Salvation by works trip and that you can lose your Salvation if you're not walking in the spirit enough. But people who misinterpret this verse like that must think that "walking in the spirit" is a work of the flesh.

First of all why is there "no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus?" Because once you are saved you are not condemned anymore for your sins and mistakes and things you do wrong. You are forgiven for them. You have eternal life. Eternal security.

Secondly, what does it mean to "walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit? What does it mean to be "in the spirit". Paul explains it a few verses later:

8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

You are in the Spirit because the spirit of God dwells in you. Not because you have done a bunch of good works, or kept a bunch of commandments, (except for the one commandment to believe in God's Son, Jesus Christ) The spirit of God dwells in you because Jesus dwells in you, Jesus dwells in you because you believe that He came into the world and died for your sins and rose again from the dead. It has nothing to do with how you act. Every single true, born again, saved Christian is "walking in the spirit". Because the spirit of God dwells in them.

Jesus_Loves_You · Aug 8, 2014

Thank you! Finally someone who gets it!

Atwood · Aug 8, 2014

Delivery said:

Good afternoon Delivery.
I am reminded of the 1970's song, I think sung by Evie, Special Delivery.

Surely you must know that the best texts do not have the red addition to the text.

The clause "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit" is a spurious addition to the original text, as if there were some special spiritual subgroup within the Body of Christ (those in Christ Jesus) who have condemnation.

No one in the Body of Christ is condemned to any condemnation including any condemnation to the carnal state just described in Romans 7.

Christ bore our condemnation on the cross; He bore our "My God, my God, . . . forsaken me."

The text, as you probably know, goes on to take to task anyone trying to condemn believers in Christ. Who is he who condemns? Implied answer, No One! [except some heretics who post on the internet, etc.].

Atwood · Aug 8, 2014

newbirth said:

To the contrary, dear NewB, you appear to me to be the disbeliever, trusting in your obedience & good works. You seem to be one who has disbelieved that the Lord Jesus is SAvior, and insist that He is only a chance-giver.

Beware of bearing false witness. Demons believe facts, they do not trust the Lord Jesus as Savior, as I do.

My faith has found a resting place,
Not in device or creed,
I trust the everliving One,
His wounds for me shall plead;
I need no other argument,
I need no other plea;
it is enough that Jesus died,
And that He died for me.

Give it up, NewB, surrender to the love of Christ. Trust in Him as your only & sufficient Savior. His arms are stretched out towards you: Come to me all you who labor & are heavy-laden, . . . & I will give you rest.

Atwood · Aug 8, 2014

newbirth said:

You keep going on about works, making false accusations. The order is faith > Salvation > works.

Is it not the case that in fact you have no good works, only a sinful old man nature that needs saving? No one can be saved by good works because an unregenerate pagan or an unregenerate religionist or an unregenerate church member has NO good works at all.
How is it that an unregenerate man would go on & on about the necessity of works? A man has no good works until he stop trusting in his own good works & depends on the savior.

By grace -- that is God's part; we don't deserve it. Works is the opposite of grace through faith. Faith is the instrument by which a man is saved:

Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved.

NewB,
cease the striving & the quibbling about this or that. Rest in the love of the Lord Jesus. Repent of considering Him must a chance-giver; trust Him as your only & sufficient Savior now.

Hoffco · Aug 8, 2014

There is no condemnation in Christ because: 1. We are under His blood. 2. We are controlled by His Spirit and no longer controlled by the sinful flesh nature, because we are born of God, with God's nature in us, so we love and walk in God's commandments. That is the truth of Rom.chs. 1,2, 5:19-ch.8.(Rom.3,4,5:18, teach Justification.) There is no salvation to those who only believe. We must be transformed and forgive to be saved. Love to all, Hoffco

newbirth · Aug 8, 2014

Delivery said:

[SUP]11 [/SUP]But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

It is important to study the whole letter and not only a few verses to suit a doctrine...do you know what mortify means?
Do you know what quicken means? You don't know God through the HS made our mortal body alive unto him and calls it his temple? That is why we have to bring the body under control and in obedience to the spirit. It is wrong to say it has nothing to do with how we act...but if ye through the Spirit do mortify(discipline) the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

newbirth · Aug 8, 2014

Atwood said:

By grace -- that is God's part; we don't deserve it. Works is the opposite of grace through faith. Faith is the instrument by which a man is saved

faith without works is dead) you can't get away from the truth Atwood. There you said it faith is the instrument by which man is saved.....James is telling you faith without works is dead....

like I said before you don't know what it is to believe

.
this and that is the difference between life and death

the scripture still says we are saved by grace through faith and faith without works is dead....it will still be the same tomorrow...

Atwood · Aug 8, 2014

newbirth said:

Nothing wrong with that post, NewB. Good post.

newbirth · Aug 8, 2014

Atwood said:

It is not about good post or bad post it is about the truth...you have not admitted to it as truth, so it is just a side step as you did before when you don't have an answer... these are your words

Will you continue in the quest for truth or will you be looking for a greek verb to support your doctrine.

Atwood · Aug 9, 2014

newbirth said:

It is not about good post or bad post it is about the truth...you have not admitted to it as truth, so it is just a side step as you did before when you don't have an answer... these are your words]/quote]

Well, I thought that the below was a good post:

Do you object to my agreeing with something you posted, NewB?

Don't sneer at the original language, NewB. The Lord gave us the NT in Greek -- that was His decision. That means we have to do some of the ol' "study to show yourself approved" routine to understand it.
Why don't you do what I did, O NewB? I took a year or so to read through the entire Bible, cover to cover, an ASV 1901, and marked in pink all the salvation verses. Study requires analysis of individual verses with consultation of original language, and synthesis: comparing everything said on the subject to see how it all fits together.

But actually salvation is an obvious doctrine as in Eph 2. We just have to believe it, even if it is an offense to the pride of man who wants his works validated, the man who doesn't confess that he is so depraved that he must be saved by grace or forever be damned.

Consider the folly of refusing the free gift of eternal life just to maintain pride on one's own alleged good works.

Eph. 2:1
And you did he make alive, when ye were dead through your trespasses and sins, 2 wherein ye once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the powers of the air, of the spirit that now worketh in the sons of disobedience; 3 among whom we also all once lived in the lusts of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest:—

4 but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved), 6 and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus: 7 that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus:

8 for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not of works, that no man should glory. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.

---------------

1. COME, ye sinners, poor and wretched,
Weak and wounded, sick and sore,
Jesus ready stands to save you,
Full of pity joined with power;
He is able, He is able,
He is willing; doubt no more;
He is able, He is able,
He is willing; doubt no more.

2. Ho! ye needy, come and welcome,
God’s free bounty glorify;
True belief and true repentance,
Every grace that brings us nigh,
Without money, without money,
Come to Jesus Christ and buy!
Without money, without money,
Come to Jesus Christ and buy!

3. Let not conscience make you linger,
Nor of fitness fondly dream;
All the fitness He requireth
Is to feel your need of Him;
This He gives you, this He gives you;
‘Tis the Spirit’s rising beam;
This He gives you, this He gives you;
‘Tis the Spirit’s rising beam.

4. Come, ye weary, heavy laden,
Bruised and mangled by the fall;
If you tarry till you’re better,
You will never come at all!
Not the righteous, not the righteous,
Sinners Jesus came to call;
Not the righteous, not the righteous,
Sinners Jesus came to call.

5. View Him agonizing* in the garden;
Lo! your Maker prostrate lies;
On the bloody tree behold Him;
Hear Him cry, before He dies;
“It is finished!” “It is finished!”
Sinner, will not this suffice?
“It is finished!” “It is finished!”
Sinner, will not this suffice?

6. Lo! the incarnate God ascended,
Pleads the merits of His blood;
Venture on Him, venture wholly,
Let no other trust intrude;
None but Jesus, none but Jesus,
Can do helpless sinners good;
None but Jesus, none but Jesus,
Can do helpless sinners good.

7. Saints and angels, joined in concert,
Sing the praises of the Lamb;
While the blissful seats of heaven
Sweetly echo with His name;
Hallelujah! Hallelujah!
Sinners here may sing the same;
Hallelujah! Hallelujah!
Sinners here may sing the same.

newbirth · Aug 9, 2014

Atwood said:

Not sneering Atwood...What good has your study done for you ,since you still follow a doctrine of man. Your faith is not in God it is in a doctrine of man. You lean toward your own understanding, your pink markings. Notice how you quote incomplete...we are saved by grace through faith...that is how it works. And faith without works is dead.
You don't even know how God's plan for eternal life works...
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

Atwood · Aug 9, 2014

newbirth said:

You can't keep yourself loving God until you trust the SAvior and get a new loving heart. And indeed, let us all focus on the mercy of the Lord Jesus which leads to eternal life, not a chance at it if we are good boys.

Repent, NewB, & trust the SAvior to save you.

My faith has found a resting place,
Not in device or creed;
I trust the ever-living ONe,
His wounds for me shall plead;

I need no other argument;
I need no other plea;
It is enough that Jesus died,
& that He died for me.

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="class: chorus"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

2

[/TD]
[TD]Enough for me that Jesus saves,
This ends my fear and doubt;
A sinful soul I come to Him,
He’ll never cast me out.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

3

[/TD]
[TD]My heart is leaning on the Word,
The written Word of God,
Salvation by my Savior’s name,
Salvation through His blood.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]

4

[/TD]
[TD]My great Physician heals the sick,
The lost He came to save;
For me His precious blood He shed,
For me His life He gave.

I need no other argument;
I need no other plea;
It is enough that Jesus died,
& that He died for me.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

newbirth · Aug 9, 2014

Atwood said:

And you can't do anything without faith and faith without works is dead

Atwood · Aug 10, 2014

newbirth said:

The order is NOT: My self-righteous good works then Salvation. It is impossible for an unregenerate sinner to produce good works.
saved through faith; and that not of yourselves

The order is:
trust the Lord Jesus as Savior > regeneration/salvation > good works.

not of works, that no man should glory.

Eph. 2:1
And you did he make alive, when ye were dead through your trespasses and sins, 2 wherein ye once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the powers of the air, of the spirit that now worketh in the sons of disobedience; 3 among whom we also all once lived in the lusts of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest:—

4 but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved), 6 and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus: 7 that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus:

8 for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not of works, that no man should glory. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.

Skinski7 · Aug 10, 2014

Delivery said:

Right there is Satan's lie of "you can sin and not surely die." Have you ever considered that you are preaching Satan's lie as truth?

The truth is that the wages of sin is death and the wages of sin always will be death. Salvation has nothing to do with leaving someone in an uncondemnable state whereby ongoing sin does not reap sins wages. That is a doctrine of death.

The gift of God is eternal life THROUGH Jesus Christ (Rom 6:23). It is the Spirit of life IN Jesus Christ which sets one free from the law of sin and death (wages of sin is death) because when abiding in the Spirit an individual is no longer sinning against God but is doing His will from the heart.

Paul wrote...

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Who do we yield to? That is who we belong to. Our deeds prove our repentance. Our deeds prove whether we have submitted ourselves to Christ. We either obey the form of doctrine once delivered or we do not. It is through abiding in this doctrine that we become the servants of righteousness. Hence...

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

No condemnation for who? We who WALK after the Spirit and thus have the righteousness of the law fulfilled INSIDE us.

Faith does not void the law like the false teachers believe (ie. they falsely believe faith in Jesus enacts a provision which cloaks ongoing sin as the righteous requirements of the law were nailed to the cross), rather faith establishes the law in the heart.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

We don't lie, cheat or steal because our hearts have been made clean. It is out of a clean heart that we manifest good fruit because the tree has been made good.

Mat 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.

Delivery said:

You are teaching pagan gnosticism layered with Biblical rhetoric. Somehow you have bought into the idea that "walking in the Spirit" is an abstract principle apart from "obedience from the heart." Thus you are teaching the dualist notion that the one can manifestly do evil in the flesh body but that the spirit can remain pure at the same time.

That is gnostic dualism and it is dangerous false teaching. Most modern theology is a layered deception premised upon the foundational beliefs of gnostic philosophy, particularly the notion of a "dual nature" where the "flesh is intrinsically evil" (ie. you are born a depraved sinner).

Nothing to do with how you act? Is that what Jesus taught?

Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
Joh 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
Joh 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
Joh 15:9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
Joh 15:11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
Joh 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

James taught...

Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Yet you are teaching the opposite.

Skinski7 · Aug 10, 2014

Atwood said:

The order is this...

Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

The order is this...

Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Act_26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

It is nonsense to believe that it is impossible for the unregenerate to produce good works. The unregenerate need to repent and forsake their rebellion to God and in yielding to God they will be guided into all truth as servants of righteousness.

Regeneration can only occur if an individual yields themselves to God from the heart.

Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Yes it it by God's grace that He quickens us. Yes His grace is freely given. Yes we don't deserve it. Yes we cannot boast in the grace of God. But in order for the grace of God to be effectual in the saving of the soul we have to cooperate with its leading. We have to submit ourselves to God and that is our first works which flows out of repentance.

Folks like you continually deny all that. You have your package salvation which cloaks ongoing vice having rejected manifest salvation which has cleaned the heart.

Atwood · Aug 10, 2014

Skinski7 said:

Not one verse you presented says that good works come before salvation or are a condition of salvation. And you cannot quote one verse that ever says it. But scripture tells us that human works do not bring salvation.

Not of works, lest anyone should boast!

The Word of God is not a human work, but a word of God. God does many works to save the sinner & to keep the Christian saved.'

Repentance = metanoia = change of mind. The only repentance (change of mind) that saves is from non-belief to belief. Metanoia is not being sorry for sin or turning over a new leaf.
Metanoia is not something separate from belief.

There is but one condition on man for salvation, one MUST I DO.

Sirs, what MUST I DO to be saved?

Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved! No ifs, ands, or buts. No additions or subtractions.

Not of works, lest anyone should boast!

Atwood · Aug 10, 2014

Skinski7 said:

Great scripture. There is no water baptism there. When believers are Spirit baptized (1 Cor 12:13) they are joined to Christ, made part of His body. Thus what happened to Him is attributed to believers as well, as being co-crucified with Christ -- believers thus were co-crucified & co-raised from the dead with Him. Being dead in sins, we had no good works before salvation. We are forgiven all our trespasses! It is a great package deal! It includes eternal life. This Spirit baptism is ours through faith. It is God's working, not human.

Water baptism is a human work. And we are not saved by human works.

Not of works, lest anyone should boast

Now when will you repent of trusting in your self-righteousness & alleged good works?

When will you repent of making Christ a chance-giver and trust Him as Savior?

It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

Banned

Delivery

Guest

Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Hoffco

Guest

Banned

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member