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Let me answer this one for you. Satan had already fallen by the time of the Garden of Eden. In fact, he wasn't even called Satan (the adversary) until he fell.
Eze. 28:12-16 "Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire."
In fact, he was the head honcho and caused the earth to become dark and void through his mismanagement.
Eze. 28:12-16 "Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire."
In fact, he was the head honcho and caused the earth to become dark and void through his mismanagement.
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Actually, I did address your post.
Sabbatarians will often argue that the Sabbath did not begin at the Exodus but at creation, and, therefore, cannot be a shadow of Christ, since the Sabbath came before sin. However, in the second giving of the Ten Commandments, the reason for keeping the Sabbath was to "Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore, the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day." (Deuteronomy 5:15) Certainly God's deliverance of Israel from slavery foreshadows Christ's deliverance of believers from their slavery to sin.
Where did God command EVERYONE to keep the Sabbath on the seventh day? If every man from Adam to Moses kept the Sabbath, why is the Hebrew word for the weekly Sabbath found in the Ten Commandments, never found in the book of Genesis? Why is no one before Moses ever being told to keep the Sabbath? Why are there no examples of anyone keeping the Sabbath before Moses? Why were the Patriarchs never instructed about the Sabbath, but were instructed regarding: offerings: Genesis 4:3-4, Altars Genesis 8:20, Priests: Genesis 14:18, Tithes: Genesis 14:20, Circumcision: Genesis 17:10, Marriage: Genesis 2:24 and Genesis 34:9. Why would God leave out the Sabbath command in Genesis if it was for everyone to keep before Moses? You are ignoring the CONTEXT of Mark 2:27 and are misinterpreting the words of Jesus.
As I previously explained, Jesus said, "the Sabbath was made for man," not all mankind. *I see that you completely ignored (Exodus 31:16-17; Deuteronomy 5:12-15; Nehemiah 9:13).
Your arguments and writing style sound very familiar. Have you been here before under a different avatar name?
BTW the Church is NOT under the Old Covenant. Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel (Exodus 16:23, 29; 31:12-18; 35:1-3; Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3, 32; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13; Amos 8:5; Nehemiah 10:31) that is not binding on Christians under the New Covenant. (Colossians 2:16-17) The Bible nowhere describes The Church/Christians setting aside the Sabbath day as the day of worship. The only Scriptures that describe Christians meeting on the Sabbath are in fact pointing to evangelistic efforts at Jewish synagogues, which met on the Sabbath day.
Sabbatarians will often argue that the Sabbath did not begin at the Exodus but at creation, and, therefore, cannot be a shadow of Christ, since the Sabbath came before sin. However, in the second giving of the Ten Commandments, the reason for keeping the Sabbath was to "Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore, the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day." (Deuteronomy 5:15) Certainly God's deliverance of Israel from slavery foreshadows Christ's deliverance of believers from their slavery to sin.
Where did God command EVERYONE to keep the Sabbath on the seventh day? If every man from Adam to Moses kept the Sabbath, why is the Hebrew word for the weekly Sabbath found in the Ten Commandments, never found in the book of Genesis? Why is no one before Moses ever being told to keep the Sabbath? Why are there no examples of anyone keeping the Sabbath before Moses? Why were the Patriarchs never instructed about the Sabbath, but were instructed regarding: offerings: Genesis 4:3-4, Altars Genesis 8:20, Priests: Genesis 14:18, Tithes: Genesis 14:20, Circumcision: Genesis 17:10, Marriage: Genesis 2:24 and Genesis 34:9. Why would God leave out the Sabbath command in Genesis if it was for everyone to keep before Moses? You are ignoring the CONTEXT of Mark 2:27 and are misinterpreting the words of Jesus.
As I previously explained, Jesus said, "the Sabbath was made for man," not all mankind. *I see that you completely ignored (Exodus 31:16-17; Deuteronomy 5:12-15; Nehemiah 9:13).
Your arguments and writing style sound very familiar. Have you been here before under a different avatar name?
BTW the Church is NOT under the Old Covenant. Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel (Exodus 16:23, 29; 31:12-18; 35:1-3; Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3, 32; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13; Amos 8:5; Nehemiah 10:31) that is not binding on Christians under the New Covenant. (Colossians 2:16-17) The Bible nowhere describes The Church/Christians setting aside the Sabbath day as the day of worship. The only Scriptures that describe Christians meeting on the Sabbath are in fact pointing to evangelistic efforts at Jewish synagogues, which met on the Sabbath day.
The new covenant changed the way God speaks to us, it does not change God or His creation in any way. Before, those who belonged to Him marked that fact by cutting the foreskin, under the new covenant it is done with a vow and lifestyle. But there are physical acts still required that are for "all generations". As we are shown by the parable of the good Samaritan, the new covenant does not do away with all physical acts we are to have in praise and worship of the Lord.
Hebrews 4:9 - So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. The Greek word "sabbatismos" is used no where else in the Bible!
A4. SABBATISMOS (4520), a Sabbath-keeping, is used in Heb. 4:9, R.V., "a Sabbath rest," A.V. marg., "a keeping of a Sabbath" (akin to sabbatizoµ, to keep the Sabbath, used, e.g., in Ex. 16:30, not in the N.T.); here the Sabbath-keeping is the perpetual Sabbath rest to be enjoyed uninterruptedly by believers in their fellowship with the Father and the Son, in contrast to the weekly Sabbath under the Law.
A4. SABBATISMOS (4520), a Sabbath-keeping, is used in Heb. 4:9, R.V., "a Sabbath rest," A.V. marg., "a keeping of a Sabbath" (akin to sabbatizoµ, to keep the Sabbath, used, e.g., in Ex. 16:30, not in the N.T.); here the Sabbath-keeping is the perpetual Sabbath rest to be enjoyed uninterruptedly by believers in their fellowship with the Father and the Son, in contrast to the weekly Sabbath under the Law.
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If that’s the case, then feel free to answer my questions from post #39 along with these questions below as well:
Why is there no example of exclusively Christians coming together on the Sabbath day as a church or prayer meeting after the resurrection of Christ?
Why is there no command in the New Testament for Christians to keep the Sabbath holy?
If the Sabbath was for Gentiles and Adam, Noah and Abraham, then why is the Sabbath a sign to remind their exodus from Egypt? (Exodus 16:23,29; 31:13-18). Was Adam, Noah, Abraham, Gentiles or Seventh-day Adventists ever slaves in Egypt?
If the Sabbath law is still in force, then why do sabbatarians not stone their own members when they break the Sabbath as the law said? (Numbers 15:32-36)
Why is there no example of exclusively Christians coming together on the Sabbath day as a church or prayer meeting after the resurrection of Christ?
Why is there no command in the New Testament for Christians to keep the Sabbath holy?
If the Sabbath was for Gentiles and Adam, Noah and Abraham, then why is the Sabbath a sign to remind their exodus from Egypt? (Exodus 16:23,29; 31:13-18). Was Adam, Noah, Abraham, Gentiles or Seventh-day Adventists ever slaves in Egypt?
If the Sabbath law is still in force, then why do sabbatarians not stone their own members when they break the Sabbath as the law said? (Numbers 15:32-36)
I did post #70 incorrectly, here is a better answer to Mailmandan:
mailmandan said:
If that’s the case, then feel free to answer my questions from post #39 along with these questions below as well:
1. Why is there no example of exclusively Christians coming together on the Sabbath day as a church or prayer meeting after the resurrection of Christ?
Answer: Many many times Christians have met together on the Sabbath in the NT.
2/ Why is there no command in the New Testament for Christians to keep the Sabbath holy?
Answer: The first 5 books of OT was given to us so we could know the Lord and His ways, the NT is not given to us as a complete story of our God. It is a completion of the OT. We are not to look to the NT to completely understand God, but to learn what the NT tells us.
2. If the Sabbath was for Gentiles and Adam, Noah and Abraham, then why is the Sabbath a sign to remind their exodus from Egypt? (Exodus 16:23,29; 31:13-18). Was Adam, Noah, Abraham, Gentiles or Seventh-day Adventists ever slaves in Egypt?
Answer: The Sabbath is one subject, one piece of the Lord's plan for us. All that happened in the exodus from Egypt and especially the way the posting of the blood of the lamb exempted them from death is an acting out of Christ for us. We are freed from the bondage of sin by the shedding of the blood of the lamb as they were freed from the bondage of slavery by the Lord, and the blood of the lamb protected them
2. If the Sabbath law is still in force, then why do sabbatarians not stone their own members when they break the Sabbath as the law said? (Numbers 15:32-36)
Answer: You haven't studied the rules very well regarding stoning. It was only done in very serious cases. We are to read about it in order to understand how seriously the Lord takes certain acts. You say you believe in the new covenant, and under the new covenant stoning is not a way of punishment. We now have jails and prisons. Our government for thousands of years has been secular not a theocracy.
mailmandan said:
If that’s the case, then feel free to answer my questions from post #39 along with these questions below as well:
1. Why is there no example of exclusively Christians coming together on the Sabbath day as a church or prayer meeting after the resurrection of Christ?
Answer: Many many times Christians have met together on the Sabbath in the NT.
2/ Why is there no command in the New Testament for Christians to keep the Sabbath holy?
Answer: The first 5 books of OT was given to us so we could know the Lord and His ways, the NT is not given to us as a complete story of our God. It is a completion of the OT. We are not to look to the NT to completely understand God, but to learn what the NT tells us.
2. If the Sabbath was for Gentiles and Adam, Noah and Abraham, then why is the Sabbath a sign to remind their exodus from Egypt? (Exodus 16:23,29; 31:13-18). Was Adam, Noah, Abraham, Gentiles or Seventh-day Adventists ever slaves in Egypt?
Answer: The Sabbath is one subject, one piece of the Lord's plan for us. All that happened in the exodus from Egypt and especially the way the posting of the blood of the lamb exempted them from death is an acting out of Christ for us. We are freed from the bondage of sin by the shedding of the blood of the lamb as they were freed from the bondage of slavery by the Lord, and the blood of the lamb protected them
2. If the Sabbath law is still in force, then why do sabbatarians not stone their own members when they break the Sabbath as the law said? (Numbers 15:32-36)
Answer: You haven't studied the rules very well regarding stoning. It was only done in very serious cases. We are to read about it in order to understand how seriously the Lord takes certain acts. You say you believe in the new covenant, and under the new covenant stoning is not a way of punishment. We now have jails and prisons. Our government for thousands of years has been secular not a theocracy.
These are insufficient answers to my questions, but thanks for the effort. You need to learn how to rightly divide the word of truth.
Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel (Exodus 16:23, 29; 31:12-18; 35:1-3; Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3, 32; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13; Amos 8:5; Nehemiah 10:31) that is not binding on Christians under the New Covenant. (Colossians 2:16-17)
The Bible nowhere in the NT describes the Church/the body of Christ setting aside the Sabbath day as the day of worship. The Scriptures that describe Christians meeting on the Sabbath are in fact pointing to evangelistic efforts at Jewish synagogues, which met on the Sabbath day.
Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel (Exodus 16:23, 29; 31:12-18; 35:1-3; Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3, 32; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13; Amos 8:5; Nehemiah 10:31) that is not binding on Christians under the New Covenant. (Colossians 2:16-17)
The Bible nowhere in the NT describes the Church/the body of Christ setting aside the Sabbath day as the day of worship. The Scriptures that describe Christians meeting on the Sabbath are in fact pointing to evangelistic efforts at Jewish synagogues, which met on the Sabbath day.
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"Although God's rest on the seventh day (Genesis 2:3) did foreshadow a future Sabbath law, there is no Biblical record of the Sabbath before the children of Israel left the land of Egypt. Nowhere in Scripture is there any hint that Sabbath keeping was practiced from Adam to Moses."
Absolutely correct IMO.
Absolutely correct IMO.
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I would like to hear what you think of the Hebrew race. Why did the Lord create it? What relationship do they have to the gentiles? Do you think the OT is scripture and tells us anything of our God, or only tells of of a God to a few people who descend from Abraham? Do you think the covenants of the Lord has anything to do with gentiles?
In reply I can say with the utmost confidence that at this juncture in redemptive history, the entire WORLD without exception is COMMANDED to repent, receive Jesus for the forgiveness of sins, and preach the Gospel.
Intriguingly, all (except the doomed Canaanites et al) could have become converts to the God of Israel back in those days as well.
But tragically only a little flock remained faithful in both cases.
And in both cases God (or Jesus) is the Husband and the worshippers the bride.
Intriguingly, all (except the doomed Canaanites et al) could have become converts to the God of Israel back in those days as well.
But tragically only a little flock remained faithful in both cases.
And in both cases God (or Jesus) is the Husband and the worshippers the bride.
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That doesn't answer my questions at all. Ever since Adam "ate the apple" the entire world has been subject to the salvation offered to us through Christ. Do you think, perhaps, that what Christ did for us had no effect for 4,000 years, before Christ lived on earth with us? There was no salvation without blood, the blood of Christ. Grace and God go hand in hand.
Perhaps you are trying to read the OT without learning anything about the people God's ways are explained to us through. The dead sea scrolls has opened up understanding of those people who lived in a different time, God opened up a way for us to understand. There really is no excuse for not understanding the OT.
Perhaps you are trying to read the OT without learning anything about the people God's ways are explained to us through. The dead sea scrolls has opened up understanding of those people who lived in a different time, God opened up a way for us to understand. There really is no excuse for not understanding the OT.
It must be related to the fast (gospel). It would seem the man that gathered firewood did not follow the law to cook the manna, the gospel food the day before the sabbath so that they could use it to share a meal and preach the gospel good news as the true fast. (Isaiah 58)
Twice as much gospel food was gathered the day before. No law against keeping one self warm, throwing another log on the fire.. it can go with a good gospel meal. The incident must be connected to the fast. ..Men as it seems turned it into Kosher laws of the fathers as oral traditions of men. Its not a day to not work by not moving a muscle and watch the Green Bay Packers (#1) But a day set aside to work getting the gospel out (Isaiah 58) as being heard on high..
Twice as much gospel food was gathered the day before. No law against keeping one self warm, throwing another log on the fire.. it can go with a good gospel meal. The incident must be connected to the fast. ..Men as it seems turned it into Kosher laws of the fathers as oral traditions of men. Its not a day to not work by not moving a muscle and watch the Green Bay Packers (#1) But a day set aside to work getting the gospel out (Isaiah 58) as being heard on high..