Written fir our Admonition 1 Corinthians 10:11

[Dino246]

@Beckworth

In my earlier response, I forgot to specifically mention "gnat strainers." You know, those who will comb through your posts while seeking to find the smallest thing imaginable that they can argue against, and while simultaneously swallowing a camel by ignoring everything that you actually intended to say. Do yourself a favor, and just put them on ignore. It will help you to stay focused upon those who might actually consider anything that you have to say.

Anyone is free to use the Ignore function. I don't, for two reasons: firstly, I like to see what people write, even if they are criticizing my posts; and secondly, because I prefer to exercise my intrinsic capacity to ignore posts I find irrelevant, offensive, or just stupid. It's good practice for in-person interactions.

None of us has a corner on biblical truth. There is much unnecessary bickering here (which I prefer to avoid), but there is also the value of having other Bible students examine our ideas and challenge their weaknesses. The critical feedback provides us with the opportunity to refine our reasoning and to exercise our skills in defending the gospel.

Finally, this is a Discussion forum, not a "preaching" forum. People who expect to present their ideas here and not have them examined, questioned, or challenged are simply in the wrong place for the wrong reasons.

 

[Beckworth]

In theory, we fight against the lies being promoted by Satan, but, in practice, it inevitably leads to fighting with the people who believe and embrace such lies as well. In other words, whenever you encounter someone who has been inoculated with a false gospel message because someone injected them with something like "Just say this sinner's prayer, and you are once saved, always saved," thereby making them immune to much of God's word, they are never going to progress in their alleged Christian walk (more like a deep sleep from which they have no desire to wake), and they are going to fight against everything that you say that promotes any true growth in the Lord. That is just the way that it is. Rather than get sucked into such fights, just do what God has called Christians to do, and leave the rest up to him. In my way of thinking, and it is biblically-based, there are three "S's" which are in play here, and we, as Christians, only have control over two of them. The three "S's" would be as follows.

Sower
Seed
Soil

You, as the Sower of God's word, need to make sure that your own life is in order or in accordance to God's word. This "S" you can control.

When it comes to the Seed of God's word, you need to make sure what you are saying truly aligns with God's rightly divided word. This "S" you also can control.

When it comes to the Soil or to your audience, you have absolutely no control over their free will choices, and only God can give the increase.

Make sure that your own life is in order, and make sure that what you are telling others is indeed the truth, and then the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth, will strive with your hearers. Whether or not they listen to him is entirely on them, and not on you, so never try to force an increase. When you recognize that people are not going to hear by their own free will choices, then just move on to other people, and don't spin your wheels with those who are never going to listen. That is my advice, and it is biblically-based advice.

Oh, and don't forget how God has graciously provided us with the ignore option here. In other words, you are always going to encounter gate-keepers (those who set themselves to stop any actual biblical truth from being shared), trolls, bullies, etc. on forums, so just ignore them and try to reach others. I already have several people here on ignore myself.
I don't personally know of any such chat sites, but pretty much the whole world is lost, so perhaps chat sites aren't necessary. In other words, the whole world is pretty much a potential harvest field.

For me, I doubt that I will spin my own wheels here much longer. I have tried to reach out to newbies time and time again in my short stint here, and nobody has accepted my gracious offers to help them. I have also spent considerable time in the prayer requests section, and I have truly prayed for quite a number of people here. I believe that God hears my prayers, so hopefully something positive has come out of those efforts on my part. And then there is the Bible Discussion Forum a.k.a. the lesson in futility. In other words, in the few conversations I have been a part of, and in the many conversations that I have read without bothering to engage myself in any of them, nobody seems to ever change their beliefs even a smidgen, so what is all the effort ultimately worth? Nothing, seemingly. That said, even if my participation here wanes, and it already has, and I expect that it will continue to do so, then I still intend to keep my account here in the hope that I might be able to at least positively affect one person somewhere down the line. At the same time, I do fully plan to set the bulk of my attention on others outside of this forum...not that they are any easier to reach.

Thank you for this good advice. You are absolutely right about the three “S” ‘s. I do walk away from some posts after I feel I have done all I can do. And there is one or two here that I do ignore. If the scriptures I give and the arguments I present don’t help the person I am talking to, I still hope there might be others who read the exchange and can decide between truth and error. I try to remember that God said His word will not return to Him void. I try to put scripture out there and trust God to use it in whatever way He desires.

The exchanges I have had back and forth have helped me personally (even if no one else) because they have caused me to study more and harder. I have used and re-used some passages so much that now I have memorized where they are found in the Bible and can repeat some of them by heart! 🤪I guess that is something profitable from all this.

Sometimes I get burned out and have to stay away for awhile, but I would like to do a few more threads like this one, using an Old Testament story to illustrate a New Testament verse. I love the stories in the Old Testament. They tell the mighty, wonderful works of God. So I may stay a while longer.

Thank you so much for your help and encouragement. God help us both to see His “truth” and do His will.

 

[GWH]

No such thing as an atheist. To be an atheist, on must NOT believe in ANYTHING! Every person believes in some person/thing. Whoever that person is/whatever that thing is is their God. Even if it's themselves.

Yes, so a better name for atheism is I-dolatry.

 

[Beckworth]

Your earlier post implied that it is wrong for congregational leaders to invite an offering every time the church gathered, rather than just one day a week. The verse you posted is from 1 Corinthians 16, and its context clearly shows that offering was for the saints in Jerusalem, refuting your claim. So what exactly is your concern? There's no point in long threads restating matters on which we agree.

I’m afraid on this we do not agree. Peter said if we speak we must speak as the oracles of God. 1Peter 4:11 And again “whatever you do, in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord. That means by his authority. We have authority for taking up a collection on the first day of the week. If He didn’t care if we take one up every time we meet, then He would not have specified a certain day. To do it. He SPECIFIED a specific day and that eliminates every other day. He has told us what He wants. It is a test to see if we will honor Him and His word enough to do only what He tells us to do.

We have an example of this in Exodus. When God gave the children of Israel manna to eat, He gave specific instructions on when they were to gather it, how much to gather and on what days to gather it. He says He did it to TEST them, to see if they would keep His laws or not. Exodus 16:4. And again in Deuteronomy 8:2, God TESTED His people to know what was in their hearts; whether they would keep His commandments or not. What if I Cor.16:2 is a “test” to see if we will keep His commandment or not.

He tells us not to “ADD” to His word in Deut.4:6, Proverbs 30:6, Revelation 22:18-19. So, you see, we do not have “authority from God to take up a collection anytime and everytime we want to. 17 times in the first 20 chapters of Deuteronomy, God tells us to “Becareful” to obey His commandments. We cannot play “fast and loose” with God’s word.

That is my attitude toward God’s word. I believe it is a Biblical attitude and safe and sure. You must decide for yourself how you will treat what God says. We each are responsible to our own master.

 

[Dino246]

I’m afraid on this we do not agree. Peter said if we speak we must speak as the oracles of God. 1Peter 4:11 And again “whatever you do, in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord. That means by his authority. We have authority for taking up a collection on the first day of the week. If He didn’t care if we take one up every time we meet, then He would not have specified a certain day. To do it. He SPECIFIED a specific day and that eliminates every other day.

He specified the first day of the week for a specific offering for a non-local need. Because the context is clearly about an offering for a specific non-local need, the details of the instruction cannot be considered prescriptive for all offerings in all congregations at all times. The context is limited therefore the application is limited.

He has told us what He wants. It is a test to see if we will honor Him and His word enough to do only what He tells us to do.

Um, no. The only enduring application I see here is that offerings for non-local needs are legitimate. It's a general principle, not a test. You don't get to sound hermeneutical conclusions by ignoring context.

We have an example of this in Exodus. When God gave the children of Israel manna to eat, He gave specific instructions on when they were to gather it, how much to gather and on what days to gather it. He says He did it to TEST them, to see if they would keep His laws or not. Exodus 16:4. And again in Deuteronomy 8:2, God TESTED His people to know what was in their hearts; whether they would keep His commandments or not. What if I Cor.16:2 is a “test” to see if we will keep His commandment or not.

Exodus contains commands for a specific people at a specific time in history. The relevant part of 1 Corinthians contains instructions, not commands, though again for a specific people at a specific time in history. There is much Pharisaism in the Church because people treat narrative as directive and specific directions for historical persons as commands for individuals today.

He tells us not to “ADD” to His word in Deut.4:6, Proverbs 30:6, Revelation 22:18-19.

Exactly, so don't do it. If Paul had written, "When you take up an offering in the local congregation for any need, local or foreign, only collect it on the first day of the week" then you'd have a strong case. He didn't, and you don't, so stop adding to the Word by pretending Paul wrote words that just aren't there.

So, you see, we do not have “authority from God to take up a collection anytime and everytime we want to. 17 times in the first 20 chapters of Deuteronomy, God tells us to “Becareful” to obey His commandments. We cannot play “fast and loose” with God’s word.

Again, instructions to a specific congregation 2,000-odd years ago are not commands for us today. We aren't the Corinthian church of 50 AD, nor is there a specific need among the Christians of Jerusalem for which the apostle is collecting. We need to look for the general principles that do hold.

That is my attitude toward God’s word. I believe it is a Biblical attitude and safe and sure. You must decide for yourself how you will treat what God says. We each are responsible to our own master.

If we were to take your approach, then giving anything other than cash a single day of the week is wrong, disallowed by Scripture, and a demonstration that the perpetrators are failing God's test miserably. You're free to do as you see fit, but we remain in disagreement on this matter.

 

[Beckworth]

He specified the first day of the week for a specific offering for a non-local need. Because the context is clearly about an offering for a specific non-local need, the details of the instruction cannot be considered prescriptive for all offerings in all congregations at all times. The context is limited therefore the application is limited.


Um, no. The only enduring application I see here is that offerings for non-local needs are legitimate. It's a general principle, not a test. You don't get to sound hermeneutical conclusions by ignoring context.


Exodus contains commands for a specific people at a specific time in history. The relevant part of 1 Corinthians contains instructions, not commands, though again for a specific people at a specific time in history. There is much Pharisaism in the Church because people treat narrative as directive and specific directions for historical persons as commands for individuals today.


Exactly, so don't do it. If Paul had written, "When you take up an offering in the local congregation for any need, local or foreign, only collect it on the first day of the week" then you'd have a strong case. He didn't, and you don't, so stop adding to the Word by pretending Paul wrote words that just aren't there.


Again, instructions to a specific congregation 2,000-odd years ago are not commands for us today. We aren't the Corinthian church of 50 AD, nor is there a specific need among the Christians of Jerusalem for which the apostle is collecting. We need to look for the general principles that do hold.


If we were to take your approach, then giving anything other than cash a single day of the week is wrong, disallowed by Scripture, and a demonstration that the perpetrators are failing God's test miserably. You're free to do as you see fit, but we remain in disagreement on this matter.

The instruction Paul gives to the church at Corinth is

He specified the first day of the week for a specific offering for a non-local need. Because the context is clearly about an offering for a specific non-local need, the details of the instruction cannot be considered prescriptive for all offerings in all congregations at all times. The context is limited therefore the application is limited.


Um, no. The only enduring application I see here is that offerings for non-local needs are legitimate. It's a general principle, not a test. You don't get to sound hermeneutical conclusions by ignoring context.


Exodus contains commands for a specific people at a specific time in history. The relevant part of 1 Corinthians contains instructions, not commands, though again for a specific people at a specific time in history. There is much Pharisaism in the Church because people treat narrative as directive and specific directions for historical persons as commands for individuals today.


Exactly, so don't do it. If Paul had written, "When you take up an offering in the local congregation for any need, local or foreign, only collect it on the first day of the week" then you'd have a strong case. He didn't, and you don't, so stop adding to the Word by pretending Paul wrote words that just aren't there.


Again, instructions to a specific congregation 2,000-odd years ago are not commands for us today. We aren't the Corinthian church of 50 AD, nor is there a specific need among the Christians of Jerusalem for which the apostle is collecting. We need to look for the general principles that do hold.


If we were to take your approach, then giving anything other than cash a single day of the week is wrong, disallowed by Scripture, and a demonstration that the perpetrators are failing God's test miserably. You're free to do as you see fit, but we remain in disagreement on this matter.[/QUOT



Paul said the things he taught in this letter, he taught “EVERYWHERE IN EVERY CHURCH.”4:17. In 7:17 speaking of their “calling”, he said, so I ordain in every church. He wrote this letter to not only THE Christians in the church at Corinth, but to “ALL who in every place call on the name of the Lord.” THE instructions concerning church collections was a command for ALL Christian’s in every church, not just the church at Corinth. Paul says so himself and he makes sure that we all know that “the things I write to you are the commandments of the Lord.” 14:37.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Your response reminds me of “cafeteria style religion” where you pick what you like and refuse what you don’t like—“I’ll have this, but I don’t want that.” Every scripture I gave is God’s word. 1 Corinthians 16 was written to the church at Corinth, and specifically mentions the churches of Galatia as well. And to all “saints.” This is definitely instruction for Christians. It was not meant to instruct HOW the money was spent or to whom it was given—that is addressed in other scriptures. This passage is authority from God for Christians to take up a collection on the first day of the week, which was when they met together Acts 20:7, and which is called the Lord’s day, because that was the day He was resurrected. It was a general collection EVERY WEEK. It was addressed to “churches” and to “saints.” God does not have to say—“Now don’t take up collections every time you come together” nor does He need to say “only” on the first day of the week. Have you ever heard of the law of elimination? It’s not just for religion it is for anything. It’s a law of logic. If your wife says “ Go to the store and buy bread and milk.” She is not required to say,” don’t buy, meat, don’t buy vegetables, don’t buy cookies, don’t buy ice cream etc, etc, etc, until she names off everything else in the store that she does not want you to buy. That’s ridiculous and unnecessary! When God said to take up a collection on the first day of the week he is not required to say—now don’t take up a collection on Monday, don’t take up a collection on Tuesday, don’t take up a collection in Wednesday, etc, etc. He stated when the collection was to be taken—that eliminates every other day.

When God told the Jews to “Remember the 7th day and keep it Holy”, I don’t know of one Jew who ever asked God, or Moses, or a priest—WHICH SABBATH DAY???? It’s common knowledge that every week has a 7th day. And common sense should tell you that when a 7th day comes around, you are to keep it holy. That is the way the Jews understood what God said. No one ever quibbled, “ but God did not say EVERY 7th day!
Do you see the parallel? Common sense should tell you that when God says take up a collection on the first day of the week, He dies not need to say EVERY first day of the week. It’s common knowledge that every week has a first day—so, every time a first day comes around, the saints in the churches of Christ take up a collection. Just as He instructed in 1 Cor. 16:1-2.

Here’s another example: In Genesis when God told Noah to build the ark out of gopher wood, did God need to say, “ Now don’t use Pine, or cypress, or oak, or cedar, or poplar, etc, etc, until he had eliminated every kind of wood there is??? No. When God specified the kind of wood He wanted, that eliminated every other kind of wood. You may think that if Noah had ignored what God said and used a different kind of wood, it wouldn’t have mattered—the ark would have floated anyway; but I personally have my doubts.

Naaman in 2 Kings woujd not have been cured of his leprosy if he had not obeyed what God said to do and wash in the Jordan River. Would just ANY river work? I don’t think so.

Nadab and Abihu were killed in Leviticus 10 because they did not use the exact “fire” that God commanded.

Peter says “If anyone speaks, let him speak as the oracles of God.” ( 1 Peter 4:11)

Colossians 3:17 “And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord….” That means by His authority. When someone says “Stop, in the name of the law!” That means by thecAUTHORITY of the law. And Jesus says He has ALL AUTHORITY in heaven AND ON EARTH!! Matt. 28:18-19.

It’s all about respecting what God has said and doing it HIS WAY and not our way.
It’s all about trying to please God and not ourselves. I will address other issues in another post. Trying to keep this post from becoming too long.

Sister, lets break down these verses.

There is no scripture that says the Lords day is day one, so you speak of not adding to God’s Word, I suggest you don’t do so. God in His own Words, written by His own finger told us when “His” day is.

10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God.
Isa 58:13 “If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words,
Jesus didn’t change this Mat 2:28 28 Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.”
The Sabbath of the Lord and Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, the Sabbath is the seventh day, not a seventh day, so every seventh day is the Sabbath and God commanded man who was made in the image of God to keep the seventh day Holy thus saith the Lord Exo 20:8-11


Second lets look at these verses you are trying to make a command out of when there is none. Paul is not above God to countermand or edit His commandments that Jesus said could not be edited Mat 5:18 as if there is a greater Authority than God

Let’s look at little closer at the verse for the collection of the saints

"Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given orders to the churches of Galatia, so you must do also: On the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come. And when I come, whomever you approve by your letters I will send to bear your gift to Jerusalem."

There was no religious meeting held on the first day, no offering collection instead they were to gather a collection at their homes. It was a one time collection, Paul never said it changed the Sabbath commandment that he himself faithfully kept every Sabbath peaching to both Jews and Gentiles decades after the cross Acts 13:44 Acts 13:42 Acts 15:21 Acts 18:21

So no change of the commandment in 1 Cor 16, no indication of a change in the day of worship so best not to add what is not there.

Lets look at Acts 20:7 Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight.

First they broke bread everyday which means to have a meal, so that doesn’t make every day a new day of worship or a change in God’s commandment. Days in scripture start in the evening, so this was a late Saturday evening past sunset and they were already together because they were keeping every Sabbath Acts 18:4 Acts 15:21 and the reason they stayed later was because Paul was going on a mission trip in the morning and probably why he wanted to spend as much time with everyone before leaving.

No where in this verse says it’s a new day of worship or a new commandment. All authority is with Jesus Mat 28:18-20 Jesus already made His will known by keeping the commandments and telling us to as well John 15:10 if we abide in Him we will follow Jesus 1 John 2:6, Jesus kept the Sabbath Luke 4:16 and He is our example to follow. We are to abide in Jesus no one else John 15:4-5

 

[Dino246]

Paul said the things he taught in this letter, he taught “EVERYWHERE IN EVERY CHURCH.”4:17. In 7:17 speaking of their “calling”, he said, so I ordain in every church. He wrote this letter to not only THE Christians in the church at Corinth, but to “ALL who in every place call on the name of the Lord.” THE instructions concerning church collections was a command for ALL Christian’s in every church, not just the church at Corinth. Paul says so himself and he makes sure that we all know that “the things I write to you are the commandments of the Lord.” 14:37.

Like I said... you're free to do as you see fit.

 

[HeIsHere]

So you are finding fault with my post just because after I quoted what Jesus said exactly in John 12:47-48, I inserted a parentheses with the word “read” right beside the original word “ hears” to show that it would apply to people who either hear literally or read the words of Christ??? Is that all you’ve got? You are grasping at straws.

I thought it was good reminder that "read" is also valid withing the context of the larger point Jesus was making.

 

[HeIsHere]

@Beckworth

In my earlier response, I forgot to specifically mention "gnat strainers." You know, those who will comb through your posts while seeking to find the smallest thing imaginable that they can argue against, and while simultaneously swallowing a camel by ignoring everything that you actually intended to say. Do yourself a favor, and just put them on ignore. It will help you to stay focused upon those who might actually consider anything that you have to say.

Very insightful on something that has been baffling to me.

 

[keepingthingsreal]

Very insightful on something that has been baffling to me.

I believe that it shows the true motives of some people on this forum. In other words, they are always looking to tear others down, and often in a vindictive manner.

Thankfully, there are decent people on this forum as well.

 

[Beckworth]

I thought it was good reminder that "read" is also valid withing the context of the larger point Jesus was making.

Thank you.

 

[keepingthingsreal]

If the scriptures I give and the arguments I present don’t help the person I am talking to, I still hope there might be others who read the exchange and can decide between truth and error. I try to remember that God said His word will not return to Him void. I try to put scripture out there and trust God to use it in whatever way He desires.

It is possible that others might benefit from scriptures we present. Sticking with the three "S's", Solomon said:

Ecc 11:4
He that observeth the wind shall not sow; and he that regardeth the clouds shall not reap.
Ecc 11:5
As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all.
Ecc 11:6
In the morning sow thy seed, and in the evening withhold not thine hand: for thou knowest not whether shall prosper, either this or that, or whether they both shall be alike good.

When it comes to sowing the seed of God's word, we truly do not know whether it shall prosper, either this (sowing in the morning) or that (putting forth our hand in the evening), or whether they both shall alike be good. At the same time, however, when we encounter those who become hostile to our sharing of God's word, then it might be time to walk away from them.

Mat 7:6
Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

When people trample God's word under their feet, and when they come at us with the intent to rend us, then it is time to walk away from them. Even with such people, this does not mean that God's word has missed its mark. In other words, God's word is likened to a two-edged sword in scripture, and it is designed to prick or cut people in their hearts.

Heb 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Some will be pricked or cut unto repentance.

Act 2:37
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Act 2:40
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Act 2:41
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Act 2:42
And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

Others will be pricked or cut to the point where they want to kill us, and I believe that I have discerned this type of murderous spirit in many different people over the years, and those people include many who profess to know Christ.

Act 5:33
When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them.

Act 7:54
When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

Anyhow, all that I am trying to suggest to you is that we need to recognize the major differences between these two classifications of people. With the first group, it may be warranted for us to stay in order to help them to grow in the Lord. With the second group, it may be warranted for us to walk away lest they waste our time and keep us from potentially helping others. Ultimately, we will all need to give an account before the Lord in relation to our stewardship of that which he has entrusted to us. Jesus wants his initial investment back with usury or interest, and this is made clear in his parable of the talents. Reality, as harsh or as sad as it may be, dictates that some people are good investments, and others are bad investments. Know the difference, and act accordingly, is all that I am really suggesting, and it is something that I regularly suggest to myself as well.

I need to add that we need to consider the feedback of others as well. No matter how good our own intentions are, it may be that we need correction ourselves. Weigh what others say to you before the Lord, and let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged (Rom. 3:4). In other words, our goal needs to be to present that which is right for the potential benefit of all; including ourselves. If we are presenting something wrong, no matter how well-intentioned we might be, then we need to humbly repent and adjust our own theology accordingly.

 

[Beckworth]

It is possible that others might benefit from scriptures we present. Sticking with the three "S's", Solomon said:

Ecc 11:4
He that observeth the wind shall not sow; and he that regardeth the clouds shall not reap.
Ecc 11:5
As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all.
Ecc 11:6
In the morning sow thy seed, and in the evening withhold not thine hand: for thou knowest not whether shall prosper, either this or that, or whether they both shall be alike good.

When it comes to sowing the seed of God's word, we truly do not know whether it shall prosper, either this (sowing in the morning) or that (putting forth our hand in the evening), or whether they both shall alike be good. At the same time, however, when we encounter those who become hostile to our sharing of God's word, then it might be time to walk away from them.

Mat 7:6
Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

When people trample God's word under their feet, and when they come at us with the intent to rend us, then it is time to walk away from them. Even with such people, this does not mean that God's word has missed its mark. In other words, God's word is likened to a two-edged sword in scripture, and it is designed to prick or cut people in their hearts.

Heb 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Some will be pricked or cut unto repentance.

Act 2:37
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Act 2:40
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Act 2:41
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Act 2:42
And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

Others will be pricked or cut to the point where they want to kill us, and I believe that I have discerned this type of murderous spirit in many different people over the years, and those people include many who profess to know Christ.

Act 5:33
When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them.

Act 7:54
When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

Anyhow, all that I am trying to suggest to you is that we need to recognize the major differences between these two classifications of people. With the first group, it may be warranted for us to stay in order to help them to grow in the Lord. With the second group, it may be warranted for us to walk away lest they waste our time and keep us from potentially helping others. Ultimately, we will all need to give an account before the Lord in relation to our stewardship of that which he has entrusted to us. Jesus wants his initial investment back with usury or interest, and this is made clear in his parable of the talents. Reality, as harsh or as sad as it may be, dictates that some people are good investments, and others are bad investments. Know the difference, and act accordingly, is all that I am really suggesting, and it is something that I regularly suggest to myself as well.

I need to add that we need to consider the feedback of others as well. No matter how good our own intentions are, it may be that we need correction ourselves. Weigh what others say to you before the Lord, and let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged (Rom. 3:4). In other words, our goal needs to be to present that which is right for the potential benefit of all; including ourselves. If we are presenting something wrong, no matter how well-intentioned we might be, then we need to humbly repent and adjust our own theology accordingly.

Good thoughts, supported by scripture. I agree. Thank you.

 

[Beckworth]

Sister, lets break down these verses.

There is no scripture that says the Lords day is day one, so you speak of not adding to God’s Word, I suggest you don’t do so. God in His own Words, written by His own finger told us when “His” day is.

10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God.
Isa 58:13 “If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words,
Jesus didn’t change this Mat 2:28 28 Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.”
The Sabbath of the Lord and Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, the Sabbath is the seventh day, not a seventh day, so every seventh day is the Sabbath and God commanded man who was made in the image of God to keep the seventh day Holy thus saith the Lord Exo 20:8-11


Second lets look at these verses you are trying to make a command out of when there is none. Paul is not above God to countermand or edit His commandments that Jesus said could not be edited Mat 5:18 as if there is a greater Authority than God

Let’s look at little closer at the verse for the collection of the saints

"Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given orders to the churches of Galatia, so you must do also: On the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come. And when I come, whomever you approve by your letters I will send to bear your gift to Jerusalem."

There was no religious meeting held on the first day, no offering collection instead they were to gather a collection at their homes. It was a one time collection, Paul never said it changed the Sabbath commandment that he himself faithfully kept every Sabbath peaching to both Jews and Gentiles decades after the cross Acts 13:44 Acts 13:42 Acts 15:21 Acts 18:21

So no change of the commandment in 1 Cor 16, no indication of a change in the day of worship so best not to add what is not there.

Lets look at Acts 20:7 Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight.

First they broke bread everyday which means to have a meal, so that doesn’t make every day a new day of worship or a change in God’s commandment. Days in scripture start in the evening, so this was a late Saturday evening past sunset and they were already together because they were keeping every Sabbath Acts 18:4 Acts 15:21 and the reason they stayed later was because Paul was going on a mission trip in the morning and probably why he wanted to spend as much time with everyone before leaving.

No where in this verse says it’s a new day of worship or a new commandment. All authority is with Jesus Mat 28:18-20 Jesus already made His will known by keeping the commandments and telling us to as well John 15:10 if we abide in Him we will follow Jesus 1 John 2:6, Jesus kept the Sabbath Luke 4:16 and He is our example to follow. We are to abide in Jesus no one else John 15:4-5

Revelation 1:10- John said I was in the Spirit ON THE LORD’s DAY. What day do you think that was??? Acts 20:7 the earlycChristians met on the first day of the week to take the Lord’s supper and Paul oreached to them; 1 Cor. 16:2 the churches were commanded to take up a collection on the first day of the week. Be honest, what day would be called the Lord’s day other than the one on which He was resurrected from the dead. Isaiah says, “ Cone, let us REASON together.” God expects us to use “reason” on some things.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Revelation 1:10- John said I was in the Spirit ON THE LORD’s DAY. What day do you think that was???

Thats the issue, going by what one "thinks" instead of what the scriptures state. Where did God ever refer to the first day as "His" i.e. the Lords day? Not once, so adding what is not there, not a good idea Pro 30:5-6

The God of the Universe only claimed one day as His- it is His will- He wrote it, He spoke it sad so many do not believe Him at His Word. Its what faith is all about

These are all thus saith the Lords

Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God.
Isa 58:13 “If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words,
Jesus didn’t change this Mat 2:28 28 Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.” Who gives us the right to tear down something Jesus is Lord of. Are you lord of your home? Should we get rid of it too?

Acts 20:7 the earlycChristians met on the first day of the week to take the Lord’s supper and Paul oreached to them; 1 Cor. 16:2 the churches were commanded to take up a collection on the first day of the week. Be honest, what day would be called the Lord’s day other than the one on which He was resurrected from the dead. Isaiah says, “ Cone, let us REASON together.” God expects us to use “reason” on some things.

Where does this verse says its the Lords supper? Its best not to add to whats not there.

The broke bread daily Acts 2:46 does not mean a change in God's commandments. The collection offering was not for God, it was for people why it was not done at church but was a one time collection. What I would be more concerned about where did God abrogate His Sabbath commandment that He said to Remember? Not once. So if God didn't abrogate His Sabbath commandment who did, just as predicted in scripture Dan 7:25. Why we need to be careful who we are following and abiding in.

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

Are these different commandments than what Jesus kept? Of course not

1 John 2:6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

There is only one Door and that is Jesus, no other way

John 15: 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Revelation 1:10- John said I was in the Spirit ON THE LORD’s DAY. What day do you think that was??? Acts 20:7 the earlycChristians met on the first day of the week to take the Lord’s supper and Paul oreached to them; 1 Cor. 16:2 the churches were commanded to take up a collection on the first day of the week. Be honest, what day would be called the Lord’s day other than the one on which He was resurrected from the dead. Isaiah says, “ Cone, let us REASON together.” God expects us to use “reason” on some things.

He was most likely referring to the prophesied day of the lord, which is what Revelation is about. The Greek doesn't say "ON the lord's day", but "IN the day of the lord". So John was in spirit in the day of the lord. This phrase occurs 26 times in the bible, primarily in the prophets, which is mostly what the Revelation derives from

Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty. Isaiah 13:6​

​

Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. Isaiah 13:9​

 

[Beckworth]

[/QUOTE]

He was most likely referring to the prophesied day of the lord, which is what Revelation is about. The Greek doesn't say "ON the lord's day", but "IN the day of the lord". So John was in spirit in the day of the lord. This phrase occurs 26 times in the bible, primarily in the prophets, which is mostly what the Revelation derives from

Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty. Isaiah 13:6​

​

Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. Isaiah 13:9​

The day of the Lord in Isaiah 13, was a day of destruction! Verse 6 and and a cruel day of wrath and fierce anger from God in verse 9. This is surely NOT the day John is speaking of in Revelation 1. The Old Testament often uses “the day of the Lord” to represent JUDGEMENT, , punishment, and destruction from God. John is “in the Spirit”. On the Lord’s day and sees visions of heavenly things and beings. This is a wonderful thing—not cruel and fierce. The theme of Revelation is “victory” for the saints—not destruction.




Where does this verse says its the Lords supper? Its best not to add to whats not there.

The broke bread daily Acts 2:46 does not mean a change in God's commandments. The collection offering was not for God, it was for people why it was not done at church but was a one time collection.






Acts 20:7 the disciples ( of Jesus) CAME TOGETHER ( in one place) to break bread…”.
1 Corinthians 11 is discussing some problems concerning the Lord’s supper. (See verses 23-32). In verse 17, Paul says WHEN YOU COME TOGETHER AS A CHURCH…they were treating the Lord’s supper as a common meal. Again, in verse 20 he says when you COME TOGETHER IN ONE PLACE. They were abusing the Lord’s supper—each one takes his own supper ahead of others and one is hungry and another is drunk! (21) WHAT! HAVE YOU NOT HOUSES TO EAT AND DRINK IN? Verse 33- WHEN YOU COME TOGETHER TO EAT, wait for one another. BUT IF ANYONE IS HUNGRY, LET HIM EAT AT HOME!

This is how I know Acts 20:7 was the Lord’s supper. They were gathered together in one place and if it had been a common meal they would have eaten it at home—not as a church. Acts 2 that you referred to was just new Christian’s having fellowship with one another BREAKING BREAD FROM HOUSE TO HOUSE. In each others homes. There was and is a difference between the Lord’s supper which they ate when they were assembled together as a church and eating a common meal in their homes.

The collection taken in 1Cor. 16:1 was an order to the CHURCHES. He had already told the churches of Galatia to do this and now he is ordering the church at Corinth to do it—AND ALL SAINTS—everyone in every place that calls on the name of the Lord. That’s who he is writing this to. 1Cor. 1:2 It was a command for all churches everywhere—not just Corinth. If it was a one time collection, all going to the same place—Jerusalem—that must have been one wealthy church! They would have had more wealth than any other church at that time. That particular collection may have been going to Jerusalem but they were not the only ones receiving funds.

2Cor. 8 tells us that all the churches in Macedonia gave—even though they were in “deep poverty”—to the “ministering of the saints and he calls for the “brethren” at Corinth to supply their “lack” and in turn, the churches in Macedonia would send to the church at Corinth so that there would be “equality.”

Chapter 9:1 “Now concerning the MINISTERING TO THE SAINTS… this was an ongoing work of the church—not a one time event just for the church at Jerusalem. The collection on the first day of the week was how the churches gathered funds to help minister to the saints wherever they were —not just Jerusalem

Another work of the church was supporting the preachers who preached the gospel. . 2Cor. 11:8 Paul said he robbed other churches taking WAGES of them to do you service. Philippians 4:15-16 Paul says. “You Philippians know that in the beginning…no church shared with me concerning giving and receiving but you only. For even in Thessalonica you Sent aid once and again to my necessity.”

Here are two works of the church that they were commanded to do—ministering to the needy saints and supporting gospel preachers. How do you think the churches got the funds to do this? Paul gives them the order in 16:1-2. and tells us that he had already told the churches of Galatia to do the same thing.

You must put all of the New Testament together to get the complete picture.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

The day of the Lord in Isaiah 13, was a day of destruction! Verse 6 and and a cruel day of wrath and fierce anger from God in verse 9. This is surely NOT the day John is speaking of in Revelation 1. The Old Testament often uses “the day of the Lord” to represent JUDGEMENT, , punishment, and destruction from God. John is “in the Spirit”. On the Lord’s day and sees visions of heavenly things and beings. This is a wonderful thing—not cruel and fierce. The theme of Revelation is “victory” for the saints—not destruction.

Most of the Revelation is about the destruction of the wicked and the world, like bowls of wrath. The kingdom of God can;t come until the kingdoms of the world are utterly destroyed. That will be the day of the lord, or the lord's day, same thing

 

[Beckworth]

Most of the Revelation is about the destruction of the wicked and the world, like bowls of wrath. The kingdom of God can;t come until the kingdoms of the world are utterly destroyed. That will be the day of the lord, or the lord's day, same thing[/QUOTE


Those days in Revelation were in the FUTURE. Some would not happen until the end of the world. They were not happening yet. John says he was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day when he saw the visions of future events. Not the same time frame.

Jesus said the kingdom of God is at hand (Matt. 10 and John the Baptist preached it in Matt. 3. Then, after Jesus’s death on the cross,
Colossians 1:13 says we have been translated INTO THE KINGDOM of His dear Son. Christ established His kingdom while he was here on earth. The saved have Been translated into his kingdom.