Why do so many people think Paul was a false apostle?

Marcelo · Dec 30, 2017

The best and only option is to read Paul's letters and believe that Jesus used him to preach salvation by grace -- not by keeping the Law. Grace doesn't mean lawlessness because a person who commits adultery, steals, lies, etc, does not even know what grace means.

Free from the Law means we don't have to follow a 613-item list of dos and don'ts, but of course salvation by grace involves a lot of obedience and above all it involves holiness!

Salvation by grace is unmerited, but is precious -- the Lord Jesus suffered indescribable pain to establish this new covenant between God and His people.

jaybird88 · Dec 30, 2017

Marcelo said:

but the "some guy" claims to have the same authority, how you going to know if he is true or false?

Studyman · Dec 30, 2017

Marcelo said:

What about people who kill? they wouldn't know what Grace is either, yes? What about creating images of God in the likeness of man. Is this sin acceptable in your eyes? The same God forbad both things. How can you judge one acceptable and the other not acceptable.

How can we be a judge of God's Word?

There is not now nor has there ever been 613 laws for God's People to walk in. This is a deception used by the Serpent to trick people into believe a lie as it did to Eve.

Do you have any scriptural evidence to back this claim up?

jaybird88 · Dec 30, 2017

Zmouth said:

How do you know that what someone is saying is different that what Jesus taught? From the scriptures?

In John 8:12 it is written that Jesus said "I am the light of the world, he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness but shall have the light of life." Yet do you think that those who are taught by Jesus could stumble considering what is written in John 11:9 "If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world." That is why they would ignore what anyone walking in the night would say since they are walking by faith and faith comes by hearing. The difference is found in Matthew 10:27.

If we say that we have fellowship with him,
and walk in darkness,
we lie, and do not the truth:
1 John 1:6.

if it contradicts Jesus, i would say its different.

BillG · Dec 30, 2017

Did not Jesus preach salvation by faith to Israel?

John 6:28-29
28 They replied, “We want to perform God’s works, too. What should we do?”
29 Jesus told them, “This is the only work God wants from you: Believe in the one he has sent.”

John 6:47
47 “I tell you the truth, anyone who believes has eternal life.

Paul took the same message to the gentiles.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. 9 Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it.

Or have I got it wrong?

Studyman · Dec 30, 2017

BillG said:

I'm not saying anything, I'm showing you what the God you claim to serve said about the subject. If you don't believe these Words, then you can take it up with the Author of them.

I answered your question, not I, but Christ in me.

Studyman · Dec 30, 2017

BillG said:

Jesus created His Path we are to walk in. He walked the same Path and we were told to "walk even as He Walked".

13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

If you reject all the Word's of the God that shed light on your works, then how can you know if you are in Christ or not?

Acts 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

So Paul said a lot of things. Shouldn't you consider all his teaching and not just the words that can be used to promote your religious traditions?

What works would be worthy of repentance? Works created by Jesus before He became a man for us to walk in? Or is Paul speaking about our works, our images of God created in the likeness of some long haired man, our version of His Sabbaths, our "Feasts unto the Lord"?

Eph. 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

We all have works Billy, the question is, are they wrought of God or man.

John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21
But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

2 Cor. 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Malachi 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

BillG · Dec 30, 2017

Studyman said:

Studyman,

I take that as a no then.
You quote mostly the same stuff.
Make quotes.

You say above "The God you claim to serve"
Obviously we serve different Gods, if that's not what you are saying if comes across as they because of the words "you claim to serve"

But when anyone asks you a question you quote the same quotes, post the same verses.
Yet you have no desire to help anyone understand what you actually mean.

You posted " we need look no further for our understanding in righteousness, Jesus walked the perfect walk and we are told they if we call him Lord, then we should walk as he walked"

So I asked does this mean "Sinless?

I never said you said it. I asked "Is this what you are saying?

You have shown me nothing, and have answered with nothing.

In post 231 you say to me "My focus on this forum is to reflect what the Bible teaches, not religious traditions we are warned of over and over again to "Take heed of"

Then you just post a load of Bible verses

Yet you do not reflect your thoughts to us.

How can we understand what your saying if you do not explain your reasoning.

What does you mean "did he created images of God after the likeness of man? Your quote
What do you mean "Did he create his own high days and reject Gods? Your quote
What do you mean " We don't need to create our own salvation, Jesus created it for us"
What do you mean "We do not need to add or take away from Gods plan"

Explaining what you are trying to convey would really help

BillG · Dec 30, 2017

Promote my religious traditions?
Please expand. What are my religious traditions. Give examples.

FYI, I have posted many times Eph

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. 9 Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it. 10 For we are God’s masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago.

You missed out v8. Was that on purpose or a mistake?

So you often quote works that are not in keeping with repentance, like depart from me you workers of iniquity.

What to you are works worthy of repentance.

You are correct we all have works,

Ephesians 2:10
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

What are these good works?

Matthew 25:34-40
34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

If we do those then surely we fulfill

Matthew 22:37-40

37 Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Marcelo · Dec 30, 2017

jaybird88 said:

Modesty aside, I'm an old hand at dealing with such people. A few decades ago a sister came to visit us and during the prayer she tried to drive out a demon that, according to a revelation she had received, was in me. Later I learned that she was the kind of sister who looks under the bed for demons before going to sleep.

Throughout my Christian life I've seen many would-be prophets and just a few true prophets. But the true ones will never say anything that contradicts Scriptures.

BillG · Dec 30, 2017

So where did the 613 come from? Who gave it?
Was the sacrificial system post of the 613. The sacrificial system that you have said had been away with as a result of the death of Jesus.

Does the 613 give an outline of how the 4th commandment was meant to be kept and the consequences of not doing so, which was death.

Were these not given to Gods chosen people?

Marcelo · Dec 30, 2017

No, no killing, no creating images. Neither is acceptable.

I'm not a judge.

I don't need to know how many laws there are, but you as a law keeper should have a printed list of all mitzvot. But make sure you don't fail to observe any single mitzvah, otherwise you'll be guilty of disregarding the whole Law.

What claim?

hardsell · Dec 30, 2017

shrume said:

Look to Adam and eve before the fall. Eve did not have children before the fall[although that opinion is out there]
God told Eve in pain and hardship she would have children, that might mean that the opposite of pain and hardship during child bearing was true before the fall. Which also means sex would have been around before the fall.

hardsell · Dec 30, 2017

shrume said:

It is obvious that Maxwell is an alien, he only has 1 eye.

lightbearer · Dec 30, 2017

Studyman said:

Difficult topic for most. Amen! Praise GOD! Keep up the good work.

lightbearer · Dec 30, 2017

BillG said:

GOD; they can be found in the Bible.
The Law: All 613 Commandments!

(248 Positive Commandments and 365 Negative Commandments)

248 Positive Commandments
1. Believe in Yahweh as the Only Source of Power in the Universe. (Exo_20:2)
2. Submit to Yahweh as the Supreme Head, to be in unity with Yahweh. (Deu_6:4)
3. Love Yahweh with all your heart, soul, and might. (Deu_6:5)
4. Reverence Yahweh by Keeping His Laws. (Deu_6:12-13; Deu_6:25)
5. Serve Yahweh. (Exo_23:25)
6. Hold fast to Yahweh. (Deu_10:20)
7. Taking an oath by Yahweh's Name. (Deu_6:13)
8. Walk in Yahweh's ways. (Deu_28:9)
9. Sanctify Yahweh's Name. (Lev_22:32)
10. Read (study and meditate on) the Book of the Law. (Deu_6:7)
11. Teach the Book of the Law to our children. (Deu_6:7)
12. Bind the Law upon our hands. (Deu_6:8)
13. Bind (write) the Law upon our minds. (Deu_6:8)
14. Make tzitzit on the corners of the tallits. (Num_15:38-40)
15. Preach and publish Yahweh's Law. (Deu_6:9)
16. Gather for the reading of the Law every seventh year. (Deu_31:10-13)
17. A king must acquire and apply the Book of the Law. (Deu_17:18-20)
18. Acquire the Book of the Law. (Deu_31:19)
19. Be thankful to Yahweh in prayer, praise, and deed. (Deu_8:10)
The Temple and the Priests
20. Build the Holy sanctuary of Yahweh. (Exo_25:8-9)
21. We must reverence Yahweh in the sanctuary of Yahweh. (Lev_19:30)
22. Guard the sanctuary of Yahweh at all times. (Num_18:2; Num_18:4)
23. The priests and Levites shall do their appointed work in the sanctuary of Yahweh. (Num_18:23; Num_18:6-7)
24. The priests must wash their hands and feet. (Exo_30:17-21)
25. The priests must light the seven lamp lampstand. (Exo_27:20-21)
26. The priests must bless the people with the Name of Yahweh. (Num_6:23-27)
27. The priests must set the showbread and frankincense before the ark. (Exo_25:30)
28. The priests must burn the incense on the golden altar in the morning and between the evenings. (Exo_30:7-8)
29. The priests must keep the fire burning on the altar continuously. (Lev_6:12-13)
30. The priests must remove the ashes from the altar daily. (Lev_6:10-11)
31. The priests must keep the ritually unclean out of the inner court of the sanctuary of Yahweh. (Num_5:2-3)
32. The priests must be regarded as holy. (Lev_21:8)
33. The priests must dress in special priestly garments. (Exo_28:2-43)
34. The priests must bear the responsibility for the sanctuary of Yahweh. (Num_18:1; Num_18:5)
35. The priests must prepare the holy anointing oil according to its formula. (Exo_30:23-33)
36. The priests must perform their services at the sanctuary of Yahweh at the appointed time. (Deu_18:6-8)
37. The priests may become ritually unclean due to certain close relatives. (Lev_21:1-4)
38. The High Priest may marry only a virgin. (Lev_21:13-14)
Sacrifices
39. The continual burnt offering (Tamid sacrifice) must be offered twice daily. (Num_28:2-6)
40. The grain and drink offering must be offered twice daily. (Num_28:2-8)
41. An additional sacrifice must be offered every Sabbath. (Num_28:9-10)
42. An additional sacrifice must be offered on The New Moon. (Num_28:11-15)
43. An additional sacrifice must be offered every day of The Feast of Unleavened Bread (Passover). (Num_28:18-24)
44. The Omer offering of the first barley must also be brought on the first day of The Feast of Unleavened Bread (Passover) and must be waved by the priests on the second day of the Feast. (Lev_23:10-14)
45. An additional offering must be offered at The Feast of Weeks (Pentecost). (Num_28:26-30)
46. Two wave loaves of bread baked with salt must be offered on The Feast of Weeks (Pentecost). (Lev_23:17)
47. An additional sacrifice must be offered on The Feast of Trumpets. (Num_29:1-6)
48. An additional sacrifice must be offered on the Day of Atonement. (Num_29:7-8)
49. The Atonement Service must be performed on the Day of Atonement. (Lev_16:2-34)
50. An additional sacrifice must be offered every day of The Feast of Tabernacles. (Num_29:12-34)
51. An additional sacrifice must be offered on The Last Great Day. (Num_29:35-40)
52. Three times a year keep a Feast to Yahweh: at The Feast of Unleavened Bread, at The Feast of Weeks (Pentecost), and at The Feast of Tabernacles. (Exo_23:14-17)
53. The Feasts of Yahweh must be kept only at the Place Yahweh chooses, at the sanctuary of Yahweh. (Deu_12:5-7; Deu_12:14)
54. Every household must appear before Yahweh and rejoice at the Feasts. (Deu_16:14)
55. The Passover Lamb must be killed on the fourteenth day of Abib between the two evenings. (Num_28:16)
56. The Passover Lamb must be eaten on the night of the fifteenth of Abib.(Exo_12:8-11)
57. Those who are unclean from a dead body or away on a journey (stranded, detained, or imprisoned) must kill the Passover Lamb in the Second Moon. (Num_9:10-11)
58. The Passover in the Second Moon must be held according to all its ordinances. (Num_9:11-12)
59. The silver trumpets must be sounded at Feast times, New Moons, and also in times of tribulation, to call the congregation together. (Num_10:2; Num_10:9-10)
60. All animals to be sacrificed must be at least eight days old. (Lev_22:27)
61. All animals to be sacrificed must be without blemish. (Lev_22:21)
62. All offerings must be salted. (Lev_2:13)
63. The Law of the burnt offering. (Lev_1:2-17)
64. The Law of the sin offering. (Lev_6:25-30)
65. The Law of the trespass offering. (Lev_7:1-2; Lev_7:7)
66. The Law of the peace offering. (Lev_3:1-17)
67. The Law of the grain offering. (Lev_2:1-16)
68. If the congregation sins ignorantly, a sin offering must be brought. (Lev_4:13-21)
69. If a person sins ignorantly, a sin offering must be brought when he learns of his sin. (Lev_4:27-35)
70. If a person is in doubt as to whether he has sinned in regard to any of the holy things, a suspensive guilt offering must be brought. (Lev_5:15-19)
71. A sin offering must be brought for stealing, swearing falsely, and sins of a like nature. (Lev_6:1-7)
72. The sin offering must be according to one's means. (Lev_5:7-13)
73. We must confess our sins to Yahweh, repent for them, and be converted to the keeping of Yahweh's Laws. (Num_5:6-7)
74. A man who has an abnormal discharge (zab) must bring a sacrifice. (Lev_15:13-15)
75. A woman who has an abnormal discharge (zabah) must bring a sacrifice. (Lev_15:28-30)
76. A woman must bring a sacrifice after childbirth. (Lev_12:6-8)
77. A leper must bring a sacrifice after he has been cleansed. (Lev_14:1-32)
78. The First Tithe is holy, and belongs to Yahweh. (Lev_27:30-33)
79. The firstborn of clean animals are holy and belong to Yahweh. (Exo_13:2)
80. The firstborn sons belong to Yahweh, but may be redeemed. (Exo_34:19-20)
81. The firstling of a donkey must be redeemed. (Exo_34:20)
82. If the firstling of a donkey is not redeemed, its neck must be broken. (Exo_13:13)
83. All tithes and offerings must be brought to the sanctuary of Yahweh. (Deu_12:5-6)
84. The sanctuary of Yahweh is the only place Yahweh has chosen to receive tithes, sacrifices, and offerings. (Deu_12:13-14; Deu_12:26)
85. The blood of the sacrifices must be poured out on the altar of Yahweh for our atonement. (Deu_12:27)
86. Sanctified animals which have become blemished must be redeemed. (Deu_15:19-22)
87. Any animal exchanged for an offering is also holy. (Lev_27:10; Lev_27:33)
88. The priests are to eat the meat of the consecrated offerings. (Exo_29:33)
89. The priests are to eat the remainder of the grain offering. (Lev_10:12-13)
90. Consecrated meat of an offering which becomes ritually unclean must be burned. (Lev_7:19)
91. Consecrated meat of an offering not eaten within its appointed time must be burned. (Lev_7:17)
Vows

92. A Nazirite must let his hair grow during the period of separation. (Num_6:5)

93. A Nazirite must shave his head and bring the sacrifice when the period of separation is over. (Num_6:13-18)

94. Vows and oaths to Yahweh must be kept. (Deuteronomy 23:2123)

95. The Law of binding and loosing a vow. (Num_30:2-16)

Would you like to see the rest of them Bill?

BillG · Dec 30, 2017

lightbearer said:

GOD; they can be found in the Bible.
The Law: All 613 Commandments!

(248 Positive Commandments and 365 Negative Commandments)

248 Positive Commandments
1. Believe in Yahweh as the Only Source of Power in the Universe. (Exo_20:2)
2. Submit to Yahweh as the Supreme Head, to be in unity with Yahweh. (Deu_6:4)
3. Love Yahweh with all your heart, soul, and might. (Deu_6:5)
4. Reverence Yahweh by Keeping His Laws. (Deu_6:12-13; Deu_6:25)
5. Serve Yahweh. (Exo_23:25)
6. Hold fast to Yahweh. (Deu_10:20)
7. Taking an oath by Yahweh's Name. (Deu_6:13)
8. Walk in Yahweh's ways. (Deu_28:9)
9. Sanctify Yahweh's Name. (Lev_22:32)
10. Read (study and meditate on) the Book of the Law. (Deu_6:7)
11. Teach the Book of the Law to our children. (Deu_6:7)
12. Bind the Law upon our hands. (Deu_6:8)
13. Bind (write) the Law upon our minds. (Deu_6:8)
14. Make tzitzit on the corners of the tallits. (Num_15:38-40)
15. Preach and publish Yahweh's Law. (Deu_6:9)
16. Gather for the reading of the Law every seventh year. (Deu_31:10-13)
17. A king must acquire and apply the Book of the Law. (Deu_17:18-20)
18. Acquire the Book of the Law. (Deu_31:19)
19. Be thankful to Yahweh in prayer, praise, and deed. (Deu_8:10)
The Temple and the Priests
20. Build the Holy sanctuary of Yahweh. (Exo_25:8-9)
21. We must reverence Yahweh in the sanctuary of Yahweh. (Lev_19:30)
22. Guard the sanctuary of Yahweh at all times. (Num_18:2; Num_18:4)
23. The priests and Levites shall do their appointed work in the sanctuary of Yahweh. (Num_18:23; Num_18:6-7)
24. The priests must wash their hands and feet. (Exo_30:17-21)
25. The priests must light the seven lamp lampstand. (Exo_27:20-21)
26. The priests must bless the people with the Name of Yahweh. (Num_6:23-27)
27. The priests must set the showbread and frankincense before the ark. (Exo_25:30)
28. The priests must burn the incense on the golden altar in the morning and between the evenings. (Exo_30:7-8)
29. The priests must keep the fire burning on the altar continuously. (Lev_6:12-13)
30. The priests must remove the ashes from the altar daily. (Lev_6:10-11)
31. The priests must keep the ritually unclean out of the inner court of the sanctuary of Yahweh. (Num_5:2-3)
32. The priests must be regarded as holy. (Lev_21:8)
33. The priests must dress in special priestly garments. (Exo_28:2-43)
34. The priests must bear the responsibility for the sanctuary of Yahweh. (Num_18:1; Num_18:5)
35. The priests must prepare the holy anointing oil according to its formula. (Exo_30:23-33)
36. The priests must perform their services at the sanctuary of Yahweh at the appointed time. (Deu_18:6-8)
37. The priests may become ritually unclean due to certain close relatives. (Lev_21:1-4)
38. The High Priest may marry only a virgin. (Lev_21:13-14)
Sacrifices
39. The continual burnt offering (Tamid sacrifice) must be offered twice daily. (Num_28:2-6)
40. The grain and drink offering must be offered twice daily. (Num_28:2-8)
41. An additional sacrifice must be offered every Sabbath. (Num_28:9-10)
42. An additional sacrifice must be offered on The New Moon. (Num_28:11-15)
43. An additional sacrifice must be offered every day of The Feast of Unleavened Bread (Passover). (Num_28:18-24)
44. The Omer offering of the first barley must also be brought on the first day of The Feast of Unleavened Bread (Passover) and must be waved by the priests on the second day of the Feast. (Lev_23:10-14)
45. An additional offering must be offered at The Feast of Weeks (Pentecost). (Num_28:26-30)
46. Two wave loaves of bread baked with salt must be offered on The Feast of Weeks (Pentecost). (Lev_23:17)
47. An additional sacrifice must be offered on The Feast of Trumpets. (Num_29:1-6)
48. An additional sacrifice must be offered on the Day of Atonement. (Num_29:7-8)
49. The Atonement Service must be performed on the Day of Atonement. (Lev_16:2-34)
50. An additional sacrifice must be offered every day of The Feast of Tabernacles. (Num_29:12-34)
51. An additional sacrifice must be offered on The Last Great Day. (Num_29:35-40)
52. Three times a year keep a Feast to Yahweh: at The Feast of Unleavened Bread, at The Feast of Weeks (Pentecost), and at The Feast of Tabernacles. (Exo_23:14-17)
53. The Feasts of Yahweh must be kept only at the Place Yahweh chooses, at the sanctuary of Yahweh. (Deu_12:5-7; Deu_12:14)
54. Every household must appear before Yahweh and rejoice at the Feasts. (Deu_16:14)
55. The Passover Lamb must be killed on the fourteenth day of Abib between the two evenings. (Num_28:16)
56. The Passover Lamb must be eaten on the night of the fifteenth of Abib.(Exo_12:8-11)
57. Those who are unclean from a dead body or away on a journey (stranded, detained, or imprisoned) must kill the Passover Lamb in the Second Moon. (Num_9:10-11)
58. The Passover in the Second Moon must be held according to all its ordinances. (Num_9:11-12)
59. The silver trumpets must be sounded at Feast times, New Moons, and also in times of tribulation, to call the congregation together. (Num_10:2; Num_10:9-10)
60. All animals to be sacrificed must be at least eight days old. (Lev_22:27)
61. All animals to be sacrificed must be without blemish. (Lev_22:21)
62. All offerings must be salted. (Lev_2:13)
63. The Law of the burnt offering. (Lev_1:2-17)
64. The Law of the sin offering. (Lev_6:25-30)
65. The Law of the trespass offering. (Lev_7:1-2; Lev_7:7)
66. The Law of the peace offering. (Lev_3:1-17)
67. The Law of the grain offering. (Lev_2:1-16)
68. If the congregation sins ignorantly, a sin offering must be brought. (Lev_4:13-21)
69. If a person sins ignorantly, a sin offering must be brought when he learns of his sin. (Lev_4:27-35)
70. If a person is in doubt as to whether he has sinned in regard to any of the holy things, a suspensive guilt offering must be brought. (Lev_5:15-19)
71. A sin offering must be brought for stealing, swearing falsely, and sins of a like nature. (Lev_6:1-7)
72. The sin offering must be according to one's means. (Lev_5:7-13)
73. We must confess our sins to Yahweh, repent for them, and be converted to the keeping of Yahweh's Laws. (Num_5:6-7)
74. A man who has an abnormal discharge (zab) must bring a sacrifice. (Lev_15:13-15)
75. A woman who has an abnormal discharge (zabah) must bring a sacrifice. (Lev_15:28-30)
76. A woman must bring a sacrifice after childbirth. (Lev_12:6-8)
77. A leper must bring a sacrifice after he has been cleansed. (Lev_14:1-32)
78. The First Tithe is holy, and belongs to Yahweh. (Lev_27:30-33)
79. The firstborn of clean animals are holy and belong to Yahweh. (Exo_13:2)
80. The firstborn sons belong to Yahweh, but may be redeemed. (Exo_34:19-20)
81. The firstling of a donkey must be redeemed. (Exo_34:20)
82. If the firstling of a donkey is not redeemed, its neck must be broken. (Exo_13:13)
83. All tithes and offerings must be brought to the sanctuary of Yahweh. (Deu_12:5-6)
84. The sanctuary of Yahweh is the only place Yahweh has chosen to receive tithes, sacrifices, and offerings. (Deu_12:13-14; Deu_12:26)
85. The blood of the sacrifices must be poured out on the altar of Yahweh for our atonement. (Deu_12:27)
86. Sanctified animals which have become blemished must be redeemed. (Deu_15:19-22)
87. Any animal exchanged for an offering is also holy. (Lev_27:10; Lev_27:33)
88. The priests are to eat the meat of the consecrated offerings. (Exo_29:33)
89. The priests are to eat the remainder of the grain offering. (Lev_10:12-13)
90. Consecrated meat of an offering which becomes ritually unclean must be burned. (Lev_7:19)
91. Consecrated meat of an offering not eaten within its appointed time must be burned. (Lev_7:17)
Vows

92. A Nazirite must let his hair grow during the period of separation. (Num_6:5)

93. A Nazirite must shave his head and bring the sacrifice when the period of separation is over. (Num_6:13-18)

94. Vows and oaths to Yahweh must be kept. (Deuteronomy 23:2123)

95. The Law of binding and loosing a vow. (Num_30:2-16)

Would you like to see the rest of them Bill?

Not really.

I know of 248 and 365.

Although I'm not sure you got my question.

Who gave the 613?

It was my response to Studyman.

Post 271. Did you read it?

Marcelo · Dec 30, 2017

Brothers and sisters, I just found an interesting article about the differences between the Gospels and the Pauline Epistles:

[h=1]Jesus vs. Paul[/h][FONT=&quot]IntroductionControversy has arisen regarding Jesus versus Paul as scholars debate the different emphases and messages of Jesus and Paul.1 Jesus preached the kingdom of heaven. Paul did not. Paul preached justification by faith alone. Jesus did not. What are we to make of this? Can the two be reconciled? The answer depends on what is meant by reconciliation.Let us be clear from the outset. The messages of Jesus and Paul were fundamentally different. Reconciliation of their messages cannot be done by harmonization. This is a fact we must accept. No one is helped by attempts to lessen the differences by declaring that the gospel is a salvation story for both Jesus and Paul. The differences remain. No benefit comes from theological gibberish that the gospel is the kingdom and the kingdom is the gospel. No light comes from attempts to show that Paul “betrayed” Jesus or “perverted” His message. No benefit comes from those who maintain Jesus and Paul contradicted or disagreed with one another. Such offerings of strange fire move us further from the text and sound theology. Instead, we must seek a biblical understanding of the Scriptures for reconciliation.Good News, Bad NewsThe good news is that this matter is receiving attention. For almost 2,000 years, Paul has been forced into the gospels and the gospels have been forced into Paul–and this continues. Some theologians have recognized problems in this but most fail to provide sound, biblical solutions to resolve the differences between Jesus and Paul. The bad news is that most theological professionals misunderstand why we find differences between Jesus and Paul. Because of this, they lack a sound foundation to reconcile the differences. Here’s a clue: let the reader consider why God kept Paul separated from the Twelve after his conversion and why Paul’s contact with the Twelve was extremely limited (cf. Galatians 1.1, 11-12, 15-19). The purpose of this brief study is to answer the question about how Jesus and Paul can be reconciled (what that means) and end the confusion.The Messages of Jesus and PaulThe below chart identifies the chief differences in the ministries and message of Jesus and Paul. Each will be analyzed.[TABLE="width: 0"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2, align: center"]Differences of the Ministries of Jesus and Paul[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: center"]Jesus:[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Paul:[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1. Preached the gospel of the kingdom[/TD]
[TD]1. Preached the gospel of the grace of God[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2. Defined the “kingdom of heaven” as Israel’s prophetic earthly kingdom[/TD]
[TD]2. Defined the “kingdom of heaven” as the heavenly position of the body of Christ[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3. Presented Himself as Messiah and King of the Jews (Israel)[/TD]
[TD]3. Presented Jesus as the risen Lord, Head of the Church, the body of Christ[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4. Preached repentance, water baptism, and faith as necessary for salvation[/TD]
[TD]4. Preached faith alone as necessary for salvation[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5. Had Jews only for His audience (2 exceptions)[/TD]
[TD]5. Had Gentiles as his primary audience[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6. Operated under the Mosaic Law[/TD]
[TD]6. Operated under grace[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
1. Jesus’ Gospel, Paul’s Gospel2JesusJohn the Baptist, Jesus, and the Twelve preached the gospel of the kingdom (Matthew 3.2, 4.17). This gospel was the long-anticipated and prophesied good news that the King of Israel had arrived. He would establish His kingdom on earth and rule the earth according to what Israel’s prophets foretold (Psalm 2.6, 8; Zechariah 14.9; Luke 1.31-33). Its focus was Jewish (Matthew 10.5-6) and Jesus instructed His disciples to pray for it (Matthew 6.10). During this kingdom reign, God would fulfill His covenant promises to Israel. Through Israel’s acceptance of their Messiah, Gentiles would also be blessed. Apart from this kingdom and apart from this plan, God had revealed no provision to bless Gentiles. Beginning with God’s covenant with Abraham (Genesis 12.1-3), all Gentile blessing had to come through Israel.The prophets had proclaimed this Messianic kingdom in hundreds of passages. Every Jew knew about this kingdom and every God-fearing Jew longed for it. One need only read the passages surrounding the account of Jesus’ birth to recognize this fact. The reader is encouraged to read the accounts surrounding the Magi (Matthew 2.1-12), Zacharias (Luke 1.8-17, 67-79), Mary (Luke 1.26-38, 46-55), Simeon, and Anna (Luke 2.25-38). Their statements provide an excellent summary of Jewish expectation and theology.The gospel of the kingdom proclaimed by John the Baptist, Jesus, and the Twelve required repentance (Mark 1.15), water baptism (Matthew 3.6; Acts 2.38, 8.34-38, 19.4), and belief Jesus was the promised Messiah (Matthew 16.13-16; John 11.25-27). Believing in Jesus according to the gospel of the kingdom meant believing Who He was, i.e., believing in His name (cf. John 3.18; Acts 2.21, 38, 3.6, 16, 4.7, 10, 12, 17, 18, 30, 5.28, 40, 41, 8.12, 16, 9.14, 15, 21, 27, 10.43, 48). The gospel of the kingdom focused upon the identity of Christ.PaulPaul preached the gospel of the grace of God (Acts 20.24; 1 Corinthians 15.1-4) and placed little emphasis on repentance or baptism in his evangelistic ministry. He only mentioned repentance in reference to unbelievers once in his letters (Romans 2.4) and with regard to water baptism, he declared, “Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel” (1 Corinthians 1.14-17). Later, he wrote there was only one baptism (Ephesians 4.5). Since Paul obviously meant the one baptism was baptism by the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12.13), we must conclude water baptism ceased during Paul’s ministry and has no Scriptural support as a Christian practice today.The focus of belief in the ministry of John the Baptist, Jesus, and the Twelve was that Jesus was the promised Messiah, the Son of God (Matthew 16.13-16; John 11.25-27). Paul preached the gospel of the kingdom immediately following his conversion (Acts 9.19-22). However, shortly afterwards, the ascended, glorified, heavenly (as opposed to earthly His earthly ministry) Lord gave Paul a new gospel (Galatians 1.11-12). Paul’s gospel (Romans 2.16, 16.25), was different from the gospel of Jesus and the Twelve. Its focus was not upon the identity of Christ but upon the work of Christ. Paul’s gospel was that Christ died for our sins and rose from the dead (1 Corinthians 15.1-4). This gospel was not preached during Jesus’ earthly ministry or by the Twelve.Paul referred to the gospel of the grace of God as “my gospel” (Romans 2.16, 16.25; 2 Timothy 2.8; Galatians 2.2). This indicated it was different from the gospel Jesus or the Twelve preached. Luke’s account of the Council of Jerusalem made it clear that the apostles did not agree with or understand Paul’s gospel (Acts 15). Paul revealed his gospel was a “secret” (μυστήριον, cf. Romans 16.25; Ephesians 6.19). The Twelve had no understanding Jesus would die and rise from the dead (Luke 18.31-34; John 20.3-10). For them, Christ’s death was not good news. Even after Jesus’ resurrection Christ’s death was not proclaimed as good news. The biblical record is Peter proclaimed Christ’s death as bad news. Peter’s sermons demonstrated he regarded the death of Christ as a message of condemnation to Jews–a heinous act that demanded repentance (Acts 2.22-42, 3.12-26). Peter proclaimed the fact of Jesus’ resurrection as good news. But its significance was that Jesus could still bring about His kingdom on earth if the Jewish nation repented. He did not preach the death and resurrection of Christ for personal salvation.For Paul, the preaching of the cross was salvation (1 Corinthians 1.18, 23, 15.1-4) and was glorious (1 Timothy 1.11). Paul’s gospel created so much friction that the apostles in Jerusalem called a special council around 51 A.D. to consider it. The reader should understand Paul was probably saved around 34-37 A.D. So a range of time of 14-17 years had passed before the Council at Jerusalem met. That was a long time. At the Council, after considerable argument, Peter made an astonishing (from a Jewish perspective) statement. Prior to Peter’s statement, the message of the Twelve was that Gentiles could be saved only the way Jews were saved. But after great argument, Peter, under the power of the Holy Spirit, officially recognized (in light of Paul’s revelations and ministry) Jews now had to be saved as Gentiles (Acts 15.6-11). This was a watershed moment. After Peter made this declaration, Paul wrote the Galatians that any who proclaimed a gospel different from his was to be accursed (Galatians 1.8-9). Paul could not have written this prior to the Council of Jerusalem. Prior to Peter’s statement, the Twelve legitimately preached the gospel Christ had revealed to them in His earthly ministry. During this same period Paul preached the gospel the heavenly Christ had revealed to him. Both were valid gospel messages; both had been commanded by the Lord. However, after the Council of Jerusalem, only Paul’s gospel of grace was valid. The gospel of the kingdom preached by the Twelve was formally supplanted by Paul’s gospel. Paul’s gospel of grace focused upon the work of Christ, rather than upon the identity of Christ, the focus of the gospel of the kingdom.

To read the whole article: Jesus vs. Paul – doctrine.org[/FONT]

Ahwatukee · Dec 30, 2017

Studyman said:

Anyone who is claiming to be in Christ, but is willfully living according to the sinful nature will be judged by their works of the flesh, i.e. they will be held accountable for their sins. That is what the books are that are opened at the great white throne judgment. One can say that he is in Christ all they want, but if they are willfully living according to the sinful nature, they are not living in faith. Those who are truly in Christ are sinners, but are wrestling against their sinful nature to bring it under control and are being sanctified through the Holy Spirit. They are in agreement with God that they are sinners and have a repentant heart. Those who are claiming to be in Christ, but are willfully living after the flesh are claiming one thing but living another. Below is the resurrection of the unrighteous dead:

"Then I saw a great white throne and the One who sat on it. The earth and the heavens fled from His presence, and no place was found for them.

And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne.And there were open books, and one of them was the book of life. And the dead were judged according to their deeds, as recorded in the books. The sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead, and each one was judged according to his deeds.

Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death—the lake of fire. 15And if anyone was found whose name was not written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

The judgment above will include all of the unrighteous throughout all history.

Hizikyah · Dec 30, 2017

Marcelo said:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd (4166 – poimén)."

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 5:39, “You search the Scriptures, because you think you possess everlasting life in them. And these are the ones that bear witness of Me.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:26, “But the Comforter; the Holy Spirit which YHWH will send in My Name will teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I (Yahshua/Jesus) have said to you.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 6:63, “It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The words (Instructions) that I (Yahshua/Jesus) speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting.” [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 14:23-24, “[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”[/FONT]

Why do so many people think Paul was a false apostle?

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