Which gospel?
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It's almost as though you did not read what I wrote (nor examine the Scriptures I provided to support what I was presenting).
Isaiah 24:21-22 -
21 On that day [footnotes: s - Isa27:12] the LORD will punish
the host of heaven above [/on high]
and kings of the earth below [/on the earth]. [TDW: see Rev19:19,21 SLAIN/KILLED/16:14-16/20:5 i.e. @ His 2nd Coming to the earth]
22 They will be gathered together
like prisoners in a pit. [footnotes: t - Rev20:1-3]
They will be confined to a dungeon; [footnotes: u - Rev20:2]
and after many days they will be punished.
[TDW: in amill-teaching, there ARE NO MORE "DAYS" following Christ's 2nd Coming (to the earth; the context of the previous v.21 ^ )! But this passage says THERE ARE! And MANY of them (literal "days," here)! Who will you agree with?? And Zechariah 14's "IN THAT DAY" (repeated phrase) is also described (in v.8) as, "IN SUMMER AND IN WINTER shall it be," and in v.16 describing "from year to year [to do such as such]". And that is just the tip of the iceberg... (in past posts I've listed numerous verses on that same issue)]
Isaiah 24:21-22 -
21 On that day [footnotes: s - Isa27:12] the LORD will punish
the host of heaven above [/on high]
and kings of the earth below [/on the earth]. [TDW: see Rev19:19,21 SLAIN/KILLED/16:14-16/20:5 i.e. @ His 2nd Coming to the earth]
22 They will be gathered together
like prisoners in a pit. [footnotes: t - Rev20:1-3]
They will be confined to a dungeon; [footnotes: u - Rev20:2]
and after many days they will be punished.
[TDW: in amill-teaching, there ARE NO MORE "DAYS" following Christ's 2nd Coming (to the earth; the context of the previous v.21 ^ )! But this passage says THERE ARE! And MANY of them (literal "days," here)! Who will you agree with?? And Zechariah 14's "IN THAT DAY" (repeated phrase) is also described (in v.8) as, "IN SUMMER AND IN WINTER shall it be," and in v.16 describing "from year to year [to do such as such]". And that is just the tip of the iceberg... (in past posts I've listed numerous verses on that same issue)]
That's not what the passage states; not what the verse spells out.
Instead, it says, "some shall depart from THE faith"
That is not [personal] "faith" that one places in Christ for salvation.
"THE faith" is "that body of truth" (as found in the NT, vitally including "His resurrection" [1Cor15:1-4] and that which was "delivered" [that is, following His death/burial/resurrection]; [heb9:16-17?])
So, just like I was pointing out about the "lukewarm" in Rev3:16 are NOT SAVED (NEVER WERE SAVED), though they "come in His name," they are not vitally connected with Christ (by means of faith in Christ and His finished work, alone, for salvation); they are part of "the churchES," but are not SAVED, and thus for sure not a part of (and never have been) "the Church which is His body" (made up of ONLY believers/saints/the saved). "Departing from THE faith" does not require one to have been saved (be a "saved" person), it just requires one to do something like disregard the VITAL TRUTH of "His resurrection" and get to thinking one can say: "HAVEN'T *WE* DONE MANY WONDERFUL WORKS?!" (Matt7)
Instead, it says, "some shall depart from THE faith"
That is not [personal] "faith" that one places in Christ for salvation.
"THE faith" is "that body of truth" (as found in the NT, vitally including "His resurrection" [1Cor15:1-4] and that which was "delivered" [that is, following His death/burial/resurrection]; [heb9:16-17?])
So, just like I was pointing out about the "lukewarm" in Rev3:16 are NOT SAVED (NEVER WERE SAVED), though they "come in His name," they are not vitally connected with Christ (by means of faith in Christ and His finished work, alone, for salvation); they are part of "the churchES," but are not SAVED, and thus for sure not a part of (and never have been) "the Church which is His body" (made up of ONLY believers/saints/the saved). "Departing from THE faith" does not require one to have been saved (be a "saved" person), it just requires one to do something like disregard the VITAL TRUTH of "His resurrection" and get to thinking one can say: "HAVEN'T *WE* DONE MANY WONDERFUL WORKS?!" (Matt7)
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That's great you don't see the debt for sin payment in that verse. Nor should you, or anyone, for that matter.
Because it's not there!
If you, or anyone else, never get here?:
Hebrews 6:1
Therefore leaving (MOVING BEYOND) the principles of the doctrine of Christ, (Here is your "debt for sin" payment)
let us GO ON unto perfection; (Spiritual Maturity...A term you refer to as "sinless perfection")
not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, (never going unto the Father, baring your own cross, even having been confessed to Him by Christ; MANY TIMES! God, TIRES of "no shows."....to the point of DELUSION)
AND of faith TOWARD God,
You will NEVER understand 1 Peter 2:5
(I think EG has me on ignore again. But, he is correct! IT IS ABOUT SELF!)
For how can anyone teach anyone about becoming spiritually mature, when the teachers themselves are in "stony ground?"
Ezekiel 13
20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
21 Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver my people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:
23 Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver my people out of your hand: and ye shall know (hopefully) that I am the Lord.
Because it's not there!
If you, or anyone else, never get here?:
Hebrews 6:1
Therefore leaving (MOVING BEYOND) the principles of the doctrine of Christ, (Here is your "debt for sin" payment)
let us GO ON unto perfection; (Spiritual Maturity...A term you refer to as "sinless perfection")
not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, (never going unto the Father, baring your own cross, even having been confessed to Him by Christ; MANY TIMES! God, TIRES of "no shows."....to the point of DELUSION)
AND of faith TOWARD God,
You will NEVER understand 1 Peter 2:5
(I think EG has me on ignore again. But, he is correct! IT IS ABOUT SELF!)
For how can anyone teach anyone about becoming spiritually mature, when the teachers themselves are in "stony ground?"
Ezekiel 13
20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
21 Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver my people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:
23 Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver my people out of your hand: and ye shall know (hopefully) that I am the Lord.
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That's great you don't see the debt for sin payment in that verse. Nor should you, or anyone, for that matter.
Because it's not there!
If you, or anyone else, never get here?:
Hebrews 6:1
Therefore leaving (MOVING BEYOND) the principles of the doctrine of Christ, (Here is your "debt for sin" payment)
let us GO ON unto perfection; (Spiritual Maturity...A term you refer to as "sinless perfection")
not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, (never going unto the Father, baring your own cross, even having been confessed to Him by Christ; MANY TIMES! God, TIRES of "no shows."....to the point of DELUSION)
AND of faith TOWARD God,
You will NEVER understand 1 Peter 2:5
(I think EG has me on ignore again. But, he is correct! IT IS ABOUT SELF!)
For how can anyone teach anyone about becoming spiritually mature, when the teachers themselves are in "stony ground?"
Ezekiel 13
20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
21 Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver my people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:
23 Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver my people out of your hand: and ye shall know (hopefully) that I am the Lord.
Because it's not there!
If you, or anyone else, never get here?:
Hebrews 6:1
Therefore leaving (MOVING BEYOND) the principles of the doctrine of Christ, (Here is your "debt for sin" payment)
let us GO ON unto perfection; (Spiritual Maturity...A term you refer to as "sinless perfection")
not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, (never going unto the Father, baring your own cross, even having been confessed to Him by Christ; MANY TIMES! God, TIRES of "no shows."....to the point of DELUSION)
AND of faith TOWARD God,
You will NEVER understand 1 Peter 2:5
(I think EG has me on ignore again. But, he is correct! IT IS ABOUT SELF!)
For how can anyone teach anyone about becoming spiritually mature, when the teachers themselves are in "stony ground?"
Ezekiel 13
20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
21 Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver my people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:
23 Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver my people out of your hand: and ye shall know (hopefully) that I am the Lord.
You've set up a rather large strawman here friend.
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Careful PennEd, your flesh is showing and everyone can see it. You are proving my point and your own error. Do you say naughty words too? What else is going on that He can save you from?
I know a Gospel by which ungodliness can be removed from within you and you can come in to a life where the Spirit of God is in control, as it is written, and you can live and move in Him, hearing His voice and no longer have to live from under the sun, under the sun - vanity of vanities, vanity of vanities. The chains can be broken and you can soar on wings as an eagle!! Praise the Lord Jesus Christ!
I know a Gospel by which ungodliness can be removed from within you and you can come in to a life where the Spirit of God is in control, as it is written, and you can live and move in Him, hearing His voice and no longer have to live from under the sun, under the sun - vanity of vanities, vanity of vanities. The chains can be broken and you can soar on wings as an eagle!! Praise the Lord Jesus Christ!
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As a matter of factly? You have!
In your', and others "mocking and scoffing", trying to "instill control" (by intimidation) concerning how fast, and where one, or even IF one should mature? Unless, of course, "one does it OUR way!"
Alive in love? But spiritual "milky's!"
But? This is the the "way" "no works for salvation" (maturity not required, nor recomended) propaganda rolls!
Ain't it?
This is "why" when spiritually mature people display thoughts, feelings, posts, and testimonies?
How come it always "sounds like Greek?"
Y'all act like y'all got "the corner on the salvation/spiritually mature" market."
But, ya don't!
In your', and others "mocking and scoffing", trying to "instill control" (by intimidation) concerning how fast, and where one, or even IF one should mature? Unless, of course, "one does it OUR way!"
Alive in love? But spiritual "milky's!"
But? This is the the "way" "no works for salvation" (maturity not required, nor recomended) propaganda rolls!
Ain't it?
This is "why" when spiritually mature people display thoughts, feelings, posts, and testimonies?
How come it always "sounds like Greek?"
Y'all act like y'all got "the corner on the salvation/spiritually mature" market."
But, ya don't!
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As a matter of factly? You have!
In your', and others "mocking and scoffing", trying to "instill control" (by intimidation) concerning how fast, and where one, or even IF one should mature? Unless, of course, "one does it OUR way!"
Alive in love? But spiritual "milky's!"
But? This is the the "way" "no works for salvation" (maturity not required, nor recomended) propaganda rolls!
Ain't it?
This is "why" when spiritually mature people display thoughts, feelings, posts, and testimonies?
How come it always "sounds like Greek?"
Y'all act like y'all got "the corner on the salvation/spiritually mature" market."
But, ya don't!
In your', and others "mocking and scoffing", trying to "instill control" (by intimidation) concerning how fast, and where one, or even IF one should mature? Unless, of course, "one does it OUR way!"
Alive in love? But spiritual "milky's!"
But? This is the the "way" "no works for salvation" (maturity not required, nor recomended) propaganda rolls!
Ain't it?
This is "why" when spiritually mature people display thoughts, feelings, posts, and testimonies?
How come it always "sounds like Greek?"
Y'all act like y'all got "the corner on the salvation/spiritually mature" market."
But, ya don't!
Please try again. Thanks!
Romans 12
3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
4 For as we have many members in one body, AND ALL MEMBERS HAVE NOT THE SAME OFFICE.
3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
4 For as we have many members in one body, AND ALL MEMBERS HAVE NOT THE SAME OFFICE.
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You prove my point beautifully. Thank you, and thank you for causing me to be blessed. Know why I couldn't do what you just did? Because Jesus saved me and changed my life. According to Jesus' own words, you are in danger of the fire of Hell.
I'm not your son nor inferior to you in any way, shape or form - I wouldn't speak condescendingly if I were you. Nor would I speak against the Holy Spirit. There is no fear of God before your eyes. Good trees don't bear that kind of fruit, white washed wall.
You are a prime example of why the world thinks the church in this country is phony and just a bunch of hypocrites. They know that we are to be holy. Yet they behold so many clowns who practice the acts of the flesh while claiming they will inherit the Kingdom of God, which the Word of God says they will not. They must crucify it.
You can't deal with the things I've said and your defense is to mock to your shame. I hope some day you will have a pure heart, so that you can see God, and that you come to no longer do your own will. I hope some day you will be born again instead of pretending. Your blood is not on my hands, thankfully. God have mercy.
I'm not your son nor inferior to you in any way, shape or form - I wouldn't speak condescendingly if I were you. Nor would I speak against the Holy Spirit. There is no fear of God before your eyes. Good trees don't bear that kind of fruit, white washed wall.
You are a prime example of why the world thinks the church in this country is phony and just a bunch of hypocrites. They know that we are to be holy. Yet they behold so many clowns who practice the acts of the flesh while claiming they will inherit the Kingdom of God, which the Word of God says they will not. They must crucify it.
You can't deal with the things I've said and your defense is to mock to your shame. I hope some day you will have a pure heart, so that you can see God, and that you come to no longer do your own will. I hope some day you will be born again instead of pretending. Your blood is not on my hands, thankfully. God have mercy.
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Naw man, garee, we talked about this.
That is not what the text STATES when it speaks of "JESUS HIMSELF [HIS OWN PERSON]"; but instead states "Behold, I come AS A THIEF. [PERIOD!]" (Armageddon-timing; aka "His Second Coming to the earth" aspect of the "CHRONOLOGY"; Rev16:15-16)
When the words "IN THE NIGHT" are added to this phrase (thus saying "shall so come as a thief IN THE NIGHT"), THAT is speaking of the arrival of the TIME-PERIOD which will PRECEDE His-OWN-Arrival/2nd-Coming-to-the-earth, and which TIME-PERIOD (preceding His "RETURN" to the earth) commences when He will "STAND to JUDGE" (Isa3:13; Rev5:6 [Lam2:3-4 parallel the wording of 2Th2:7b-8a]) at the START of the 7-yr trib (while He is STILL IN HEAVEN opening SEAL #1 aka the INITIAL birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3, Matt24:4/Mk13:5 "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE' (i.e. A CERTAIN ONE bringing DECEPTION; aka the "whose COMING" [2Th2:9a (Dan9:27a[26])] of the "man of sin" IN HIS TIME, the "IN THE NIGHT"/DARK/DARKNESS time-period, which will unfold upon the earth over time, and consist of MANY MORE "birth PANGS [PLURAL]" that will FOLLOW ON from that INITIAL birth PANG [SINGULAR]!)
If you will keep these two distinct things "defined" as they properly are spelled out to be, then you will begin to grasp the "CHRONOLOGY" issues.
A "TIME-PERIOD [arrival of]" is NOT the same thing as "HIS PERSON [arrival of]"!
Don't "ADD" the words where they are NOT FOUND in the actual TEXT. This becomes PROBLEMATIC and blurs two entirely distinct issues into one big mish-mash of MUSH that only serves up "confusion" (if one were to actually trace everything out to its conclusion, by doing so... many ppl just don't! and tend to simply REPEAT an INCORRECT PHRASE either because THEY HEARD SOME DUDE say it, or because of being careless with the text themselves, in their own study of this. Don't do dat )
____________
Moving on to another passage oft misinterpreted/misapplied... I made some posts some time back, regarding 2 Corinthians 13:5 :
[quoting various posts I've made on that]
2 Corinthians 10-13 (at least that entire section [and really the entire epistle]) is in the context of Paul vindicating his apostleship.
In the passage you refer to [2Cor13:5], he is saying, "don't simply test me [and judge me as a non-apostle as compared to the high-talkin' impressive guys you're tempted to "follow" instead], test your own selves and see whether you are in THE FAITH... because if you are [and you know you are (note: he *knows* this is their internal response, and is using this as part of his argument/defense/reasoning to the point)], then I, who imparted these truths to you, am indeed a genuine apostle... even though you are inclined to think otherwise [coz I'm somewhat of a weak speaker, so to speak, and not much to look at (2Cor10:1,7a, esp.v.10, etc)]."
The passage has nothing to do with some certain-level-standard of "good works" they were to discover, and test themselves against, in order to tell whether or not they were "still saved," or "on the verge of losing it," or "part-way gone, and 1/4 of the way-to-go, gone," or maybe "90%-still-ON-TARGET-but-with-A-LITTLE-MORE-EFFORT-can-get-probably-still-make-it!," etc.
"Looking [away and only] unto Jesus the author and finisher of THE FAITH" Hebrews 12:2; and, "Christ in you, the [sure] hope of glory" Colossians 1:27. ["THE faith" = "that body of truth" as found in the NT which includes the VITAL ASPECT of "His Resurrection"!]
[and]
They are questioning Paul's apostleship, and he is responding with the "proof of it"... THEM (the-saved/Christ-in-them... unless they are willing to say He's not in them). He's saying, don't merely test me (my apostleship, or lack thereof), test THE PROOF of it! --->YOU, YOURSELVES! (are the proof!!)
THIS is the context / setting of the words in v.5.
[end quoting those posts]
That is not what the text STATES when it speaks of "JESUS HIMSELF [HIS OWN PERSON]"; but instead states "Behold, I come AS A THIEF. [PERIOD!]" (Armageddon-timing; aka "His Second Coming to the earth" aspect of the "CHRONOLOGY"; Rev16:15-16)
When the words "IN THE NIGHT" are added to this phrase (thus saying "shall so come as a thief IN THE NIGHT"), THAT is speaking of the arrival of the TIME-PERIOD which will PRECEDE His-OWN-Arrival/2nd-Coming-to-the-earth, and which TIME-PERIOD (preceding His "RETURN" to the earth) commences when He will "STAND to JUDGE" (Isa3:13; Rev5:6 [Lam2:3-4 parallel the wording of 2Th2:7b-8a]) at the START of the 7-yr trib (while He is STILL IN HEAVEN opening SEAL #1 aka the INITIAL birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3, Matt24:4/Mk13:5 "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE' (i.e. A CERTAIN ONE bringing DECEPTION; aka the "whose COMING" [2Th2:9a (Dan9:27a[26])] of the "man of sin" IN HIS TIME, the "IN THE NIGHT"/DARK/DARKNESS time-period, which will unfold upon the earth over time, and consist of MANY MORE "birth PANGS [PLURAL]" that will FOLLOW ON from that INITIAL birth PANG [SINGULAR]!)
If you will keep these two distinct things "defined" as they properly are spelled out to be, then you will begin to grasp the "CHRONOLOGY" issues.
A "TIME-PERIOD [arrival of]" is NOT the same thing as "HIS PERSON [arrival of]"!
Don't "ADD" the words where they are NOT FOUND in the actual TEXT. This becomes PROBLEMATIC and blurs two entirely distinct issues into one big mish-mash of MUSH that only serves up "confusion" (if one were to actually trace everything out to its conclusion, by doing so... many ppl just don't! and tend to simply REPEAT an INCORRECT PHRASE either because THEY HEARD SOME DUDE say it, or because of being careless with the text themselves, in their own study of this. Don't do dat
)____________
Moving on to another passage oft misinterpreted/misapplied... I made some posts some time back, regarding 2 Corinthians 13:5 :
[quoting various posts I've made on that]
2 Corinthians 10-13 (at least that entire section [and really the entire epistle]) is in the context of Paul vindicating his apostleship.
In the passage you refer to [2Cor13:5], he is saying, "don't simply test me [and judge me as a non-apostle as compared to the high-talkin' impressive guys you're tempted to "follow" instead], test your own selves and see whether you are in THE FAITH... because if you are [and you know you are (note: he *knows* this is their internal response, and is using this as part of his argument/defense/reasoning to the point)], then I, who imparted these truths to you, am indeed a genuine apostle... even though you are inclined to think otherwise [coz I'm somewhat of a weak speaker, so to speak, and not much to look at (2Cor10:1,7a, esp.v.10, etc)]."
The passage has nothing to do with some certain-level-standard of "good works" they were to discover, and test themselves against, in order to tell whether or not they were "still saved," or "on the verge of losing it," or "part-way gone, and 1/4 of the way-to-go, gone," or maybe "90%-still-ON-TARGET-but-with-A-LITTLE-MORE-EFFORT-can-get-probably-still-make-it!," etc.
"Looking [away and only] unto Jesus the author and finisher of THE FAITH" Hebrews 12:2; and, "Christ in you, the [sure] hope of glory" Colossians 1:27. ["THE faith" = "that body of truth" as found in the NT which includes the VITAL ASPECT of "His Resurrection"!]
[and]
They are questioning Paul's apostleship, and he is responding with the "proof of it"... THEM (the-saved/Christ-in-them... unless they are willing to say He's not in them). He's saying, don't merely test me (my apostleship, or lack thereof), test THE PROOF of it! --->YOU, YOURSELVES! (are the proof!!)
THIS is the context / setting of the words in v.5.
[end quoting those posts]
E
This is funny
sorry bro, your gospel has no power, it can’t even explain Col 2 or refute 100 points which prove your gospel is in error.
listen to PennEd, he not only has a gospel that saves from the penalty of death, but changes a person from the inside out, his gospel makes you into a new creation, one in which sin is like poison, you do not eat poison very much without getting sick, that why a child of god born of god no longer lives in sin, because he is changed
or chose to remain in your gospel, which is no gospel at all. It does not even believe is powerful enough to change his own children and keep them from falling, not because they do not have free will, but because God is so great!
sorry bro, your gospel has no power, it can’t even explain Col 2 or refute 100 points which prove your gospel is in error.
listen to PennEd, he not only has a gospel that saves from the penalty of death, but changes a person from the inside out, his gospel makes you into a new creation, one in which sin is like poison, you do not eat poison very much without getting sick, that why a child of god born of god no longer lives in sin, because he is changed
or chose to remain in your gospel, which is no gospel at all. It does not even believe is powerful enough to change his own children and keep them from falling, not because they do not have free will, but because God is so great!
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