Why have the Sign Gifts Ended

[notuptome]

My scriptures trumped your premise. Concede already.

Scripture never trumps scripture. More dumb stuff from the miracle seekers.

1 Cor 13:8 ends tongues, prophecies and knowledge. You must now attain knowledge by study of the scriptures. You must now read the prophecy from the scriptures. You must now cease from tongues.

Trust the word of God. Tongues which are claimed today are not biblical.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Dino246]

Scripture never trumps scripture. More dumb stuff from the miracle seekers.

Scribe didn't claim that Scripture trumps Scripture. You should read more carefully.

Those who believe that God still works miracles are not, as you assert, "miracle seekers". Your slander only reveals your heart and says nothing about anyone else.

 

[Dino246]

I quoted Acts 3:26 already. What does it literally says to you?

Do you also recall the last question they asked Jesus before he ascended in Acts 1:6? Your understanding of "all nations" is not the same as how the 11 understood it.

Acts 3:26 says nothing whatsoever about a one-year extension. Perhaps you cited the wrong verse?

(NASB) "For you first, God raised up His Servant and sent Him to bless you by turning every one of you from your wicked ways."

 

[SoulWeaver]

It is agreed that the Thessalonians letters were among the 1st letters written by Paul.

Ephesians, Philippians and Colossians are known as the prison epistles, written when Paul was in prison in Rome, which occurs in Acts 28.

1, 2 Corinthians and Romans were written before Paul's visit to Jerusalem in Acts 21. We know that because he talked about the fund raising in those books.

I am currently reading about the timetable on the epistles, and what hit me is, that I forgot about the book of Revelation. Have you considered the book of Revelation? It is considered one of the last books written even at its earliest estimates, if not the very last. The whole book demonstrates operating in the gift of prophecy...

 

[John146]

Praise the Lord for the remission you have received.

If you're looking for people who can heal others at will, I doubt you will find any such person. If you're looking for people who have been used by God to bring healing to others, you will find many. I think your focus is too narrow.

Just trying to be biblical in my views. No one today has the gifts as the Apostles had.

 

[Dino246]

Just trying to be biblical in my views. No one today has the gifts as the Apostles had.

You might want to consider those two statements; the latter does not follow from the former.

Otherwise, I can respect your view even though I don't necessarily agree.

 

[Guojing]

Acts 3:26 says nothing whatsoever about a one-year extension. Perhaps you cited the wrong verse?

(NASB) "For you first, God raised up His Servant and sent Him to bless you by turning every one of you from your wicked ways."

The point of that verse is to tell you that, even after Jesus was resurrected, God still send him first to Israel.

The parable of the barren fig tree, that I cited in Luke 13:6-9, in my point 5, is the one that mentioned that one year extension.

 

[Guojing]

I am currently reading about the timetable on the epistles, and what hit me is, that I forgot about the book of Revelation. Have you considered the book of Revelation? It is considered one of the last books written even at its earliest estimates, if not the very last. The whole book demonstrates operating in the gift of prophecy...

It might be prophecy yes.

Its just like now, when God still does miraculous healings in the Body of Christ, but they are no longer a sign for anything.

 

[Dino246]

The point of that verse is to tell you that, even after Jesus was resurrected, God still send him first to Israel.

The parable of the barren fig tree, that I cited in Luke 13:6-9, in my point 5, is the one that mentioned that one year extension.

Acts 3:26 still says nothing about a one-year extension, and Jesus wasn't around for a year before His ascension. Now find Scripture that ties that parable to a real-life one-year extension.

 

[Guojing]

Acts 3:26 still says nothing about a one-year extension, and Jesus wasn't around for a year before His ascension. Now find Scripture that ties that parable to a real-life one-year extension.

I already gave you Luke 13:6-9, 3 years of Jesus ministry to Israel until the cross, followed by one year of Holy Spirit ministry to Israel after that.

If you have a different interpretation of that parable, feel free to explain.

 

[Ruby123]

People water down or change the Word because of their experiences. It goes from "lay hands on the sick and they will recover" to "Oh only if it's God"s will" because we don"t see it happening much around us to "the gifts have ceased to exist"because it doesn"t happen alot. We change the word to suit our experiences, theories, commentaries and studies we have done. Best thing to do it throw all that in the bin and ask the Holy Spirit "what does this mean" I mean isn't that how it was in the beginning when God walked and talked with Adam.

 

[Guojing]

People water down or change the Word because of their experiences. It goes from "lay hands on the sick and they will recover" to "Oh only if it's God"s will" because we don"t see it happening much around us to "the gifts have ceased to exist"because it doesn"t happen alot. We change the word to suit our experiences, theories, commentaries and studies we have done. Best thing to do it throw all that in the bin and ask the Holy Spirit "what does this mean" I mean isn't that how it was in the beginning when God walked and talked with Adam.

God still heals today, of course, no one is denying that.

Signs are different, signs are meant to testify towards something, and thus, its guaranteed to happen, level of faith is not a criteria. For example, Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead, Jesus fed the 5000 when no one was expecting him to.

One common misunderstanding was that Mark 16:17-18 is directed to the Body of Christ.

Once you understand that Israel had a one year extension after the cross, my point 5, and that we gentiles only came in to the picture after that one year, everything would fall into place.

The Holy Spirit will tell you that signs are for Israel, and that the Body of Christ is to walk by faith, and not by sight
2 Corinthians 5:7

 

[Guojing]

People water down or change the Word because of their experiences. It goes from "lay hands on the sick and they will recover" to "Oh only if it's God"s will" because we don"t see it happening much around us to "the gifts have ceased to exist"because it doesn"t happen alot. We change the word to suit our experiences, theories, commentaries and studies we have done. Best thing to do it throw all that in the bin and ask the Holy Spirit "what does this mean" I mean isn't that how it was in the beginning when God walked and talked with Adam.

On the other hand, Bethel was praying really hard last year, and using the same story in John 11 to raise a kid Olive from the dead. No one would deny their level of faith, and yet it did not happen.

Simple reason, its not their lack of faith, but rather signs have passed

 

[wattie]

To claim cessation as "straightforward" you would have to explain the leap that is supposed to happen for the gifts to cease. The Scripture states very precisely the moment when the gifts would cease,

1 Cor 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, THEN that which is in part [from context, spiritual gifts] shall be done away.
1 Cor 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but THEN face to face: now I know in part; but THEN shall I know even as also I am known.

Compared to apostle Paul, do you know God as you are known, and also claim that Paul did NOT know Him in that way?
Compared to apostle Paul, do you see Christ face to face, and claim apostle Paul did NOT, and only saw Him through a glass darkly compared to you?
Compared to the times of apostle Paul, what perfect thing did come since, which was NOT there yet in his times?
You would have to fit all three.
In addition.
Or are you claiming that the apostles and the first believers were like cymbals so they had gifts, while nowadays quality of believers changed dramatically and they are not like cymbals, so they don't have gifts?

The glass is a mirror. The bible is like a mirror to ourselves and allows us to fully know God and ourselves. Hence 'face to face'

In part.. progressing revelation of God's word at the time.. thru gifts of tongues,prophecy and knowledge..

The Word completed ..the tools were put away to reveal it. This completion is the perfect thing, or that which is perfect.

Perfect meaning 'lacking nothing'
'Complete' 'mature'

The clanging symbols in Corinthians were about the Corinthian church. They were exercising the gifts wrongly.. disordered. The disciples weren't in the same boat. Not a fair comparison

 

[Guojing]

The glass is a mirror. The bible is like a mirror to ourselves and allows us to fully know God and ourselves. Hence 'face to face'

In part.. progressing revelation of God's word at the time.. thru gifts of tongues,prophecy and knowledge..

The Word completed ..the tools were put away to reveal it. This completion is the perfect thing, or that which is perfect.

Perfect meaning 'lacking nothing'
'Complete' 'mature'

The clanging symbols in Corinthians were about the Corinthian church. They were exercising the gifts wrongly.. disordered. The disciples weren't in the same boat. Not a fair comparison

Yes, this analogy of the Word of God to a mirror is seen in James 1:23

For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror;

 

[Benadam]

Please send those with the gift of healing to the cancer hospitals. Thanks.

God intends for His signs to produce faith. The over-riding of physical law is secondary.

 

[Guojing]

God intends for His signs to produce faith. The over-riding of physical law is secondary.

You better double check on that claim.

2 Corinthians 5:7 For we walk by faith, not by sight.

Romans 10:17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

 

[John146]

You might want to consider those two statements; the latter does not follow from the former.

Otherwise, I can respect your view even though I don't necessarily agree.

The gifts of the Apostles didn’t come and go. If an Apostle was alive today, they would certainly be healing everywhere proving to the Jew that Jesus is their promised messiah.

 

[John146]

God intends for His signs to produce faith. The over-riding of physical law is secondary.

Actually, faith is strengthened with the absence of signs. Gentiles are called to walk by faith not by sight. Faith comes from hearing the word of God.

 

[shittim]

People water down or change the Word because of their experiences. It goes from "lay hands on the sick and they will recover" to "Oh only if it's God"s will" because we don"t see it happening much around us to "the gifts have ceased to exist"because it doesn"t happen alot. We change the word to suit our experiences, theories, commentaries and studies we have done. Best thing to do it throw all that in the bin and ask the Holy Spirit "what does this mean" I mean isn't that how it was in the beginning when God walked and talked with Adam.

And once more in Revelation 22 when His work of restoring mankind is complete, and we are so very close we must give first place to him as you have shared.